BitMain: S10 soon (or maybe S11)?

[unsoindovo]

When Bitmain will release the next generatio of bitcoin ASIC miners?
some argue:

Difficulty:
Jun 08 2016 : 196061423940 (when S9 was released)
Today : 440779902287
Difficulty increase : 124,82%

Price
June 2016 : 536$/BTC
Today : 1060$/BTC
Price increase: 96,68%

for miners gains are fell 30% at least...
and until now, we are are safe, with this bitcoin price...
but if bitcoin fall back to 800$ or worst to 700$ permanently??

we will power off our miners?

[1715313225]

1715313225

[B1tUnl0ck3r]

When Bitmain will release the next generatio of bitcoin ASIC miners?
some argue:

Difficulty:
Jun 08 2016 : 196061423940 (when S9 was released)
Today : 440779902287
Difficulty increase : 124,82%

Price
June 2016 : 536$/BTC
Today : 1060$/BTC
Price increase: 96,68%

for miners gains are fell 30% at least...
and until now, we are are safe, with this bitcoin price...
but if bitcoin fall back to 800$ or worst to 700$ permanently??

we will power off our miners?

Should be S11... speculation...

[unsoindovo]

When Bitmain will release the next generatio of bitcoin ASIC miners?
some argue:

Difficulty:
Jun 08 2016 : 196061423940 (when S9 was released)
Today : 440779902287
Difficulty increase : 124,82%

Price
June 2016 : 536$/BTC
Today : 1060$/BTC
Price increase: 96,68%

for miners gains are fell 30% at least...
and until now, we are are safe, with this bitcoin price...
but if bitcoin fall back to 800$ or worst to 700$ permanently??

we will power off our miners?

ahahahahah...
sure.. they skip even numbers...

 

Should be S11... speculation...

(title edited!!!!)

[philipma1957]

they have zero need to build a more efficient miner and sell it to the public.

look at hashnest  they still do well with the s-7
so if they build a s-11 it kills the s-7 
the 67% s-7 number is the key to the s-11

when it gets to 90% and they do 1 more power cost drop to 6.5 cents
they will bring on the s-11

[fanatic26]

I am not sure why everyone is assuming they will just pump out another new miner less than a year after the S9. You guys have to realize that we are butting up against current wafer thickness limits. Nobody will be putting anything out that is under the 14-16nm tech for the next probably 2 years.

Bitcoin asics have been chasing the tail of retail chip manufacture but at this point we are all caught up. TSMC just started up their 10nm process and they are having production issues. Low yield on the 10nm stuff might even delay new Apple devices let alone a small boutique manufacturer like bitmain.

[Biodom]

Nobody will be putting anything out that is under the 14-16nm tech for the next probably 2 years.

Nobody says that they will move to 10nm.
However, consider the following:
BM1382 S3
BM1384 S5
BM1385 S7

..were all 28nm chips, but they were optimized, etc to result in ability to pack more chips in a similar size miner plus chips got to be more efficient.

S3 had 0.77 J/Gh and 32 chips 28nm
S5 had 0.51 J/Gh and 60 chips 28nm
S7 had 0.25 J/Gh and 162 or 135 chips (later versions) 28nm
S9 has 0.1 J/Gh and 189 chips 16nm
S10/11 might be 0.07J/Gh? and 264? chips (14 or 16nm)?

[rotors]

Most likely it will come when 7nm process goes online.

[abonami]

they have zero need to build a more efficient miner and sell it to the public.

look at hashnest  they still do well with the s-7
so if they build a s-11 it kills the s-7 
the 67% s-7 number is the key to the s-11

when it gets to 90% and they do 1 more power cost drop to 6.5 cents
they will bring on the s-11

can you explain this please
http://www.3rbz.com/uploads/4c5008d762c81.jpg

[philipma1957]

they have zero need to build a more efficient miner and sell it to the public.

look at hashnest  they still do well with the s-7
so if they build a s-11 it kills the s-7 
the 67% s-7 number is the key to the s-11

when it gets to 90% and they do 1 more power cost drop to 6.5 cents
they will bring on the s-11

can you explain this please

the first number is -0.15120252   this is what my cost to buy and sell and own shares of the s-7 has been.

it is a negative number because I made a real profit of .151 btc up to now and I still own 765 gh of a s-7

the second number is .47742294 btc these are all the coins I mined with the different amounts of s-7 gh I owned

the last number is all the coin I spent to pay for power. 0.12682206

the number in blue  67.83% is what you pay in power now for an s-7   for every coin your s-7 earns you pay .6783  btc
s
So at the moment the s-7 still earns more money then it costs for power if you have 7 cent power cost.  bitmain charges 7 cents for power.

there is no way bitmain is going to sell the s-11 or s-10 to us  until the s-7 dies as a money maker.

[leowonderful]

Most likely it will come when 7nm process goes online.

By then Bitmain will have more serious competition; far more likely they'll just release another 14nm chip that has slightly better efficiency per gigahash. Odds are they're already working on it, most of the time they've always been one step ahead of any opponent like bitfury.

[philipma1957]

Most likely it will come when 7nm process goes online.

By then Bitmain will have more serious competition; far more likely they'll just release another 14nm chip that has slightly better efficiency per gigahash. Odds are they're already working on it, most of the time they've always been one step ahead of any opponent like bitfury.

Yeah but they won't release it until the s-7 go bust on hash nest  it would be bad business to kill off the s-7 on their part.

BTW with coins pushing 1080  the s-7 is looking better then 66% now

[unsoindovo]

Most likely it will come when 7nm process goes online.

By then Bitmain will have more serious competition; far more likely they'll just release another 14nm chip that has slightly better efficiency per gigahash. Odds are they're already working on it, most of the time they've always been one step ahead of any opponent like bitfury.

isn't so easy to manufacture a 14nm chip... and do it without problem...
remeber S7 vs S9???
S7 work fine without board/chip error with his 28nm chip...
S9 can't do the same thing. With his 16nm chip get errors and errors.. just look at bitcointalk thread talking about S9 board error!!!

[unsoindovo]

Most likely it will come when 7nm process goes online.

By then Bitmain will have more serious competition; far more likely they'll just release another 14nm chip that has slightly better efficiency per gigahash. Odds are they're already working on it, most of the time they've always been one step ahead of any opponent like bitfury.

Yeah but they won't release it until the s-7 go bust on hash nest  it would be bad business to kill off the s-7 on their part.

BTW with coins pushing 1080  the s-7 is looking better then 66% now

philipma1957 , but there is a public chart like the above???
it could be a good signal to understand when it' time to sell the S9..
i mean,
when the s-7 go bust on hash nest, and maybe it's mean S10 or S11 come out, it will be time to sell S9...

[gbBit]

The chart are available to anyone with a hashnet account.  Just click on hash on the left menu bar and then the device.  The cost of purchasing is usually pretty well set to the future value.

[unsoindovo]

The chart are available to anyone with a hashnet account.  Just click on hash on the left menu bar and then the device.  The cost of purchasing is usually pretty well set to the future value.

thank you.. i sign up on hashnet!

[pokapeski]

Another approach, bitmain will release a better product when they feel the risk of concurrence getting closer.
My understanding is that they currently have the most efficient device in the market so I see little justification for them to launch another model.
I would better hope for another player (canaan??) launching a good alternative. That would be ideal for miners IMHO.

[fanatic26]

I would better hope for another player (canaan??) launching a good alternative. That would be ideal for miners IMHO.

They did but its way less efficient. Ebit launched a miner that is also less efficient. To think any of these companies is gonna pull a more efficient miner out of their ass is a pipe dream

[unsoindovo]

I would better hope for another player (canaan??) launching a good alternative. That would be ideal for miners IMHO.

They did but its way less efficient. Ebit launched a miner that is also less efficient. To think any of these companies is gonna pull a more efficient miner out of their ass is a pipe dream

ebit will optimize his processor..
remeber who Ebit use 14nm Asic.
bitmain is using 16nm Asic

[rotors]

16nm and 14nm doesn''t matter they are basically same. It's just marketing by TSMC, GloFo. After 65nm only parts of transistor are shrunk not all. So basically 14nm is only one part of transistors while others are significanlty larger. Thats the reason why Intel 14m is better than other foundries 10nm will be.

[QuintLeo]

14 nm and 16 nm from a PERFORMANCE standpoint are essentially identical - and are the current semiconductor state-of-the-art.

 Bitmain CAN'T release a miner that is significantly more efficient than the S9 - they're having enough issues making the S9 work reliably at the MIDrange of the chip's design specs.

 When the next node (be it 10nm or 7nm) finally hits production will be the SOONEST Bitmain (or anyone else) will be able to come up with a significantly more efficient miner - and current indications are "2019 or 2020" for that timeframe, even *IF* the new node has design tools available to small designers well before the timeframe of actual production arrives.


 The days of a miner only having 6-10 months as the "most efficient" are OVER - there is no more "catch up TO the general semiconductor state of the art" left.

 At this point we're probably looking at 3-5 YEAR generation cycles - possibly LONGER as all of the major chipmakers have stated that "10nm is the end of the road for pure silicon".

[philipma1957]

14 nm and 16 nm from a PERFORMANCE standpoint are essentially identical - and are the current semiconductor state-of-the-art.

 Bitmain CAN'T release a miner that is significantly more efficient than the S9 - they're having enough issues making the S9 work reliably at the MIDrange of the chip's design specs.

 When the next node (be it 10nm or 7nm) finally hits production will be the SOONEST Bitmain (or anyone else) will be able to come up with a significantly more efficient miner - and current indications are "2019 or 2020" for that timeframe, even *IF* the new node has design tools available to small designers well before the timeframe of actual production arrives.


 The days of a miner only having 6-10 months as the "most efficient" are OVER - there is no more "catch up TO the general semiconductor state of the art" left.

 At this point we're probably looking at 3-5 YEAR generation cycles - possibly LONGER as all of the major chipmakers have stated that "10nm is the end of the road for pure silicon".

Yeah your points are  good.

7 nm will use material other them silicon maybe carbon.

The s9 will have a long cycle .

And as I type the s7 turns a huge profit for bitmain.  On hashnest For them to build and hide the s10 or s11 makes economical sense next year not this year.
I don't think we see any updates for a long time.

[Traslavin]

14 nm and 16 nm from a PERFORMANCE standpoint are essentially identical - and are the current semiconductor state-of-the-art.

 Bitmain CAN'T release a miner that is significantly more efficient than the S9 - they're having enough issues making the S9 work reliably at the MIDrange of the chip's design specs.

 When the next node (be it 10nm or 7nm) finally hits production will be the SOONEST Bitmain (or anyone else) will be able to come up with a significantly more efficient miner - and current indications are "2019 or 2020" for that timeframe, even *IF* the new node has design tools available to small designers well before the timeframe of actual production arrives.


 The days of a miner only having 6-10 months as the "most efficient" are OVER - there is no more "catch up TO the general semiconductor state of the art" left.

 At this point we're probably looking at 3-5 YEAR generation cycles - possibly LONGER as all of the major chipmakers have stated that "10nm is the end of the road for pure silicon".

Yeah your points are  good.

7 nm will use material other them silicon maybe carbon.

The s9 will have a long cycle .

And as I type the s7 turns a huge profit for bitmain.  On hashnest For them to build and hide the s10 or s11 makes economical sense next year not this year.
I don't think we see any updates for a long time.

The S9 will be here for long. It is very profitable even when the difficulty is very high.

[shield132]

If I amn't wrong, with antminer s9 and free electricity, nowdays ROI is 140% which is pretty good nowdays. Also if we look their movements, to my mind antminer s10 maybe will be in one year or maybe longer. Antminer s9 is still new on market and hashnest only 1-2 month ago announced new pacmic contract and s9 on hashnest cloud mining.
If Bitfury and hashnest will unite, we will see great miner.

[fanatic26]

If Bitfury and hashnest will unite, we will see great miner.

Considering bitmain owns hashnest im gonna say the chance of a collaboration with bitmain is right about 0%

[QuintLeo]

14 nm and 16 nm from a PERFORMANCE standpoint are essentially identical - and are the current semiconductor state-of-the-art.

 Bitmain CAN'T release a miner that is significantly more efficient than the S9 - they're having enough issues making the S9 work reliably at the MIDrange of the chip's design specs.

 When the next node (be it 10nm or 7nm) finally hits production will be the SOONEST Bitmain (or anyone else) will be able to come up with a significantly more efficient miner - and current indications are "2019 or 2020" for that timeframe, even *IF* the new node has design tools available to small designers well before the timeframe of actual production arrives.


 The days of a miner only having 6-10 months as the "most efficient" are OVER - there is no more "catch up TO the general semiconductor state of the art" left.

 At this point we're probably looking at 3-5 YEAR generation cycles - possibly LONGER as all of the major chipmakers have stated that "10nm is the end of the road for pure silicon".

Yeah your points are  good.

7 nm will use material other them silicon maybe carbon.

 Carbon isn't a semiconductor, so it's not an option.

 Germanium is possible - IBM did state at some point that their 10nm process would be using a germanium/silicon hybrid wafer, and germanium was widely used for a long time but doesn't handle high power as well as silicon so started losing out.

 In any event, Moore's Law is in trouble - the next couple generations might see it finally come to an end and process advancements slow down a LOT as quantum effects have made it increasingly difficult to reduce feature size over the last 10-15 years....

[philipma1957]

14 nm and 16 nm from a PERFORMANCE standpoint are essentially identical - and are the current semiconductor state-of-the-art.

 Bitmain CAN'T release a miner that is significantly more efficient than the S9 - they're having enough issues making the S9 work reliably at the MIDrange of the chip's design specs.

 When the next node (be it 10nm or 7nm) finally hits production will be the SOONEST Bitmain (or anyone else) will be able to come up with a significantly more efficient miner - and current indications are "2019 or 2020" for that timeframe, even *IF* the new node has design tools available to small designers well before the timeframe of actual production arrives.


 The days of a miner only having 6-10 months as the "most efficient" are OVER - there is no more "catch up TO the general semiconductor state of the art" left.

 At this point we're probably looking at 3-5 YEAR generation cycles - possibly LONGER as all of the major chipmakers have stated that "10nm is the end of the road for pure silicon".

Yeah your points are  good.

7 nm will use material other them silicon maybe carbon.

 Carbon isn't a semiconductor, so it's not an option.

 Germanium is possible - IBM did state at some point that their 10nm process would be using a germanium/silicon hybrid wafer, and germanium was widely used for a long time but doesn't handle high power as well as silicon so started losing out.

 In any event, Moore's Law is in trouble - the next couple generations might see it finally come to an end and process advancements slow down a LOT as quantum effects have made it increasingly difficult to reduce feature size over the last 10-15 years....

I thought I read something about carbon.

In any event an electron has a fixed width so shrinkage is going to hit a wall sooner or later.

I think it is 1 meter to -18 power big side and 1meter to - 22 small size.

Some say it is a point and has no width but then it has energy problems if it has no width .

[Amph]

If I amn't wrong, with antminer s9 and free electricity, nowdays ROI is 140% which is pretty good nowdays. Also if we look their movements, to my mind antminer s10 maybe will be in one year or maybe longer. Antminer s9 is still new on market and hashnest only 1-2 month ago announced new pacmic contract and s9 on hashnest cloud mining.
If Bitfury and hashnest will unite, we will see great miner.

well there is no free electricity but chinese pay very little, what is not said is that they are currently mining the same as before by consuming at least 5 times more, this because they must stay in competition

doesn't look at the calculator, i made a math about this, and currently it's like a s9 is consuming 7kwh(actually you have five of them that net you the same as one, but the precept is the same) and not 1.4, therefore they are consuming something like $250 a month for a single unit s9

this s9 can only produce $300 per month, the difference is very restricted as you see

maybe this is not clear, an example...

if there are two farm that with 100 s9 each, can mine all the 1800 coins per day(900 each one), and you add other 100 because the other farm is adding his 100 s9 to have more hash than you and steal your coin you are not making more than 900 coins per day....

you will end with this situation, two farm that have 200 s9 but are still making 1800 coins(900 each), the bad thing is that the consumptino is now 2x before, see where this is going? this is the reason why KNC got bankrupt...

[Biodom]

I thought I read something about carbon.

In any event an electron has a fixed width so shrinkage is going to hit a wall sooner or later.

I think it is 1 meter to -18 power big side and 1meter to - 22 small size.

Some say it is a point and has no width but then it has energy problems if it has no width .

I am reading that they will make blended/mixed semiconductors (silicon+germanium or indium) for next-next gen.
Re electron size, there is a classical size of 2.82x10-15m and more recent view that it behaves like a point with no spatial dimension.
Not sure what it means in practice.

[philipma1957]

I thought I read something about carbon.

In any event an electron has a fixed width so shrinkage is going to hit a wall sooner or later.

I think it is 1 meter to -18 power big side and 1meter to - 22 small size.

Some say it is a point and has no width but then it has energy problems if it has no width .

I am reading that they will make blended/mixed semiconductors (silicon+germanium or indium) for next-next gen.
Re electron size, there is a classical size of 2.82x10-15m and more recent view that it behaves like a point with no spatial dimension.
Not sure what it means in practice.

I found a few reads on it.  the point concept fails to meet our current laws of energy.  but on a practical side

we will end shrinking of chips  with the 7nm size.

7nm is 7.0 x 10 -9m    quite a bit bigger then 2.82 x 10 -15m  but not too big for the traces on the chip.


maybe after that we use a new idea yet to be invented.

[rotors]

Looks like they will be having upgraded model of L3 soon. 2xL3 basically 4 hashboards, but at bit lower price than 2 units.

[fanatic26]

Looks like they will be having upgraded model of L3 soon. 2xL3 basically 4 hashboards, but at bit lower price than 2 units.

L3 is a Scrypt miner, doesnt have anything to do with the SHA256 miners.

[Zeta0S]

Looks like they will be having upgraded model of L3 soon. 2xL3 basically 4 hashboards, but at bit lower price than 2 units.

I must say I never had seen the L3 in the online shop...

[el kaka22]

Looks like they will be having upgraded model of L3 soon. 2xL3 basically 4 hashboards, but at bit lower price than 2 units.

I must say I never had seen the L3 in the online shop...

Because they seem incredibly profitable. Since there are no powerful miners in altcoin mining business like bitcoin these are one of the best by the looks of it.

I never used myself so I cannot say anything personally but that is just why people buy it and its always out of stock. It would be wack to find one and purchase it but it gets sold in bulk to some high buyers I assume.

[Zeta0S]

Looks like they will be having upgraded model of L3 soon. 2xL3 basically 4 hashboards, but at bit lower price than 2 units.

I must say I never had seen the L3 in the online shop...

Because they seem incredibly profitable. Since there are no powerful miners in altcoin mining business like bitcoin these are one of the best by the looks of it.

I never used myself so I cannot say anything personally but that is just why people buy it and its always out of stock. It would be wack to find one and purchase it but it gets sold in bulk to some high buyers I assume.

It`s not out of stock, it simply not on there website/shop

[QuintLeo]

The L3 appears to have only appeared on their chinese web shop, and sold out VERY quickly.