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Author Topic: Lottery guy bets entire BTC fortune and ... loses? :)  (Read 5797 times)
jerfelix
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June 17, 2011, 03:07:28 PM
 #41

First of all, bitlotto didn't make a bet. He made a casual statement, which you then took as if it was a binding bet with you, without asking for confirmation and without even making any counter bet. You can't expect him to pay up on something so one-sided as "I'm betting everything against someone who's not betting anything".

Second of all, you didn't win the bet. You keep describing the possibility of the lotto operator buying tickets in the lotto as cheating, when it is nothing of the sort. If someone wants to buy 1 million lotto tickets and stack the odds in their favor, they have every right to do so, even if they are also the operator of the lotto. That's not cheating, that's just aggressive betting. Anyone can do it, whether they run the lotto or not.

Finally you tie together the idea that if he buys 99% of the lotto tickets and then someone in the remaining 1% wins, he could run off with the money. This breaks the very premise of his original statement because it would be very obvious that he was doing so. Everyone would know it, so it would not be undetectable and therefore this method of cheating (simply taking the money and running) doesn't meet the criteria he set forth (that there is no *undetectable* way for him to take money). You are trying to obscure this fact by tying it in with some concept that buying a lot of tickets is cheating, which it is not.

Any bitcoin transactions runs the risk of one party 'taking the money and running'. It's not a weakness of the lotto.

First, he certainly made a clear challenge, an offer.  If I do X, he will pay me Y.  If you don't want to call it a bet, that's fine.  But that offer would be as legally binding as any other, like "if you work for an hour, I'll pay you $10."

Second, sure anyone can buy lots of tickets to stack the odds in their favor.  But the lottery owner had the distinct advantage of being able to take the money, win or lose, unless it's in trusted escrow.  So, no, it's incorrect to say that "anyone can do it", because the lottery owner has a HUGE advantage that no one else has.  He can take cash, win or lose.

Finally, your third premise, that it would be obvious to all, if he ran off with the money, this is true, but my point is that such an unscrupulous lottery owner would be cheating everyone on the transactions where he wins.  What you call aggressive betting, I call "can't lose" betting. 

Like I have said before, he may have bought 130 of the 131 tickets in the June lotto, and you can't prove to me otherwise.  And if he did, that's more than "aggressive betting".  It's cheating some people out of 1 BTC.



 
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June 17, 2011, 03:50:00 PM
 #42

But the lottery owner had the distinct advantage of being able to take the money, win or lose, unless it's in trusted escrow.

He can't. As far as I understand all the money is sent to a unique public address, thus trackable by anyone through block explorer. Every movement from this address must be to the winner otherwise everybody would know he may have cheated. (which would defeat the "undetected" part of the challenge).




 
jerfelix
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June 17, 2011, 04:33:25 PM
 #43

But the lottery owner had the distinct advantage of being able to take the money, win or lose, unless it's in trusted escrow.

He can't. As far as I understand all the money is sent to a unique public address, thus trackable by anyone through block explorer. Every movement from this address must be to the winner otherwise everybody would know he may have cheated. (which would defeat the "undetected" part of the challenge).

[/quote
Sure he could.   There were about 131 BTC worth of tickets purchased.  He could have bought 130 BTC worth.  You need to look at the INPUT addresses, not the single destination address.  And since the input addreesses are not traceable to individuals, you don't know how many he purchased.

I'm not saying that he did it with one bitcoin.  I'm saying he could have done it with 130 Bitcoins.  You can't tell.]
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June 17, 2011, 04:42:04 PM
 #44

He can play with his own money and pay himself like a regular player when he wins.
BUT
If he loses, he has to pay up to the player that won instead, otherwise it would no longer be undetectable, so in my opinion yes, he could have bought 130/131 tickets himself BUT if someone else won he could NOT pay himself instead.

This means anyone playing still has the same chances, no matter if the operator plays or not if the statement is "It's cheat proof.". To cheat would mean taking money if someone who won should have gotten it instead.

You do NOT present a method to beat his system, you are just questioning his trustworthiness. If he really follows the outlined rules, he would not be able to send money to himself instead unnoticed if he didn't win or manipulate the system to make sure only his own tickets can win.

Edit:
It's cheat proof. If you can think of a way I can pay myself without everyone noticing I'll give you all the BTC I own!!
And, if that 1 in a thousand case does eventually happen, then you just pack it up and disappear.  And open bitlotto2.
^
This would be very noticeable. You don't win.

Of course he can just take the money any time and disappear! The question is, how can he pay himself by cheating ad thus increasing his odds without everyone noticing?

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June 17, 2011, 04:57:17 PM
 #45


First, he certainly made a clear challenge, an offer.  If I do X, he will pay me Y.  If you don't want to call it a bet, that's fine.  But that offer would be as legally binding as any other, like "if you work for an hour, I'll pay you $10."

You're being pedantic. You've taken a casual statement and trying to turn it into a legally binding offer. If you really wanted to take him up on that, the intelligent thing to do would be to ask him to confirm the sincerity of the offer. His "offer" lacked any specifics whatsoever so it is hard to take it seriously as "legally binding". You didn't bet anything in return. You just jumped on it and said "Gotcha! Pay up!".

Quote
Second, sure anyone can buy lots of tickets to stack the odds in their favor.  But the lottery owner had the distinct advantage of being able to take the money, win or lose, unless it's in trusted escrow.  So, no, it's incorrect to say that "anyone can do it", because the lottery owner has a HUGE advantage that no one else has.  He can take cash, win or lose.

The lottery owner can take the money at any time, if he chooses to be dishonest. But that has nothing to do with buying tickets. You continue to try to tie buying tickets with cheating. The lottery owner, if he chooses to buy tickets, has no advantage over other ticket buyers, since the block explorer makes all bets public and the method for choosing a winner is pre-determined and verifiable.

If the owner of Mt. Gox wanted to run off with all of the money and bitcoins he has been entrusted with, he could do so at any time.  If the operator of any of the public mining pools wanted to suddenly stop paying out and run off with the mined bitcoins, he could do so at any time. It would be criminal, and it would be obvious.

Quote
Finally, your third premise, that it would be obvious to all, if he ran off with the money, this is true,
Thank you for confirming that you did not win the supposed bet.

Quote
but my point is that such an unscrupulous lottery owner would be cheating everyone on the transactions where he wins.  What you call aggressive betting, I call "can't lose" betting.  

Like I have said before, he may have bought 130 of the 131 tickets in the June lotto, and you can't prove to me otherwise.  And if he did, that's more than "aggressive betting".  It's cheating some people out of 1 BTC.

First of all, you are the one making an accusation that he "may have" bought 130 tickets, it is your job to prove your claim, not anyone else's job to disprove it. Block explorer is out there for anyone to view. Why don't you go and look at all of the bets that were made last month and try to connect some of them together?

Second, suppose he did. Out of 131 tickets, he bought 130. That would mean only one other person spent any bitcoins. So he paid himself 130 bitcoins to win 1 bitcoin. Even if you accept that this is cheating, in this scenario he has only cheating *one* person out of *one* bitcoin.

What you are suggesting is that a lottery operator could bet 130 bitcoins in order to win 1 bitcoin. While it may be possible, it would be a very dumb bet.  Nor does it seem like a scenario worth worrying about.  I'd be much more concerned about the pool operators and exchange operators, who are dealing with much larger sums of money, and don't need to outpay their customers 99 to 1 in order to pull off a fraud.
 

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jerfelix
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June 17, 2011, 06:46:58 PM
 #46


First, he certainly made a clear challenge, an offer.  If I do X, he will pay me Y.  If you don't want to call it a bet, that's fine.  But that offer would be as legally binding as any other, like "if you work for an hour, I'll pay you $10."

You're being pedantic. You've taken a casual statement and trying to turn it into a legally binding offer. If you really wanted to take him up on that, the intelligent thing to do would be to ask him to confirm the sincerity of the offer. His "offer" lacked any specifics whatsoever so it is hard to take it seriously as "legally binding". You didn't bet anything in return. You just jumped on it and said "Gotcha! Pay up!".

Quote
Second, sure anyone can buy lots of tickets to stack the odds in their favor.  But the lottery owner had the distinct advantage of being able to take the money, win or lose, unless it's in trusted escrow.  So, no, it's incorrect to say that "anyone can do it", because the lottery owner has a HUGE advantage that no one else has.  He can take cash, win or lose.

The lottery owner can take the money at any time, if he chooses to be dishonest. But that has nothing to do with buying tickets. You continue to try to tie buying tickets with cheating. The lottery owner, if he chooses to buy tickets, has no advantage over other ticket buyers, since the block explorer makes all bets public and the method for choosing a winner is pre-determined and verifiable.

If the owner of Mt. Gox wanted to run off with all of the money and bitcoins he has been entrusted with, he could do so at any time.  If the operator of any of the public mining pools wanted to suddenly stop paying out and run off with the mined bitcoins, he could do so at any time. It would be criminal, and it would be obvious.

Quote
Finally, your third premise, that it would be obvious to all, if he ran off with the money, this is true,
Thank you for confirming that you did not win the supposed bet.

Quote
but my point is that such an unscrupulous lottery owner would be cheating everyone on the transactions where he wins.  What you call aggressive betting, I call "can't lose" betting.  

Like I have said before, he may have bought 130 of the 131 tickets in the June lotto, and you can't prove to me otherwise.  And if he did, that's more than "aggressive betting".  It's cheating some people out of 1 BTC.

First of all, you are the one making an accusation that he "may have" bought 130 tickets, it is your job to prove your claim, not anyone else's job to disprove it. Block explorer is out there for anyone to view. Why don't you go and look at all of the bets that were made last month and try to connect some of them together?




Second, suppose he did. Out of 131 tickets, he bought 130. That would mean only one other person spent any bitcoins. So he paid himself 130 bitcoins to win 1 bitcoin. Even if you accept that this is cheating, in this scenario he has only cheating *one* person out of *one* bitcoin.

What you are suggesting is that a lottery operator could bet 130 bitcoins in order to win 1 bitcoin. While it may be possible, it would be a very dumb bet.  Nor does it seem like a scenario worth worrying about.  I'd be much more concerned about the pool operators and exchange operators, who are dealing with much larger sums of money, and don't need to outpay their customers 99 to 1 in order to pull off a fraud.
 

You have so many factual errors, I'm not sure where to start.

First, you act as if an agreement requires me to put up some kind of wager.  No, he made a very clear offer to pay for me to complete a task, and I did it.  When you accept a job offer, do you put up something in case you fail to deliver?  "Ok 10K per month sounds good, but I'll pay you 5K if I don't show up for work."  That's ridiculous.  He made an offer, I accepted.  I performed the work.

Second, I am NOT making an accusation that he bought 130 BTC worth of tickets.  I am making the claim that it's possible to cheat.  And I have proven that already, to the point where no one can dispute the possibility that he or his shills could have bought the vast majority of the tickets.  The best you could offer was that it wouldn't be a good investment, which, of course, is no proof.  So I stand by my statement that no one can prove that it didn't happen, so therefore it's proof that the lottery can be cheated and therefore I proved my case.

Third, you are demonstrating that you do not understand his lottery, by claiming that in the 130 to 1 scenario, only one person would be out any money.  In fact, entries are .25 BTC.

Fourth, if I could make nearly 10% annually on my money, with little risk, I'd say that's a really GOOD investment.  It is completely possible for a scammer to set up a lottery, and convince just 4 people per month to enter, and virtually guarantee that you are just taking their money, month after month.  Investing 130 BTC, cheating 4 people to gain 1 BTC per month, with the very small possibility that the scammer might have to "pack it up" - being approximately once every 11 years.  I would say that's a very good return on investment.

Fifth, I never accused bitlotto of running a scam lotto.  In fact, I believe it is legit.  But I think he was being far too risky in putting a challenge out there if he didn't intend to live up to his end of the bargain.  And I believe that if he wants it to eliminate one vector of cheating, he must use trusted edcrow.

Sixth, I gave multiple scenarios - one where a scammer buys 130 BTC worth of tickets, and another where he buys 90 BTC worth.  They have different odds and payouts....  choose the one you like better.  If he had a legitimate pot of 40 BTC, and he had a bankrole of 90, he could take a pretty good chance at  making a much better return on investment.  Having a nearly 70% chance of making 44% return sounds pretty good to me, especially when the downside is that you ALSO make 44% return, but you have to close up shop for a while.

This has some similarities to a well known stock scam, where you prove your worthiness by flooding the pool and playing the odds.
http://totse.info/en/bad_ideas/scams_and_rip_offs/165700.html

You throw out "being pedantic" as if you learned a new word.  In fact, precision in agreements is important, and I'm quite confident that the vast majority of judges in my jurisdiction would agree that the statement made was a binding offer.  They may or may not agree that I met the conditions for payout, but I'm certain they'd agree that a binding offer was made.  You see, pedantry is important in legal analysis.


Once again, I repeat, I am not accusing, and never have accused the guy of running a scam lotto.  My gut feel is that it's legit.  But my contention is that it's not provably honest, and that trusted escrow would move it one step closer.
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June 17, 2011, 07:13:04 PM
 #47

You haven't proven anything. Me buying tons of tickets is not me cheating but me playing the lottery! Everyone is free to buy as many as they want. Each ticket carries the same odds. Its a RAFFLE style lottery! Obviously if you buy more you have a total better chance of winning. Got spare money? Spent 1,000 BTC and you'll likely win! BUT you could also lose. Same for me. I designed it this way so not even I can get better odds than anyone else. Me buying tickets only increases the pot that OTHER people could win. I can't guarantee a win any better than anyone else.

*If I don't pay the legitimate winner everyone would know*. If I win BitLotto it's because I won! (I don't because of stuff like this thread will happen everywhere!) Even if I show I can't cheat there will be people who don't believe!

I'd LOVE to do escrow. Eventually thought someone has to hit "OK" or "PAY", why add more people that have to be trusted when it can be one? I honestly can't think of reducing the trust to no one. Someone or some site is needed. People risk their money to win big. Part of that risk of course is will I pay. As the game goes one this trust will develop. There is no way around it.

So FAR I haven't had a single complaint of cheating! (other than you of course trying to say it's possible) And that's pretty good I think when we are talking about over 1,000 USD and over 100 players!


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June 17, 2011, 07:18:51 PM
 #48

Please people calm down  Kiss

It would be really great if we could sort this out. Let's forget about the bet/Bitlotto and focus on the lottery architecture.
If we can design a lottery system that can't be manipulated by the operator (except for the obvious run away and disappear for eternity) it would be awesome.

I don't think there is any real world lottery that is so robust that even the operator can play without being accused to manipulate the results.
Also, if we can find flaws in the current system and provide robust alternatives, I'm sure Bitlotto will implement them.
So let's try to find a recipe where the operator could manipulate the results.

If I understood correctly, it currently work like this:
- You buy a ticket by sending 0.25 BTC to a unique and public address.
- Your ticket number is the hash of this very transaction.
- The winning "ticket" is computed through a public algorithm, from public data (hash of a future bloc + real world lottery).
- When the winning ticket is declared, 99% of what has been sent to the public unique address is sent back to the address used to buy the winning "ticket".

Differences with real life lotteries:
- Anybody can see how many tickets have been purchased at any point.
- The ticket number of all the entrants is publicly available (it's the hash of the tx) and timestamped.

Manipulation scenarios
1 - The operator buys 90% of the tickets, hidden behind a flock of anonymous addresses:
- The operator can do that, drawing after drawing, and constantly secure the gains back to himself.
- To do that, he needs to send 9 times more bitcoins to the public address than what has been sent by all other players.
- But any single player can do it as well. If you want to secure the gains, just buy 90% of the tickets yourself. Since the recipient address is public, you know exactly how much tickets you have to buy.
You don't know how many entering tickets are controlled by a single individual, but you do know how many you control. If you want to improve your chances, you can always do it.

For this specific scenario, I think the bitlotto architecture is robust. (Unlike any real life lottery).
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June 17, 2011, 07:20:22 PM
 #49

Third, you are demonstrating that you do not understand his lottery, by claiming that in the 130 to 1 scenario, only one person would be out any money.  In fact, entries are .25 BTC.
Actually you are. Tickets used to be 1 BTC.


Quote
Fifth, I never accused bitlotto of running a scam lotto.
Your first post was edited to give the impression that I can't be trusted!


Quote
 
This has some similarities to a well known stock scam, where you prove your worthiness by flooding the pool and playing the odds.
http://totse.info/en/bad_ideas/scams_and_rip_offs/165700.html
So ALL raffle draws are SCAMS?


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June 17, 2011, 07:26:45 PM
 #50

Please people calm down  Kiss

It would be really great if we could sort this out. Let's forget about the bet/Bitlotto and focus on the lottery architecture.
If we can design a lottery system that can't be manipulated by the operator (except for the obvious run away and disappear for eternity) it would be awesome.

I don't think there is any real world lottery that is so robust that even the operator can play without being accused to manipulate the results.
Also, if we can find flaws in the current system and provide robust alternatives, I'm sure Bitlotto will implement them.
So let's try to find a recipe where the operator could manipulate the results.

If I understood correctly, it currently work like this:
- You buy a ticket by sending 0.25 BTC to a unique and public address.
- Your ticket number is the hash of this very transaction.
- The winning "ticket" is computed through a public algorithm, from public data (hash of a future bloc + real world lottery).
- When the winning ticket is declared, 99% of what has been sent to the public unique address is sent back to the address used to buy the winning "ticket".

Differences with real life lotteries:
- Anybody can see how many tickets have been purchased at any point.
- The ticket number of all the entrants is publicly available (it's the hash of the tx) and timestamped.

Manipulation scenarios
1 - The operator buys 90% of the tickets, hidden behind a flock of anonymous addresses:
- The operator can do that, drawing after drawing, and constantly secure the gains back to himself.
- To do that, he needs to send 9 times more bitcoins to the public address than what has been sent by all other players.
- But any single player can do it as well. If you want to secure the gains, just buy 90% of the tickets yourself. Since the recipient address is public, you know exactly how much tickets you have to buy.
You don't know how many entering tickets are controlled by a single individual, but you do know how many you control. If you want to improve your chances, you can always do it.

For this specific scenario, I think the bitlotto architecture is robust. (Unlike any real life lottery).
THANK YOU! Of course, if there is a flaw I'll fix it. That is kind of cool to think that I could be the first to create a lottery where the owner can play and can't cheat!!

-really the only way to cheat would be to manipulate the outcome of the USA mega millions draw! GOOD LUCK with that!

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June 17, 2011, 07:28:40 PM
 #51

If we can design a lottery system that can't be manipulated by the operator (except for the obvious run away and disappear for eternity) it would be awesome.
We can and have done. See bitlotto.com! LOL.

*Next Draw Feb 1*  BitLotto: monthly raffle (0.25 BTC per ticket) Completely transparent and impossible to manipulate who wins. TOR
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June 17, 2011, 08:24:42 PM
 #52

I just re-read the thread.
You've changed the title to "bets entire BTC fortune!" - Holy crap you didn't think I was betting the jackpot did you? That's not my money!!!
My BTC fortune is pretty much a couple BTC!!! I said "own" not "access to"!
 Shocked

I see now why you were trying so hard!!!

*Next Draw Feb 1*  BitLotto: monthly raffle (0.25 BTC per ticket) Completely transparent and impossible to manipulate who wins. TOR
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June 17, 2011, 10:27:53 PM
 #53

I just re-read the thread.
You've changed the title to "bets entire BTC fortune!" - Holy crap you didn't think I was betting the jackpot did you? That's not my money!!!
My BTC fortune is pretty much a couple BTC!!! I said "own" not "access to"!
 Shocked

I see now why you were trying so hard!!!

Naw, I'm just havin fun on a day off.  I'm really not worked up. I just enjoy spirited debate, and had some spare time.

Honestly, I'm not trying to pick on you or bitlotto, and I hope this leads to more business for you, assuming you're legit, of course.  You've been a great sport and very respectful.

Like one of the posts a few back, I'm interested in figuring out how the community can have the most ethical, provably honest lottery.  I think you're real close.  I feel like I found a loophole and I think it should be addressed, but it's good to get other people's opinions.  After all, I have nee wrong before!  (Once, when I accidentally bought pencils with erasers).

Forums suck for expressing true emotion, but I am really smiling through this whole thread.  I love it.  Call me weird.......   and no, I have no expectations of getting your bitcoins.  It's just fun to stir the pot a little.

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June 17, 2011, 10:36:03 PM
 #54

I just re-read the thread.
You've changed the title to "bets entire BTC fortune!" - Holy crap you didn't think I was betting the jackpot did you? That's not my money!!!
My BTC fortune is pretty much a couple BTC!!! I said "own" not "access to"!
 Shocked

I see now why you were trying so hard!!!

Naw, I'm just havin fun on a day off.  I'm really not worked up. I just enjoy spirited debate, and had some spare time.

Honestly, I'm not trying to pick on you or bitlotto, and I hope this leads to more business for you, assuming you're legit, of course.  You've been a great sport and very respectful.

Like one of the posts a few back, I'm interested in figuring out how the community can have the most ethical, provably honest lottery.  I think you're real close.  I feel like I found a loophole and I think it should be addressed, but it's good to get other people's opinions.  After all, I have nee wrong before!  (Once, when I accidentally bought pencils with erasers).

Forums suck for expressing true emotion, but I am really smiling through this whole thread.  I love it.  Call me weird.......   and no, I have no expectations of getting your bitcoins.  It's just fun to stir the pot a little.



go volunteer or something and where an I'm right T shirt while doing that. Then at least someone will benefit from your time.

I dont like the guy. How many reasons do I have? alot.
How many reasons do I need? none.
I just dont like the guy.

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June 17, 2011, 10:42:24 PM
 #55

Ok. I'm trying to be as honest and transparent as I can. If you can think of tweaks I could do I'd love to hear input. I kind of get what you were saying about me buying tickets but because I only get 1% of the tickets it doesn't work. 40% for sure it could work. The 1% makes it so I can't really buy a ton of tickets at way cheaper cost to win myself, AND it motivates me to create BitLotto into a long term successful business. If you also can think of ways of putting my money in trust to something beyond anyone's control I'd love to hear that too. I know you suggested using clearcoin but the problem still persists. Somebody has to give it the "ok".

Oh and can you please edit your edit of the first post? It kind of makes me sound like I'm cheating!

And good luck if you decide to buy a ticket!! Grin

I wish I could say I was laughing while debating but I'm tired, and was not sober for part of it!  Cheesy BitLotto is my beautiful perfect baby and it got me a *little* worked up. (I'm ok now though!)

*Next Draw Feb 1*  BitLotto: monthly raffle (0.25 BTC per ticket) Completely transparent and impossible to manipulate who wins. TOR
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lemonginger
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June 17, 2011, 10:50:15 PM
 #56

jerfelix: i think the thing you are missing is that yes, bitlotto has a small advantage in that their tickets cost .99 on the dollar, but they have the same odds as anyone else. sure they could put 700 of their own bitcoins in and have a large advantage in winning (and then disappear if they lost), but only the light risk and the 1% vig are advantages. You could also put 700 of your own bitcoins in and have the same large odds of winning, but you couldn't run away if you lost.

I agree that the flight risk is the biggest problem, and any lotto should have an escrow that has a lot of other business (so that by stealing short term lotto money they would be forgoing a lot of future profits) but other than that flight risk, its not like bitlotto can recycle the lotto money to increase their own chances of winning.
forests
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June 17, 2011, 11:17:04 PM
 #57

This is an interest debate. I've read through Bitlotto's website and statements in this topic, and I've found a way he could cheat.

The algorithm he uses to compare the sha-256 hash of the block hash and the mega ball number, against the transaction hash.  I haven't seen any place where he's disclosed this algorithm.

So as of now he could be cheating.  This is easy enough to fix though, by just disclosing the process so anyone can replicate it.
bitlotto
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June 17, 2011, 11:50:40 PM
 #58

This is an interest debate. I've read through Bitlotto's website and statements in this topic, and I've found a way he could cheat.

The algorithm he uses to compare the sha-256 hash of the block hash and the mega ball number, against the transaction hash.  I haven't seen any place where he's disclosed this algorithm.

So as of now he could be cheating.  This is easy enough to fix though, by just disclosing the process so anyone can replicate it.

Did you read: http://bitlotto.com/details.html ?
It's all there and always has been. Otherwise I could change how I pick the winner! I did change/tweak the method a few times before BUT EVERY TIME it was done well in advance of the draw and announced so I couldn't cheat.

*Next Draw Feb 1*  BitLotto: monthly raffle (0.25 BTC per ticket) Completely transparent and impossible to manipulate who wins. TOR
TOR2WEB
Donations to: 1JQdiQsjhV2uJ4Y8HFtdqteJsZhv835a8J are appreciated.
forests
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June 18, 2011, 12:52:19 AM
 #59

Did you read: http://bitlotto.com/details.html ?
It's all there and always has been. Otherwise I could change how I pick the winner! I did change/tweak the method a few times before BUT EVERY TIME it was done well in advance of the draw and announced so I couldn't cheat.

Sorry about that, don't know how I missed that page.

Quote
Jackpot size: 134.6 BTC (1,200 USD)
Secret Hash: 589db849967abfb35c85c9dd5db89ea0f814603acf9430b768474f5fc057962a
Block1: 127866 Block 2: 127867
Winning picks: ec88c8e216
Winner: 1FYLEjcJo9BiTEMet7GLpqbFJpTbnwhWWy
Winning hash: ec913c96b4315e4639539a5a58a3d8f9cb409b0cabe18597f3c3dd3c8788096

I'm not sure I'm clear on the formula yet.  What exactly does the secret hash mean?  I don't see a reference to it on the details page.
Did the winning picks come from the secret hash? or did you hash block1 & block2 together?
If the only relevant part of the winning picks are the digits, why does "ec" win? Those aren't digits.


cheers
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June 18, 2011, 12:57:26 AM
 #60

Did you read: http://bitlotto.com/details.html ?
It's all there and always has been. Otherwise I could change how I pick the winner! I did change/tweak the method a few times before BUT EVERY TIME it was done well in advance of the draw and announced so I couldn't cheat.

Sorry about that, don't know how I missed that page.

Quote
Jackpot size: 134.6 BTC (1,200 USD)
Secret Hash: 589db849967abfb35c85c9dd5db89ea0f814603acf9430b768474f5fc057962a
Block1: 127866 Block 2: 127867
Winning picks: ec88c8e216
Winner: 1FYLEjcJo9BiTEMet7GLpqbFJpTbnwhWWy
Winning hash: ec913c96b4315e4639539a5a58a3d8f9cb409b0cabe18597f3c3dd3c8788096

I'm not sure I'm clear on the formula yet.  What exactly does the secret hash mean?  I don't see a reference to it on the details page.
Did the winning picks come from the secret hash? or did you hash block1 & block2 together?
If the only relevant part of the winning picks are the digits, why does "ec" win? Those aren't digits.


cheers
That was the old method - it was too confusing and still could me manipulated with expensive super computers.

"ec" is just part of the hash. Each payment will have a hash 0-9 and a-f. All mixed up. The draw hash is compared to transaction hashes to find the winner. The hash can not be predicted or controlled since mega millions numbers are added after all the payments are in.

edit- 0-9

*Next Draw Feb 1*  BitLotto: monthly raffle (0.25 BTC per ticket) Completely transparent and impossible to manipulate who wins. TOR
TOR2WEB
Donations to: 1JQdiQsjhV2uJ4Y8HFtdqteJsZhv835a8J are appreciated.
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