MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]

[sturle]

SEPA transfers take D+1 days, not minutes.  The explanation for SEPA delays can be found earlier in this thread (someone even called their bank to hear it from them), and everyone else are bored by hearing it over and over.  SEPA has been delayed for the same reason since they changed to the Polish bank more than a year ago.

Let's make a bet - 1 BTC - that in 30 days time nothing will change.

Regarding SEPA, yes.  Their  limit will not change until they have completed their registration as a financial institution.

Regarding other fiat withdrawal option, I expect most of their problems will be resolved within a month, and the fastest fiat withdrawal option (except domestic JPY and manual express international wire) to take less than a week before Christmas.  I'm willing to bet 1 BTC on this.

sturle, you can send my 1 BTC to 1Hk5ieasp6o2k2LpUFjzqjKV8Auj3FUxAU

I understand that as an acceptance of the bet on my terms.  Send 1 BTC to 1Ls8R9Guguq51r1ok2xachi7XA79kkA4jQ if I win.  (Note that I agreed with you regarding SEPA and the 30 days.)

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[joesmoe2012]

It looks like my SEPA from 9/13 has gone from "Confirmed" to "Pending" so I guess it may be on its way!

So looks like we are up to 9/13 for the SEPA transfers currently.

[Savior]

It looks like my SEPA from 9/13 has gone from "Confirmed" to "Pending" so I guess it may be on its way!

So looks like we are up to 9/13 for the SEPA transfers currently.

Nice, looks like they used a looong time on that day, hope it was because of an extraordinary amount of withdraws. Ill let you guys know when they progress 21 sept.

[Nagle]

If you want to do that, there are time limits on how long you can claim against a forfeiture. Get legal advice fast.

If you were to sue Mt. Gox in Delaware small claims court, and win (or they don't show up), you'd have a US judgement against them. (Mt. Gox created a legal presence in Delaware so they could register with FinCen. That provides an entity you can sue in Delaware.)

Then you can try to collect from funds the US Government is holding. According to Japanese law, if Mt. Gox is a Payment Services Agency, you own the money; you're not just a creditor of Mt. Gox. That puts you in a stronger position to claim against a forfeiture.  Again, get legal advice.

I'd have to believe that the statute of limitations does not make it imperative that I file with all haste. 

The rules under forfeiture law are tough. You may only have 60 days after the forfeiture.

Unless the court for good cause sets a different time, the claim must be filed: ...
(C) if notice was not published and direct notice was not sent to the claimant or the claimant's attorney" ...
If the property was not in the government's possession, custody, or control when the complaint was filed ... 60 days after process was executed on the property under Rule G(3).

It may already be too late to file against the Dwolla forfeiture. Talk to a lawyer.

[tvbcof]

If you want to do that, there are time limits on how long you can claim against a forfeiture. Get legal advice fast.

If you were to sue Mt. Gox in Delaware small claims court, and win (or they don't show up), you'd have a US judgement against them. (Mt. Gox created a legal presence in Delaware so they could register with FinCen. That provides an entity you can sue in Delaware.)

Then you can try to collect from funds the US Government is holding. According to Japanese law, if Mt. Gox is a Payment Services Agency, you own the money; you're not just a creditor of Mt. Gox. That puts you in a stronger position to claim against a forfeiture.  Again, get legal advice.

I'd have to believe that the statute of limitations does not make it imperative that I file with all haste. 

The rules under forfeiture law are tough. You may only have 60 days after the forfeiture.

Unless the court for good cause sets a different time, the claim must be filed: ...
(C) if notice was not published and direct notice was not sent to the claimant or the claimant's attorney" ...
If the property was not in the government's possession, custody, or control when the complaint was filed ... 60 days after process was executed on the property under Rule G(3).

It may already be too late to file against the Dwolla forfeiture. Talk to a lawyer.

Seems ambiguous.  The Dwolla forfeiture happened even before I converted BTC to USD (or instructed Mt. Gox to do so more accurately) so I cannot see a specific claim to that money.  The best bet would seem to be that the USG would be prone to handing out that money to people who have some general and documented claim against Mt. Gox prior to deciding how to handle the remaining balance.  This I would not anticipate for years, but having something submitted and sitting there wouldn't hurt.

I'm not going to rush right out and retain an attorney for a piddly $5k, particularly since I would not likely see a return on the not insignificant investment (in time and money) for some years at least, and probably never.  I do however remain interested in a group effort where the cost burden is shared and the time/hassle factor is significantly reduced.  Not interested enough to actually attempt to form a coalition however.  I made some efforts at doing so related to the Instawallet/Paymium (supposed) hack and theft, and they went nowhere.

[GreekGeek]

Almost 4 weeks now for my 10K (SEPA)

The funny thing is that they are (still) saying on the withdrawal page that SEPA may take up to two weeks 
with BOLD fonds

what's wrong with MtGox?
why can't they find another Bank in the EU to do their business (if that is the problem)


I start to fill that they have a huge problem
and the sooner it pops the better for bitcoin in general

[medicine]

Even though it does say up to two weeks or whatever on the site, the customer service reps are being honest in emails. 

I got this back from a direct inquiry last week.

Oct 23 11:04 (JST):
Hello,

Thank you for the email. As of now all the International withdrawals are delayed due to the huge backlogs and we do not have an ETA at the moment. We are working hard to clear the backlogs and put back things to normal.

Best regards,

Mt.Gox Team

[eZc]

This was some time ago. Is there still a delay for Eur Sepa transfers??

[GreekGeek]

Dear MtGox
I canceled my withdrawal , bought back the coins and moving to bitstamp
it was (not-so) nice working with you but you can go fuck yourself
I hope you guys go bankrupt

[leoragraves666]

Dear MtGox
I canceled my withdrawal , bought back the coins and moving to bitstamp
it was (not-so) nice working with you but you can go fuck yourself
I hope you guys go bankrupt

 Excellent choice, now you can enjoy the benefits of a working exchange

[bernard75]

I will try to make a SEPA withdrawal time forecast based on EUR volume and my experience of how it affects delays.  Here is my first attempt.

This is for SEPA only, and withdrawals > ~500 EUR.  Smaller amounts may be faster.  JPY is known to be about 2 days, and international wire is about forever.  My forecast estimate when your withdrawal will change from confirmed to pending, and you will receive it the next business day.

My forecast:
Withdrawals made on or before September 5th are out or going out today.  Withdrawals made on September 6-8 will go out today or Monday.  September 9th will take more than one day to process.  I expect it to be done on Wednesday or Thursday along with withdrawals made on the 10th.  September 11th will take at least two days as well.  The first will probably go out on Friday, i.e. in one week from now.  When withdrawals from September 11th are done, it will be a smooth ride with shortening SEPA queue until we start working on withdrawals made in the beginning of October.  I expect a huge speed bump in the first few days of October.

Please report when your withdrawals arrive, and I will use your feedback to see if I can make a better forecast.  (Or if I am completely useless at this and should find something better to do. :-)

So, have you collected enough data for a new, more realistic and not payed by Gox approach?

[sturle]

Please report when your withdrawals arrive, and I will use your feedback to see if I can make a better forecast.  (Or if I am completely useless at this and should find something better to do. :-)

So, have you collected enough data for a new, more realistic and not payed by Gox approach?

?  All the data I based my forecast on is from public sources.  MtGox has not contributed.

I have been wrong in my volume to withdrawal time estimate.  I expected people who are doing arbitrage to withdraw as soon as possible after they had sold BTC, but it seems they are usually a day or two delayed.  The high volumes at September 9th and 11th led to a withdrawal peak from the 11th to the 13th.  This actually explains the peak at the end of August better as well.

[Frizz23]

I have been wrong in my volume to withdrawal time estimate.

You are a MtGox sock puppet. Go fuck yourself.

The question still is: Why would anyone transfer money to MtGox to buy Bitcoin - when they can get Bitcoins at any other exchange for ~20$ less?

[sturle]

I have been wrong in my volume to withdrawal time estimate.

You are a MtGox sock puppet. Go fuck yourself.

Such an angry little boy.  Did you get bad grades in school today?

The question still is: Why would anyone transfer money to MtGox to buy Bitcoin - when they can get Bitcoins at any other exchange for ~20$ less?

Why do you keep asking this question?  It has no relevance to the topic of this thread.

I can give you the answer for some.  If you want to buy 20k BTC at the lowest possible price, you have to transfer money to MtGox.  Trying to buy that much on any other exchange will push the price too high due to a shallower order book.

[Frizz23]

I have been wrong in my volume to withdrawal time estimate.

You are a MtGox sock puppet. Go fuck yourself.

Such an angry little boy.  Did you get bad grades in school today?

It has no relevance to the topic of this thread 

But the fact that you are a pathetic MtGox sock puppet has relevance to the topic of this thread.

The question still is: Why would anyone transfer money to MtGox to buy Bitcoin - when they can get Bitcoins at any other exchange for ~20$ less?

Why do you keep asking this question?  It has no relevance to the topic of this thread.

I can give you the answer for some.  If you want to buy 20k BTC at the lowest possible price, you have to transfer money to MtGox.  Trying to buy that much on any other exchange will push the price too high due to a shallower order book.

You do realize that nobody has to buy in one huge chunk?
You also do realize that MtGox is by far not as big anymore (as they have been 1 year ago) - hence there are plenty of alternatives, even for high volume transactions.

So my question is still unanswered: Why would anyone transfer money to MtGox to buy Bitcoin - when they can get Bitcoins at any other exchange for ~20$ less?

[Alpaca Bob]

So my question is still unanswered: Why would anyone transfer money to MtGox to buy Bitcoin - when they can get Bitcoins at any other exchange for ~20$ less?

They don't, that's why Gox' market share is fading away. The fiat that's still being traded over there is probably "old" money for the largest part. You do realise that you don't necessarily need to buy your coins and move out immediately, right? A lot of people probably wired fiat to Gox before the problems started, and still day-trade over there today.

http://data.bitcoinity.org/#caaaabeiba

Now please shut up before you make an even bigger fool of yourself. 

[sturle]

But the fact that you are a pathetic MtGox sock puppet has relevance to the topic of this thread.

It is not a fact.  It is a lie, and you know it.

The question still is: Why would anyone transfer money to MtGox to buy Bitcoin - when they can get Bitcoins at any other exchange for ~20$ less?

Why do you keep asking this question?  It has no relevance to the topic of this thread.

I can give you the answer for some.  If you want to buy 20k BTC at the lowest possible price, you have to transfer money to MtGox.  Trying to buy that much on any other exchange will push the price too high due to a shallower order book.

You do realize that nobody has to buy in one huge chunk?
You also do realize that MtGox is by far not as big anymore (as they have been 1 year ago) - hence there are plenty of alternatives, even for high volume transactions.

So my question is still unanswered: Why would anyone transfer money to MtGox to buy Bitcoin - when they can get Bitcoins at any other exchange for ~20$ less?

Very few people have to buy BTC in the first place, but some investors will rather take the market by surprise by buying a large chunk at once, than keep pushing the prices up gradually.  Depends on your strategy.  Buying a large chunk may be the cheapest way in a falling market, since a gradual buy of that much will turn the sentiment, trigger other buyers to buy and make the purchase much more expensive.

I can give another reason as well: In a rising market, you will want to buy your BTC fast.  If you are in Japan, transfers to MtGox will get credited in a few hours.  An international transfer to another exchange will take days, and the price may increased more than 10% in a few days.

Nevertheless your question has no relevance to the thread.  MtGox does not depend on a steady stream of deposits to operate.  Their order book contains bids for 13.5 millions USD, and this has in fact increased lately.  Which means people have plenty of money there to trade for, and deposits probably do come in.  Otherwise the number should be decreasing, since we know for sure that millions leave MtGox via EUR and JPY withdrawals every month.  MtGox has cashed in a few 100k USD in fees as well the last week, as you can calculate yourself based on the volume.

Why do you keep asking this question?  Do you think it has any kind of relevance for anything related to this thread?

[bnjmnkent]

In the last days (weeks?) the difference between gox and bitstamp was ~10..11%,
it is now down to ~5% for roughly 20hrs. Any news?

[Frizz23]

But the fact that you are a pathetic MtGox sock puppet has relevance to the topic of this thread.

It is not a fact.  It is a lie, and you know it.

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck 

[Frizz23]

So my question is still unanswered: Why would anyone transfer money to MtGox to buy Bitcoin - when they can get Bitcoins at any other exchange for ~20$ less?

They don't, that's why Gox' market share is fading away. The fiat that's still being traded over there is probably "old" money for the largest part.

I know. In fact everybody knows. Question is: Why does sturle deny this?