Why are people so eager to pay tax?

[Severian]

Try this on for size - if you don't pay you fair share of taxes then you are a freeloader, and I hope your house burns down, or you die in the street after being hit by a car, or some other fate that is deserving of someone who's willing to take the benefits of living in a society but isn't willing to contribute to the financial upkeep thereof.

No.

Anyone that tells a government about money that the government doesn't know about in order to pay taxes to said government is a fool. Wishing violence on people because you disagree with them is about what I'd expect from someone that wants to take it up the pooper from The State.

[1713904492]

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[1713904492]

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[Luno]

There's a serious disconnect here...

There is NO reason to assume that AVOIDING tax is the same as CHEATING tax.

There are plenty of ways to avoid tax without being a "cheat". Sure, many people won't take advantage of the legal ways to get around being gang raped for more than they need to pay, but that doesn't necessitate that just because YOU didn't take advantage of those ways that other people are cheats.

Again, this is just more buying into common misperceptions.

If you can avoid tax, why not? Large corporations do it all the time.'

Why is it ok for a fortune 500 company to do something, but it's "immoral" or "unethical" for you to do it?

I say BS. If you don't work the system, it will work you. Just take advantage of the ways to avoid tax that are available. There are LOTS of ways.

If large companies are avoiding taxes people think they are cheating. When someone has the ability through the way they setup their business or the country they have their business i, others without that possibility are sure they are cheating.

Accounting is not always an exact science, tweaking the uncertainties to your own advantage is about the limit of what is concerned legal, within limits!

Bitcoin is new, so in my opinion people should file as they were boy scouts to get maximum goodwill from authorities. That will be beneficiary in the long run.

[Severian]

Bitcoin is new, so in my opinion people should file as they were boy scouts to get maximum goodwill from authorities.

I'd only worry about state and local authorities for those in the US doing business in a regulated domain. Personal users should keep their bitcoin info and earnings as far from government ears as possible.

[RenegadeMind]

it is also immoral for the fortune 500 companies...

Just because it is immoral doesn't mean that it is illegal or against the law.

If large companies are avoiding taxes people think they are cheating. When someone has the ability through the way they setup their business or the country they have their business i, others without that possibility are sure they are cheating.

Accounting is not always an exact science, tweaking the uncertainties to your own advantage is about the limit of what is concerned legal, within limits!

Bitcoin is new, so in my opinion people should file as they were boy scouts to get maximum goodwill from authorities. That will be beneficiary in the long run.

Just because people think that something is wrong doesn't mean that it is illegal.

For example:

You may believe that abortion is right/wrong, but that has no bearing on what is legal/illegal.

I don't think that the state has any right to murder people, but states murder people all the time. Legally.

There is a very big difference between "legal/lawful" and "moral".

[RenegadeMind]

Anyone that tells a government about money that the government doesn't know about in order to pay taxes to said government is a fool. Wishing violence on people because you disagree with them is about what I'd expect from someone that wants to take it up the pooper from The State.

Seems reasonable. Why take a solid ass-fucking with a chainsaw if you can avoid it?

[Jobe7]

Bitcoin is new, so in my opinion people should file as they were boy scouts to get maximum goodwill from authorities.

I'd only worry about state and local authorities for those in the US doing business in a regulated domain. Personal users should keep their bitcoin info and earnings as far from government ears as possible.

Ye, couldn't agree more. Not a chance in hell I'd tell the state about my personal btc and the 'profit' from increase in value. That just should not come into anyone's equation.

And a good point from someone - difference between 'cheating tax' and 'avoiding tax'.

BTC (the value you change to fiat) for tax purposes should only be stated if you run a business, or if you're claiming benefits.

Hey .. 40% inheritance tax in the UK (yes, its sick) - how about starting a business

"Want your inheritance to go to your spouses/relatives 100%? Then do it through Bitcoin!"

[kokjo]

"Want your inheritance to go to your spouses/relatives 100%? Then do it through Bitcoin!"

if you want people to be born equal, then the wealth of the parents should not be transferred to the children.

[Jobe7]

"Want your inheritance to go to your spouses/relatives 100%? Then do it through Bitcoin!"

if you want people to be born equal, then the wealth of the parents should not be transferred to the children.

Hmm.. then what do you propose happens to someones wealth/assets when they die? It all goes to the government?

[gollum]

All these threads about "how do I pay tax" sound like a cacophonous symphony of masochists screaming "Rape me! No, rape me first!"

"Stockholm syndrome, or capture–bonding, is a psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and sympathy and have positive feelings toward their captors, sometimes to the point of defending them. These feelings are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, who essentially mistake a lack of abuse from their captors for an act of kindness."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

[RenegadeMind]

Hey .. 40% inheritance tax in the UK (yes, its sick) - how about starting a business

"Want your inheritance to go to your spouses/relatives 100%? Then do it through Bitcoin!"

Good point.

You get taxed on everything, then they want to steal more when you die. It's sick and perverse. It's double taxing you at a minimum.

if you want people to be born equal, then the wealth of the parents should not be transferred to the children.

Spoken like a true statist. Steal everything from people when they die. Wonderful! Make certain that people live in poverty, or at least help ensure poverty.

All these threads about "how do I pay tax" sound like a cacophonous symphony of masochists screaming "Rape me! No, rape me first!"

"Stockholm syndrome, or capture–bonding, is a psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and sympathy and have positive feelings toward their captors, sometimes to the point of defending them. These feelings are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, who essentially mistake a lack of abuse from their captors for an act of kindness."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

Nicely done.

Again, crabs in a bucket. I'm getting raped, so you should too!

[Jobe7]

All these threads about "how do I pay tax" sound like a cacophonous symphony of masochists screaming "Rape me! No, rape me first!"

"Stockholm syndrome, or capture–bonding, is a psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and sympathy and have positive feelings toward their captors, sometimes to the point of defending them. These feelings are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, who essentially mistake a lack of abuse from their captors for an act of kindness."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

Ye.. there's a difference between stockholm syndrome and not wanting to have all your assets/wealth stolen and being locked up.

In the city where I live they set aside 1 day a week, the whole day, at the Courts so that the city Council can run all its cases against people who havn't been able (or havn't paid) their council taxes.

But hey, if you think stockholm syndrome reflects not wanting to get locked up and all your stuff stolen, then I suggest you try don't pay any taxes, ever, again. Then state its because you won't adhere to taxes because everyone else pays taxes due to stockholm syndrome and you simply don't/won't pay your taxes because YOU don't suffer from stockholm syndrome.

You "No sir, I will NOT and don't need to pay taxes because I don't suffer from Stockholm Syndrome!"

Let us know how it goes. Especially when the court bailiffs/police come knocking.

I don't fully agree with taxes, because of what they stand for and because of the extent they're used for. BUT I will pay them (when I have to) so that my wealth/assets (and those that have families) don't get stolen and so that I don't lose my liberty.

One day it ('taxes') will change, but that day is not yet.

[RenegadeMind]

I don't fully agree with taxes, because of what they stand for and because of the extent they're used for. BUT I will pay them (when I have to) so that my wealth/assets (and those that have families) don't get stolen and so that I don't lose my liberty.

Good points there.


Aside:

I would recommend a few people to read Immanuel Kant on moral worth of actions. It's relevant to this discussion.

[silzero]

While the origins of Bitcoin is from freedom. The moment you convert Bitcoin to Fiat you are liable to pay taxes.
Your existence in a country gives you no other choice but to pay taxes (unless you are in Brunei or some such country).

If you are not eager to pay taxes that shows you don't care about the legalities. It would be an expensive mistake to think your government will sit and let you skip your taxes.

Now you can reduce or eliminate your tax due, that implies you have to look to pay your taxes. Ignoring your taxes is like ignoring a festering wound and think that'll go away on its own.

This thinking of sticking it to the man, needs to change if you want your coins to count for anything greater than 0. There is nothing to be gained by creating friction with legal systems. Bitcoin itself would not be illegal, just its  way of use makes it attract bad light. There is lots to be gained by just not working against the system (if possible work with it).

Look at the advantages of Bitcoin: Secure, fast and very cheap way to transfer money anywhere there is a computer. Those are more productive than "eh.. I don't care about the government and I'm going to use Bitcoin to prove it".

[qxzn]

Everyone seems to agree that it's "moral" to pay your taxes, and immoral not to pay taxes. But when you consider the violence that is wreaked with your tax dollars, there's a good case for the exact opposite. Some of the great nonviolent thinkers agree:

If a thousand [citizens] were not to pay their tax-bills this year, that would not be a violent and bloody measure, as it would be to pay them, and enable the State to commit violence and shed innocent blood. This is, in fact, the definition of a peaceable revolution, if any such is possible.

- Thoreau

    This sad situation developed after my departure from South Africa, but my idea of having permanent funds for public institutions underwent a change long before this difference arose. And now after considerable experience with the many public institutions which I have managed, it has become my firm conviction that it is not good to run public institutions on permanent funds. A permanent fund carries in itself the seed of the moral fall of the institution. A public institution means an institution conducted with the approval, and from the funds, of the public. When such an institution ceases to have public support, it forfeits its right to exist. Institutions maintained on permanent funds are often found to ignore public opinion, and are frequently responsible for acts contrary to it. In our country we experience this at every step. Some of the so-called religious trusts have ceased to render any accounts. The trustees have become the owners, and are responsible to none. I have no doubt that the ideal is for public institutions to live, like nature, from day to day. The institution that fails to win public support has no right to exist as such. The subscriptions that an institution annually receives are a test of its popularity and the honesty of its management, and I am of opinion that every institution should submit to that test. But let no one misunderstand me. My remarks do not apply to the bodies which cannot, by their very nature, be conducted without permanent buildings. What I mean to say it that the current expenditure should be found from subscriptions voluntarily received from year to year.

- Gandhi

[gollum]

The taxation we got today in many european countries are way too high, when you pay 100 euro for a service the total taxes paid are between 50-80%! So you only get 20-50% of the value that you pay for.

We could have 10-15% tax and still have the same quality in the society if the public sectors efficiency were optimal.

The problem with the government is that they tax people as much as they can, and then decide how to waste that money instead of deciding on what is really needed first. I believe we could cut the government budget (taxes) with 80% without regular people noticing any difference in the service they experience in real life. There are so many bullshit projects, bullshit departments and bullshit regulations that no one would miss them except the bureaucrats that would get fired from their unneeded jobs.

In my view government is mostly a parasite on the economy. We should cut the government functions as much as possible, and let the private sector handle the rest.

[Severian]

Why take a solid ass-fucking with a chainsaw if you can avoid it?

I'm starting to think that some of the tax apologists actually LIKE the chainsaw part of the deal.

[kokjo]

"Want your inheritance to go to your spouses/relatives 100%? Then do it through Bitcoin!"

if you want people to be born equal, then the wealth of the parents should not be transferred to the children.

Hmm.. then what do you propose happens to someones wealth/assets when they die? It all goes to the government?

i don't know...

if you want people to be born equal, then the wealth of the parents should not be transferred to the children.

Spoken like a true statist. Steal everything from people when they die. Wonderful! Make certain that people live in poverty, or at least help ensure poverty.

i have not in this thread said it should go to the state, just that it are against your own political believes.

[Severian]

i have not in this thread said it should go to the state, just that it are against your own political believes.

Then who gets my wealth when I die if I'm not allowed to leave it to my family?

[kokjo]

i have not in this thread said it should go to the state, just that it are against your own political believes.

Then who gets my wealth when I die if I'm not allowed to leave it to my family?

as i answered before: I don't know, it could just "vanish", given away to a 50 random strangers, given to the state, given to a "good" course. i don't care, im just stating that inheritance of wealth does not go well with your people are born equal. you can only have one of the options.

[gollum]

People actively not paying taxes are actually contributing to the evolution of the government without knowing it! When you dont pay tax you starve the government and forces it to become more efficient. Thats something economists should make research on - the efficiency of low tax vs high tax countries.