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Author Topic: Ok, effected by block size for first time, time to fix  (Read 1369 times)
Pettuh4
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March 04, 2017, 01:58:09 PM
 #21

So as a legit customer, for the first time I was effected by the BSU (blocksize issue) I paid the fee, and it still did not go through the fee was

This sh*t has to be fixed up and soon. Also I feel segwit seems to not go far enough as to size.

Why are we using a block size that is years out of date given the demand and tech?

I jsut don't get how the miners cannot see this will delay/hamper BTC growth.

Say that again my brother, this issue needs fixing soonest and the miners don't seem to care that much and the call for an increase in block size is laudable but the concentration seems to be on segwit/BU and I don't know what's going to happen next meanwhile a lot of us have invested heavily hoping to make some dividends-that's my dilemma.
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March 04, 2017, 04:27:34 PM
 #22

So as a legit customer, for the first time I was effected by the BSU (blocksize issue) I paid the fee, and it still did not go through the fee was

This sh*t has to be fixed up and soon. Also I feel segwit seems to not go far enough as to size.

Why are we using a block size that is years out of date given the demand and tech?

I jsut don't get how the miners cannot see this will delay/hamper BTC growth.

You're just realizing this now that it's a problem?

It should have been obvious a long time ago this would happen, especially
when you had Gavin talking about it.

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March 04, 2017, 06:42:46 PM
 #23

I mean how long do you think they are going to keep supporting everyone else for free, when no one else does anything for free.
There are benefits of running a node, and that's why a fair number of reasonable people are running them.
Ok, You all heard Lauda, Quit being a full node for BTC,
BTC does not want or need you, so don't waste your money on running a BTC full node.
How did you come from "benefits of running a node to", "quit being a full node for BTC" Huh

They could set it at 1.5mb and then increase as needed, no muss no fuss. Miners could change their max default to 2MB and update if needed, because as you say they don't want alot of empty space. However that still does not stop some miners that only include 1 transactions in their block , they are wasting a boatload of space and that is happening right now.
Seems like BTC core wants to hamstring the miners to try and keep them under their thumb, that has failed.  Cheesy
No, that's not how it works. The miners can mine whatever they want, but you with your node settings choose to not process anything above XX (user configurable) up to a certain depth.

Say that again my brother, this issue needs fixing soonest and the miners don't seem to care that much and the call for an increase in block size is laudable but the concentration seems to be on segwit/BU and I don't know what's going to happen next meanwhile a lot of us have invested heavily hoping to make some dividends-that's my dilemma.
Miners don't seem to care about scaling otherwise Segwit would be adopted. If someone was truly concerned with the users (e.g. as a fair deal of BU supporters claim), they'd drop their political stance in the short term to solve the congestion. It seems that they aren't.

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March 04, 2017, 06:50:25 PM
 #24

So as a legit customer, for the first time I was effected by the BSU (blocksize issue) I paid the fee

How come everyone else has to change, just because you don't like the way the system performs?

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March 04, 2017, 07:15:12 PM
 #25

So as a legit customer, for the first time I was effected by the BSU (blocksize issue) I paid the fee, and it still did not go through the fee was

This sh*t has to be fixed up and soon. Also I feel segwit seems to not go far enough as to size.

Why are we using a block size that is years out of date given the demand and tech?

I jsut don't get how the miners cannot see this will delay/hamper BTC growth.

Apparently people don't care since the price keeps going up, which means bitcoin is valued as digital gold over digital currency.

If you want bitcoin to scale, blame the miners to not activate segwit.

Only segwit and LN can give you the fast, instant, cheap performance you want. Onchain scaling will never deliver that, it will remain a better gold without LN and segwit, so before complaining about "BSU" again, think.
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March 04, 2017, 07:27:24 PM
 #26

btc did a hard fork back in 2013, with no warning....so it should be ok with plenty of warning

that was a potential disaster that every single user was massively incentivised to carry out. there's no comparison between that and the current situation but maybe it'll take disaster to force something.
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March 04, 2017, 07:30:39 PM
 #27

So as a legit customer, for the first time I was effected by the BSU (blocksize issue) I paid the fee
How come everyone else has to change, just because you don't like the way the system performs?
A good question has been raised.

Apparently people don't care since the price keeps going up, which means bitcoin is valued as digital gold over digital currency.

If you want bitcoin to scale, blame the miners to not activate segwit.
Indeed. Whoever is dissatisfied with the current situation, they should contact their local/known miners/pools and ask them to support Segwit.

Only segwit and LN can give you the fast, instant, cheap performance you want.
LN is still a concept for the future. Segwit is ready today, it just needs activation.

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CyberKuro
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March 04, 2017, 09:41:23 PM
 #28

So as a legit customer, for the first time I was effected by the BSU (blocksize issue) I paid the fee, and it still did not go through the fee was

This sh*t has to be fixed up and soon. Also I feel segwit seems to not go far enough as to size.

Why are we using a block size that is years out of date given the demand and tech?

I jsut don't get how the miners cannot see this will delay/hamper BTC growth.

The problem seems to be that the Core development team is skittish on implementing a hard fork solution. They want to try Segwit and Lightning network since those are soft fork solutions. Changing the blocksize would only require altering a few lines of code; however, they would then need to coordinate a hard fork.

The best way to go about it is the soft fork but consensus is too high a threshold of 95%, we are split between the original 1MB group, Lighting, and Segwit I run Core so it's on Segwit's list but the longer we are in this state of transaction hell the more it forces people to start to really consider what the community should do and make a decision.
Either way if something seems to happen in the next few months we will be fine although there is the risk the community will coordinate the fork.
Those who still argue each other will lead us to nowhere and stuck with this situation for years (already).
Miners can see this problem, but can't you see how glad they are? To get such amount of 'huge' fees for so many unconfirmed transaction? It is a gold mine for them, that's why they seems like enjoy this BSU and don't want to support SegWit.
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March 05, 2017, 12:28:39 PM
Last edit: March 05, 2017, 01:07:56 PM by freedomno1
 #29

So as a legit customer, for the first time I was effected by the BSU (blocksize issue) I paid the fee, and it still did not go through the fee was

This sh*t has to be fixed up and soon. Also I feel segwit seems to not go far enough as to size.

Why are we using a block size that is years out of date given the demand and tech?

I jsut don't get how the miners cannot see this will delay/hamper BTC growth.

The problem seems to be that the Core development team is skittish on implementing a hard fork solution. They want to try Segwit and Lightning network since those are soft fork solutions. Changing the blocksize would only require altering a few lines of code; however, they would then need to coordinate a hard fork.

The best way to go about it is the soft fork but consensus is too high a threshold of 95%, we are split between the original 1MB group, Lighting, and Segwit I run Core so it's on Segwit's list but the longer we are in this state of transaction hell the more it forces people to start to really consider what the community should do and make a decision.
Either way if something seems to happen in the next few months we will be fine although there is the risk the community will coordinate the fork.
Those who still argue each other will lead us to nowhere and stuck with this situation for years (already).
Miners can see this problem, but can't you see how glad they are? To get such amount of 'huge' fees for so many unconfirmed transaction? It is a gold mine for them, that's why they seems like enjoy this BSU and don't want to support SegWit.

There are enough people who are fed up with the bureaucracy and would rather just do something to resolve the issue, there are also personal preferences on the solution but if none of them cut it we could see sister chains like Ethereum/Ethereum Classic.

Bitcoin Forks based on the schism would compete, the miners would split onto the various blockchains and the one with the most hashing power becomes the recognized main chain, while the losing ones either fade to zero or coexist like ETC and ETH do.

A cynical but valid way to look at this rally is that the community and big money is positioning for a Fork outcome.

Owning coins that will be worth something on both sides of the chain and selling the chain you think will lose on the exchanges is a real profit outcome. There may be a devaluation initially but Ethereum shows a precedent that the combined value of two split coins can exceed the original value. The question is if merchants will accept the fork version, the original one or both.  

Meanwhile the miners just pile up coins in the end they don't care what happens they own both forks regardless of the decision to the point of the split. So we can't rely on miners to solve it, even if they see the problem why would they rush scenario A is beautiful high value transaction fees to their machines. Scenario B they get coins on the winning fork and the losing fork to the point of the split.

Some value is lost but they are hedged if fork + original = 1 and there is still a chance of fork+original chain being greater than 1 in the mid to long term when the competing chains co-exist.

The people who suffer are the community transacting and paying the fees, the miners just mine new Bitcoins it doesn't matter how they are distributed a mint is just a mint that is where the rub lies.

I point to nodes that have to retain a balance to get paid as a possible solution as they are incentive to well operate and fork with the solution so 8mb nodes would still run and relay they are receiving rewards for existing and perhaps even add some additional functions since it's a hard fork scenario.

This scenario works on presumptions but they are reasonable, first it presumes that node operators would rather be compensated than not and that nodes not online now because their is no incentive would join if there was one ensuring reliability. Two they would increase the block-size and as long as they are compensated would continue to do so without issue a result that will make the userbase that wants low cost transactions and Bitcoin sending adopt the new fork while those who are debating the blockstream, segwit etc would continue doing so on the original chain.

The miners may not like it due to a change in block reward and transaction fees decreasing but some hashing power relative to the user-base would move if the value to the new tokens retain a significant fraction of its value. It kicks the issue down the road regarding block rewards/fixed supply but it resolves the immediate transaction cost issue.

Of course there are many options and it's the community that will decide or fork the one with the most consensus if a soft-fork is not chosen.


A fun area to look at is leaks in the system, consider the scenario where Bitcoin does nothing and transactions stay slow for a long time to come.

The next best coin will absorb the leakages in this case speedy transactions and increase in value proportionately becoming the transaction de franca coin, also known as the coin used primarily for quick exchanges.

If this happens then transaction volume on Bitcoin will drop and perhaps the usage and future growth forcing a resolution through decreased usage.
https://coinmarketcap.com/
Bitcoins is still 85% of the market cap but it is possible that the market cap increases while the percentage of the total decreases and an alt is used as the main transaction coin even if the issue is resolved if it stays an issue long enough users will still prefer using #2 to 1 in the long run, making it an opportunity for alts.

This situation is an opportunity for #2 to build a bigger user base due to the problems at #1.

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March 05, 2017, 09:38:05 PM
 #30

8mb seems good why does core not release this in the mean time
Node count decrease, skyrocketing orphan rates, huge potential for DOS attack due to quadratic signature hashing. What could possibly go wrong? Roll Eyes

I dont see how segwit will not have some type of dao bug in it,,, its just the complexity of it.
Bullshit. The people who complain about Segwit complexity are those that can't even understand a simple Hello World program.

8mb now would clean out the mem pool, raise fees for miners and be a nice compromise and set a precedent for the future, the we can just all go to 16 mb then 32 etc etc
It would drastically lower fees. Heck, it could even make miners lose out on >95% of fees. Why would anyone pay anything with so much empty space per block?

were not the 1mb blocks largely empty at one point what happened then?

What about 4 MB,

See with the current demand, I think 2~4 mb are going to be filled and the spam minimised, It seems to balance out hat the more transaction you can put in, its going to cost more to put lots of spam in.

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