Backing up Electrum wallet

PurpleDog (OP)

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Backing up Electrum wallet

March 05, 2017, 11:51:20 AM

#1

I have installed and use Electrum. I have installed it on an external ssd and I have created a wallet (with a custom name) saved on the same ssd. Meaning that the program itself + my wallet are usually off line.

I put some BC in the wallet and now I wonder about backing up my wallet/money.

a) I plan to copy the wallet file to some dvd rom. Do I understand it correctly that in case of calamity I could reinstall Electrum, just open the wallet file and have money and transactions history back? (At least up to the date of the backup?)

b) I hear about "paper backup". I have already kept my seed words on a sheet of paper. Is that it? Is that the "paper backup"? Does that mean that in case of calamity I could reinstall Electrum, insert the words and have everything back?

c) Any other suggestions?

talkbitcoin

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Re: Backing up Electrum wallet

March 05, 2017, 12:25:51 PM

#2

Quote from: PurpleDog on March 05, 2017, 11:51:20 AM

I have installed and use Electrum. I have installed it on an external ssd and I have created a wallet (with a custom name) saved on the same ssd. Meaning that the program itself + my wallet are usually off line.

what do you mean "with some name"? did you give it a custom seed? because that can't be safe.
also on the SSD did you just install the wallet there and keeping the files there or is it like a live linux thing that most people suggest?

Quote

I put some BC in the wallet and now I wonder about backing up my wallet/money.

did you mean BTC?
as long as:
1) you do not connect that SSD to any computer
2) and have never connected that to another PC before this
3) and created the wallet on a safe offline environment
it is safe, otherwise consider it compromised.

Quote

a) I plan to copy the wallet file to some dvd rom. Do I understand it correctly that in case of calamity I could reinstall Electrum, just open the wallet file and have money and transactions history back? (At least up to the date of the backup?)

i can't see any reason why you should copy the wallet file to a DVD disk but you can. don't forget to encrypt the wallet file with a password.
you already have it on your SSD you don't need more.

if you need to spend then look up offline storage in Electrum FAQ. it has enough explanation.

Quote

b) I hear about "paper backup". I have already kept my seed words on a sheet of paper. Is that it? Is that the "paper backup"? Does that mean that in case of calamity I could reinstall Electrum, insert the words and have everything back?

you only need to secure your Seed. write it on a piece of paper and hide it in a safe place. that is enough for back up, restore and spending in the future.

Quote

c) Any other suggestions?

as i said create the wallet in a safe environment. meaning a linux OS preferably always offline and never connect that SSD to internet or any other computer again.

p.s. move your topic to appropriate board.

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..^PROFITBOX..

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....M A R K E T....
...^{O V E R V I E W}...

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PurpleDog (OP)

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Re: Backing up Electrum wallet

March 05, 2017, 01:01:17 PM

#3

Quote from: talkbitcoin on March 05, 2017, 12:25:51 PM

what do you mean "with some name"? did you give it a custom seed?

no, no. Instead of "default wallet" I call it for example "myWallet"

Quote from: talkbitcoin on March 05, 2017, 12:25:51 PM

also on the SSD did you just install the wallet there and keeping the files there or is it like a live linux thing that most people suggest?

Windows machine. SSD offline. I just connect it when I want to use the wallet.

Quote

i can't see any reason why you should copy the wallet file to a DVD disk but you can. don't forget to encrypt the wallet file with a password.
you already have it on your SSD you don't need more.

but if my SSD is destroyed, for one reason or the other, I won't have it there.

Quote

you only need to secure your Seed. write it on a piece of paper and hide it in a safe place. that is enough for back up, restore and spending in the future.

ok, thanks

Coin-Keeper

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Re: Backing up Electrum wallet

March 05, 2017, 09:38:42 PM

#4

Sometimes we see some extravagant solutions proposed for backing up Electrum wallets. Thomas (the developer) could not have made it any easier. Forget all the junk you read about and follow the advice already given above. WRITE the SEED words and keep them somewhere safe and you always have what you need to restore all activity on any normally used Electrum wallet. I have personally restored many many wallets using SEED only, and remarkably all my transactions appeared within a few seconds.

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ziggy2

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Re: Backing up Electrum wallet

March 19, 2017, 10:02:21 PM

#5

Hi,

Interesting comments and advice.

I have a question: I created my Electrum wallet as the computer was online. I understand it is not the safest way (because a malevolent program could have stolen the keys/seed in real time, or afterwards, I suppose).
Should I create another wallet by using the "File/New-Restore" menu item (offline this time) and transfer the BTC from the first wallet to the new one ?

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Re: Backing up Electrum wallet

March 20, 2017, 04:35:52 AM

#6

Quote from: ziggy2 on March 19, 2017, 10:02:21 PM

Hi,

Interesting comments and advice.

I have a question: I created my Electrum wallet as the computer was online. I understand it is not the safest way (because a malevolent program could have stolen the keys/seed in real time, or afterwards, I suppose).
Should I create another wallet by using the "File/New-Restore" menu item (offline this time) and transfer the BTC from the first wallet to the new one ?

A cold storage or and offline system that you use should have always been offline and always remain offline in the future too. That means if it was online once before or if you plan on connecting it to the internet in the future or practically connecting anything unsafe to it, then that is no longer a cold storage and your safety may have been compromised.
That doesn't mean it is though! I have a hot wallet on my desktop and I am fine.

So for this part

Quote

Should I create another wallet by using the "File/New-Restore" menu item (offline this time) and transfer the BTC from the first wallet to the new one ?

If you are doing it on a system that has been online before and you are just disconnecting the internet then there is no difference.

What you should do is that you should go on a fresh system and do all the wallet creation. It can be another old computer with no internet access and a freshly installed OS. Or a simpler way is to just run a live linux. You can run it from a CD or your USB disk with your router/modem off, then create the wallet and write down the seed, turn that linux OS off to lose all the data and just have that piece of paper as your wallet.

There are a lot of other things that can be don, search for cold storage or ask here if you want more details.

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ziggy2

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Re: Backing up Electrum wallet

March 20, 2017, 07:23:24 AM

#7

I think that I understand : "cold" really means cold, never ever connected to the Internet...

However:
A - if I install a "brand new" Electrum wallet on a "cold" computer (that has never been connnected & will never be), the file has to come from the internet, or...?
B : and how do you transfer BTC into the cold wallet without being "online" ?

Sorry if I bother you about "basic" questions, but I think it may be useful for many visitors.

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Re: Backing up Electrum wallet

March 20, 2017, 01:17:36 PM

#8

Quote from: ziggy2 on March 20, 2017, 07:23:24 AM

A - if I install a "brand new" Electrum wallet on a "cold" computer (that has never been connnected & will never be), the file has to come from the internet, or...?

You can download that file on a computer connected to the internet. Make sure to verify the signature. And then transfer it to your "Cold System".

Or if you know what you are doing, run a fresh Linux (eg Ubuntu) download the file, disconnect and never connect again. And install there.

Quote from: ziggy2 on March 20, 2017, 07:23:24 AM

B : and how do you transfer BTC into the cold wallet without being "online" ?

To receive BTC your only give your public key (the bitcoin address starting with 1 or 3) to anyone and ask them to pay you. There is nothing else you need to do apart from seeing your balance go up Wink

To spend BTC you take multiple steps:
1. create the raw unsigned transaction
2. move that to cold storage and sign it there
3. move the signed tx back to an online computer and broadcast it.
It is actually easier than it sounds but you need to try it at least once with small amount (eg 0.0001BTC) to get the hang of things
More details: http://docs.electrum.org/en/latest/coldstorage.html

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Abdussamad

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Re: Backing up Electrum wallet

March 20, 2017, 03:08:42 PM

#9

Quote from: PurpleDog on March 05, 2017, 11:51:20 AM

I have installed and use Electrum. I have installed it on an external ssd and I have created a wallet (with a custom name) saved on the same ssd. Meaning that the program itself + my wallet are usually off line.

I put some BC in the wallet and now I wonder about backing up my wallet/money.

a) I plan to copy the wallet file to some dvd rom. Do I understand it correctly that in case of calamity I could reinstall Electrum, just open the wallet file and have money and transactions history back? (At least up to the date of the backup?)

b) I hear about "paper backup". I have already kept my seed words on a sheet of paper. Is that it? Is that the "paper backup"? Does that mean that in case of calamity I could reinstall Electrum, insert the words and have everything back?

Electrum is a deterministic wallet which means that all address specific private keys are derived from a single seed. Backup the seed either on paper or in soft copy form i.e. the wallet file and you will have access to all transactions that ever take place. So your one time wallet file backup is good for life.

What a one time backup does not give is your transaction and address labels. So if those are important for you should back up the wallet file periodically as well or export the labels to a file and backup that file.

ziggy2

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Re: Backing up Electrum wallet

March 20, 2017, 07:03:13 PM

#10

@Coding Enthusiast : thank you.

For my question A/ : of course, I should have guessed ! However - just for my education - could a malware located on my online PC infect the Electrum install executable ?

For my question B/: your answer is very clear, and actually the docs.electrum page helps understanding all the steps. Thank you.

HI-TEC99

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Re: Backing up Electrum wallet

March 20, 2017, 08:14:26 PM

#11

Quote from: ziggy2 on March 20, 2017, 07:03:13 PM

@Coding Enthusiast : thank you.

For my question A/ : of course, I should have guessed ! However - just for my education - could a malware located on my online PC infect the Electrum install executable ?

Another virus attack risk depends on how you transfer your unsigned transaction file between your online PC and your offline PC.

If you scan QR codes through cameras your offline PC is safe.

However, if you use a USB flash drive there is a risk of infection by certain viruses that use flash drives to travel between computers, such as conficker.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conficker

Quote

Variants B and C place a copy of their DLL form on any attached removable media (such as USB flash drives), from which they can then infect new hosts through the Windows AutoRun mechanism

You can protect your USB flash drives by using special antivirus software that creates an undeletable autorun.inf file in them. Viruses like conficker cannot function unless they can replace a flash drive's autorun.inf file with their own malicious version. The only downside to protecting a flash drive is that it disables autorun functionality, windows no longer automatically opens a protected flash drive for you when you plug it in.

Bitdefender released usb immunizer to protect flash drives.

https://labs.bitdefender.com/projects/usb-immunizer/overview/

Panda released a similar product called Panda USB Vaccine.

http://www.pandasecurity.com/usa/homeusers/downloads/usbvaccine/

They are both freeware, you don't have to pay anything for them.

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Re: Backing up Electrum wallet

March 20, 2017, 10:18:34 PM

#12

Thank you for your fine analysis and advice. Very useful indeed. Cool

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Re: Backing up Electrum wallet

March 21, 2017, 07:07:52 AM

#13

In addition to what HI-TEC99 said, you download a tarball (a tar.gz file which is an archive of sorts) if you want to follow my suggestion and install on linux for example and when if it is modified in any ways, the signature changes.

That is why I emphasized on "Make sure to verify the signature". (Double check all the following links with https://electrum.org/#download)
You get ThomasV's signature: https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0x2BD5824B7F9470E6 (gpg --recv-keys 7F9470E6)
Then you get the tarball's signature: https://download.electrum.org/2.8.1/Electrum-2.8.1.tar.gz.asc (or any other respective signature in regard to the file that you download)
Then you get the file: https://download.electrum.org/2.8.1/Electrum-2.8.1.tar.gz

And finally do a signature check (double check the following because I am writing from memory):

Code:

gpg --recv-keys 7F9470E6
cd (change directory to where you saved both tar and sig files)
gpg --verify Electrum-2.8.1.tar.gz.asc Electrum-2.8.1.tar.gz

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Re: Backing up Electrum wallet

March 21, 2017, 07:17:36 AM

#14

Thank you. Grin

However I am afraid that this is beyond my competencies. I have been using computers since the DOS period, but I still have difficulties understanding how the BTC system actually works in detail (code, blockchain, cryptogtaphy, nodes, etc..), although I have a general knowledge of the principles...which is enough for most of us I guess. I am pleased that there are experts who kindly help others to get a better understanding.

Again, thank you for your time and assistance.