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Author Topic: They/he/she/it is doing it again  (Read 2349 times)
w1R903 (OP)
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April 18, 2013, 02:40:38 AM
 #21

I think more innovative tools provided by the exchanges would help against panic selling.

For example, how about an option to have buy orders that are re-placed automatically 10-20% below the current price every 20 minutes? Same for sell orders -- 20% above the current price, and re-placed every 20 mins.

Bitstamp's "instant order" is a similar process, but they just reposition your bid to the current price every 10 mins.

It would need some tweaking, but they might be popular options, and would help to smooth very fast fluctuations.

.... Actually, I'm going to build this now.

I think any sort of regulation is as the saying I hate goes, "A slipper slope".  The free market needs to be free.  To control selling more than is already done via cashing out is to accept Bitcoin is just a speculation vehicle.  A currency should be able to stand without such vices.  I think we all love Bitcoin but, it needs to keep passing the litmus test.  If it is an experiment meant to work it will in time.

He's not proposing regulation.  In fact, he's proposing a market solution.  For the record, I'm also anti-regulation.  Everyone should always be free to do whatever the hell they want with their coins, for now and forevermore.

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Wuji
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April 18, 2013, 02:44:02 AM
 #22

I think more innovative tools provided by the exchanges would help against panic selling.

For example, how about an option to have buy orders that are re-placed automatically 10-20% below the current price every 20 minutes? Same for sell orders -- 20% above the current price, and re-placed every 20 mins.

Bitstamp's "instant order" is a similar process, but they just reposition your bid to the current price every 10 mins.

It would need some tweaking, but they might be popular options, and would help to smooth very fast fluctuations.

.... Actually, I'm going to build this now.

I think any sort of regulation is as the saying I hate goes, "A slippery slope".  The free market needs to be free.  To control selling more than is already done via cashing out is to accept Bitcoin is just a speculation vehicle.  A currency should be able to stand without such vices.  I think we all love Bitcoin but, it needs to keep passing the litmus test.  If it is an experiment meant to work it will in time.

He's not proposing regulation.  In fact, he's proposing a market solution.  For the record, I'm also anti-regulation.  Everyone should always be free to do whatever the hell they want with their coins, for now and forevermore.

I suppose you are right as the tool would obviously be opt-in.  I just think once you start trying to control panic selling with such tools there could be endless tweaks and more tools.  For a thread that was just talking about manipulation such tools need to be well thought out to not introduce an opportunity for manipulation.
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April 18, 2013, 02:57:53 AM
 #23

No, people would still be welcome to panic sell, if that's what floats their boat...

But when they are choosing an order, they can choose a normal order, or one of the innovative options (with suitably funny names...  "catch a falling knife?"). If the orders ever executed, you'd probably get a good deal, and if they were popular they would help balance the market.

I'm gonna build this into my project....

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April 18, 2013, 03:31:57 AM
 #24

imo Everybody that buys their first bitcoin should get a little info about the advantages of holding as the best strategy as long as you're not used to the fast changing markets and all the speculation going on .[...]
perhaps some kind of info email with the registration or a locked thread would be good.
surely it's everybody's decision when to sell and buy but at least some recommendations for speculating and how to react to some market events would be really helpful. [...]
It would be really cool to push such a dogma-like thread (it could evolve to a little info brochure pdf) for everyone to first read before freaking out on the forums about the values changing every hours.
any feedback?


Well, educating people is always a good idea, but remember that we have people here who are experienced, have been trading or using bitcoin for years, and are regarded as experts. Yet many of these very people still have tunnel vision syndrome and for the past week have been posting "Bitcoin crashing/bitcoin is dead" everytime the price moves down $10, and "OMG Rally starting, sky high ATHs ahead" whenever the price moves up $10.
Some people just never learn Grin

As for market making, one of the recent Keiser Reports had Max talking about the market making function of exchanges and how "real" markets perform functions very similar to what was proposed by posters in this thread. I.E. they have a stash of the very stock they are selling, and place orders as they see fit to "keep things real." If you don't think this is a good idea, simply don't buy on an exchange or don't participate in trading that particular commodity/currency/stock/etc. If you feel a market is being manipulated in a way that you don't agree with, no one's forcing you to participate in that market.
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April 18, 2013, 10:35:54 AM
 #25

imo Everybody that buys their first bitcoin should get a little info about the advantages of holding as the best strategy as long as you're not used to the fast changing markets and all the speculation going on .[...]
perhaps some kind of info email with the registration or a locked thread would be good.
surely it's everybody's decision when to sell and buy but at least some recommendations for speculating and how to react to some market events would be really helpful. [...]
It would be really cool to push such a dogma-like thread (it could evolve to a little info brochure pdf) for everyone to first read before freaking out on the forums about the values changing every hours.
any feedback?


Well, educating people is always a good idea, but remember that we have people here who are experienced, have been trading or using bitcoin for years, and are regarded as experts. Yet many of these very people still have tunnel vision syndrome and for the past week have been posting "Bitcoin crashing/bitcoin is dead" everytime the price moves down $10, and "OMG Rally starting, sky high ATHs ahead" whenever the price moves up $10.
Some people just never learn Grin

As for market making, one of the recent Keiser Reports had Max talking about the market making function of exchanges and how "real" markets perform functions very similar to what was proposed by posters in this thread. I.E. they have a stash of the very stock they are selling, and place orders as they see fit to "keep things real." If you don't think this is a good idea, simply don't buy on an exchange or don't participate in trading that particular commodity/currency/stock/etc. If you feel a market is being manipulated in a way that you don't agree with, no one's forcing you to participate in that market.

perhaps you're right and this suggestion was a bit over the top for the bitcointalk-forums (especially in the speculation section) and would be at a better place directly at the exchanges.
I just thought with the ongoing spreading into the average john doe- mass consumer market every user of bitcoin would be better off with some instruction manual at the start.
But when bitcoin will have succesfully reached that far the value will probably be relatively stable and not that crazy rollercoaster ride we experience in recent times.
thanks for the feedback.

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April 18, 2013, 06:02:20 PM
 #26

Of course this exchange can be manipulated. The 1920s NYSE was manipulated massively and it had a much higher relative market cap. The NYSE is highly regulated because of a full range of shenanigans that occurred in the past.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_manipulation

There have been allegations of phony volume or churning at exchanges/brokerages more recently than the 1920s....

http://algotradingindia.blogspot.com/2011/09/fake-volume-at-united-stock-exchange.html
http://www.business-standard.com/article/markets/sebi-warns-use-on-negligence-112051200011_1.html

I haven't been watching Gox lately. In the past I have certainly noticed bizarre pricing behavior. The wheel need not be reinvented, these types of things are as old as the exchanges themselves.

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