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Author Topic: My proposal for AllinVain's theft.  (Read 5169 times)
Anonymous
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June 17, 2011, 06:40:17 AM
 #41

alot of smartasses happy it wasn't them, give the guy a break. he knows better than anyone else what he did wrong on his part. if you learned something from his mistake, send him a donation or simply stfu.  apologies for my language.

edit: in his place cold have being almost anyone here and the proof is that all of you in past 48 hours were fearfully securing your wallets and scanning pc's. and now being smart###es about his misfortune. very low.
It's impossible to argue social conduct especially when individuals are so easy to offend.

would you just grow up, please, atlas? i try to avoid commenting, but you singlehandedly make the forum almost unbearable to read with your repetitive, simplistic little nuggets of teenage political and social wisdom. i could probably write a computer program that could emulate your forum presence in a way that passed the turing test; it would certainly do as good a job as you at being a teenage libertarian. it's neither hard or interesting; you're not the first, you know. if we all know exactly what you're going to say, why say it?

emansipator, as usual, is right, and the callousness shown here and in similar threads to allinvain is insensitive and unfortunate. (the worst i saw was someone who spouted the mafia's internal code about how asking help from law enforcement shows that you're not a 'man' and lack 'courage'. sadly, this sentiment does accurately represent the forums, and perhaps the 'bitcoin community' as a whole, so the press's unfortunate general reaction is not a surprise. not all early adopters are as juvenile and anarchist, but those of us who aren't seem to be in a diminishing minority.)

nor is it obviously wrong, despite the remarkable cultural conservatism and fear of change that's evident in these forums, to think about ways to improve bitcoin so that this kind of thing doesn't happen in the future. encrypting private keys on disk and/or in memory isn't really good enough against a compromised system. perhaps it's not worth worrying about any system that could ever become compromised (that's at least a reasonable position), but there are solutions that mitigate the harm from system comrpomise; they could involve distributed keystores, delayed transaction confirmations, security commitments in the block chain itself using nLockTime, and so forth. i'm not sure why there's so little interest in exploring those alternatives, rather than blaming the victims of a system that, in total, failed them.

less attention in general should be paid to the 'wallet.dat' file, too, and more to the private keys themselves. an ec private key is not long and could easily be recorded on paper (much more easily than using a qr code to represent the whole wallet.dat file). the client could readily support manual entry of private keys that were recorded from prior display, for example. password-based encryption of the whole private-key store in wallet.dat is likely to do little good; most people, if nothing else, will use poor passwords.
Well, somebody is butthurt.
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allinvain
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June 17, 2011, 06:45:28 AM
 #42

Or even if they do use so called 'strong password' they'll easily get cracked by a GPU based password cracking program. These days even 11 to 20 character length password aren't safe.

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June 17, 2011, 06:51:54 AM
 #43

I agree with unk (I'd agree even more if he used capital letters sometimes Smiley ) but I'm afraid security and usability are inversely proportional. The very moment Bitcoin client has some kind of protection, we are going to get stories asking whom to contact because "they forgot their password/lost a written private key". And I'm afraid any kind of security equal to mainstream banking will only come from Bitcoin intermediaries (essentially Bitcoin banks). With all their disadvantages (fees, control and loss of privacy).

1HAoJag4C3XtAmQJAhE9FTAAJWFcrvpdLM
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June 17, 2011, 06:54:16 AM
 #44

All you guys do is speak for protection. The more repeated requests I hear with no action to back it, the more tempted I am to start a crowd-funding service to get these features added. If anybody is wasting conversation effort, it is you gentlemen. Hahaha.
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June 17, 2011, 07:09:42 AM
 #45

Or even if they do use so called 'strong password' they'll easily get cracked by a GPU based password cracking program. These days even 11 to 20 character length password aren't safe.

Now you are exaggerating. If you don't use dictionary words and preferably you use a random combination of alphanumerics, 15 character long password is uncrackable brute force. Even whole Bitcoin network would not brake it. My back-on-the envelope estimation is that such a randomly chosen password would need more than million years on all the GPUs on Bitcoin network. I think we should worry more with weak password and trojans.

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bcearl
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June 17, 2011, 09:16:24 AM
 #46

That's probably not how they got it. Do you know anything about how dropbox operates?

https://www.dropbox.com/help/27


"All files stored on Dropbox servers are encrypted (AES-256)"


Why don't you ask him how he did it:

http://twitter.com/#!/Anonakomis


You don't know anything about encryption.

Encryption is a tool. You need a concept and policies to use it. Who cares that it is encrypted, it is not you who has the key!

Misspelling protects against dictionary attacks NOT
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June 17, 2011, 09:20:51 AM
 #47

Or even if they do use so called 'strong password' they'll easily get cracked by a GPU based password cracking program. These days even 11 to 20 character length password aren't safe.

Bullshit. 12 charakters are save, if you use different types of characters and don't use dictionary words.

Misspelling protects against dictionary attacks NOT
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June 17, 2011, 10:34:50 AM
 #48

That's probably not how they got it. Do you know anything about how dropbox operates?

https://www.dropbox.com/help/27


"All files stored on Dropbox servers are encrypted (AES-256)"

That's their marketing claim which you and a lot of other people evidently bought into, but key management is an important issue - and at Dropbox, their employees have access to the keys required to decrypt your data. In fact, for all we know the keys are stored in the same place as the data. (Dropbox also has a similar issue to Bitcoin itself - once someone manages to break into a device connected to your account and steal your Dropbox settings file, they have access to your files forevermore.)

Quad XC6SLX150 Board: 860 MHash/s or so.
SIGS ABOUT BUTTERFLY LABS ARE PAID ADS
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June 17, 2011, 10:59:08 AM
 #49

Actually, this is a perfect example of why Libertarian "charity" fails in the real world.
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June 17, 2011, 11:09:15 AM
 #50

dear thief,

since your are a rich person now but you still need to launder your btc.....i offer you my help, donate to
1HfX1okdauFE5GxxtPa3ZMHmzZYNCt6j19

 Grin
cschmitz
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June 17, 2011, 11:33:01 AM
 #51

*crickets*

Well, it seems you don't really want to see him with his money back after all. However, I guess it's completely fine if it's taken from everybody elses wallet. :\

This is what is wrong with society.




What is wrong is that if someone is to blame for not securing ones asset, the society or community ought in any way insure someones stupidity.
Bitcoin is a huge gamble and a project where one should not put in a value higher than he can afford to lose and not care about.
If someone with 500.000 $ worth of bitcoins can not afford to lose them as playmoney in the high stakes internet gambling thing that bitcoin is right now, he should have a) secured them b) traded them for dollars.
From my understanding he was even trading and speculating with bitcoins, if you dont cover your game you will fall.
He wanted to be "wealthy through bitcoin" and did not hedge or secure his investment, its his fault. Noone forced him to a) get involved into BTC b) prevented him from cashing out

proud 5.x gh/s miner. tips welcome at 1A132BPnYMrgYdDaRyLpRrLQU4aG1WLRtd
ribuck
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June 17, 2011, 12:14:56 PM
 #52

Well, the people proposing block chain manipulation sure are proposing theft on a massive scale. That's my main deal.
Well, no, nothing like theft is being proposed. The people proposing block chain manipulation are proposing to manipulate their copies of a block chain, i.e. to change some bytes in some blocks. Changing ones own bytes is not theft.

You, and I, and the rest of Bitcoin's hashing power, are free to choose whether or not to accept the manipulated blocks, and most would not accept them.

Manipulating the block chain would be a stupid thing to do, but it's not theft.
Bezza
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June 17, 2011, 12:33:01 PM
 #53

dear thief,

since your are a rich person now but you still need to launder your btc.....i offer you my help, donate to
1HfX1okdauFE5GxxtPa3ZMHmzZYNCt6j19

 Grin

Laugh if he actually did.
allinvain
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June 17, 2011, 03:25:08 PM
 #54

*crickets*

Well, it seems you don't really want to see him with his money back after all. However, I guess it's completely fine if it's taken from everybody elses wallet. :\

This is what is wrong with society.




What is wrong is that if someone is to blame for not securing ones asset, the society or community ought in any way insure someones stupidity.
Bitcoin is a huge gamble and a project where one should not put in a value higher than he can afford to lose and not care about.
If someone with 500.000 $ worth of bitcoins can not afford to lose them as playmoney in the high stakes internet gambling thing that bitcoin is right now, he should have a) secured them b) traded them for dollars.
From my understanding he was even trading and speculating with bitcoins, if you dont cover your game you will fall.
He wanted to be "wealthy through bitcoin" and did not hedge or secure his investment, its his fault. Noone forced him to a) get involved into BTC b) prevented him from cashing out

Where did you hear that I traded them? Do people just make shit up?!

I never traded or sold any of them. I kept them there until I felt the time was right to INVEST them back in the bitcoin economy by paying developers/coders in BTC to develop sites/services that I believed fellow members of the BTC community would find useful. One such idea I had was to build a ebay equivalent for BTC with all the features ebay currently has. I wanted all BTC payments to be processed through ClearCoin so Gavin would have a suitable income so he can focus 100% on the improvement of the bitcoin client/system.

Upon forethought I should've been just like the majority of you and cashed out nearly everything the moment I saw btc price spike and be done with it. Sure it would've crashed the price like mad, but then you'd all be singing my praises of how wise I was to sell out and raise the middle finger to the bitcoin economy. I wonder when people will actually stop shuffling between USD and BTC and use BTC AS AN ACTUAL CURRENCY.


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June 17, 2011, 03:29:15 PM
 #55

Relax man. I never asked for your bitcoins nor do I want them from you. I have no right to ask or to take them from you. I do have a right to reclaim them from whoever stole them. My private property rights do not end just because you or someone managed to take it without my permission or without proper compensation.

This is NOT what is wrong with society. What IS wrong with society is people not respecting other people's property rights and thinking that as long as they can get away with it it makes it all ok.

You don't understand. You are not asking for them to be pinched out of everyone's wallet. But other people, bunch of no good armchair dictators, do in fact want to do it.

I have a loan structure that would in a year's time move around more than what you lost. But it's taking a while to set up.

Proposal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=11541.msg162881#msg162881
Inception: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/296
Goal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=12536.0
Means: Code, donations, and brutal criticism. I've got a thick skin. 1Gc3xCHAzwvTDnyMW3evBBr5qNRDN3DRpq
allinvain
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June 17, 2011, 03:38:23 PM
 #56

Relax man. I never asked for your bitcoins nor do I want them from you. I have no right to ask or to take them from you. I do have a right to reclaim them from whoever stole them. My private property rights do not end just because you or someone managed to take it without my permission or without proper compensation.

This is NOT what is wrong with society. What IS wrong with society is people not respecting other people's property rights and thinking that as long as they can get away with it it makes it all ok.

You don't understand. You are not asking for them to be pinched out of everyone's wallet. But other people, bunch of no good armchair dictators, do in fact want to do it.

I have a loan structure that would in a year's time move around more than what you lost. But it's taking a while to set up.

I guess my only hope is figuring out a way to gain a ridiculous amount of hashing power. You'd all be screaming "It's over 9000!!!"....

Come to think of it I wish I had purchased some sort of bitcoin insurance.

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June 17, 2011, 04:52:12 PM
 #57

Come to think of it I wish I had purchased some sort of bitcoin insurance.
I don't know anyone who is selling any. So there's your opportunity, if you're still looking for a bitcoin-related business to launch.
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June 17, 2011, 06:50:03 PM
 #58

Come to think of it I wish I had purchased some sort of bitcoin insurance.
I don't know anyone who is selling any. So there's your opportunity, if you're still looking for a bitcoin-related business to launch.

I'm offering loans.

Let's get started. I've got a couple ppl to annoy Smiley

Proposal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=11541.msg162881#msg162881
Inception: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/296
Goal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=12536.0
Means: Code, donations, and brutal criticism. I've got a thick skin. 1Gc3xCHAzwvTDnyMW3evBBr5qNRDN3DRpq
TraderTimm
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June 18, 2011, 09:26:57 AM
 #59

My final proposal involves "allinvain" growing a pair and shutting the fuck up.

Of course, assuming that transaction belonged to him in the first place, which we have to accept on 'faith'.

It's all a dogs breakfast, no matter how you look at it. Goddamn drama queens.

fortitudinem multis - catenum regit omnia
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June 18, 2011, 09:31:15 AM
 #60

My final proposal involves "allinvain" growing a pair and shutting the fuck up.

Of course, assuming that transaction belonged to him in the first place, which we have to accept on 'faith'.

It's all a dogs breakfast, no matter how you look at it. Goddamn drama queens.


He can proof that he is the owner, because he has the private keys.

But he cannot proof that he didn't send the money himself.

Misspelling protects against dictionary attacks NOT
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