MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]

[raskul]

Bitstamp and btce also collapse.

Likely this is due to two factors:

1. Confidence in Bitcoin has sunk because of the MTGOX debacle

2. People are anticipating that any coins that come out of gox will be immediately sold for a profit.

i'd also place in the mix; 3. mass mining farms flying in the face of the ethos of decentralisation.

There are more midgies in the broth than just the troubles at gox. Remember, the market has been ignoring gox btc value for a few days now. Those big farms will have a dictat on the value because we are seeing those who run these farms now with hundreds of thousands of coin - it's obviously going to devalue the asset (in many ways).

[1714031241]

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[LukeCoin]

I am afraid the tragedy allready happend no matter what happens to MtGox. I am sorry for everyone having Coins or FIAT with Gox, but I think this could burn bitcoin to ashes considered the overall picture. Lets investigate the main reason for the cryptoboom:

We have a free currency not being influenced by politicians, governments or banks around the world. The money is just controled by the users. Thats fine. However, the other side of the coin is that companies around the world can operate in legal limbo. No doubt, if something similar happened to a bank, authorities would allready have taken control to investigate whats going on. From what we have seen so far even deposits would have been guaranted (at least up to 100.000 Eur as in Cyprus). In contrary, if the Gox guys dont run as milionaires given the arbitrage they can play, they are dumb as a bucket of shrimp...

Again, no matter what happens to Gox, the trust is gone. The merchants wont care about technical details. As soon as everyone realises that this could also happen (close and run) to their wallet-provider er even other exchanges, this migth be a death penalty to bitcoin.

[maexm89]

I transferred money from OKPAY and via SEPA last sunday and still no deposit or any reaction of the support staff -.-

[cryptog1]

that are not shitcoins...they are real I guess and the insiders just sell out and run with everything they can get as long


as no authority comes to arrest them...the lower the price the surer they are that all matters of proof will be destroyed

its take the money and run!

what money gox at 90 dollars lol. How is gox not shut down until they allow withdrawls? how is it possible?

because I believe gox or people in collusion with them or people with insider information wanted to cause a panic sale, which they did at least partially. We still don't have a goxBTC at 50usd but who knows from now on.
It seems that the trend is up though.

[cryptog1]

the police is talking to the protesters.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/mtgox-protest

[freedomno1]

the police is talking to the protesters.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/mtgox-protest

This is interesting stuff here feed is now off they need to get a protest license

[trdiablo]

Made a 50 Euro SEPA withdrawal on the 16th of Feb.   Was posted in my German bank on the 18th of February.   Meanwhile my withdrawal for 1,000 Euro from 22 January is not yet even pending.  

Meanwhile I initiated another 50 Euro withdrawal.  

Probably they were just trying to tempt me to put more money back in.   No way!  I would buy 1 BTC from someone, at this point, at Mt.Gox price, just as a further test to take out 50 Euro at a time, but pay for it on the side --  I wouldn't want to see MtGox get another cent to play with.

MtGox is allowed to pay out a maximum of 6 million euro a month due to European law (They need some license to be allowed to pay out more than 6 a month)
This means they can pay out about 200.000€ a day. On any certain day, when they are close to that limit of 200.000 the bank adds some small withdrawals (like your 50 euro) to get to that 200K limit. That is why small withdrawals are paid very fast and bigger withdrawals just wait in line.

[rpietila]

MtGox is allowed to pay out a maximum of 6 million euro a month due to European law (They need some license to be allowed to pay out more than 6 a month)
This means they can pay out about 200.000€ a day. On any certain day, when they are close to that limit of 200.000 the bank adds some small withdrawals (like your 50 euro) to get to that 200K limit. That is why small withdrawals are paid very fast and bigger withdrawals just wait in line.

Either the above, or the "20 day rule" is hogwash. Which one?

[Rampion]

[AustinHook2]

MtGox is allowed to pay out a maximum of 6 million euro a month due to European law (They need some license to be allowed to pay out more than 6 a month)
This means they can pay out about 200.000€ a day. On any certain day, when they are close to that limit of 200.000 the bank adds some small withdrawals (like your 50 euro) to get to that 200K limit. That is why small withdrawals are paid very fast and bigger withdrawals just wait in line.

They used to have a story about how they could only pay out 60,000 Euro a day, and that withdrawals greater than 50,000 Euros had to be split up in chunks of 50,000 at most.   Last I recall it is still on the FAQ somewhere.

Actually, I have it on good authority, that since the 1st of February 2014 there is no longer any limit on SEPA transfers except that the form that banks have to use only accepts up to 9 digits plus two decimal points.  You can Google for the SEPA  rule changes that are effective for the first of this month.  Doesn't mean that individual banks can't make their own rules, especially a Polish bank which not actually in the EUROzone, but is in the EU, and has an understanding with EUROzone members.   EUROzone officials frown on exceptions though, so such banks can be threatened through the special agreements to comply with the rules that promote commerce, or discontinue the arrangement. 

Somehow I doubt the MtGox is paying out even 60,000 Euro a day, except maybe to themselves, the proceeds of their crimes.  I suspect the token amounts are just honey to attract flies.

[DjangoSi]

I know that the BZ WBK (Bank) has very low limits on withdrawals.
I am not sure if they really can withdraw more than 50.000 EUR / Day, I don't think so.
There is a day and a transaction limit.

[AustinHook2]

MtGox is allowed to pay out a maximum of 6 million euro a month due to European law (They need some license to be allowed to pay out more than 6 a month)
This means they can pay out about 200.000€ a day. On any certain day, when they are close to that limit of 200.000 the bank adds some small withdrawals (like your 50 euro) to get to that 200K limit. That is why small withdrawals are paid very fast and bigger withdrawals just wait in line.

Either the above, or the "20 day rule" is hogwash. Which one?

The 20 day rule is explained as a way for every one to get a chance at withdrawals, instead of one large holder of cash to just tie up the "queue" for months with a rush of individual maximum withdrawals all initiated at the same time. 

It is plausible, given an effective limit as above.    On the other hand if there were a flow of 200,000 Euro a day, outgoing, then I am sure we would hear about a lot more people getting large chunks of it.  So, yes, it has got to be hogwash anyway.     

[sophiajinjinjin]

I transferred money from OKPAY and via SEPA last sunday and still no deposit or any reaction of the support staff -.-

me too, no deposit and no respond.

[severance26]

i couldnt bear to watch the whole 90 minutes thats posted on that website, but from what i can see... very ineffective. some token reporters that were headed to gox anyway, ALL english speakers.

is one guy handing out beers? and one dude is actually wearing google glass? so what, their IQs average out to like... 60?

embarassing.

also sitting around with their hoodies up in japan looks super sketchy. they failed to get their message across to everyone "irl", including gox. so in short this was a lame reddit stunt.

[Rampion]

also sitting around with their hoodies up in japan looks super sketchy.

This was funny, care to elaborate?

Maybe the usual custom in Japan is to wear only a t-shirt while its freezing cold and snowing like Karpeles does?

[hgmichna]

Incidentally, it seems to have escaped most observers that the Mt. Gox BTCUSD rate is much closer to a sensible rate bitcoin would have if it were used only as a means of paying for goods and services, i.e. as a trade currency, without all the crazy "to the moon" hype and speculation, which creates bubble after bubble.

I have predicted a price of $20 several months ago, assuming that the last bubble would burst completely. Meanwhile the adoption of bitcoin by brick-and-mortar businesses has exceeded my expectations, so I might have to correct my estimate upward a bit, but it would still remain well within the double-digit range. Now the Mt. Gox price has indeed entered the double-digit range briefly.

But I recognize that the Mt. Gox price is unlinked from the rest of the world, so this is probably just a funny coincidence.

Another point seems to have escaped almost everybody here. The Mt. Gox announcements, when read and analyzed attentively, seem to be naively honest. They openly admit to their own mistakes. I cannot discern any attempt in them to mislead the public. (They may or may not constitute such an attempt.) Any experienced PR person could write announcements that are much better suited to misleading the public into believing that all is well.

This could mean two things. Either the person writing these announcements is really fairly honest, even invoking self-criticism, or the team is unbelievably incompetent and completely unaware of its own incompetence.

It could be a mixture of both, and ultimately I cannot make much sense of it. Just wanted to mention it.

[roslinpl]

also sitting around with their hoodies up in japan looks super sketchy.

This was funny, care to elaborate?

Maybe the usual custom in Japan is to wear only a t-shirt while its freezing cold and snowing like Karpeles does?

Karpless is heating inside so he don't need to wear warm cloths

[severance26]

also sitting around with their hoodies up in japan looks super sketchy.

This was funny, care to elaborate?

Maybe the usual custom in Japan is to wear only a t-shirt while its freezing cold and snowing like Karpeles does?

Yeah, sorry.

In Japan, when someone does something where they don't want to be recognized, one typically wears a hood and medical facemask (and maybe sunglasses for a 'total sketch' look). Even without the glasses though, this makes one tough to pick out. Medical facemasks are worn regularly in Japan by people of all ages; high population density makes cold/flu spread very easily. There is much controversy as to whether this is in anyway effective but people do it anyway. So, wearing a mask hides your identity pretty well, but it's socially acceptable. Putting a hood up on top of that though, crosses some vague line in the Japanese mind. Haha thats really the only way I can describe it.

Hoodies are pretty popular here. I've never seen anyone use the hood barring a serious snowstorm. Its fashionable, but people dont put them up, unless they are committing a crime. Google 'downtown tokyo in winter'. You'll see facemasks but no hoods.

Anyhow Japan functions largely on image alone, so I was just pointing out that these guys look very sketchy dressed like that, even if its not their intention.

Oh and, it being Tokyo, it hit 9 deg C today. Its not that cold here.

[Jasmin68k]

Repost for visibility:

Today on #bitcoin

gmaxwell: wumpus: yea, I understand they had timed automatic reissues... this was also something I didn't know prior to monday before last and is one of the other reasons my "they couldn't have lost much!" position softened to "I have no freeking clue."
alpha125: gmaxwell: where did you find out abotu the automatic reissues?
gmaxwell: alpha125: from mtgox staff and magicaltux ... I had assumed previously that any reissues were manual via customer support but apparently it was just timed.
gmaxwell: you'll also note that they've kept increasing their fees and then even mad paying fees mandatory.
gmaxwell: This suggested to me that they totally misunderstood their problems. (and— I reported that I believed this months ago too)
gmaxwell: e.g. they noticed lots of txn getting stuck, they didn't understand it was because they were producing invalid txn (even though it was reported to them) and so they thought it was just 'full blocks'
gmaxwell: and they increased their fees from 0.0001 to 0.0005 — which was enough to may more than virtually every txn— and then later to 0.001 which is basically astronomic. And then they made it mandatory.
gmaxwell: of course their stalled txn had nothing to do with fees.

Edit: Just to clarify, only quoted relevant parts (maybe I should have inserted "[...]" where applicable). Full text here: http://pastebin.com/DaSph9uT

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg5278421#msg5278421

[zyk]

why are there only 3 people there?  all foreigners.  where is the japanese bitcoin community?  are any of them commenting on this forum?

Live MtGox Protest:

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/mtgox-protest

Confirming legit link

some japanese people know about bitcoin. the bitcoin community here is mostly western, however (read white). also people that live here, who know how japan works, read the half-baked conspiracy theories on this thread, and recognizing them for what they are, dont feed the trolls, and just quietly wait, holding onto their goxcoins.

i have btc in gox. ive gone in more since the drop. why? because i recognize the difference between risk and perception of risk. people are stupid. they think this thread has valuable information. unfortunately, sturle was right, this thread has gone increasingly downhill as it has gained popularity. more unformation is all thats left.

the only thing im really concerned about is the idea that the yakuza pulled off some kind of extortion or heist. one look at mark... nope. incompetent yes, malicious, no. but the incompetence (and lack of security at the medio bldg) may be the security problem they referred to in their update.

if his security concern was some white people standing in front of his building, then im REALLY NOT worried. he's just a poof then, and we are merely waiting for him to take his time and hen-peck some coding lines into the goxmachine.

oh and, to answer your last question, japanese people generally dont have much english ability. they stick to 2chan, you can threads on bitcoin (in japanese) there. the japanese-speaking thread on this website is basically dead (just a few of us weeaboos stop and blurb something in hiragana) id wager a guess though that of all the residents of japan who have accts at gox, the majority of them are expats. bitcoin is still very much an english-speaking phenomenon.

So oviously no panicked japanese selling GoxBTC ?

Let me hear the voices of reason to shut down the background noise :

Who´s BTC´s have been sold and are sold in ever increasing quanteties at MT. Gox at a discount of 90 % ?

No dreaming up of hoghwash can lead to another fact then:

Mt. Gox has been bankrupted intentionally and the shell is being left to the laywers !