Why not have Bitcoin Unlimited with Segwit?

[Elwar]

I don't usually jump into the block size debate because even though I am a software engineer, I have not been developing Bitcoin so I don't really see it as my place and leave that to those that are actually getting their hands dirty. But hey, at least I am posting in the correct forum for this question.

From what I understand, Bitcoin unlimited is basically an upgrade that allows miners to increase the block size. Segwit is a way of moving a large chunk of the block off of the blockchain.

What is incompatible between these two features and why can they not both be implemented?

Why not BU, Segwit, sidechains and lightning network?

Is it just a power play thing? Or are there technical reasons?


Also, please do not attack me if you see this as an attack on "your side". I know this has become a religious discussion. Please keep it technical.

[DannyHamilton]

- snip -
What is incompatible between these two features

Nothing.

and why can they not both be implemented?

They can.  You just need to get a developer to code it up, and then get an overwhelming majority of users to agree to use your code.

Why not BU, Segwit, sidechains and lightning network?

Because there isn't any support behind it yet.  If anyone has coded that up yet, then I'm not aware of it.

Is it just a power play thing?

That's one way to describe it.  Another would be that it is a political battle.

Core refuses to add Unlimited to their code because some Core developers feel that Unlimited is a bad idea.
Unlimited refuses to add SegWit to their code because some Unlimited developers feel that SegWit is a bad idea.
Nobody else has combined the two and convinced enough people to use their code yet.

Or are there technical reasons?

No.

Also, please do not attack me if you see this as an attack on "your side". I know this has become a religious discussion. Please keep it technical.

You'd have been better off making this thread "self-moderated" so you could delete posts from those that fail to respect this request.

[Carlton Banks]

From what I understand, Bitcoin unlimited is basically an upgrade that allows miners to increase the block size.

No.

Unlimited allows anyone, not just miners, to increase the blocksize, and this approach has unsolved problems (unsolvable really).

Proponents of this "emergent consensus" system claim it will result in a compromise block size to be reached. This only works if all BU users choose honestly, and choose only once. In reality, the ability to choose the blocksize will attract people who want BU to fail, and they can simply flood a BU network with nodes that all choose an unsupportable blocksize (either too small or too large). BU proponents pretend this is not a problem.

Segwit is a way of moving a large chunk of the block off of the blockchain.

A better description would be that Segwit creates a different type of block in addition to the type we have already.

What is incompatible between these two features and why can they not both be implemented?

Choosing the blocksize limit (BU) when there are 2 block types (SW) would be a more difficult decision for the user, but you're correct that there's no reason they couldn't work together.

Why not BU, Segwit, sidechains and lightning network?

Is it just a power play thing? Or are there technical reasons?

The reason against BU is that it's a bad idea AND a political powerplay.

[digaran]

It's not like we have bigger blocks anyways so good luck to all BU users, you know you'll never become the majority and running BU is a futile act.
More than 85% of the network running on Core code therefore 100% of the network has to obey Core rules, instead of fighting the Core best to join them.
btw in GitHub main developer (aka, Satoshi) has no power over any changes to the source code and it needs consensus no matter what?
Correct me, if Satoshi somehow magically logon to the internet by known usernames and tells us what is the best option I'd listen if I was a big miner.

[Elwar]

Thanks for the input.

Bitcoin will be around for centuries. I am sure there will be many features added whether it is big blocks, sidechains, sidechains with big blocks, lightning network, quantum network, whichever. It will only grow over time.