Why are people so eager to pay tax?

[gmaxwell]

Isn't that a part of the attraction of bitcoin? You can AVOID tax?

Nope. It doesn't have that property.

And as for "realized gains", why not just sell your bitcoins offline to some person willing to show up at a coffee shop and pay cash?

Because you still owe taxes on that transaction.

Paperwork is painful enough. Why add to the misery?

Because getting prosecuted for tax evasion is far far more miserable.

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[kokjo]

Funny and distressing thread at the same time.
Definitely statism supporters are at the same mental level than the "usual" religious fanatics, maybe worse. For sure more dangerous.


P.S. a good read for those with a bit o brain left  http://www.polyarchy.org/manifesto/english/introduction.html

I assume you mean me? Can I ask you where you got your education to write that? How did you get to work today? via private roads I assume. Without taxation there would be no state, without the state your life would be a struggle to survive.

+1

give up dude, libertards are just as other fanatics narrow-minded and impossible to discuss with.

[Luno]

This thread is really getting more and more interesting. Not necessarily because of my posts, but the combined effort here really is about defining a reasonable form of society.

The point is not coming to a consensus, but accepting that your neighbor is a complete idiot, a parasite on government welfare or an anti social egocentric but still deserves the right to his lifestyle even if he is the exact opposite of you.

Perhaps thats what nationalism is for?

[Severian]

Definitely statism supporters are at the same mental level than the "usual" religious fanatics, maybe worse. For sure more dangerous.

Statists have murdered tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions, of people in the past 100 years or so. Religious fanatics have killed far, far fewer people.

At least with religion, there's some kind of code present that prevents some its followers from engaging in violence. That can't be said for the fanatic irrationality of statists.

This is what puzzles me about statists that are interested in Bitcoin: it's the most rational monetary tool ever employed yet attracts some of the most irrational believers in the very entity that would see it crushed.

[Severian]

Isn't that a part of the attraction of bitcoin? You can AVOID tax?

Nope. It doesn't have that property.

By its very nature, Bitcoin avoids taxation. A bitcoin holder has to go through extra effort to get taxed on his holdings.

[Elwar]

I cannot wait until people who do not pay taxes are kicked out of the country.



How do they get to work? Private roads?

But at least those 49% who do not pay taxes are advocating for less government and more privatization...right? So they would at least be consistent.

What, they actually do not pay taxes and yet still overwhelmingly vote for bigger government? How could this be so?


That would make people who do not want to pay taxes but actually want a government that reflects no taxes...consistent. While the rest would be...freeloaders.

[Hawker]

I cannot wait until people who do not pay taxes are kicked out of the country.

You misread the image.   Its income tax only that they don't pay.  The reason they don't pay income tax is that their income is too low.  For example, a guy who works all his life in low paid jobs, retires at 70 with no savings and lives on his social security.

[Elwar]

I cannot wait until people who do not pay taxes are kicked out of the country.

You misread the image.   Its income tax only that they don't pay.  The reason they don't pay income tax is that their income is too low.  For example, a guy who works all his life in low paid jobs, retires at 70 with no savings and lives on his social security.

So those people do not want to contribute their fair share?

[chufchuf]

I cannot wait until people who do not pay taxes are kicked out of the country.

You misread the image.   Its income tax only that they don't pay.  The reason they don't pay income tax is that their income is too low.  For example, a guy who works all his life in low paid jobs, retires at 70 with no savings and lives on his social security.

So those people do not want to contribute their fair share?

No, it's those people that are less skilled, less intelligent, and less strong.

[Elwar]

Everyone seems to agree that it's "moral" to pay your taxes, and immoral not to pay taxes.

If I am being robbed in the alley, how is it moral or immoral for me to hand over my money?

Most people believe that it is moral to rob someone. They go out of their way to justify that morality with things like roads and schools and firemen. But they are still justifying theft.

[Elwar]

I cannot wait until people who do not pay taxes are kicked out of the country.

You misread the image.   Its income tax only that they don't pay.  The reason they don't pay income tax is that their income is too low.  For example, a guy who works all his life in low paid jobs, retires at 70 with no savings and lives on his social security.

So those people do not want to contribute their fair share?

No, it's those people that are less skilled, less intelligent, and less strong.

So, do they not use government services?

[Hawker]

I cannot wait until people who do not pay taxes are kicked out of the country.

You misread the image.   Its income tax only that they don't pay.  The reason they don't pay income tax is that their income is too low.  For example, a guy who works all his life in low paid jobs, retires at 70 with no savings and lives on his social security.

So those people do not want to contribute their fair share?

Again you misread the image.  They do pay their fair share.  Income tax is tax on income above a certain level because its a waste of time and effort chasing peons for pennies.  When they work, they generate payroll tax.  When they spend, they generate sales tax.  But what they don't do is earn enough income to cover the cost of assessing their tax returns. 

In simple terms, if you want to charge the very poor income tax, then you have to raise income tax on the rest of the population as well.  Since the very poor don't generate enough income to matter, all you would be doing is raising taxes on the rest of us.  No thanks.

[Elwar]

I cannot wait until people who do not pay taxes are kicked out of the country.

You misread the image.   Its income tax only that they don't pay.  The reason they don't pay income tax is that their income is too low.  For example, a guy who works all his life in low paid jobs, retires at 70 with no savings and lives on his social security.

So those people do not want to contribute their fair share?

Again you misread the image.  They do pay their fair share.  Income tax is tax on income above a certain level because its a waste of time and effort chasing peons for pennies.  When they work, they generate payroll tax.  When they spend, they generate sales tax.  But what they don't do is earn enough income to cover the cost of assessing their tax returns. 

In simple terms, if you want to charge the very poor income tax, then you have to raise income tax on the rest of the population as well.  Since the very poor don't generate enough income to matter, all you would be doing is raising taxes on the rest of us.  No thanks.

That is fine. As long as they do not use the services paid for by taxpayers.

[Hawker]

I cannot wait until people who do not pay taxes are kicked out of the country.

You misread the image.   Its income tax only that they don't pay.  The reason they don't pay income tax is that their income is too low.  For example, a guy who works all his life in low paid jobs, retires at 70 with no savings and lives on his social security.

So those people do not want to contribute their fair share?

Again you misread the image.  They do pay their fair share.  Income tax is tax on income above a certain level because its a waste of time and effort chasing peons for pennies.  When they work, they generate payroll tax.  When they spend, they generate sales tax.  But what they don't do is earn enough income to cover the cost of assessing their tax returns. 

In simple terms, if you want to charge the very poor income tax, then you have to raise income tax on the rest of the population as well.  Since the very poor don't generate enough income to matter, all you would be doing is raising taxes on the rest of us.  No thanks.

That is fine. As long as they do not use the services paid for by taxpayers.

They are taxpayers but they are not paying income tax at the moment. 

Since you don't understand this, let me give the example again.  A guy who works all his life in low paid jobs, retires at 70 with no savings and lives on his social security.  While he worked, he paid income tax and generated payroll tax.  His wife stayed at home with the kids and did not.  Both he and she are below the level at which income tax applies.  Both are entitled to use any services for which they are eligible.  As they should be...

[Elwar]

Both are entitled to use any services for which they are eligible.  As they should be...

So...some people who do not pay income taxes should be eligible to use government services?

[Severian]

So...some people who do not pay income taxes should be eligible to use government services?

Oil companies get military escorts for their tankers and skate from taxes every year.

Fuck it. Just kill the poor that are too weak to work in the camps. That's where this conversation usually ends up.

[ammo88]

So...some people who do not pay income taxes should be eligible to use government services?

Oil companies get military escorts for their tankers and skate from taxes every year.

Fuck it. Just kill the poor that are too weak to work in the camps. That's where this conversation usually ends up.

Good, now that question is answered and out of the way.

Next question, plzz?

[Elwar]

So...some people who do not pay income taxes should be eligible to use government services?

Oil companies get military escorts for their tankers and skate from taxes every year.

Why would you pay for that?

[Jobe7]

about Denmark: civil rights was introduced gradually from 1788 to 1800 for the farmer population, the non land owners. From the age of 4 until the age of 40 you was obliged to live and work in the shire they were born in as the property of the local count!

The end of monarchy as the only political power happend in 1841 as the king, Frederik the 7'th, didn't care much about politics and the elitist citizen group demanded that he stepped down. A rally was organized and when they reached the royal castle (the current parliament), Frederik the 7'th responded by the famous words: "I'm happy to announce that your current demands have already been met and the royal ministry have already been dissolved".

I guess he was scared by what was happening around Europe. Denmark had the whimpist "revolution" by far. following this, power was divided between the 152 members of the first constitutional assembly. The division in social classes was apparent in selecting the domains of governmental institutions.

The current ruling party today "Socialdemokraterne" originated in 1871 as a socialist union movement fighting police in the streets. However today, Denmark living on the mercy of strict monetary policies, together with the rest of Europe and the fact that budgets are always agreed upon with the opposition, means that the notion of Denmark as a "socialist country" is nothing but a sour insult to the lefties around here!

Because of that, Socialdemokraterne today have a historical low public support, only around 15% as of yesterday. The same as in 1898.

Ahh ok, I didn't know that, I assumed they had a bloody revolution same as everywhere else, understandable the confusion mix with kokjo now.

[Severian]

Oil companies get military escorts for their tankers and skate from taxes every year.

Why would you pay for that?

I think the proper question is why do oil companies not pay?