Why waiting for the end of PBOC investigation, we already have a proof

[AmazonStuff]

I mean, as soon as PBOC started their investigation Chinese Bitcoin Exchanges turned off their fake volume engine

We are not just talking about fake volume, fake volume == fake price == bad reputation == another Gox.

We all followed what Chinese Exchanges was doing because of their volume, they were No.1, BTC/USD volume could not be even seen on the pie chart compared to BTC/CNY volume.

Did anyone asked Bobby Lee yesterday during his AMA on Reddit about this volume issue?

I mean there is no logic that halted withdrawals could influence volume at this magnitude, just look at the photo below.

Bitcoin price and volume across Chinese Bitcoin Exchanges

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[unsoindovo]

I mean, as soon as PBOC started their investigation Chinese Bitcoin Exchanges turned off their fake volume engine

We are not just talking about fake volume, fake volume == fake price == bad reputation == another Gox.

We all followed what Chinese Exchanges was doing because of their volume, they were No.1, BTC/USD volume could not be even seen on the pie chart compared to BTC/CNY volume.

Did anyone asked Bobby Lee yesterday during his AMA on Reddit about this volume issue?

I mean there is no logic that halted withdrawals could influence volume at this magnitude, just look at the photo below.

Bitcoin price and volume across Chinese Bitcoin Exchanges

Can i ask you where come from the chart?
Thank you.

[AmazonStuff]

Can i ask you where come from the chart?
Thank you.

Yes, of course, chart is from Bitcoinity, here's the link:

http://data.bitcoinity.org/markets/price_volume/6m/CNY?t=lb&vu=curr

You are welcome

[sakinaka]

So what answer are you waiting for ? If anyone asked Bobby Lee if during the AMA about this volume issue or something else about the Chinese exchnages ? Because if you indirect question is meant by "I mean there is no logic that halted withdrawals could influence volume at this magnitude, just look at the photo below", I could answer you that yes, it affected a lot. I mean, if you see that your exchange is getting audited seriously by PBOC and that you can not escape the funds out of it, I would personally not continue trading there since I could never see the funds again but I would obviously go somewhere else.

[zby]

I mean, as soon as PBOC started their investigation Chinese Bitcoin Exchanges turned off their fake volume engine

We are not just talking about fake volume, fake volume == fake price == bad reputation == another Gox.

We all followed what Chinese Exchanges was doing because of their volume, they were No.1, BTC/USD volume could not be even seen on the pie chart compared to BTC/CNY volume.

Did anyone asked Bobby Lee yesterday during his AMA on Reddit about this volume issue?

I mean there is no logic that halted withdrawals could influence volume at this magnitude, just look at the photo below.

...

The Chinese volumes were an effect of: first no fees - this has changed, second bots used for inflating the volume - this should also be over as this was required by the authorities, third possibly by completely fake numbers generated by the exchanges - this should also be over as required by the authorities. This is well established now and it is a good explanation - that's why nobody asked Bobby Lee about it. No withdrawals can add to diminishing the volume even further - but it is not the primary reason - you are right there.

[AmazonStuff]

So what answer are you waiting for ? If anyone asked Bobby Lee if during the AMA about this volume issue or something else about the Chinese exchnages ? Because if you indirect question is meant by "I mean there is no logic that halted withdrawals could influence volume at this magnitude, just look at the photo below", I could answer you that yes, it affected a lot. I mean, if you see that your exchange is getting audited seriously by PBOC and that you can not escape the funds out of it, I would personally not continue trading there since I could never see the funds again but I would obviously go somewhere else.

Theoretically, you won't lose your funds if you continue trading, just because withdrawals are blocked. If you are afraid that you would lose your funds, you would probably withdraw CNY because BTC withdrawals are halted. If everyone withdraws CNY from the exchange, price of BTC would be 0 or if could I say much lower than approx. $1000 per BTC.

[AmazonStuff]

The Chinese volumes were an effect of: first no fees - this has changed, second bots used for inflating the volume - this should also be over as this was required by the authorities, third possibly by completely fake numbers generated by the exchanges - this should also be over as required by the authorities. This is well established now and it is a good explanation - that's why nobody asked Bobby Lee about it. No withdrawals can add to diminishing the volume even further - but it is not the primary reason - you are right there.

No fees policy would not influence the volume in this order of magnitude. If you take a look at the graph, it's almost 450x lower volume then before, that's 45000% lower than before. I don't know about what type of bots are you talking about, if you are talking about trading bots there is still an evidence that they are still there, because exchanges are moving synchronously to CNY exchanges or vice versa.

[Biodom]

i think that bitcoin needs to separate itself from the bureaucrats at PBOC.
In case on a fork, I will have nothing to do with their version.
They have crippled Internet there and now they want crippled bitcoin or so it seems
check out this exchange

JaManSnowflake

Thanks for doing an AMA. Would improved anonymity in bitcoin be a concern for the PBoC?

btcc_official  

You’re welcome! I don’t think that improving anonymity would be a positive step for bitcoin from the PBOC’s perspective.

Thanks,

Bobby

CosmicHemorroid

And this my friends is the real reason why the Chinese miners are revolting against segregated witness and Bitcoin core Developers. Bitcoin unlimited has promised them PayPal 2.0 with zero privacy enhancements.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5ulbac/ama_bobby_lee_ama_on_saturday_february_18_at_1000/
i am sorry, but i wish that chinese exchanges will stay closed and then chinese miners disappear into thin air.
Once it happens, we can change POW algo to GPUs.
Good riddance!

[JimboToronto]

Chinese Bitcoin Exchanges turned off their fake volume engine

We are not just talking about fake volume, fake volume == fake price == bad reputation == another Gox.

I wouldn't be so quick to assume there was some kind of conspiracy on the part of the Chinese exchanges. There was no "fake volume engine".

To compare them with MtGox is ridiculous.

What occurred was that they used a zero-fee system. This meant that people could program bots to trade without worrying about trading costs. They could also buy and sell their own coins, often in large quantities, at no cost.

This is what caused the over-inflated volumes and why people considered them to be fake. That ended when the PBOC made them charge fees.

The Chinese volumes were an effect of: first no fees - this has changed, second bots used for inflating the volume - this should also be over as this was required by the authorities, third possibly by completely fake numbers generated by the exchanges - this should also be over as required by the authorities. This is well established now and it is a good explanation - that's why nobody asked Bobby Lee about it. No withdrawals can add to diminishing the volume even further - but it is not the primary reason - you are right there.

I agree.

I really don't think there were any fake numbers being generated by the exchanges, but I'll keep my mind open to the possibility.

If there was any intentional involvement, it would probably have been that the fake volumes helped obfuscate the total amount of real volume going through the exchanges in the form of deposits and withdrawals, which were the real source of revenues for the exchanges. They had a vested interest in money laundering and capital outflow.

The PBOC is simply accomplishing what they set out to do.

Too bad for those who enjoyed the free ride of zero-fee trading. If you live in a city with a significant Chinese population, you'll know how much many Chinese people love to gamble. Imagine a casino with no zeroes on the roulette wheels or vigorish taken on the slots. Just pay an admission charge and gamble for free all day.

No wonder volumes dropped off abruptly. It wasn't because of turning off some imaginary fake volume engine. It was simply because people couldn't play for free any more.

JMHO

[Biodom]

chinese mining is mostly fake too, in many cases subsidized with free electricity from hydroelectric dams.
KnC filed in their bankruptcy that they don't see how chinese miners can continue to operate.
We probably know how.
With a direct subsidy it would be a nice racket, isn't it?

[JimboToronto]

chinese mining is mostly fake too, in many cases subsidized with free electricity from hydroelectric dams.
KnC filed in their bankruptcy that they don't see how chinese miners can continue to operate.
We probably know how.
With a direct subsidy it would be a nice racket, isn't it?

I wouldn't call mining fake just because it's being done with free energy.

Lots of people take advantage of free (e.g. included in rent) electricity to do everything from mining bitcoins to running illegal grow-ops.

I continued mining with my first-gen BFL ASICs long after they were unprofitably obsolete, simply by doing it only in the winter when I was paying for electric heating anyway. Watt-hours are watt-hours and BTUs are BTUs.

The coins I mined were not fake. Neither are the exahashes produced by the Chinese mining cartels. Anyone could have done it.

[Biodom]

What we have in China is a drive to monopolize an industry using hidden subsidies.
That is not the same as one person mining in winter.

We also have miners in China resisting technological change that large % of nodes approve.
They resist it probably based on indirect orders from PBOC, as was clearly indicated in AMA that I posted.

As such, I want nothing to do with chinese miners taking orders from their politburo, PBOC, whatever.
Therefore, new POW is needed and soon. A clean split.
Current situation is untenable.

[Gotottack]

That's a very alarming photo proof you have there. It just goes to show that it is totally hard to trust anything in bitcoin trading because there is really no regulatory board that handles how exchanges should function. Hence, we see these kinds of exchanges that do malicious methods to deceive people and ultimately control the market.

[pooya87]

well part of the huge volume was because of their margin trading but we can not deny they were reporting some fake volume mixed with that too.
i have already made a topic about this the day it happened. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1764928.0
you can see how the charts changed all of a sudden.

[zby]

The Chinese volumes were an effect of: first no fees - this has changed, second bots used for inflating the volume - this should also be over as this was required by the authorities, third possibly by completely fake numbers generated by the exchanges - this should also be over as required by the authorities. This is well established now and it is a good explanation - that's why nobody asked Bobby Lee about it. No withdrawals can add to diminishing the volume even further - but it is not the primary reason - you are right there.

No fees policy would not influence the volume in this order of magnitude. If you take a look at the graph, it's almost 450x lower volume then before, that's 45000% lower than before. I don't know about what type of bots are you talking about, if you are talking about trading bots there is still an evidence that they are still there, because exchanges are moving synchronously to CNY exchanges or vice versa.

The bots I was writing about were about inflating the volume - that was their purpose. Iindividual traders had incentives to have big volume trading (lower fees on withdrawals or something) - so they used bots to trade between to accounts that they control. This can easily explain 450x or whatever other number more volume - because there is no limit and no price to how much you can trade between yourself.

[zby]

The Chinese volumes were an effect of: first no fees - this has changed, second bots used for inflating the volume - this should also be over as this was required by the authorities, third possibly by completely fake numbers generated by the exchanges - this should also be over as required by the authorities. This is well established now and it is a good explanation - that's why nobody asked Bobby Lee about it. No withdrawals can add to diminishing the volume even further - but it is not the primary reason - you are right there.

No fees policy would not influence the volume in this order of magnitude. If you take a look at the graph, it's almost 450x lower volume then before, that's 45000% lower than before. I don't know about what type of bots are you talking about, if you are talking about trading bots there is still an evidence that they are still there, because exchanges are moving synchronously to CNY exchanges or vice versa.

The bots I was writing about were about inflating the volume - that was their purpose. Iindividual traders had incentives to have big volume trading (lower fees on withdrawals or something) - so they used bots to trade between accounts that they control. This can easily explain 450x or whatever other number more volume - because there is no limit and no price to how much you can trade between yourself.

[unsoindovo]

I mean, as soon as PBOC started their investigation Chinese Bitcoin Exchanges turned off their fake volume engine

We are not just talking about fake volume, fake volume == fake price == bad reputation == another Gox.

We all followed what Chinese Exchanges was doing because of their volume, they were No.1, BTC/USD volume could not be even seen on the pie chart compared to BTC/CNY volume.

Did anyone asked Bobby Lee yesterday during his AMA on Reddit about this volume issue?

I mean there is no logic that halted withdrawals could influence volume at this magnitude, just look at the photo below.

maybe high voleme are tranfered to localbitcoin??
hebergeur d image

[Ted E. Bare]

Lol look at that Chinese localbitcoins volume. Do you still call the Chinese demand for bitcoin fake? I call this FUD. The future is bitcoin.