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Author Topic: Big Blocks or SegWit? Ehtereim  (Read 556 times)
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March 01, 2017, 04:51:29 PM
 #1

How does Ethereim handle the scaling problem?  It looks like they will be soon having an insane transaction volume with all the members of the consortium joining and building apps.  Why does the Ethereim scaling strategy work there buy not on Bitcoin?
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Each block is stacked on top of the previous one. Adding another block to the top makes all lower blocks more difficult to remove: there is more "weight" above each block. A transaction in a block 6 blocks deep (6 confirmations) will be very difficult to remove.
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March 01, 2017, 06:04:23 PM
 #2

How does Ethereim handle the scaling problem?  It looks like they will be soon having an insane transaction volume with all the members of the consortium joining and building apps.  Why does the Ethereim scaling strategy work there buy not on Bitcoin?

Switching to POS = centralization...

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March 01, 2017, 06:12:03 PM
 #3

How does Ethereim handle the scaling problem?  It looks like they will be soon having an insane transaction volume with all the members of the consortium joining and building apps.  Why does the Ethereim scaling strategy work there buy not on Bitcoin?

Switching to POS = centralization...
Isn't it the other way around? Take Bitcoin as prime example, most of the hashrate centralized in China due to cheap electricity cost. In PoS there is no electricity cost which means that the network won't only be centralized in places with cheap electricity but can be anywhere -> decentralization.

To answer OP's question, in very basic terms. Ethereum uses the same concept as Bitcoin Unlimited = the miners choose how big the blocks are.
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March 01, 2017, 06:33:54 PM
 #4

How does Ethereim handle the scaling problem?  It looks like they will be soon having an insane transaction volume with all the members of the consortium joining and building apps.  Why does the Ethereim scaling strategy work there buy not on Bitcoin?

What the hell is an Ethereim?

How does Ethereim handle the scaling problem?  It looks like they will be soon having an insane transaction volume with all the members of the consortium joining and building apps.  Why does the Ethereim scaling strategy work there buy not on Bitcoin?

Switching to POS = centralization...
Isn't it the other way around? Take Bitcoin as prime example, most of the hashrate centralized in China due to cheap electricity cost. In PoS there is no electricity cost which means that the network won't only be centralized in places with cheap electricity but can be anywhere -> decentralization.

To answer OP's question, in very basic terms. Ethereum uses the same concept as Bitcoin Unlimited = the miners choose how big the blocks are.

Not really. PoS = big stakeholders rule, also, PoS is way more insecure than PoW. Nothing tops the security of bitcoin's PoW network with his huge hashing rate. Ethereum = banksters coin. Now big pocketed banks will call the shots.

BU just doesn't work, that's why it will never get anywhere. Bitcoin Core is the best we got nowadays objectively. Sure it sucks that china has cheap ass electricity which makes them big players in the mining game, specially when we have that Jihan idiot blocking segwit, but can we do? They still have to deal with the other parties (nodes, merchants, and wallet developers)

In BUcoin model, miners rule. In ETHcoin model, banksters rule.

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March 01, 2017, 07:56:04 PM
 #5

How does Ethereim handle the scaling problem?  It looks like they will be soon having an insane transaction volume with all the members of the consortium joining and building apps.  Why does the Ethereim scaling strategy work there buy not on Bitcoin?

It's simple ethereum are going to quit mining and switch over from proof of work(POW) to proof of stake (POS) and that concept alone entertains centralization that's why they have it that way.



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March 01, 2017, 07:58:55 PM
 #6

In Ethereum (please OP, correct the title, it reads horrible), they have an unit called "gas". It determines the fee paid for storage and computation.

From this reddit post:

Quote from: Reddit user JohnnyLatte
Ethereum has a gas limit rather than a block size. The gas limit is a cap on both processing and storage/bandwidth because the cost of a transaction/function is fixed in units of gas for each type of instruction.

The gas limit is voted up or down by each miner and each miner determines what gas price it is willing to accept which is like bitcoin transaction fees but on a per gas basis rather than a per transaction basis.

The "gas" unit has a price in Ether set by the miners.

At a first glance, it seems Ethereum works a bit like Bitcoin Unlimited, because the miners vote the gas limit which is the equivalent for the maximal block size. Can someone confirm this?

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TKeenan
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March 01, 2017, 10:45:14 PM
 #7

In Ethereum (please OP, correct the title, it reads horrible), they have an unit called "gas". It determines the fee paid for storage and computation.

From this reddit post:

Quote from: Reddit user JohnnyLatte
Ethereum has a gas limit rather than a block size. The gas limit is a cap on both processing and storage/bandwidth because the cost of a transaction/function is fixed in units of gas for each type of instruction.

The gas limit is voted up or down by each miner and each miner determines what gas price it is willing to accept which is like bitcoin transaction fees but on a per gas basis rather than a per transaction basis.

The "gas" unit has a price in Ether set by the miners.

At a first glance, it seems Ethereum works a bit like Bitcoin Unlimited, because the miners vote the gas limit which is the equivalent for the maximal block size. Can someone confirm this?

So then, Etheriem blockchain won't get too bloated? 
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March 01, 2017, 11:04:13 PM
 #8

How does Ethereim handle the scaling problem?  It looks like they will be soon having an insane transaction volume with all the members of the consortium joining and building apps.  Why does the Ethereim scaling strategy work there buy not on Bitcoin?
Because it's not like the bitcoin dev still playing on the telenovela and drama. But Currently, ethereum still POW, with no deadline the Casper Pos system will be launching. and I think ethereum will become the hybrid system. IMO Casper pos is not making ethereum change into the POS system for 100%.

Yesterday i make a transaction for ethereum and i just take 2 minutes to deliver. And bitcoin take an hour. A lot of the gap for the scaling range among ethereum and bitcoin.

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March 02, 2017, 12:18:16 AM
 #9

My hope is Ethereum will die (crash & burn under its own security flaws + scaling dilemma) and be replaced by something that can scale decentralized.

Let's see what happens...
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March 02, 2017, 04:38:26 AM
 #10

How does Ethereim handle the scaling problem?  It looks like they will be soon having an insane transaction volume with all the members of the consortium joining and building apps.  Why does the Ethereim scaling strategy work there buy not on Bitcoin?

What the hell is an Ethereim?

How does Ethereim handle the scaling problem?  It looks like they will be soon having an insane transaction volume with all the members of the consortium joining and building apps.  Why does the Ethereim scaling strategy work there buy not on Bitcoin?

Switching to POS = centralization...
Isn't it the other way around? Take Bitcoin as prime example, most of the hashrate centralized in China due to cheap electricity cost. In PoS there is no electricity cost which means that the network won't only be centralized in places with cheap electricity but can be anywhere -> decentralization.

To answer OP's question, in very basic terms. Ethereum uses the same concept as Bitcoin Unlimited = the miners choose how big the blocks are.

Not really. PoS = big stakeholders rule, also, PoS is way more insecure than PoW. Nothing tops the security of bitcoin's PoW network with his huge hashing rate. Ethereum = banksters coin. Now big pocketed banks will call the shots.

BU just doesn't work, that's why it will never get anywhere. Bitcoin Core is the best we got nowadays objectively. Sure it sucks that china has cheap ass electricity which makes them big players in the mining game, specially when we have that Jihan idiot blocking segwit, but can we do? They still have to deal with the other parties (nodes, merchants, and wallet developers)

In BUcoin model, miners rule. In ETHcoin model, banksters rule.

Chinese Mining Pools have a Combined 67% of BTC mining for over a year,
The only security BTC has is what they grant it, since they can rewrite the last 12 hours of the blockchain on a whim.

PoW is not secure, it has larger #s , but those #s are pointless due to a 51% attack.

PoS is much more secure, that is why ETH is switching.

 Cool
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March 02, 2017, 09:53:34 AM
 #11

How does Ethereim handle the scaling problem?  It looks like they will be soon having an insane transaction volume with all the members of the consortium joining and building apps.  Why does the Ethereim scaling strategy work there buy not on Bitcoin?

What the hell is an Ethereim?

How does Ethereim handle the scaling problem?  It looks like they will be soon having an insane transaction volume with all the members of the consortium joining and building apps.  Why does the Ethereim scaling strategy work there buy not on Bitcoin?

Switching to POS = centralization...
Isn't it the other way around? Take Bitcoin as prime example, most of the hashrate centralized in China due to cheap electricity cost. In PoS there is no electricity cost which means that the network won't only be centralized in places with cheap electricity but can be anywhere -> decentralization.

To answer OP's question, in very basic terms. Ethereum uses the same concept as Bitcoin Unlimited = the miners choose how big the blocks are.

Not really. PoS = big stakeholders rule, also, PoS is way more insecure than PoW. Nothing tops the security of bitcoin's PoW network with his huge hashing rate. Ethereum = banksters coin. Now big pocketed banks will call the shots.

BU just doesn't work, that's why it will never get anywhere. Bitcoin Core is the best we got nowadays objectively. Sure it sucks that china has cheap ass electricity which makes them big players in the mining game, specially when we have that Jihan idiot blocking segwit, but can we do? They still have to deal with the other parties (nodes, merchants, and wallet developers)

In BUcoin model, miners rule. In ETHcoin model, banksters rule.

Chinese Mining Pools have a Combined 67% of BTC mining for over a year,
The only security BTC has is what they grant it, since they can rewrite the last 12 hours of the blockchain on a whim.

PoW is not secure, it has larger #s , but those #s are pointless due to a 51% attack.

PoS is much more secure, that is why ETH is switching.

 Cool


Oh no - not again - you lost all this discussion about  Poor Org Shit so many times now. Security in open internet comes from work, not from bank like ownership.

Carpe diem  -  cut the down side  -  be anti-fragile
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March 02, 2017, 10:33:13 AM
 #12

Oh no - not again - you lost all this discussion about  Poor Org Shit so many times now. Security in open internet comes from work, not from bank like ownership.
Well, it really make sense if actual owners of coins held accountable for security and updates.
We see how miners usurped power in ETH and rewrite transactions to get money for themselves.
We see how miners usurped power in Bitcoin and made it unusable for everyday transactions.
We see how miners usurped power in LTC and trying to delay major update Litecoin users want to implement. No matter how good or bad segwit is, miners just trying to block segwit in litecoin because they can.
At least PoS coins can have clear consensus and implement hard forks without all this drama.
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March 02, 2017, 11:15:32 AM
 #13

How does Ethereim handle the scaling problem?  It looks like they will be soon having an insane transaction volume with all the members of the consortium joining and building apps.  Why does the Ethereim scaling strategy work there buy not on Bitcoin?

Switching to POS = centralization...

i always wonder how pos coins handle block limit? and transaction getting stuck? they have the same issue as a pow right? or maybe not because confirmation and fee go to everyone, who is minting because they are the mienrs, i would like to have an explanation on this thanks



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Rainbot
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March 02, 2017, 11:36:12 AM
 #14


Not really. PoS = big stakeholders rule,
Wrong. Latest info that i've read few months ago was that you need 32 ETH to stake. So there should easily be tens of thousands of possible stakers.

My hope is Ethereum will die (crash & burn under its own security flaws + scaling dilemma) and be replaced by something that can scale decentralized.

Let's see what happens...
You say that for every project, eventually you'll be right since obviously some of them will crash and die, and you'll be like: I told you so, i was right !
Let's go with the small possibility that ethereum will fail; Even if it does, it still changed blockchain technology as we know it, forever. All blockchain was about was transactions, before ethereum happened. It's like the transition from horse carriage to a car, and you know it, probably won't admit it tho.
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March 02, 2017, 12:30:23 PM
 #15

Chinese Mining Pools have a Combined 67% of BTC mining for over a year,
The only security BTC has is what they grant it, since they can rewrite the last 12 hours of the blockchain on a whim.

PoW is not secure, it has larger #s , but those #s are pointless due to a 51% attack.

PoS is much more secure, that is why ETH is switching.

 Cool


Oh no - not again - you lost all this discussion about  Poor Org Shit so many times now. Security in open internet comes from work, not from bank like ownership.


Never lost one , to your dumb ass.   Cheesy

China completely dominates PoW based BTC, only a fool denies that.
It has no security except your Trust in China.
BTC=Better Trust China

 Cool
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March 02, 2017, 12:33:36 PM
 #16

How does Ethereim handle the scaling problem?  It looks like they will be soon having an insane transaction volume with all the members of the consortium joining and building apps.  Why does the Ethereim scaling strategy work there buy not on Bitcoin?

Switching to POS = centralization...

i always wonder how pos coins handle block limit? and transaction getting stuck? they have the same issue as a pow right? or maybe not because confirmation and fee go to everyone, who is minting because they are the mienrs, i would like to have an explanation on this thanks

Transactions are not getting stuck on any of the Alts, because they all have multiple times the Transaction Capacity of BitCrap.
And can easily handle what is currently crashing BTC.

LTC (for the PoW lovers) has 4X the capacity of BTC

ZEIT (PoST) has 20X the capacity of BTC.

And it is all due to the fact we both have faster block speeds.

 Cool

FYI:
PoS coins handle transactions in the order they are created,
PoW coins handle transactions in the order of whoever pays a Higher Fee (Tainted toward the rich).

This means PoS coins would never have these massive delays like PoW, since on PoS , jumping in front of others is not being done.  Wink
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March 02, 2017, 12:37:31 PM
 #17

How does Ethereim handle the scaling problem?  It looks like they will be soon having an insane transaction volume with all the members of the consortium joining and building apps.  Why does the Ethereim scaling strategy work there buy not on Bitcoin?

Switching to POS = centralization...

i always wonder how pos coins handle block limit? and transaction getting stuck? they have the same issue as a pow right? or maybe not because confirmation and fee go to everyone, who is minting because they are the mienrs, i would like to have an explanation on this thanks

Transactions are not getting stuck on any of the Alts, because they all have multiple times the Transaction Capacity of BitCrap.
And can easily handle what is currently crashing BTC.

LTC (for the PoW lovers) has 4X the capacity of BTC

ZEIT (PoST) has 20X the capacity of BTC.

And it is all due to the fact we both have faster block speeds.

 Cool


.... and market cap = trust ? 

Carpe diem  -  cut the down side  -  be anti-fragile
A feature that needs more than one convincing argument is no and Satoshi owes me no proof.
My coding style is legendary but limited to 1MB, sorry but cannot come much over my C64, Bill Gates and Tom Bombadil
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March 02, 2017, 12:42:46 PM
 #18

How does Ethereim handle the scaling problem?  It looks like they will be soon having an insane transaction volume with all the members of the consortium joining and building apps.  Why does the Ethereim scaling strategy work there buy not on Bitcoin?

Switching to POS = centralization...

i always wonder how pos coins handle block limit? and transaction getting stuck? they have the same issue as a pow right? or maybe not because confirmation and fee go to everyone, who is minting because they are the mienrs, i would like to have an explanation on this thanks

Transactions are not getting stuck on any of the Alts, because they all have multiple times the Transaction Capacity of BitCrap.
And can easily handle what is currently crashing BTC.

LTC (for the PoW lovers) has 4X the capacity of BTC

ZEIT (PoST) has 20X the capacity of BTC.

And it is all due to the fact we both have faster block speeds.

 Cool


.... and market cap = trust ?  

Market cap = current manipulation

Do you really believe this product that has declined in usability has actually increased in value and stabilized at the ~ price of gold.
China is playing you guys for fools.  Tongue

Artificial Price Manipulation is not a technological innovation, a lot of you are going to learn this lesson the hard way.   Wink

 Cool

FYI:
One reason so many of you are so easy fooled , is that you do not compartmentalize.
You associate Price with Technical Superiority and this causes you to make foolish choices.

 
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March 02, 2017, 01:19:04 PM
 #19

How does Ethereim handle the scaling problem?  It looks like they will be soon having an insane transaction volume with all the members of the consortium joining and building apps.  Why does the Ethereim scaling strategy work there buy not on Bitcoin?

Switching to POS = centralization...

i always wonder how pos coins handle block limit? and transaction getting stuck? they have the same issue as a pow right? or maybe not because confirmation and fee go to everyone, who is minting because they are the mienrs, i would like to have an explanation on this thanks

Transactions are not getting stuck on any of the Alts, because they all have multiple times the Transaction Capacity of BitCrap.
And can easily handle what is currently crashing BTC.

LTC (for the PoW lovers) has 4X the capacity of BTC

ZEIT (PoST) has 20X the capacity of BTC.

And it is all due to the fact we both have faster block speeds.

 Cool


.... and market cap = trust ?  

Market cap = current manipulation

Do you really believe this product that has declined in usability has actually increased in value and stabilized at the ~ price of gold.
China is playing you guys for fools.  Tongue

Artificial Price Manipulation is not a technological innovation, a lot of you are going to learn this lesson the hard way.   Wink

 Cool

FYI:
One reason so many of you are so easy fooled , is that you do not compartmentalize.
You associate Price with Technical Superiority and this causes you to make foolish choices.

 

The 'usability' is getting now more and more like gold - it's more scarce, more secure, costly to dig and sadly  getting close to 'heavy to move' as gold...

Carpe diem  -  cut the down side  -  be anti-fragile
A feature that needs more than one convincing argument is no and Satoshi owes me no proof.
My coding style is legendary but limited to 1MB, sorry but cannot come much over my C64, Bill Gates and Tom Bombadil
kiklo
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March 02, 2017, 01:32:34 PM
 #20

The 'usability' is getting now more and more like gold - it's more scarce, more secure, costly to dig and sadly  getting close to 'heavy to move' as gold...

BTC only has 2  Uses,

1. Store of Value
2. Transmission of Value

That is it , nothing else.
Gold has real world uses in multiple fields that nothing else can be used for.
And when the price of gold drops these other uses , create a cushioning to it's price drop.

BTC is losing it's 2nd uses, due to the ever increasing fees.
A Virtual Store of Value that is not easily transferred is beyond stupid and has little value,
because at the end of the day , a massive expenditure of Fiat is required to keep the Energy Wasteful BTC running.

As block rewards drop , and transactions are so high , that everyone uses cheaper & faster alternatives.

Guess what , BTC then loses it #1 Store of Value usage and the price crashes to ZERO!
And it has no other uses to stabilize its price on the way down.  Tongue

People need to study this term Priced Out of the Market . (This is what is happening to BTC right now)
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/priced-out.asp

 Cool
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