MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]

[Rampion]

When my multiple SEPA withdrawals cleared in just 2 days (July) I reported it, and I received a lot of heat as some said I was lying... But I was not.

On the contrary, my last single SEPA withdrawal was requested on Friday, 23th August and it's still "confirmed" 18 days later. The "up to 2 weeks" looks like BS, and it looks to me that the SEPA queue is is not getting shorter at all.

When did you receive your last withdrawal?  It seems the SEPA queue (esp. the long queue) is getting longer again.  I guess people have dicovered SEPA was very fast for a while.

My last received withdrawal came through before mid-july. And BTW, I did 3 consecutive withdrawals at that time (medium, high 5 figures) and the 3 of them arrived in 2/3 business day, so the explanation about multiple withdrawals and a "long queue" didn't apply just a few weeks ago (beginning of July).

My last requested SEPA withdrawal is still "confirmed" 18 days later.

Honestly, Gox is really in DEEP shit. I vouched for them for months, as I strongly believe they are honest and they wouldn't run with their customers money, but now the situation is getting very very bad. By not pulling their shit together they are losing THOUSANDS of customers, and a HUGE amount of money in trading fees. They have to be desperate now, if you have ever run a business you know that such huge and fast decline in turnover/profits is dramatic for a company.

I guess they are trying very hard to solve their problems, but they are failing big time. Next time I will try the "priority withdrawal" that goes with a 5% fee, but if that option truly works I'd assume they would advertise it a lot more, because at least would give some sense of security to their customers.

[1714049069]

1714049069

[1714049069]

1714049069

[sturle]

I've been waiting for my USD withdraw to USA for exactly 27 days. I've just submitted a new support ticket today. Will update you whenever I receive my transfer.

USD to USSA is very slow, and you can send a thank you letter to a certain "special investigator" at DHS for that.  Withdrawals pose a threat to your homeland security, they say.

[Rampion]

You really succeeded in arbitrage? I tried, but the money comes too slow.

What do you mean by money coming too slow?  You have to keep money on other exchanges and BTC on MtGox at the same time, so you can do the trades at the same time.  If you can't do both trades at the same time, you are doing arbitrage wrong.

I have money on both exchanges but what's the point if I cannot cash out the profit from Gox and with that profit buy more BTC at a lower price on Bitstamp?

The only thing I can do is to buy coins at Bitstamp, send them to Gox and sell them at a "profit" that I cannot realize for weeks/months. When I realize that profit, I can buy way less BTC than I could have bought if I could have transferred the fiat fast (I'm assuming BTC is raising mid-term, as usual). Making a long story short, I will make some $$$ because I'm buying on Biststamp and selling higher on Gox, but I'm losing coins because when Gox's profits arrive and I want to buy more coins the price on Bitstamp is HIGHER than it was on Gox when I sold.

That's makes arbitrage pretty pointless to me - and I guess than for many others too, otherwise there would be no constant and big spread between the exchanges.

[sturle]

You really succeeded in arbitrage? I tried, but the money comes too slow.

What do you mean by money coming too slow?  You have to keep money on other exchanges and BTC on MtGox at the same time, so you can do the trades at the same time.  If you can't do both trades at the same time, you are doing arbitrage wrong.

I have money on both exchanges but what's the point if I cannot cash out the profit from Gox and with that profit buy more BTC at a lower price on Bitstamp?

You already made your profit, and cashing out should be faster than this. :-/  Have you asked support about this?  Perhaps the long queue works differently?  Have you cancelled any withdrawal during this period?

The only thing I can do is to buy coins at Bitstamp, send them to Gox and sell them at a "profit" that I cannot realize for weeks/months. When I realize that profit, I can buy way less BTC than I could have bought if I could have transferred the fiat fast (I'm assuming BTC is raising mid-term, as usual). Making a long story short, I will make some $$$ because I'm buying on Biststamp and selling higher on Gox, but I'm losing coins because when Gox's profits arrive and I want to buy more coins the price on Bitstamp is HIGHER than it was on Gox when I sold.

Yep.  Arbitrage is risk free profit.  Keeping BTC is not, since the price may fall.  If you think the BTC price will go up, you should keep your BTC instead of selling.

That's makes arbitrage pretty pointless to me - and I guess than for many others too, otherwise there would be no constant and big spread between the exchanges.

I aim for at least 12%, and this still happens when a rally is initiated (action always start at MtGox).  Lower than that isn't worth the trouble.  I aim for one withdrawal per two weeks, and am not in a hurry.

[prophetx]

Some of this information is very sensitive and some is useless.  E.g. oldest withdrawal in the queue.  If you intentionally DDoS the withdrawal queue by doing many small withdrawals instead of one large, you are placed far back in the queue every time a withdrawal is processed.  This is only fair.  Some of this is very market sensitive.  E.g. total deposits.  (Which are in many different currencies, btw, not just USD.)  They should not publish this, and if they did it would mean instant death as an exchange.  Large investors must depend on MtGox not publishing those numbers.  MtGox has very a very strict privacy policy as well.  It is important to ensure that no private information can leak out.  I can't see any other exchanges publish those numbers either.

The only important number to most people is how long they have to wait for their money if they withdraw today, and how the queue is organized.  I have provided the know figures in this thread.  It is collected from various sources, and I wish MtGox would make similar information available.

I disagree. I do not see anything wrong with aggregate data transparency as other financial institutions do this already.  So, what is your logical rationale for instant death an an exchange providing such figures?  

If I want to buy 30k BTC, MtGox is the only exchange where i can do that at a reasonable price.  I would transfer 5 mill USD to MtGox to make mu purchase.  If it became known to other players that someone just transferred 5 mill USD to MtGox, they would make sure to buy first.  So MtGox would be useless for this purchase if they were that transparent.  I would go to one of the less transparent exchanges (i.e. ANY other excahnge) instead.  So would all other large players.  MtGox would lose their large players and die in a few days.

ah ok you are assuming real time reporting of stats like that, if they are delayed then it becomes a non-issue

[Serpens66]

I have 5 open SEPA transfers. 3 of them about 200€, one 400€ and one of 800€.  I ordered the transfers: 2013/07/30 , 2013/07/30 , 2013/07/31 ,2013/08/12 and 2013/08/14. One order from 2013/07/26 about 200€ I got after 3 weeks.

I didn't have to contact support.  MagicalTux explained it on #mtgox today:

Code:

13:30 < jouke> Just received an answer on my ticket: "We were bound to certain 
               withdrawal limits per day which forces the requests to pile up 
               in long queue. We suggest you to cancel all your pending 
               withdrawal request and make a new combined single request. So 
               that it be processed faster."
13:32 <@MagicalTux> remember one thing
13:32 <@MagicalTux> if you did multiple requests, only one can be processed 
                    every ~20 days

In short: Cancel all your tiny withdrawals and merge them into one.  It will be processed much faster.

UPDATE:
I got my money today, 1800€.  So my last finished 3 withdrawals:
1800€ : 26. August  ---->  10. September
217€ :  26. July ----> 19. August
200€: 23. July ---->  25. July

So I can confirm, that it's like one SEPA every ~20 days (from the day one SEPA was finished, not canceled)

[S3052]

You really succeeded in arbitrage? I tried, but the money comes too slow.

What do you mean by money coming too slow?  You have to keep money on other exchanges and BTC on MtGox at the same time, so you can do the trades at the same time.  If you can't do both trades at the same time, you are doing arbitrage wrong.

I have money on both exchanges but what's the point if I cannot cash out the profit from Gox and with that profit buy more BTC at a lower price on Bitstamp?

The only thing I can do is to buy coins at Bitstamp, send them to Gox and sell them at a "profit" that I cannot realize for weeks/months. When I realize that profit, I can buy way less BTC than I could have bought if I could have transferred the fiat fast (I'm assuming BTC is raising mid-term, as usual). Making a long story short, I will make some $$$ because I'm buying on Biststamp and selling higher on Gox, but I'm losing coins because when Gox's profits arrive and I want to buy more coins the price on Bitstamp is HIGHER than it was on Gox when I sold.

That's makes arbitrage pretty pointless to me - and I guess than for many others too, otherwise there would be no constant and big spread between the exchanges.

A less greedy solution is withdrawing BTC or if you have USD: buying BTC at mtgox and then in both cases withdraw all BTC from them. Those BTCs could then be put in safe storage and the risk of losing them is much lower than leaving them at Mtgox in my pov

[Rampion]

I have 5 open SEPA transfers. 3 of them about 200€, one 400€ and one of 800€.  I ordered the transfers: 2013/07/30 , 2013/07/30 , 2013/07/31 ,2013/08/12 and 2013/08/14. One order from 2013/07/26 about 200€ I got after 3 weeks.

I didn't have to contact support.  MagicalTux explained it on #mtgox today:

Code:

13:30 < jouke> Just received an answer on my ticket: "We were bound to certain 
               withdrawal limits per day which forces the requests to pile up 
               in long queue. We suggest you to cancel all your pending 
               withdrawal request and make a new combined single request. So 
               that it be processed faster."
13:32 <@MagicalTux> remember one thing
13:32 <@MagicalTux> if you did multiple requests, only one can be processed 
                    every ~20 days

In short: Cancel all your tiny withdrawals and merge them into one.  It will be processed much faster.

UPDATE:
I got my money today, 1800€.  So my last finished 3 withdrawals:
1800€ : 26. August  ---->  10. September
217€ :  26. July ----> 19. August
200€: 23. July ---->  25. July

So I can confirm, that it's like one SEPA every ~20 days (from the day one SEPA was finished, not canceled)

I requested a SEPA withdrawal BEFORE you did (23th August) and still nothing from Gox's side. Here you have again the proof that "queue organized in request order" is utter bullshit.

[Serpens66]

I requested a SEPA withdrawal BEFORE you did (23th August) and still nothing from Gox's side. Here you have again the proof that "queue organized in request order" is utter bullshit.

If you have no finished withdrawal in the last ~20 days, you are right.

[sturle]

I requested a SEPA withdrawal BEFORE you did (23th August) and still nothing from Gox's side. Here you have again the proof that "queue organized in request order" is utter bullshit.

If you have no finished withdrawal in the last ~20 days, you are right.

Cancelled withdrawals may count as well.  It did in my case.

[Rampion]

I requested a SEPA withdrawal BEFORE you did (23th August) and still nothing from Gox's side. Here you have again the proof that "queue organized in request order" is utter bullshit.

If you have no finished withdrawal in the last ~20 days, you are right.

I have had no finished withdrawal in the last 2 months.

In fact I had not requested any withdrawal since the first week of July.

[sturle]

I requested a SEPA withdrawal BEFORE you did (23th August) and still nothing from Gox's side. Here you have again the proof that "queue organized in request order" is utter bullshit.

If you have no finished withdrawal in the last ~20 days, you are right.

I have had no finished withdrawal in the last 2 months.

In fact I had not requested any withdrawal since the first week of July.

What was the response from support?  There is obviously something wrong.  Same account as last time, btw?

[Rampion]

I requested a SEPA withdrawal BEFORE you did (23th August) and still nothing from Gox's side. Here you have again the proof that "queue organized in request order" is utter bullshit.

If you have no finished withdrawal in the last ~20 days, you are right.

I have had no finished withdrawal in the last 2 months.

In fact I had not requested any withdrawal since the first week of July.

What was the response from support?  There is obviously something wrong.  Same account as last time, btw?

Honestly, I just opened a ticket, I didn't do it before because I was hoping the "up to 2 weeks" for SEPA was going to be respected as they always did in the past.

And yes, its obviously the same account. I only have one account with Gox, fully verified with original docs sent, etc. etc. etc.

[sturle]

the only way that MtGox will change their behavior would be if most customers would leave them completely, trading volume falls below 1000 and then 100 BTC per day...
but as long as so many people keep their funds there, they can carry on with this nontransparent communication

This is not likely to happen, because:
1. MtGox is still the safest exchange with noticeable volume.
2. MtGox is the only exchange with a well functioning multi-currency market.  This adds an extra dimension to trading.
3. MtGox has by far the deepest books and best liquidity.  You can trade large amounts without moving the price too far.
4. MtGox is where all the action happens.  Other exchanges only react to the movements on MtGox.
5. MtGox still has > 50% market share.

I still do most of my trading on MtGox due to 1, 2 and 4.  Especially 2.  Mastering it can be very profitable.  I have added three zeroes to my initial investment since I first started to experiment with it 1.5 years ago.  This isn't possible on any other exchange.  You may be able do something similar by trading on multiple exchanges, but at a much higher risk.

[id10tothe9]

the only way that MtGox will change their behavior would be if most customers would leave them completely, trading volume falls below 1000 and then 100 BTC per day...
but as long as so many people keep their funds there, they can carry on with this nontransparent communication

This is not likely to happen, because:
1. MtGox is still the safest exchange with noticeable volume.
2. MtGox is the only exchange with a well functioning multi-currency market.  This adds an extra dimension to trading.
3. MtGox has by far the deepest books and best liquidity.  You can trade large amounts without moving the price too far.
4. MtGox is where all the action happens.  Other exchanges only react to the movements on MtGox.
5. MtGox still has > 50% market share.

I still do most of my trading on MtGox due to 1, 2 and 4.  Especially 2.  Mastering it can be very profitable.  I have added three zeroes to my initial investment since I first started to experiment with it 1.5 years ago.  This isn't possible on any other exchange.  You may be able do something similar by trading on multiple exchanges, but at a much higher risk.

hm.. how can mastering 2. be very profitable? GIMMI YAR SECRETS! 

[Rampion]

Just wanted to add that I always knew that the "queue in receival order" criteria was BS, because when in July I was receiving SEPA transfers in just 2/3 business days there were a lot of complaints about very long delays in SEPA withdrawals. I entertained the idea that Gox was giving priority to bigger withdrawals, but now I see is not the case as my withdrawal is more than double than the one that someone reported to have requested on August, 26th and received today.

In any case it looks to me that Gox is blatantly lying on pretty much everything. I don't buy they are "overwhelming" the biggest bank in Japan with their ridiculous volume, and I don't buy the withdrawals are processed I  FIFO order.

[zeta1]

Jesus Gox needs to get it's sh*t together

[davidspitzer]

Here is the response I received from MTGOX

MY original Set of Questions:

Davidaspitzer, Sep 10 06:05 (JST):
I run a legal Blog (BTCLAG.org) and a lot of my readers have asked me what I know about the seemingly extraordinary Lag in getting USD out of MTGOX. I replied to them "I don't know, let me me try it out" So I sold (1) one bitcoin on the 20 of August and transferred the resulting USD balance to my confirmed US checking account linked to my MTGOX account. It is now 20 days later. So my question is what is up? I am not a banking expert but wire transfers are all automated through computers so I don't really understand the standing explanation of backup, as it would infer that the banks are unable to process an increased volume from just your small percentage of transactions, but seamlessly process Billions of other transactions from other sources in just a few days. I have heard whispering of floating cash after your seizure by the US government. There is also eroding consumer confidence due to your alleged two week hiatus to improve USD cash withdrawal times which to many outside observers was merely a cash hold out to compensate for the account confiscation by the US Government. I am actually a big supporter of your service and hope that you can sort these issues out, but the huge price spread for btc on your site as compared to every other exchange would anecdotally indicate that people are cashing out their cash positions and buying and moving BTC to other sites, which is artificially creating a demand bubble on MTGOX for BTC. I humbly suggest that you will need to be more transparent with your situation as the Bitcoin community is a fairly saavy and impatient group as a whole, who will simply move their business elsewhere

RESPONSE

Hello David,

Thanks for you support towards MtGox and we really appreciate the same. Currently there is an unusual delay in processing the withdrawals since the banks could not match the pace of BTC transactions. We have stringent limits imposed on the number of withdrawals that we could process in a given day and this is not mainly that MtGox is left without funds., Honestly MtGox has enough reserves and we request not to incline towards any false speculations that are being spin against the company as such. We are working along, almost round the clock to establish more banking partners globally and to ease the way the transactions are being carried out to our customers.

Definitely we are expecting to revert back the situation to normal. Please be assured and we are thankful for the support towards us during these hard times.

Best regards,

Mt.Gox Team
https://www.mtgox.com

[Attention: Please protect your account using OTP to ensure that your funds are safe and secure. Failing to do so makes your information vulnerable to hackers.
Please visit https://mtgox.com/security]



My Follow Up:

Why were you able to serve the volume before but now are unable to? I have heard mentioned somewhere that you can only process 10 swift transfers a day - is that true? I have never heard of such a limitation but then again I am not a banking expert. If it is limited to 10 a day how was this never an issue until just after the recent issues with FINCEN? Surely there were more then 10 requests for bank/wire transfers prior to the abolition of DWOLLA.

[Rampion]

Currently there is an unusual delay in processing the withdrawals since the banks could not match the pace of BTC transactions.

Really?

WHAT A JOKE.

[davidspitzer]

Currently there is an unusual delay in processing the withdrawals since the banks could not match the pace of BTC transactions.

Really?

WHAT A JOKE.

That one set off my BS alarms - I think if you are going to make such a bold statement that a little more substantive evidence and explanation is needed. "Hey, my pet dragon ate my deposit slip, that's why i cant pay my bills - hmmm ok  - I think I am going to need to see this alleged dragon"

Seriously a certified letter from their banks stating that they are the bottleneck and unable to process MTGOX's volume would be a nice start