[ANN] Bancor | Protocol for Smart-tokens, solving the liquidity problem

[peschi]

Watching and waiting for ICO.

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[whale123]

I think the ICO terms could be much better if devs do the following:
- let people invest with various ERC20 tokens - they can be used for token changers later anyway
- change the hard cap to 100 million (if you don't expect to raise 100 million anyway, why setting it to 250 million)

[idontcare]

It's a scam, stay away!!!! They have announced a price of 100 bancor / 1 eth ($2.47 @current rate) AND NO CAP. Apparently they have a "hidden" cap that they will stop at, letting us know when 80% is hit, but not displaying how much they have raised. This isn't an ICO it's a get rich fast scam by the bancor team. Galia said she doesn't want investors to make money and doesnt' want volatility..  Disgusting attitude and a huge let down. The investors will be lucky to get 50% of their investment back when it hits the markets. This isn't what an ICO is meant to be, as in a win-win scenario where the investors get ROI and the projects gets funding.


I was removed from the telegram group after Galia couldn't respond to my questions. This whole thing is set up so investors don't make any money and the bancor team are happy with it. Galia said it herself.

I see that on slack Eyal pasted a more refined version of the crap:

"1. The most critical thing for us is to make sure that those who took the time to research and understand Bancor prior to the fundraiser will be able to participate. This is the reason behind the 1h minimum time.

2. This is not a fundraiser for quick-flip investors wanting to get in and make a quick profit. That is not the goal of the protocol, the foundation, the team, the product or the project.

3. A large fundraiser will mean a large reserve (more liquidity, less volatility) and more resources to make Bancor a success, which we have detailed plans to implement. More bounties, more community grants, more explanatory events, etc. We believe this is in the best interest of the contributors and the project, and we are the right team to execute this vision. For those looking to hold their tokens, which are the kind of contributors we are optimizing for, this seems to us the best configuration and we are doing careful planning for the spectrum of outcomes.

4. Re Bitcoin suisse, we created this option for those who wanted additional assistance or additional currencies with which to fund. As the terms structure was being delayed, we heard from many that they wanted to contribute no matter what, and were eager for an option to come online. There is no advantage to Bancor of having these funds come in early as they are held in escrow. There are no discounts or other contingencies. There was a preset amount allocated to this option which may or may not be filled, and has no material impact on the fundraiser nor it’s cap. It’s unfortunate to hear that some are frustrated with this option, as we truly set it up to be a helpful mechanism for those who wanted it, and to calm concerns about not getting in before we were able to share our minimum hour mechanism. This was also intended for those who knew they couldn’t be available later in the month regardless of a cap or no cap. That all said, If anyone feels slighted by the unfolding of events and would like to withdraw their ETH from bitcoin suisse, we have decided to cover the fee penalties ourselves.

5. Re Protocol in this group, we welcome all opinions. However, we insist on healthy and respectful dialogue, and will not tolerate unproductive behavior. Bancor is clearly not a scam. We can agree to disagree on points, and we can be convinced of points we’ve overlooked, but we’d like to keep the discussion here constructive and not further feed the frenzy engine that has plagued so many projects before us, and prevents both us and you from getting value from this forum. We will be banning users who do not adhere to this protocol, and again we welcome respectful dialogue on all points."

Now, let's analyse their bullshit.

1. EVERYONE is able to participate and has been able to participate for over a week via bitcoinsuisee.ch/bancor where people can pay in CFH, GBP, EUR, USD, DKK, SDG, Ether or Bitcoins, meaning the 1 hour un-limited cap is COMPLETE BS!

2. So this isn't a fund raiser the INVESTORS, the people who believe in you and want to help you secure funds so that you can get it off the ground and turn it into a viable project. The truth is this is purely for the greedy bancor team to get rich.

3. They believe that it is in the investors interest to have an UNCAPPED ICO, or as they put it with a "hidden cap" (LOLOLOLOLOLLOL), so that they don't make a ROI or maybe even their money back.

4. Here they are making out that investors are angry that we have bitsuisse as an option, this is BS, nobody said that. We are also told that the funds raised via bitsuisse, " has no material impact on the fundraiser nor it’s cap" - WTF? So regardless of how much is raised, it doesn't affect the cap? Off course it doesn't - because you don't have a cap, you will see how it goes and when the investments start slowing down you will say that you've reached 80% of your imaginary cap. IN A REGULATED MARKED THIS WOULD BE ILLEGAL.

5. If you question them or state that you are not happy with this shambles of an ICO scam they will eject you, what can I say.. disagree and you're out.. very classy.

Instead of using the ICO to raise funds to support the project, they are using it to get rich quick.

[idontcare]

People seem to complain if there is a cap no matter whether its low or high and now people are fudding about it cause there is no cap. It seems people are unhappy no matter how an ICO is structured.

Pretty much this.

Capped ICO -  NOT FAIR, ALL THE GREEDY WHALES WILL BUY IT ALL!

Uncapped ICO -  NOT FAIR, ALL THE GREEDY WHALES WILL BUY TOO MUCH!

Just STFU and keep your ETH if you don't like it you whiny twats.

bullshit, if they have a cap, nobody can accuse them of anything as people have been able to invest for over a week via bitsuisee in a number of currencies and eth or btc.

[idontcare]

I have to agree. It's like accepting all the ETH that is sent your way. It is cool to get in but if everyone is getting in and there is no limit, the coin will not give investors profits.

that is exactly what they are doing. It's imba greed.

[shewasfourteen]

I think the ICO terms could be much better if devs do the following:
- let people invest with various ERC20 tokens - they can be used for token changers later anyway
- change the hard cap to 100 million (if you don't expect to raise 100 million anyway, why setting it to 250 million)

A Hardcap of 250Mio$ would mean that about ~100Mio Tokens will created, right?

Looks ok for me.........

[vaccin]

So to get in with bitcoinsuisse you have to pay a fee of around 100 euros + 1-2%. That's a bit nutzy.

[dollabillzbro]

I think the ICO terms could be much better if devs do the following:
- let people invest with various ERC20 tokens - they can be used for token changers later anyway
- change the hard cap to 100 million (if you don't expect to raise 100 million anyway, why setting it to 250 million)

A Hardcap of 250Mio$ would mean that about ~100Mio Tokens will created, right?

Looks ok for me.........

Man whales will congest the network and nobody will be able to buy anything, i will go in via pre-sale.

[frg7alien]

WOW, I invested my money, paid $100 to bitcoin suisse, they told me there is a hard cap



Then last minute: Actually we have uncapped 1hour sale, and then a "secret" hard limit

Is this some joke, why do you think you can scam the public like this ? Why is the marketcap being forced to well over 100M for a coin that hasn't done anything yet ?

Why did I pay bitcoin suisse fee if you have an uncapped sale ?

Scam coin, greedy devs trying to milk absolutely everything they can. Even though they hoarding 50% of all Bancor tokens it's not enough

[PaulEngelbertink]

Anyone did the pre sale?

I did.... I couldn't really see if all attachments were uploaded correct. It was superfast, normally uploading some attachments takes time, or the browser already pre uploaded it when I hit send on the end of the form..

[dollabillzbro]

Anyone did the pre sale?

I did.... I couldn't really see if all attachments were uploaded correct. It was superfast, normally uploading some attachments takes time, or the browser already pre uploaded it when I hit send on the end of the form..

i will do it tomorrow, how long did it take to finish ? (transfer money, get confirmation, etc)

[majestymage]

I think the ICO terms could be much better if devs do the following:
- let people invest with various ERC20 tokens - they can be used for token changers later anyway
- change the hard cap to 100 million (if you don't expect to raise 100 million anyway, why setting it to 250 million)

A Hardcap of 250Mio$ would mean that about ~100Mio Tokens will created, right?

Looks ok for me.........

Man whales will congest the network and nobody will be able to buy anything, i will go in via pre-sale.

donțt expect to raise 100 milions? this project can get 500 milions very easy. make a bet that bancor hit top 5 alt in 2 months?

[dollabillzbro]

I think the ICO terms could be much better if devs do the following:
- let people invest with various ERC20 tokens - they can be used for token changers later anyway
- change the hard cap to 100 million (if you don't expect to raise 100 million anyway, why setting it to 250 million)

A Hardcap of 250Mio$ would mean that about ~100Mio Tokens will created, right?

Looks ok for me.........

Man whales will congest the network and nobody will be able to buy anything, i will go in via pre-sale.

donțt expect to raise 100 milions? this project can get 500 milions very easy. make a bet that bancor hit top 5 alt in 2 months?

I said that due to hype it will be difficult to buy in this 1h, network get congested and people could miss out, i am not afraid that it will go to 500 million, this guys know what they are doing.

[jerrison]

please furnish us with information on how many tokens will be created and distributed. thanks

[ludbega]

Could be very important. Nobody wants to have bad reputation with that system. We need a max cap.

Indeed the project is wonderful but nobody wants this situation... one hour...

We need a vote !

[Bought1.5MilXVG@60sat]

If they do it this way, it doesn't evenm atter if they raise 100 or 200 or 500 million.
The name Bancor will be tarnished before it even starts.
With such a high profile project, you have to know beforehand what you need to realize your product. Don't collect as much cash as possible, from with 20% or whatever goes to the devs and founders etc. And then the "hidden" cap...
They take a large part of the reward away from the investors, heavily increase their risk, and give themselves heaps of spare cash for lamborghinis.
Sometimes you have to be "hard" and set a cap, or find some other way. But the team saying "we take as much money as possible" instead of "we need 30 mil for x, 50 mil for x+y" is simply unprofessional.

If they don't provide a different solution, capped in one way or the other, I will sadly have to ask nicolai to return my funds.
Oh right, I was told there'd be a cap and paid a fee to secure a spot ...  

[SockPuppetAccount]

If they do it this way, it doesn't evenm atter if they raise 100 or 200 or 500 million.
The name Bancor will be tarnished before it even starts.
With such a high profile project, you have to know beforehand what you need to realize your product. Don't collect as much cash as possible, from with 20% or whatever goes to the devs and founders etc. And then the "hidden" cap...
They take a large part of the reward away from the investors, heavily increase their risk, and give themselves heaps of spare cash for lamborghinis.
Sometimes you have to be "hard" and set a cap, or find some other way. But the team saying "we take as much money as possible" instead of "we need 30 mil for x, 50 mil for x+y" is simply unprofessional.

If they don't provide a different solution, capped in one way or the other, I will sadly have to ask nicolai to return my funds.
Oh right, I was told there'd be a cap and paid a fee to secure a spot ...  

There IS a cap.  The cap is secret though, because if it were known whales would know exactly how much ETH to send to ensure they scoop up all the coins in the first hour. 

Anyone arguing against this decision is either stupid or a sock puppet of the same whales that bought up BAT, and now they are salty they will have to pay dearly to corner the market on day one.

This coin is sexy as hell, and I got 20 ETH ready for the ICO.  Thanks for making sure the little guy can get piece of the action too!

[Bought1.5MilXVG@60sat]

If they do it this way, it doesn't evenm atter if they raise 100 or 200 or 500 million.
The name Bancor will be tarnished before it even starts.
With such a high profile project, you have to know beforehand what you need to realize your product. Don't collect as much cash as possible, from with 20% or whatever goes to the devs and founders etc. And then the "hidden" cap...
They take a large part of the reward away from the investors, heavily increase their risk, and give themselves heaps of spare cash for lamborghinis.
Sometimes you have to be "hard" and set a cap, or find some other way. But the team saying "we take as much money as possible" instead of "we need 30 mil for x, 50 mil for x+y" is simply unprofessional.

If they don't provide a different solution, capped in one way or the other, I will sadly have to ask nicolai to return my funds.
Oh right, I was told there'd be a cap and paid a fee to secure a spot ...  

There IS a cap.  The cap is secret though, because if it were known whales would know exactly how much ETH to send to ensure they scoop up all the coins in the first hour. 

Anyone arguing against this decision is either stupid or a sock puppet of the same whales that bought up BAT, and now they are salty they will have to pay dearly to corner the market on day one.

This coin is sexy as hell, and I got 20 ETH ready for the ICO.  Thanks for making sure the little guy can get piece of the action too!

Your answer implies that one of us understood the terms wrong. So I just read them again and came to the same conclusion:
During the first hour, their (hidden) cap does not matter whatsoever.
If they set the "cap" to say 50 million, but at the 5 minute mark this sum is acquired, the ICO will continue (since they guarantee one hour and there is no other mechanism in place). So at 60 minutes they could have raised 600+ and then that's it.
The way I see it, the guaranteed 1 houre overrides the cap, whatever it might be.
But please, correct me if I'm wrong.

[SockPuppetAccount]

If they do it this way, it doesn't evenm atter if they raise 100 or 200 or 500 million.
The name Bancor will be tarnished before it even starts.
With such a high profile project, you have to know beforehand what you need to realize your product. Don't collect as much cash as possible, from with 20% or whatever goes to the devs and founders etc. And then the "hidden" cap...
They take a large part of the reward away from the investors, heavily increase their risk, and give themselves heaps of spare cash for lamborghinis.
Sometimes you have to be "hard" and set a cap, or find some other way. But the team saying "we take as much money as possible" instead of "we need 30 mil for x, 50 mil for x+y" is simply unprofessional.

If they don't provide a different solution, capped in one way or the other, I will sadly have to ask nicolai to return my funds.
Oh right, I was told there'd be a cap and paid a fee to secure a spot ...  

There IS a cap.  The cap is secret though, because if it were known whales would know exactly how much ETH to send to ensure they scoop up all the coins in the first hour. 

Anyone arguing against this decision is either stupid or a sock puppet of the same whales that bought up BAT, and now they are salty they will have to pay dearly to corner the market on day one.

This coin is sexy as hell, and I got 20 ETH ready for the ICO.  Thanks for making sure the little guy can get piece of the action too!

Your answer implies that one of us understood the terms wrong. So I just read them again and came to the same conclusion:
During the first hour, their (hidden) cap does not matter whatsoever.
If they set the "cap" to say 50 million, but at the 5 minute mark this sum is acquired, the ICO will continue (since they guarantee one hour and there is no other mechanism in place). So at 60 minutes they could have raised 600+ and then that's it.
The way I see it, the guaranteed 1 houre overrides the cap, whatever it might be.
But please, correct me if I'm wrong.

You are correct.  If hitting the cap would shut down the ICO, whales would just continue pumping 10000 ETH at a time into it until it hits the cap.  If the cap is known, whales will just send what it takes to corner the market right away.

I don't know what you guys want here.  If you can devise an ICO method that keeps the marketcap reasonable, while at the same time preventing a small group from cornering the market on day one, let's hear it.  All I see is bitching and moaning. 

All I know is I am not a whale and I am never getting into the ICO if it is capped.  If that means my investment is gonna take longer to appreciate in value, so be it.  Wasn't planning on selling anytime soon anyway.

[Bought1.5MilXVG@60sat]

don't know what you guys want here.  If you can devise an ICO method that keeps the marketcap reasonable, while at the same time preventing a small group from cornering the market on day one, let's hear it.  All I see is bitching and moaning.

Use the pre-ICO with BTC-suisse to let the small fish and everyone else who doesn't want to gamble get in. There, you can mostly cap the investment per customer (ID verification).
The ones who want to invest whale-amounts or think they can make it and want to avoid the fee/identification can try their luck in the "open" ICO with a reasonable cap.