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Author Topic: Ver versus Vays at Anarcapulco  (Read 675 times)
classicsucks
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February 28, 2017, 10:37:18 PM
 #1

Thoughts welcomed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdyIJ-BUPaU

=== Pro-Ver =======
Tone Vays said "Satoshi wasn't the best coder" to defend the Segwit fork. Tone Vays said he was "fine with $100 fees". Tone Vays said he was "fine with bitcoin only being useful for $100,000 transactions". Roger Ver made many salient points about problems people are experiencing due to full blocks, unconfirmed transactions, and high fees. Censorship was an issue that was clearly in favor of Ver. Tone Vays was unable to support his pro-Segwit stance with anything other than appeals to authority. Roger Ver had an excellent point about the "sunk cost fallacy" regarding the 5000 lines of Segwit code. Ver pointed out that Unlimited's Xthin blocks proposal was copied by Core devs with Compact Blocks. Ver pointed out that Bitcoin has an "underlying economic code" that is just as important as the software code.

=== Pro-Vays ======
Vays was correct that the core dev team is larger and technically more competent. Vays was correct that a soft fork would be less risky than a hard fork. Vays was reasonable in his reliance on technical experts.


Neither person is a technical expert, but this was refreshing in that they were able to stay focused on economic issues.
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According to NIST and ECRYPT II, the cryptographic algorithms used in Bitcoin are expected to be strong until at least 2030. (After that, it will not be too difficult to transition to different algorithms.)
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February 28, 2017, 10:54:49 PM
 #2

You forgot to mention that the event is put together by the David Icke/Alex Jones of the financial world

The event was organised by a former/still practicing alcoholic, who believes/promotes the idea that world leaders are Satanists, and also believes/promotes ancient religious prophecies about cycles in financial markets. The prophecies never happened, which prompted alot of backtracking ("we're still interpreting new developments in the timeline" Cheesy)

Vires in numeris
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March 01, 2017, 09:59:46 AM
 #3

You forgot to mention that the event is put together by the David Icke/Alex Jones of the financial world

The event was organised a former/still practicing alcoholic, who believes/promotes the idea that world leaders are Satanists, and also believes/promotes ancient religious prophecies about cycles in financial markets. The prophecies never happened, which prompted alot of backtracking ("we're still interpreting new developments in the timeline" Cheesy)

...annd why should anyone care about "the gossip" on two wack jobs who were peripherally involved in getting these two Bitcoin enthusiuasts together for a discussion?
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March 01, 2017, 10:04:10 AM
 #4

Everything I stated is an (easily discovered) fact

Vires in numeris
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March 01, 2017, 10:17:41 AM
 #5

Thoughts welcomed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdyIJ-BUPaU

=== Pro-Ver =======
Tone Vays said "Satoshi wasn't the best coder" to defend the Segwit fork. Tone Vays said he was "fine with $100 fees". Tone Vays said he was "fine with bitcoin only being useful for $100,000 transactions". Roger Ver made many salient points about problems people are experiencing due to full blocks, unconfirmed transactions, and high fees. Censorship was an issue that was clearly in favor of Ver. Tone Vays was unable to support his pro-Segwit stance with anything other than appeals to authority. Roger Ver had an excellent point about the "sunk cost fallacy" regarding the 5000 lines of Segwit code. Ver pointed out that Unlimited's Xthin blocks proposal was copied by Core devs with Compact Blocks. Ver pointed out that Bitcoin has an "underlying economic code" that is just as important as the software code.

=== Pro-Vays ======
Vays was correct that the core dev team is larger and technically more competent. Vays was correct that a soft fork would be less risky than a hard fork. Vays was reasonable in his reliance on technical experts.


Neither person is a technical expert, but this was refreshing in that they were able to stay focused on economic issues.

I think the debate was just pointless to be honest it was like an argument that a couple of my friends would have down the Pub.  No harm to Tone but some of his arguments are just ridiculous and when he says he will stay with and mine core no matter what just seems like he would be angry if it happened so he will not move his position.  (by the way i dont think that it will happen anyway)>  The debate that Johnny from Blockstream had latter was way better and he really gave a great argument for segwit.
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March 01, 2017, 12:05:58 PM
 #6

Though the debate was not that very convincing but it was fun to hear and listen. The bitcoin community gets excited by this kind of debates as it is connected to the solutions for the current problems in bitcoin. Hope they can establish facts that will convince miners to make a consensus so that problems today will be answered.

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March 01, 2017, 07:57:38 PM
 #7


I think the debate was just pointless to be honest it was like an argument that a couple of my friends would have down the Pub.  No harm to Tone but some of his arguments are just ridiculous and when he says he will stay with and mine core no matter what just seems like he would be angry if it happened so he will not move his position.  (by the way i dont think that it will happen anyway)>  The debate that Johnny from Blockstream had latter was way better and he really gave a great argument for segwit.

Yep I agree, Tone was just bad. Ver might be a little shrill, but I think he's righteous. I think his viewpoint is becoming more and more credible as bitcoin works less and less by day...

Here's Johnny:
https://youtu.be/JarEszFY1WY?t=307


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March 01, 2017, 09:02:10 PM
 #8

Thoughts welcomed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdyIJ-BUPaU

=== Pro-Ver =======
Tone Vays said "Satoshi wasn't the best coder" to defend the Segwit fork. Tone Vays said he was "fine with $100 fees". Tone Vays said he was "fine with bitcoin only being useful for $100,000 transactions". Roger Ver made many salient points about problems people are experiencing due to full blocks, unconfirmed transactions, and high fees. Censorship was an issue that was clearly in favor of Ver. Tone Vays was unable to support his pro-Segwit stance with anything other than appeals to authority. Roger Ver had an excellent point about the "sunk cost fallacy" regarding the 5000 lines of Segwit code. Ver pointed out that Unlimited's Xthin blocks proposal was copied by Core devs with Compact Blocks. Ver pointed out that Bitcoin has an "underlying economic code" that is just as important as the software code.

=== Pro-Vays ======
Vays was correct that the core dev team is larger and technically more competent. Vays was correct that a soft fork would be less risky than a hard fork. Vays was reasonable in his reliance on technical experts.


Neither person is a technical expert, but this was refreshing in that they were able to stay focused on economic issues.

Some really stupid argument Tone dared to bring up. Volkswagen, Kodak, Nokia were one of the biggest, trusted,... Go an trust BS core blindly all day...

Why the hack SW is not just live ?  Is there code inside from all star team, lost traction to the real needs? (Nokia style).

Things are changing, deal with it but change.


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A feature that needs more than one convincing argument is no and Satoshi owes me no proof.
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March 01, 2017, 09:18:10 PM
 #9

neither of these guys have any deep seated technical understanding. why the hell would i waste my time listening to what they have to say?

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Hydrogen
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March 01, 2017, 09:39:02 PM
 #10

The event was organised by a former/still practicing alcoholic, who believes/promotes the idea that world leaders are Satanists, and also believes/promotes ancient religious prophecies about cycles in financial markets.

What's wrong with that.

In this day and age, that may be preferable to the SJW opposite end of the spectrum where people pretend there is only one rational side to every story, due to an unwillingness to consider both sides of things.

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March 01, 2017, 09:59:18 PM
 #11

What's wrong with that.

It's all thoroughly and demonstrably ridiculous.

Vires in numeris
classicsucks
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March 02, 2017, 08:25:04 PM
 #12

neither of these guys have any deep seated technical understanding. why the hell would i waste my time listening to what they have to say?

It depends on what you mean by "technical" - I think Ver is on point regarding economics. Vays seems to understand the basics but ultimately is a bit of a sheep. Clearly bitcoin is facing major economic hurdles that the software devs are ignoring.  If you mean technical software-wise, the guys with "deep-seated technical understanding" are the people who got us in this mess in the first place!

In the next segment, Johnny Dilly (former Pantera Capital financial analyst, a seeming intelligent sort of fellow despite the ponytail) rambles on about all of the cool features Blockstream is developing, yet is utterly dumbstruck and has no answer for the glaring techincal problems facing bitcoin for the past year. There's an "elephant in the room".
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March 02, 2017, 09:12:25 PM
 #13

You forgot to mention that the event is put together by the David Icke/Alex Jones of the financial world

The event was organised by a former/still practicing alcoholic, who believes/promotes the idea that world leaders are Satanists, and also believes/promotes ancient religious prophecies about cycles in financial markets. The prophecies never happened, which prompted alot of backtracking ("we're still interpreting new developments in the timeline" Cheesy)

The world is controlled by freemasons. Freemasons started the American revolution and who was the first president george Washington- a Freemasons. Do a google search "Freemasons worship lucifer". Yes the world is controlled by lucifer worshipers...but they are deceived it is not lucifer he has fallen and he is known as Satan.Yes American has 4 million satanists and they are controlling your govt schools media and the catholic church their reality is the only one you will be fed...until armageddon and the end of the conspiracy
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March 02, 2017, 10:45:42 PM
 #14

The event was organised by a former/still practicing alcoholic, who believes/promotes the idea that world leaders are Satanists, and also believes/promotes ancient religious prophecies about cycles in financial markets. The prophecies never happened, which prompted alot of backtracking ("we're still interpreting new developments in the timeline" Cheesy)

Huh, I had no idea FirstWorldArmchairAnarchapulco is Anonymint's party.

I may have to go next year, just for the fun of causing some trouble and goading them into calling the police.

"Hello, police?  This is the leader of the anarchist convention.  We've got some nutjob insisting he be able to pay his way in using his own self-printed money.  Can you send over a squad car to regulate his trespassing?  Thanks."


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Monero
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whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
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March 03, 2017, 12:26:23 AM
 #15

The event was organised by a former/still practicing alcoholic, who believes/promotes the idea that world leaders are Satanists, and also believes/promotes ancient religious prophecies about cycles in financial markets. The prophecies never happened, which prompted alot of backtracking ("we're still interpreting new developments in the timeline" Cheesy)

Huh, I had no idea FirstWorldArmchairAnarchapulco is Anonymint's party.

I may have to go next year, just for the fun of causing some trouble and goading them into calling the police.

"Hello, police?  This is the leader of the anarchist convention.  We've got some nutjob insisting he be able to pay his way in using his own self-printed money.  Can you send over a squad car to regulate his trespassing?  Thanks."

Are you guys talking about Berwick from Dollar Vigilante? He has some good videos sometimes, but I think he goes a bit over the top sometimes. I remember the Shemitah thing, then the Super Shemitah thing lol, it sounds like a videogame or some sort of Dragon Ball villain name.

Anyway his Youtube channel has helped a lot of people getting into bitcoin so that is a positive.

As far as the video goes, I recommend seeing the Johnny one. Roger Ver is just not at the required level to be at the forefront of how bitcoin should scale or anything, he lacks the technical background, he can't see beyond "but we need more transaction volume so more people can send stuff fast and cheap so the price goes up". That's his whole thing basically lol.

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