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Author Topic: MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]  (Read 858138 times)
Tzupy
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March 07, 2018, 01:38:51 PM
 #6861

The Trustee has sold 35,841 BTC and 34,008 BCH, claims he did it to "secure a certain amount of money for distribution".
http://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/20180307_report.pdf

Not bad securing the funds for the "as promised" reparations; regardless, I wonder what happened to the other dozen of forks... (BTG, BTX, BTD... here's a list: https://bitcoinforks.io/)
Granted, some of them are scams, and / or low volume, or even peanuts now... but I would want my share if they don't mind, just in case BTC goes to 100K.  Cool

IMO pretty poor performance by the Trustee. He sold BTC at an average of ~10 k$, while median price between December and February is about 13 k$.
He also shouldn't have sold so much, because the approved fiat claims were only ~42 million $. He sold enough to cover all approved claims, fiat and BTC ones.
That's because the MtGox estate is still operating under bankruptcy rules, and all approved claims are in JPY.
About the forks, so far he has only secured the BCH, but no other forks, and missed all airdrops.

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March 07, 2018, 04:00:33 PM
 #6862

The Trustee has sold 35,841 BTC and 34,008 BCH, claims he did it to "secure a certain amount of money for distribution".
http://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/20180307_report.pdf

Not bad securing the funds for the "as promised" reparations; regardless, I wonder what happened to the other dozen of forks... (BTG, BTX, BTD... here's a list: https://bitcoinforks.io/)
Granted, some of them are scams, and / or low volume, or even peanuts now... but I would want my share if they don't mind, just in case BTC goes to 100K.  Cool

IMO pretty poor performance by the Trustee. He sold BTC at an average of ~10 k$, while median price between December and February is about 13 k$.
He also shouldn't have sold so much, because the approved fiat claims were only ~42 million $. He sold enough to cover all approved claims, fiat and BTC ones.
That's because the MtGox estate is still operating under bankruptcy rules, and all approved claims are in JPY.
About the forks, so far he has only secured the BCH, but no other forks, and missed all airdrops.

It's not right to attribute malice to his deeds, but as far as it concerns me, I'd prefer my coins' private keys (since they can now cover everyone's coins). The previous decision of fiat reparations should be altered. I didn't have many coins held in there, but this is a bad joke for people with lot of coins trapped. So, I agree. Pretty poor performance so far.

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Ivor Biggun
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March 07, 2018, 07:14:54 PM
 #6863

The Trustee has sold 35,841 BTC and 34,008 BCH, claims he did it to "secure a certain amount of money for distribution".
http://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/20180307_report.pdf

Not bad securing the funds for the "as promised" reparations; regardless, I wonder what happened to the other dozen of forks... (BTG, BTX, BTD... here's a list: https://bitcoinforks.io/)
Granted, some of them are scams, and / or low volume, or even peanuts now... but I would want my share if they don't mind, just in case BTC goes to 100K.  Cool

IMO pretty poor performance by the Trustee. He sold BTC at an average of ~10 k$, while median price between December and February is about 13 k$.


The cryptsy trustee also dumped the coins for a shit price. He's set a precedent for all future trustees to just dump them all and halve the market value.
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March 07, 2018, 08:33:46 PM
Merited by freedomno1 (1)
 #6864

Hold ma beer... Grin

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vapourminer
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March 07, 2018, 10:09:59 PM
 #6865


had to laugh at that. not funny really but oh man..

mtgox: the disaster that will not  die, it just keeps handing out pain.

PS had a gox account back in the day but had nothing in it when it went down.
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March 08, 2018, 12:51:20 AM
 #6866

Are the paybacks to be made only in JPY now? At the time I made my claim, I specified BTC. I made the Kracken account, etc.

Unwanted BTC? Dispose of them safely here: 
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March 08, 2018, 01:58:48 PM
 #6867

Are the paybacks to be made only in JPY now? At the time I made my claim, I specified BTC. I made the Kracken account, etc.

Yes, that's what the plan is. Meanwhile, guys this is not over... Undecided
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-07/bitcoins-tokyo-whale-sells-400m-bitcoin-bitcoin-cash

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Tzupy
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March 08, 2018, 05:24:40 PM
 #6868

Are the paybacks to be made only in JPY now? At the time I made my claim, I specified BTC. I made the Kracken account, etc.

Under bankruptcy rules, only in JPY. If Civil Rehabilitation gets approved, fiat creditors 100% back in JPY, BTC creditors about 4.5% in JPY, and the rest possibly in BTC.

PS. I am disappointed no one merited my "Liquidator Brunt Kobayashi" post, I thought it was funny... Roll Eyes

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Micky25
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March 09, 2018, 07:28:16 AM
 #6869

Are the paybacks to be made only in JPY now? At the time I made my claim, I specified BTC. I made the Kracken account, etc.

Under bankruptcy rules, only in JPY. If Civil Rehabilitation gets approved, fiat creditors 100% back in JPY, BTC creditors about 4.5% in JPY, and the rest possibly in BTC.

PS. I am disappointed no one merited my "Liquidator Brunt Kobayashi" post, I thought it was funny... Roll Eyes

I gave you one Wink

The adrenalin rush this guy must have had, seeing the stash diminish by hundreds of millions $ value in a couple of days...
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March 09, 2018, 07:57:46 AM
 #6870

I have my doubts, but just posting here for the sake of argument. Let's hope he's correct.
Quote
Yuji Nakamura

Verified account
 
@ynakamura56
 7h7 hours ago
More
People are way off on Gox trustee:
1) He dumped just enough to cover ALL jpy liabilities
2) Confirmed Gox could exit bankruptcy (civil rehab)
3) Has very passive track record

Now that his ass (liabilities) covered, he will just wait for court ruling on civil rehab. No more dumps

3 replies 12 retweets 23 likes
Reply 3   Retweet 12   /quote]

https://twitter.com/ynakamura56/status/971911070691422209


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March 09, 2018, 08:08:02 AM
 #6871

Hold ma beer... Grin


Shakes head if there are any doubts that Mtgox is the gift that keeps on giving this is the icing on the cake ha-ha
I appreciate his sense of humor and the humor that the second largest hack on an exchange coincheck was also in Japan.
Albeit at least that one is still functioning.

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March 09, 2018, 11:31:21 AM
 #6872

Summary of Questions & Answers by the Trustee, copied from the mtgox-creditors site:

Q1. What is the meaning of the following terms stated in the examination report submitted by the examiner on February 28, 2018?

– “the bankruptcy creditors (especially those having monetary claims corresponding to bankruptcy claims) who filed proofs of claims in the bankruptcy proceedings of Mt. Gox”;

– “the benefits already expected to be obtained in terms of the bankruptcy proceedings”; and

– “measures taken to ensure the benefits of the bankruptcy creditors”.

A1. It is the examiner that wrote the examination report. Therefore, we [the bankruptcy trustee] cannot answer regarding its contents. We will discuss and consider the future direction with the bankruptcy court.

Q2. Have you made a specific plan about the “measures taken to ensure the benefits of the bankruptcy creditors” stated in the examination report? Do you intend to make any effort for the commencement of civil rehabilitation proceedings as the bankruptcy trustee?

A2. We will discuss and consider the “measures taken to ensure the benefits of the bankruptcy creditors” with the bankruptcy court. We understand the examiner’s concerns regarding the issue. Therefore, we are ready to hear suggestions from creditors.

Q3. When the content of the “measures taken to ensure the benefits of the bankruptcy creditors” has been decided, will we have the opportunity to receive an explanation beforehand as creditors? Will I have a chance to state my opinion as a major creditor?

A3. We will notify the creditors of our plan once it is determined. We will hear the creditors’ opinions, and we would appreciate it if you could send us your written opinion.

Q4. When and how did you sell BTC and BCH? What was the difference between the sales figures for BTC and BCH? Have you obtained any information from the U.S. Department of Justice on the disappearance of BTC?

A4. We sold them at the market price through the cryptocurrency exchange service provider from December 2017 through February 2018. The difference between the sales figures for BTC and BCH was just the timing of suspending sales; therefore, we did not have any particular intention. We have not obtained any information from the U.S. Department of Justice.

Q5. Please explain the current situation concerning the bankruptcy claims assessment procedure applied for by CoinLab, Inc. Do you have any plans to pursue the liability of officers?

A5. We do not have any specific ideas on settling the case for the time being, but we may consider that depending on the future situation. We did consider suing Mr. Karpelès, but now it does not seem to be productive because he has gone bankrupt.

Q6. Why don’t you distribute funds to the creditors even though there is enough cash in the bankruptcy estate?

A6 We obtained the cash recently by selling BTC and BCH. With respect to distribution, there is an issue concerning assessing the amount of BTC creditors’ claims; therefore, it is difficult to determine whether proceeding with the distribution process would be desirable for the creditors.

Q7. I think it is unjust to distribute the remaining assets to the shareholders of Mt. Gox. Why don’t you proceed with the civil rehabilitation proceedings as Mt. Gox’s bankruptcy trustee?

A7. We apologize if we have previously provided a misleading explanation, but we do not oppose transferring these bankruptcy proceedings to civil rehabilitation proceedings. We understand the examiner’s concerns on the issue; however, it is the Tokyo District Court that has to decide whether to commence civil rehabilitation proceedings.

Q8. I think it has taken far too long to proceed with the bankruptcy proceedings. Is this due to the bankruptcy trustee neglecting its duties?

A8. We recently obtained more than 40 billion yen (400 million dollars ) by selling BTC and BCH. With respect to distribution, there is an issue concerning assessing the amount of BTC creditors’ claims; therefore, it is difficult to determine whether proceeding with the distribution process would be desirable for the creditors.

Q9. I have never heard about the sale of BTC and BCH. Why did you sell them when the market price of BTC crashed? Why did you sell them in such a hurry? Is selling BTC and other assets part of the “measures taken to ensure the benefits of the bankruptcy creditors” as pointed out by the examiner?

A9. From the outset of the bankruptcy proceedings, we informed all relevant parties that we were going to sell BTC and BCH at the appropriate time. We discussed this with the Tokyo District Court and decided when we should sell them. Some creditors were of the opinion that we should sell BTC and BCH soon. We believe that obtaining a lot of funds made it possible for us to take the “measures taken to ensure the benefits of the bankruptcy creditors”.

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March 10, 2018, 06:52:56 AM
 #6873

A9. From the outset of the bankruptcy proceedings, we informed all relevant parties that we were going to sell BTC and BCH at the appropriate time. We discussed this with the Tokyo District Court and decided when we should sell them. Some creditors were of the opinion that we should sell BTC and BCH soon. We believe that obtaining a lot of funds made it possible for us to take the “measures taken to ensure the benefits of the bankruptcy creditors”.

I wonder who all relevant parties are, is there a list?

As a creditor I don't remember being asked my opinion if it was appropriate to crash the market. Was it in my benefit as a bankruptcy creditor? No.

Who decided on how to sell these BTC and BCH, why not use an OTC transaction?
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March 10, 2018, 08:52:47 AM
 #6874

According to this guy here, we're done dumping.
Quote
Matt Odell@matt_odell
4/ Site setup for tracking the remaining 162k bitcoin under Mt Gox trustee's control: http://gaelb.alwaysdata.net/MTgox_watch_CW/index.html

Now that he has successfully sold enough bitcoin & bitcoin cash to cover the ~$414M owed to claimants, he is probably done selling. No coins have moved since Feb 5th.
https://twitter.com/matt_odell/status/972193512849584129



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March 10, 2018, 01:24:32 PM
Merited by STT (1)
 #6875

A9. From the outset of the bankruptcy proceedings, we informed all relevant parties that we were going to sell BTC and BCH at the appropriate time. We discussed this with the Tokyo District Court and decided when we should sell them. Some creditors were of the opinion that we should sell BTC and BCH soon. We believe that obtaining a lot of funds made it possible for us to take the “measures taken to ensure the benefits of the bankruptcy creditors”.

I wonder who all relevant parties are, is there a list?

As a creditor I don't remember being asked my opinion if it was appropriate to crash the market. Was it in my benefit as a bankruptcy creditor? No.

Who decided on how to sell these BTC and BCH, why not use an OTC transaction?


I certainly don't feel like a "relevant party", but as screwed party. But we should be aware that he could have screwed us much harder. Roll Eyes
About his decision to market dump, Jesse Powell wrote this:

For the record, Kraken was asked many months ago for advice on how to sell a large block of coins. Our answer was:

1. don't sell coins
2. If you have to, do it with an auction, which Kraken can facilitate
3. If you want to do it more privately, let Kraken's OTC desk broker it for you

We were explicit about not dumping a large amount of coins on the market. Unfortunately, it looks like the trustee made their own decision or was taking advice from elsewhere -- maybe whatever exchange they dumped those coins on. We had zero knowledge of these sales happening until it was announced at the recent creditors' meeting. Unfortunately, we have no visibility in to where, how or why the trustee sold those coins, nor whether any precautions were taken to prevent front running or self-dealing. Hopefully, the trustee will make it clear what their process was and put the questions to rest.

https://www.reddit.com/r/mtgoxinsolvency/comments/82ykgu/re_the_dumpening/

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March 12, 2018, 10:52:51 AM
 #6876

I certainly don't feel like a "relevant party", but as screwed party. But we should be aware that he could have screwed us much harder. Roll Eyes

Maybe next time they can just sell off 100% of the altcoins and not any of the BTC ;-)
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March 12, 2018, 03:15:54 PM
 #6877

It's not right to attribute malice to his deeds, but as far as it concerns me, I'd prefer my coins' private keys (since they can now cover everyone's coins). The previous decision of fiat reparations should be altered. I didn't have many coins held in there, but this is a bad joke for people with lot of coins trapped. So, I agree. Pretty poor performance so far.

That really is a good point.  You should receive the private key to enable access to the forked chains.  Surely the liquidation will involve consideration of all possible asset value via forks or it is negligent.

Unfortunately incompetence is far more common then malice like you say, which doesnt make it any better if they do ignore value that way.   I would be surprised if that were the case, they surely have advice on such matters.

 BTC is a token and they are liquidating it into dollars which is not the same but perhaps all they can achieve now.  'fire sale'

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April 04, 2018, 04:25:43 PM
 #6878

In case you missed it:
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/89o171/im_mark_karpel%C3%A8s_exceo_of_bankrupt_mtgox_ask_me/
Quote
Dear community,

Many of you know or remember me, especially recently since the MtGox bankruptcy has been allegedly linked with Bitcoin price drops in December 2017 to February 2018. Since taking over the most active Bitcoin exchange in 2011, I ran MtGox until filing for civil rehabilitation on February 28th 2014 (which became bankruptcy less than 2 months later) because a large amount of Bitcoins went missing. Since then, four years have passed, and MtGox is still in bankruptcy today. I’ve been arrested, released under bail after a little less than one year, and am now trying to assist MtGox getting into civil rehabilitation.

I did my best trying to grow the ecosystem by running the biggest exchange at the time. It had big problems but still managed to hang in there. For a while. A quite long while, even, while the rest of the ecosystem caught up. At the end of the day, the methods I chose to try to get MtGox out of its trouble ended up being insufficient, insufficiently executed, or plain wrong.

I know I didn't handle the last, stressful days of the outdrawn and painful Gox collapse very well. I can only be humble about that in hindsight. Once again, I’m sorry.

Japanese bankruptcy law has a particularly nasty outcome here, and I want to address this up front. As creditors claims were registered, those claims were registered in the valuation of Japanese Yen on the bankruptcy date. That's the only way Japanese bankruptcy law can work (most bankruptcy laws around the world operate this way for that matter). This means that the claims can be paid back in full, and there will still be over 160,000 bitcoin and bitcoin cash in assets in the Gox estate. The way bankruptcy law works is that if there are any assets remaining after the creditors have been paid in full, then those assets are distributed to shareholders as part of the liquidation.

That's the only way any bankruptcy law can reasonably work. And yet, in this case, it produces an egregiously distasteful outcome in that the shareholders of MtGox would walk away with the value of over 160,000 bitcoin as a result of what happened.

I don't want this. I don't want this billion dollars. From day one I never expected to receive anything from this bankruptcy. The fact that today this is a possibility is an aberration and I believe it is my responsibility to make sure it doesn’t happen. One of the ways to do this would be civil rehabilitation, and as it seems most creditors agree with this, I am doing my best to help make it happen. I do not want to become instantly rich. I do not ask for forgiveness. I just want to see this end as soon as possible with everyone receiving their share of what they had on MtGox so everyone, myself included, can get some closure.

I’m an engineer at heart. I want to build things. I like seeing what I build being useful, and people being happy using what I build. My drive, from day one, has been to push the limits of what is technically possible, and this is the main reason I liked and have been involved with Bitcoin in the first place. When I took over MtGox, I never imagined things would end this way and I am forever sorry for everything that’s taken place and all the effect it had on everyone involved.

Hopefully, I can make what I’ve learned in this experience useful to the community as a whole, so there can at least be something positive in the end.

Ask me anything you like.

Chaos could be a form of intelligence we cannot yet understand its complexity.
WaffleMaster
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April 04, 2018, 08:05:33 PM
 #6879

Wow that's pretty amazing to be honest. That 1.3 billion dollars could actually be shared across all holders who lost it sounds like. Mark would likely still receive a decent amount, because exchanges take their fees in BTC, so his/MtGox's account would likely have a decent share of the money to claim back.

Let's be honest, he's probably doing this so the Yakuza don't make him disappear  Grin Grin Grin
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April 04, 2018, 09:28:39 PM
 #6880

Wow that's pretty amazing to be honest. That 1.3 billion dollars could actually be shared across all holders who lost it sounds like. Mark would likely still receive a decent amount, because exchanges take their fees in BTC, so his/MtGox's account would likely have a decent share of the money to claim back.

Let's be honest, he's probably doing this so the Yakuza don't make him disappear  Grin Grin Grin

Karpeles wrote on Reddit that he has no MtGox claim, so even if there were about 100k BTC from fees, he doesn't expect any financial reward  from Civil Rehabilitation (I specifically asked him some time ago).
I suspect he would like CR to succeed, currently available funds be distributed, and then later he might recover some of the stolen BTC from Vinnik.

Sometimes, if it looks too bullish, it's actually bearish
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