ICONOMI - Live for today. Invest for tomorrow.

[soleiro]

Order placed.... so go and buy it... see ya on the moon ...

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[Daparski]

The first buyback is only around 85K ICN's...spread over 90 days.... so they go to buy back around 1000 ICN a day.... that's nothing...That will not effect the market price... For me the decision to go the buyback way is 100% against what I expected and what was promised with ICO. We are owner of the platform, and Iconomi decides to change the basics. That's not fair in my opinion.  I want ETH as Dividends... my % of Iconomi would be the same...but I would earn ETH, which in few years is 1000 times more worth than ICN.

Nothing like that was "promised" during the ICO. They presented a roadmap and fundamentals.
Fundamentals haven't changed.

You are not owner of the platform, you don't get to decide how the service operator decides to implement its plans. You only have shares in the revenue.
What was changed was the way they distribute profits, and for that no one promised a vote.

You are talking about dividends in the form of eth, like you would receive 10 eth every week. If you want to go long on eth, you can buy from the market.

[soleiro]

The first buyback is only around 85K ICN's...spread over 90 days.... so they go to buy back around 1000 ICN a day.... that's nothing...That will not effect the market price... For me the decision to go the buyback way is 100% against what I expected and what was promised with ICO. We are owner of the platform, and Iconomi decides to change the basics. That's not fair in my opinion.  I want ETH as Dividends... my % of Iconomi would be the same...but I would earn ETH, which in few years is 1000 times more worth than ICN.

Nothing like that was "promised" during the ICO. They presented a roadmap and fundamentals.
Fundamentals haven't changed.

You are not owner of the platform, you don't get to decide how the service operator decides to implement its plans. You only have shares in the revenue.
What was changed was the way they distribute profits, and for that no one promised a vote.

You are talking about dividends in the form of eth, like you would receive 10 eth every week. If you want to go long on eth, you can buy from the market.

Come on... as the main Moderator you should be aware of what they promised. (by the way your FAQ link in your footer doesn't work anymore)
and in the AMA Tim responded to me that there will be dividends... so don't tell me that was not promised. Such answers make me even more skeptic.

From the whitepaper:
"Being a crowdfunded project, a majority of 85 % will be owned by the crowdfunding participants in the form of ICONOMI tokens (“ICN”), while"
"ICN tokens represent ownership of the ICONOMI platform, allowing their holders to receive dividends and vote on ICONOMI related issues."

[MoveCrypto]

The first buyback is only around 85K ICN's...spread over 90 days.... so they go to buy back around 1000 ICN a day.... that's nothing...That will not effect the market price... For me the decision to go the buyback way is 100% against what I expected and what was promised with ICO. We are owner of the platform, and Iconomi decides to change the basics. That's not fair in my opinion.  I want ETH as Dividends... my % of Iconomi would be the same...but I would earn ETH, which in few years is 1000 times more worth than ICN.

is clear that you don't understand what is going on, so do me favour and read this article and stop the fud.

https://medium.com/@theDAOKING/the-iconomi-burn-crypto-buybacks-f9edb30530fe

I can read...and I can do math.... but you seem to be naiv. Why Fud?? I loved the project.... my ICN's were on Iconomi site since ICO.... but today transferred to Exchange. Now only day trading. No more holding.

With Dividends, I would have to do nothing.... just getting ETH every week. Now I will have to see if price went up, have to sell some, do calculations to maintain % of Iconomi etc. Good for Iconomi, bad for Investors that wanted mainly ETH as dividends. As more as I think about, more I think I gonna sell all my tokens. Take this nice profit from ICO and buy back into ICNX or ICNP.

by all means, do it, sell it all, let me be a fool for buying them

I can see...one more child with 1 ICN...hahhaha.....Ok, will do, gives me over 400% Profit from ICO... more than good to me.... will be happy to buy them back later for 0.000250 again... and then sell them to you again for 0.0006

Wow, so you confess that your entire motive is to sell ICN at 60k+ satoshi then FUD campaign about "muh dividends!" to try to buy back cheaper and increase your stake in ICN.

It's a plan that might work to scam some small newbies into dumping, but it's not going to work on an experienced person and it's even less effective if you admit exactly what you're trying to do.

[MadGamer]

Call me an ignorant but I don't understand how the buyback system is better, ICN just like every other crypto currency get its price from the demand and It should get demand so people could use it for a purpose right? In the first case, to receive dividends, now and we switched to buyback, why would people buy ICN If it has no purpose anymore? 

I'm an investor and I'm not trying to spread FUD honestly, I just want to get some things cleared to me so I decided If I should invest more or not. I see that the price already started increasing so I might be missing something.

[soleiro]

The first buyback is only around 85K ICN's...spread over 90 days.... so they go to buy back around 1000 ICN a day.... that's nothing...That will not effect the market price... For me the decision to go the buyback way is 100% against what I expected and what was promised with ICO. We are owner of the platform, and Iconomi decides to change the basics. That's not fair in my opinion.  I want ETH as Dividends... my % of Iconomi would be the same...but I would earn ETH, which in few years is 1000 times more worth than ICN.

is clear that you don't understand what is going on, so do me favour and read this article and stop the fud.

https://medium.com/@theDAOKING/the-iconomi-burn-crypto-buybacks-f9edb30530fe

I can read...and I can do math.... but you seem to be naiv. Why Fud?? I loved the project.... my ICN's were on Iconomi site since ICO.... but today transferred to Exchange. Now only day trading. No more holding.

With Dividends, I would have to do nothing.... just getting ETH every week. Now I will have to see if price went up, have to sell some, do calculations to maintain % of Iconomi etc. Good for Iconomi, bad for Investors that wanted mainly ETH as dividends. As more as I think about, more I think I gonna sell all my tokens. Take this nice profit from ICO and buy back into ICNX or ICNP.

by all means, do it, sell it all, let me be a fool for buying them

I can see...one more child with 1 ICN...hahhaha.....Ok, will do, gives me over 400% Profit from ICO... more than good to me.... will be happy to buy them back later for 0.000250 again... and then sell them to you again for 0.0006

Wow, so you confess that your entire motive is to sell ICN at 60k+ satoshi then FUD campaign about "muh dividends!" to try to buy back cheaper for profit.

Absolutely not..? My goal was to have as much ICN as possible to get passive income in ETH. I had until today untouched ICN on Iconomi and planned to hold long time. Besided I daytraded on Kraken to get more ICN. This is now not possible anymore to get passive income from Iconomi... I will have to actively check and sell, calculate my % of Iconomi etc...this was not what I bought ICN for.

I wonder if somebody is not an absolut fan of Iconomi here, he's considered a FUDer... come on...

[MoveCrypto]

Call me an ignorant but I don't understand how the buyback system is better, ICN just like every other crypto currency get its price from the demand and It should get demand so people could use it for a purpose right? In the first case, to receive dividends, now and we switched to buyback, why would people buy ICN If it has no purpose anymore?  

I'm an investor and I'm not trying to spread FUD honestly, I just want to get some things cleared to me so I decided If I should invest more or not. I see that the price already started increasing so I might be missing something.

ICN still represents a share of all the fees from Iconomi platform.  They didn't change the fundamentals, only the fee distribution mechanism.

dividend or buy/burn are two different methods of distributing fees

For example, say the market cap is $100m and you own 1/1000 of ICN supply or $100k worth

Iconomi wants to distribute 1000 ETH profits to ICN holders:

A) they send ETH to every address, and now you have 1/1000 of the ICN supply ($100k) + 1 ETH

B) they buy/burn 1000 ETH worth of ICN, shrinking the supply so that you now have 1/999.5 of the ICN supply worth ($100k + 1 ETH)

In case B) you could sell exactly 1 ETH worth of ICN and you would end up with 1/1000 of the ICN supply ($100k) + 1 ETH, just like in case A)

It's not the end of the world if you have to hold less than 0.5% of your ICN on exchange then slowly sell it in order to receive your ETH dividends.


This article does a good job of further explaining the fundamentals of ICN:
https://medium.com/@theDAOKING/the-iconomi-burn-crypto-buybacks-f9edb30530fe

[Marvintymo]

ICN is still one of the most promising projects in the cryptosphere at the moment IMHO.

[ruletheworld]

Call me an ignorant but I don't understand how the buyback system is better, ICN just like every other crypto currency get its price from the demand and It should get demand so people could use it for a purpose right? In the first case, to receive dividends, now and we switched to buyback, why would people buy ICN If it has no purpose anymore?  

I'm an investor and I'm not trying to spread FUD honestly, I just want to get some things cleared to me so I decided If I should invest more or not. I see that the price already started increasing so I might be missing something.

ICN still represents a share of all the fees from Iconomi platform.  They didn't change the fundamentals, only the fee distribution mechanism.

dividend or buy/burn are two different methods of distributing fees

For example, say the market cap is $100m and you own 1/1000 of ICN supply or $100k worth

Iconomi wants to distribute 1000 ETH profits to ICN holders:

A) they send ETH to every address, and now you have 1/1000 of the ICN supply ($100k) + 1 ETH

B) they buy/burn 1000 ETH worth of ICN, shrinking the supply so that you now have 1/999.5 of the ICN supply worth ($100k + 1 ETH)

In case B) you could sell exactly 1 ETH worth of ICN and you would end up with 1/1000 of the ICN supply ($100k) + 1 ETH, just like in case A)

It's not the end of the world if you have to hold less than 0.5% of your ICN on exchange then slowly sell it in order to receive your ETH dividends.


This article does a good job of further explaining the fundamentals of ICN:
https://medium.com/@theDAOKING/the-iconomi-burn-crypto-buybacks-f9edb30530fe

This line of thinking is especially dangerous in non-efficient markets. What you've proved above holds true only if the price of the token represents strictly the underlying economics, which it doesn't, especially in crypto.

The problem with this line of thinking is, you are taking on the exchange rate risk, in addition to the economic risk of the underlying (stock, token, whatever). If you were an investor, do you think you would have preferred dividends from KO during 2008-2009 or would you rather have sold your KO stock, at its lowest point in a generation, to cover the same pseudo-dividend?

Your analysis doesn't take into account price speculation. This is very well known to people who invest in traditional stocks (dividend paying vs. non-dividend paying). I am not saying this is a bad move by the ICONOMI team, but it is incorrect to characterize it as being economically identical to the end investors.

[MoveCrypto]

Call me an ignorant but I don't understand how the buyback system is better, ICN just like every other crypto currency get its price from the demand and It should get demand so people could use it for a purpose right? In the first case, to receive dividends, now and we switched to buyback, why would people buy ICN If it has no purpose anymore?  

I'm an investor and I'm not trying to spread FUD honestly, I just want to get some things cleared to me so I decided If I should invest more or not. I see that the price already started increasing so I might be missing something.

ICN still represents a share of all the fees from Iconomi platform.  They didn't change the fundamentals, only the fee distribution mechanism.

dividend or buy/burn are two different methods of distributing fees

For example, say the market cap is $100m and you own 1/1000 of ICN supply or $100k worth

Iconomi wants to distribute 1000 ETH profits to ICN holders:

A) they send ETH to every address, and now you have 1/1000 of the ICN supply ($100k) + 1 ETH

B) they buy/burn 1000 ETH worth of ICN, shrinking the supply so that you now have 1/999.5 of the ICN supply worth ($100k + 1 ETH)

In case B) you could sell exactly 1 ETH worth of ICN and you would end up with 1/1000 of the ICN supply ($100k) + 1 ETH, just like in case A)

It's not the end of the world if you have to hold less than 0.5% of your ICN on exchange then slowly sell it in order to receive your ETH dividends.


This article does a good job of further explaining the fundamentals of ICN:
https://medium.com/@theDAOKING/the-iconomi-burn-crypto-buybacks-f9edb30530fe

This line of thinking is especially dangerous in non-efficient markets. What you've proved above holds true only if the price of the token represents strictly the underlying economics, which it doesn't, especially in crypto.

The problem with this line of thinking is, you are taking on the exchange rate risk, in addition to the economic risk of the underlying (stock, token, whatever). If you were an investor, do you think you would have preferred dividends from KO during 2008-2009 or would you rather have sold your KO stock, at its lowest point in a generation, to cover the same pseudo-dividend?

Your analysis doesn't take into account price speculation. This is very well known to people who invest in traditional stocks (dividend paying vs. non-dividend paying). I am not saying this is a bad move by the ICONOMI team, but it is incorrect to characterize it as being economically identical to the end investors.

Chronobank also changed their fee distribution mechanism in this 4 March blog post, to a method that is less convenient than ICN's buy/burn.  You have to deposit TIME into a smart contract to receive your fees:
https://blog.chronobank.io/time-token-reward-model-1c3508208791

There was no such explosion of opinions and activity when they did this, so I believe this reaction to Iconomi's blog post is very bullish.

[petricag]

I wonder if somebody is not an absolut fan of Iconomi here, he's considered a FUDer... come on...

Shills or FUDers ... the only options )

[MoveCrypto]

Two other cryptos which used buy/burn were Nushares and Bitshares.  However, both of these had inflation that would cancel out the buy/burn.  I may have to do further research, but I have a theory that ICN is:
1) the first ever deflationary crypto
2) the largest $ amount ever to be bought/burned in crypto if their upcoming $50k proof of concept

[WhitePaperIII]

Ok so I invested in the crowd-sale months ago and requested my tokens to my ether wallet on my desktop and I checked etherscan and it says my tokens did send to the correct address the only problem I am having is how the hell do I watch this token on my wallet? I put in the contract address and then it wants some jSon code? I just want my tokens. What can I do?

You need private keys.json file etc to login to your myetherwallet account.I hope you have saved any of that when you signed up for myetherwallet account.
If not,I am afraid to say,there is no way to access your account now.

I am not using a myetherwallet account. I am talking about the original downloadable Ether wallet and want to get my tokens. Maybe I just have to wait for the wallet to sync more? What more do I need besides the contract address to see my tokens in this wallet?

[anonbit992]

Ok so I invested in the crowd-sale months ago and requested my tokens to my ether wallet on my desktop and I checked etherscan and it says my tokens did send to the correct address the only problem I am having is how the hell do I watch this token on my wallet? I put in the contract address and then it wants some jSon code? I just want my tokens. What can I do?

You need private keys.json file etc to login to your myetherwallet account.I hope you have saved any of that when you signed up for myetherwallet account.
If not,I am afraid to say,there is no way to access your account now.

I am not using a myetherwallet account. I am talking about the original downloadable Ether wallet and want to get my tokens. Maybe I just have to wait for the wallet to sync more? What more do I need besides the contract address to see my tokens in this wallet?

I believe you are using Mist or Parity. Now if you are doing so, you will have to wait till the entire ethereum blockchain has been downloaded or till you wallet is completed synced with the network. Till then, I don't think you will be able to see your tokens. I haven't used one as it takes days to get the ethereum blockchain downloaded with internet connection that I have and I use https://www.myetherwallet.com/

[MoveCrypto]

Ok so I invested in the crowd-sale months ago and requested my tokens to my ether wallet on my desktop and I checked etherscan and it says my tokens did send to the correct address the only problem I am having is how the hell do I watch this token on my wallet? I put in the contract address and then it wants some jSon code? I just want my tokens. What can I do?

You need private keys.json file etc to login to your myetherwallet account.I hope you have saved any of that when you signed up for myetherwallet account.
If not,I am afraid to say,there is no way to access your account now.

I am not using a myetherwallet account. I am talking about the original downloadable Ether wallet and want to get my tokens. Maybe I just have to wait for the wallet to sync more? What more do I need besides the contract address to see my tokens in this wallet?

I believe you are using Mist or Parity. Now if you are doing so, you will have to wait till the entire ethereum blockchain has been downloaded or till you wallet is completed synced with the network. Till then, I don't think you will be able to see your tokens. I haven't used one as it takes days to get the ethereum blockchain downloaded with internet connection that I have and I use https://www.myetherwallet.com/

If you really want to run your ethereum wallet as a full node on your local machine, you could also download a blockchain snapshot so you don't have to wait for it to sync.

http://ethereum.stackexchange.com/questions/10465/is-it-possible-to-make-the-parity-software-sync-faster

With parity, this is done by starting from scratch (clear previous blockchain data, but not your wallet file obviously, always save that) with this command:
parity --warp

Can access the parity GUI from any web browser:
http://localhost:8080/

[Daparski]

Call me an ignorant but I don't understand how the buyback system is better, ICN just like every other crypto currency get its price from the demand and It should get demand so people could use it for a purpose right? In the first case, to receive dividends, now and we switched to buyback, why would people buy ICN If it has no purpose anymore?  

I'm an investor and I'm not trying to spread FUD honestly, I just want to get some things cleared to me so I decided If I should invest more or not. I see that the price already started increasing so I might be missing something.

ICN still represents a share of all the fees from Iconomi platform.  They didn't change the fundamentals, only the fee distribution mechanism.

dividend or buy/burn are two different methods of distributing fees

For example, say the market cap is $100m and you own 1/1000 of ICN supply or $100k worth

Iconomi wants to distribute 1000 ETH profits to ICN holders:

A) they send ETH to every address, and now you have 1/1000 of the ICN supply ($100k) + 1 ETH

B) they buy/burn 1000 ETH worth of ICN, shrinking the supply so that you now have 1/999.5 of the ICN supply worth ($100k + 1 ETH)

In case B) you could sell exactly 1 ETH worth of ICN and you would end up with 1/1000 of the ICN supply ($100k) + 1 ETH, just like in case A)

It's not the end of the world if you have to hold less than 0.5% of your ICN on exchange then slowly sell it in order to receive your ETH dividends.


This article does a good job of further explaining the fundamentals of ICN:
https://medium.com/@theDAOKING/the-iconomi-burn-crypto-buybacks-f9edb30530fe

This line of thinking is especially dangerous in non-efficient markets. What you've proved above holds true only if the price of the token represents strictly the underlying economics, which it doesn't, especially in crypto.

The problem with this line of thinking is, you are taking on the exchange rate risk, in addition to the economic risk of the underlying (stock, token, whatever). If you were an investor, do you think you would have preferred dividends from KO during 2008-2009 or would you rather have sold your KO stock, at its lowest point in a generation, to cover the same pseudo-dividend?

Your analysis doesn't take into account price speculation. This is very well known to people who invest in traditional stocks (dividend paying vs. non-dividend paying). I am not saying this is a bad move by the ICONOMI team, but it is incorrect to characterize it as being economically identical to the end investors.

This line of thinking is especially dangerous in non-efficient markets. What you've proved above holds true only if the price of the token represents strictly the underlying economics, which it doesn't, especially in crypto.

It does. ICNP current net value is 10M usd

[operabit]

wtf! 60k sat? this very sad for dumper

[WhitePaperIII]

Ok so I invested in the crowd-sale months ago and requested my tokens to my ether wallet on my desktop and I checked etherscan and it says my tokens did send to the correct address the only problem I am having is how the hell do I watch this token on my wallet? I put in the contract address and then it wants some jSon code? I just want my tokens. What can I do?

You need private keys.json file etc to login to your myetherwallet account.I hope you have saved any of that when you signed up for myetherwallet account.
If not,I am afraid to say,there is no way to access your account now.

I am not using a myetherwallet account. I am talking about the original downloadable Ether wallet and want to get my tokens. Maybe I just have to wait for the wallet to sync more? What more do I need besides the contract address to see my tokens in this wallet?

I believe you are using Mist or Parity. Now if you are doing so, you will have to wait till the entire ethereum blockchain has been downloaded or till you wallet is completed synced with the network. Till then, I don't think you will be able to see your tokens. I haven't used one as it takes days to get the ethereum blockchain downloaded with internet connection that I have and I use https://www.myetherwallet.com/

I am just running Geth alone as it seems to pick up blocks faster running alone. The only thing is my geth is stuck in my ethereum 8.2 wallet and not the newest. Like when it updated it just kept the same geth from months ago and never added Geth to the new version.

[Daparski]

The first buyback is only around 85K ICN's...spread over 90 days.... so they go to buy back around 1000 ICN a day.... that's nothing...That will not effect the market price... For me the decision to go the buyback way is 100% against what I expected and what was promised with ICO. We are owner of the platform, and Iconomi decides to change the basics. That's not fair in my opinion.  I want ETH as Dividends... my % of Iconomi would be the same...but I would earn ETH, which in few years is 1000 times more worth than ICN.

Nothing like that was "promised" during the ICO. They presented a roadmap and fundamentals.
Fundamentals haven't changed.

You are not owner of the platform, you don't get to decide how the service operator decides to implement its plans. You only have shares in the revenue.
What was changed was the way they distribute profits, and for that no one promised a vote.

You are talking about dividends in the form of eth, like you would receive 10 eth every week. If you want to go long on eth, you can buy from the market.

Come on... as the main Moderator you should be aware of what they promised. (by the way your FAQ link in your footer doesn't work anymore)
and in the AMA Tim responded to me that there will be dividends... so don't tell me that was not promised. Such answers make me even more skeptic.

From the whitepaper:
"Being a crowdfunded project, a majority of 85 % will be owned by the crowdfunding participants in the form of ICONOMI tokens (“ICN”), while"
"ICN tokens represent ownership of the ICONOMI platform, allowing their holders to receive dividends and vote on ICONOMI related issues."

thanks for the signature tip


They didn't promise, what are we in kindergarden? Keep in mind that Iconomi is a young startup, running for 6 months in a ultra-fast changing environment.

There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.
The most important for every young company is to be able to foreseen potential obstacles and find elegant solutions before they occur.

IMO changing the profit distribution to buy/burn is such an example. Besides the potential legal implications that were already discussed, profit distribution in the first year of a startup should not be its main goal.
The focus should be developing its core business/product. In our case it is to release a secure, easy to use and usable platform (OFM).

I wrote it here and on slack several times - dividends are a mid-late game tool. No need to burn extra hours in distributing them now.
By burn extra hours I mean the technical implementation of it, testing, adding much more pressure on the support, having to spend tons of hours with exchanges, and at the end spend much more of those profits for fees.

Dividends are not the big deal, OFM with big userbase and a lot of active funds is.

[icoyan]

Wait what? Polo confirmed???

Yeah, I didn't get that out of reading that screenshot either.

I think Polo is inevitable, but if someone has an actual confirmation, I sure would love to see it.

As all slack old hands know, the second question is "When dividends"