ICONOMI - Live for today. Invest for tomorrow.

[Mendeleev]

An updated whitepaper would solve all of this. Can we agree on that?

Definitely.

To the guy calling me misinformed (Renavatio)... I already know about that post from the AMA you quoted, and responded to Daparski about it. Try not to claim I'm misinformed, when you haven't even read all of my posts.

We are simply having a discussion/debate here. There's no need for anybody to wade in and throw insults around. There's no need for any emotional outbursts at all. The subject matter isn't a life or death situation. Calm down.

The issue is clearly under debate - and not just by me.

Calm your tits 

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[andreibi]

We won't see ICN on Polo forever, would we?

[Hypolite]

It is really painful for people who ask the same questions that have already had dozens of answers. Take the time to look for answers to your questions, get an idea by yourself.
And the FUD / TROLL pass your way, go play elsewhere thanks

Cheers.

[2012]

If I have to choose between holding icn or buying icnp, which one should i go for and why?
I do not have lots of funds for icnp so I might have to sell off my icn

you can't buy icnp lol.

At the moment only available option hold the current one or buy more ICN. Agreed with you other one is token for financial platform and I also prefer the first option to hold this token.

[ajhodge7]

This prediction is worth nothing after Jani confirmed that  

And again the concept of value - it will bring additional value, but in no way it will be it's "only value".

With statements like that you sound like a troll - a well disguised one but still.

The "prediction" is that it will be its sole value. I know Jani comfirmed that it will happen. My prediction is worth something in that I'm saying it will be the only value - at least to start with (which you disagree with)

I could be dead wrong, of course. That's just the direction I'm going with what I believe I know.

It's not intended as trolling, because I'm not saying "this will be terrible!"... Golem GNT was originally intended as a sort of "share" but they transitioned last minute. Mysterium are making the same move, because they know they can't (legally) offer shares at this moment in time. Mysterium's move is what further leads me to saying a lot of the things I've said. It seems like Mysterium have learned from Iconomi's mistake in this area.

I agree with you, though, that this isn't how crypto works right now. But that's just it - I'm only talking about now. I also envision a future where a token will serve that purpose. But we're not there yet.

I'm out and about, so can't go over each point you made - but it looks like you made some good points there. I may respond via DM later, if I have anything more to add.

Have a nice day!

P.S. - Read the end of my response to Daparski above. You mentioned communication channels. See if you can get Jani to confirm what you're saying. It would be the first step toward convincing me (and others) - then we can take it from there.

@Mendeleev You are a seriously misinformed person. If you had spent just 1 minute going through the latest reddit AMA then you would know that jani already confirmed that ICN does in fact represent ownership of the ICNP and even other assets

I quote: "Yes - theoretically If ICONOMI closes down all the assets (that are currently worth around $33m) would be evenly distributed across every ICN token holders. Technically we would have to deploy a smart contract, convert all the assets into ETH (preferably) or any other ETH based tokens and allow anyone with a corresponding balance at certain block height to take ETH from that contract. On exchanges price would become equal or come with a slight discount compared to book value."

The original question was: "There has been a few comments recently by other users that question ICN's value and where it is derived from. I understand that the buy-back is a profit distribution method, but since ICN represents ownership of Iconomi... Does that mean that if hypothetically Iconomi was to close down tomorrow, would all the assets worth over $33 million be distributed evenly across every ICN token? I think this will clarify ICN's value proposition and whether it does actually represent ownership of the Iconomi platform including assets managed by ICNP and funds raised through ICO. "


Aside from that, it is not unfeasible to believe that ICN will be the sole token to purchase ICNX on the platform.

Furthermore, ICN does buybacks. A portion of all of the profits from the platform will result in buybacks. This means over time this will be a deflationary cryptotoken unlike BTC or ETH. The buyback also guarantees a stake in the success of the platform.

Lastly, it is not impossible that the ICN team may decide to allow people to participate in ICO's using ICN.

ICNP is $28.473 million as of this writing.  20% of this is $5.69 million (amount given to "shareholders").  If you held 40,000 ICN the % of ownership is 0.4% (based on etherscan last time I checked...about 2 weeks ago).  If Iconomi liquidated their operation then $22,760 would be given to the 40,000 ICN holder.  This equates to about $0.57 an ICN share.  ICN is now trading at $1.03. 

Just adding to the debate.  It is up to you to decide if Iconomi is worth the $0.46 premium per ICN...and that is based on what you think the future price is.  For the $100 per ICN to be hit ICONOMI would need to be a $5 billion company based on the liquidation numbers.  If people are paying a premium then the company would need to be around $2-3 billion... For comparison sake Apple and Google are $500+ billion.  Vanguard says it is worth around $250 million, others claim $3.5 billion. 

My thinking...Iconomi is similar to Vanguard, not an Apple or Google.  However, Vanguard is at the top of the heap of the Merrill Lynch, Charles Schwab, ETrade, etc. group.  $100 is possible, maybe not probable. 

[denking]

This prediction is worth nothing after Jani confirmed that  

And again the concept of value - it will bring additional value, but in no way it will be it's "only value".

With statements like that you sound like a troll - a well disguised one but still.

The "prediction" is that it will be its sole value. I know Jani comfirmed that it will happen. My prediction is worth something in that I'm saying it will be the only value - at least to start with (which you disagree with)

I could be dead wrong, of course. That's just the direction I'm going with what I believe I know.

It's not intended as trolling, because I'm not saying "this will be terrible!"... Golem GNT was originally intended as a sort of "share" but they transitioned last minute. Mysterium are making the same move, because they know they can't (legally) offer shares at this moment in time. Mysterium's move is what further leads me to saying a lot of the things I've said. It seems like Mysterium have learned from Iconomi's mistake in this area.

I agree with you, though, that this isn't how crypto works right now. But that's just it - I'm only talking about now. I also envision a future where a token will serve that purpose. But we're not there yet.

I'm out and about, so can't go over each point you made - but it looks like you made some good points there. I may respond via DM later, if I have anything more to add.

Have a nice day!

P.S. - Read the end of my response to Daparski above. You mentioned communication channels. See if you can get Jani to confirm what you're saying. It would be the first step toward convincing me (and others) - then we can take it from there.

@Mendeleev You are a seriously misinformed person. If you had spent just 1 minute going through the latest reddit AMA then you would know that jani already confirmed that ICN does in fact represent ownership of the ICNP and even other assets

I quote: "Yes - theoretically If ICONOMI closes down all the assets (that are currently worth around $33m) would be evenly distributed across every ICN token holders. Technically we would have to deploy a smart contract, convert all the assets into ETH (preferably) or any other ETH based tokens and allow anyone with a corresponding balance at certain block height to take ETH from that contract. On exchanges price would become equal or come with a slight discount compared to book value."

The original question was: "There has been a few comments recently by other users that question ICN's value and where it is derived from. I understand that the buy-back is a profit distribution method, but since ICN represents ownership of Iconomi... Does that mean that if hypothetically Iconomi was to close down tomorrow, would all the assets worth over $33 million be distributed evenly across every ICN token? I think this will clarify ICN's value proposition and whether it does actually represent ownership of the Iconomi platform including assets managed by ICNP and funds raised through ICO. "


Aside from that, it is not unfeasible to believe that ICN will be the sole token to purchase ICNX on the platform.

Furthermore, ICN does buybacks. A portion of all of the profits from the platform will result in buybacks. This means over time this will be a deflationary cryptotoken unlike BTC or ETH. The buyback also guarantees a stake in the success of the platform.

Lastly, it is not impossible that the ICN team may decide to allow people to participate in ICO's using ICN.

ICNP is $28.473 million as of this writing.  20% of this is $5.69 million (amount given to "shareholders").  If you held 40,000 ICN the % of ownership is 0.4% (based on etherscan last time I checked...about 2 weeks ago).  If Iconomi liquidated their operation then $22,760 would be given to the 40,000 ICN holder.  This equates to about $0.57 an ICN share.  ICN is now trading at $1.03. 

Just adding to the debate.  It is up to you to decide if Iconomi is worth the $0.46 premium per ICN...and that is based on what you think the future price is.  For the $100 per ICN to be hit ICONOMI would need to be a $5 billion company based on the liquidation numbers.  If people are paying a premium then the company would need to be around $2-3 billion... For comparison sake Apple and Google are $500+ billion.  Vanguard says it is worth around $250 million, others claim $3.5 billion. 

My thinking...Iconomi is similar to Vanguard, not an Apple or Google.  However, Vanguard is at the top of the heap of the Merrill Lynch, Charles Schwab, ETrade, etc. group.  $100 is possible, maybe not probable. 

Don't forgot the payback token removed from supply...

[Daparski]

ICNP is $28.473 million as of this writing.  20% of this is $5.69 million (amount given to "shareholders").  If you held 40,000 ICN the % of ownership is 0.4%....
 

40,000 ICN is actually 0.04%

[AdobeWriter]

We won't see ICN on Polo forever, would we?

Don't see a reason why we won't see it on Poloniex. Anyway, even if they don't list it, ICN proved it's capable of making it to the moon without Polo. We may see it get listed by Bittrex too, we'll wait and see.

[calvinstm]

Just got THE email from Iconomi. I have been granted access to ICNX And I am in no way a top 10 ICN wallet holder. Heck I am probably not even in the top 100...

Confirmed. I've received Beta access also. FYI, I am one of the original ICO investors, but DID NOT apply for Beta program.

Looks like we're extremely close to official launch of Iconomi Platform... HODL and don't let those FUDDERs steal your ICNs!!  

[calvinstm]

(for newcomers to the thread)

What's on the agenda --

1. Soon, Team Iconomi will announce the result of the first buyback & burn operation (First week of June - most likely during monthly scheduled AMA)...

2. Release of Q2 financial report (we'll most likely see the book value more than doubled!).

3. Announcement of expansion of Beta program (we should see at least hundreds of Beta testers added -- which lead to a drastic increase in net profit that will be used in 2nd buyback).

4. Conclusion of cofound.it ICO (Remember Iconomi owns 10% outright!)

5. 2nd AMA session with Jani (we will most likely get an updated road map as well as progress report)

June is officially the month of Iconomi!

[denking]

(for newcomers to the thread)

What's on the agenda --

1. Soon, Team Iconomi will announce the result of the first buyback & burn operation (First week of June - most likely during monthly scheduled AMA)...

2. Release of Q2 financial report (we'll most likely see the book value more than doubled!).

3. Announcement of expansion of Beta program (we should see at least hundreds of Beta testers added -- which lead to a drastic increase in net profit that will be used in 2nd buyback).

4. Conclusion of cofound.it ICO (Remember Iconomi owns 10% outright!)

5. 2nd AMA session with Jani (we will most likely get an updated road map as well as progress report)

June is officially the month of Iconomi!

Good post thanls

[Mendeleev]

(for newcomers to the thread)

What's on the agenda --

1. Soon, Team Iconomi will announce the result of the first buyback & burn operation (First week of June - most likely during monthly scheduled AMA)...

2. Release of Q2 financial report (we'll most likely see the book value more than doubled!).

3. Announcement of expansion of Beta program (we should see at least hundreds of Beta testers added -- which lead to a drastic increase in net profit that will be used in 2nd buyback).

4. Conclusion of cofound.it ICO (Remember Iconomi owns 10% outright!)

5. 2nd AMA session with Jani (we will most likely get an updated road map as well as progress report)

June is officially the month of Iconomi!

What are you talking about?

Points 1 & 2... Q2 ends at the end of June - this is when the first buyback round ends, and the Q2 report is released.

Point 3... pulled out of your ass.

Point 4... irrelevant.

Point 5... Another chance for Jani to take 10 hours to answer half the AMA, and then abandon it. Woopee!

Updated roadmap? Who says? Where is that information coming from?

Stop talking shit.

For newcomers to the thread: We have a few people here who talk absolute shit in an attempt to pump ICN, and calvinstm is one of them. Please disregard anything he says.

[BitPotus]

(for newcomers to the thread)

What's on the agenda --

1. Soon, Team Iconomi will announce the result of the first buyback & burn operation (First week of June - most likely during monthly scheduled AMA)...

2. Release of Q2 financial report (we'll most likely see the book value more than doubled!).

3. Announcement of expansion of Beta program (we should see at least hundreds of Beta testers added -- which lead to a drastic increase in net profit that will be used in 2nd buyback).

4. Conclusion of cofound.it ICO (Remember Iconomi owns 10% outright!)

5. 2nd AMA session with Jani (we will most likely get an updated road map as well as progress report)

June is officially the month of Iconomi!

What are you talking about?

Points 1 & 2... Q2 ends at the end of June - this is when the first buyback round ends, and the Q2 report is released.

Point 3... pulled out of your ass.

Point 4... irrelevant.

Point 5... Another chance for Jani to take 10 hours to answer half the AMA, and then abandon it. Woopee!

Updated roadmap? Who says? Where is that information coming from?

Stop talking shit.

For newcomers to the thread: We have a few people here who talk absolute shit in an attempt to pump ICN, and calvinstm is one of them. Please disregard anything he says.

[graviteta]

icn price is going down. What happened?

[BitPotus]

icn price is going down. What happened?

Jani forgot to feed the ICN hamster that pumps the ICN price.






R.I.P little buddy 

[denking]

Time to buy more for me !

[TeamMollyMassive]

IF ICONOMI is the hedge-fund of the future and becomes the leading blockchain hedgefund of the new world in the next 10-20 years we can easily see over 1.2 trillion dollar marketcap. I believe if this coin becomes just that we will all be living on the moon in a decade and long holders/accumulators will be rewarded.

These are not unrealistic numbers if you look at what happened to emerging hedgefunds after 2008. If we see another 2008 but bigger and Blockchains are that safety net then we will see some amazing things happen.

[calvinstm]

icn price is going down. What happened?

No worries.  

1. Fudders tried to induce panic selling and tried to prove a point (back up their claim that investors are jumping ship and leaving ICN in droves).

2. Mendeleev was angry with me, because I foiled his plan of accumulating ICN on the cheap around 430 ~ 450 range.    After my gentle reminder of what's coming up in June, I seriously doubt anyone would sell their ICN cheap now.  

3. Mark my word - we're only weeks away from the official launch (we're at the last leg of beta testing -- majority of ICO investors have already been added). So be smart and HODL!

4. The result of first buyback will definitely be revealed some time this month (not sure about the exact date though, maybe someone can ask Jani during AMA?)

 


PS: Oh, one more thing. Don't EVER get fooled by the 30K sell wall. 

[Mendeleev]

2. Mendeleev was angry with me, because I foiled his plan of accumulating ICN on the cheap around 430 ~ 450 range.    After my gentle reminder of what's coming up in June, I seriously doubt anyone would sell their ICN cheap now.  

I'm not angry with you. I just don't think it's wise to create hype - which is what you try to do. And you were talking about the beginning of June as if it's the end of Q2 - which it isn't.

I will issue a retraction to one thing though:

3. Announcement of expansion of Beta program (we should see at least hundreds of Beta testers added -- which lead to a drastic increase in net profit that will be used in 2nd buyback).

I said you pulled this out your ass. That was wrong. This point is likely accurate, as each month we have been receiving announcements of how many new beta testers were added.

I have no issue with you mentioning positive things - but you're a hype merchant. You know exactly what you're doing.

I don't want any cheap ICN. In fact, if I believe a coin/token will blow up, I tend to buy straight from the market - and I would do the same for ICN if I wanted to buy. I honestly don't have the patience to mess about with my own bids, especially when bots outbid me anyway. I'm too impulsive. If I do put a lower bid on something, I end up losing patience and removing it before the day is up. Yes, that makes me a poor trader - but if I'm going to hold something long term, it doesn't matter.

And also, I've been around since the ICO. Don't you think I'd be done stocking up by now? I've had months of lower prices to do this. Why would I wait until the price has more than doubled, and then set about trying to lower it? It doesn't make sense. If I was smart enough to achieve this, I'd have been smart enough to buy more when it was lower in the first place.

Silly goose.

[Vidale]

So is this another fake project that will never see any actual use and just lives off announcements and moar announcements?