Bitcoin Forum
December 18, 2017, 08:49:59 PM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: [IDEA] Coins for vending machines  (Read 1098 times)
mak
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 332


Forth


View Profile
March 11, 2017, 09:46:07 AM
 #1

 Lightning  is difficult to implement. I believe it may be also not always
convenient to use.
First of all, it only makes sense to open a Lightning channel with a
shop if you plan to make purchases there regularly. A network of
Lightning channels needs to be created too. It has its own problems: the
time a transaction takes (by blockchain) is needed to guarantee the transaction.
To open a payment channel, a funding transaction is also required.
Actually, most automated shops with a lot of micro sales don’t need each
and every payment to be guaranteed. For them, to have profit it is
enough to get just a fraction of payments, as long as the expected value
matches the item’s price. No need to say, the amount transferred (and
the buyer’s exposure) is inversely proportional to the probability of
the transfer to get through.
I suggest using probabilistic transactions. They look like standard
transactions but have a low probability of being recorded in the
blockchain. In fact, the automated shop sells goods merely for a chance
of the payment to be recorded. Because most of these transactions do not
make it to the blockchain, they won’t take any space in the blocks. Fees
for probabilistic transactions become probabilistic too.
This is not to say that we should dump Lightning completely, let alone
standard transactions. But everything must be fit for its purpose.
Comparing with standard transactions, probabilistic ones only require
two things added: each should contain a block number and a miner’s good
signature.
A good signature is a signature that satisfies a particular function.
(Instead of a block number, it may be any identifier of the current or
previous block.) To prevent double-spending, the fee for a probabilistic
transaction should be no lower than the expected value of funds
transferred.

1BaQQymzbqgdGrHyhpYEbKccRcxaZt554y
xpm ATndrBBHAwYfcvAdih22nnEz2kkpVkjEN5
1513630199
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513630199

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513630199
Reply with quote  #2

1513630199
Report to moderator
1513630199
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513630199

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513630199
Reply with quote  #2

1513630199
Report to moderator
1513630199
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513630199

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513630199
Reply with quote  #2

1513630199
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
catchcoin
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 334


View Profile
March 12, 2017, 02:15:25 AM
 #2

yeah,this seems a good idea,and wish you have a big success.

segovia
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 4


View Profile
March 14, 2017, 09:47:37 AM
 #3

Sounds reasonable, good job!  Cool

By "automated shops" do you mean vending machines only, or you consider other options, like small online vendors, smart contract stores etc.?
cloverme
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1260


SpacePirate.io


View Profile WWW
March 14, 2017, 03:27:41 PM
 #4

You could also use a 21.co micropayment channel. The drawback is that you're using a centralized service, but until the fee/block issue is resolved for good, it's a reasonable workaround. https://21.co/learn/21-micropayments/#micropayment-channels

Your bigger problem is actually getting vending machines outfitted with a custom payment. A few years ago I worked on a project to add biometric payment to vending machines, let me say that vending machines are a pain in the ass. That being said, check out Matt's work here on bitcoin-enabling a vending machine:
http://www.mattwhitlock.com/vendingpi/



         ▄▄▄████████▄▄▄
      ▄██████████████████▄
    ▄██████████████████████▄
  ▄██████████████████████████▄
 ▄████████████████████████████▌
▄██████████████████████████████▌
████████████████████████████████
██████▀     ▀██████▀     ▀██████
█████        ▐████▌        █████
█████        ▐████▌        █████
██████▄    ▄████████▄    ▄██████
▀█████████████▀  ▀█████████████▀
  ▀▀██████████▄▄▄▄██████████▀▀
     ▀▀██████████████████▀▀
       ████▀███▀▀███▀████
       ▀██▀ ▀█▀  ▀█▀ ▀██▀
║█║
║░║
║░║
║█║
mak
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 332


Forth


View Profile
March 15, 2017, 12:33:06 PM
 #5

By "automated shops" do you mean vending machines only, or you consider other options, like small online vendors, smart contract stores etc.?

 
What do you mean by “smart contract stores”?

By automated shops I mean not so much vending machines as mechanical
devices but rather network servers. These are command interpreters using
probabilistic transactions as parameters. First of all it concerns
personal file shops. As soon as many people start sharing their catalogs
for sale, we’ll need search engines to save doing the same job many
times. Also, a catalog opened for paid record (when a valid transaction
is received) can serve as a paid mailbox. For cloud computing an open
mining pool without user registration could be used etc.



1BaQQymzbqgdGrHyhpYEbKccRcxaZt554y
xpm ATndrBBHAwYfcvAdih22nnEz2kkpVkjEN5
mak
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 332


Forth


View Profile
March 18, 2017, 07:08:11 AM
 #6

Your bigger problem is actually getting vending machines outfitted with a custom payment.

Instant micropayments are a relatively new use case for
cryptocurrencies. The first steps into this territory must be the most
difficult. It is crucial that all cryptocurrency users are enabled to
make micropayments easily and without any extra manipulations. The
infrastructure for probabilistic transactions is not there yet, but
still they seem the most promising solution in terms of unification.

1BaQQymzbqgdGrHyhpYEbKccRcxaZt554y
xpm ATndrBBHAwYfcvAdih22nnEz2kkpVkjEN5
mak
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 332


Forth


View Profile
March 30, 2017, 06:53:35 AM
 #7

Quote from: mak
To prevent double-spending, the fee for a probabilistic
transaction should be no lower than the expected value of funds
transferred.

For some cases, this one condition won't be enough.
It doesn't take into account that there may be many probabilistic
transactions.
At an attempt to empty the wallet from which the shop expects to receive
its payment, the shop should be able to raise the transaction fee.
We still need the option to raise fees for cached transactions.

1BaQQymzbqgdGrHyhpYEbKccRcxaZt554y
xpm ATndrBBHAwYfcvAdih22nnEz2kkpVkjEN5
FA wings
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 214



View Profile
March 30, 2017, 02:47:53 PM
 #8

Seems to be very good, but I'm not very understand, you can simply say it to me?

Excuse me is a new person

ANHEQIAO
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 26


View Profile
March 30, 2017, 03:08:54 PM
 #9

Good idea, but you have to promise the Coins for vending those can safely proceed, otherwise it is unrealistic。
mak
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 332


Forth


View Profile
March 31, 2017, 09:20:24 AM
 #10

Quote from: ANHEQIAO
you have to promise the Coins for vending those can safely proceed
The recording of a probabilistic transaction into the blockchain is the passing of Coins.
This event is a low probability. It is enough that this probability should be certain.
The purse should be indicate the amount in the transaction, otherwise the transaction is not valid.

Quote from: FA wings
you can simply say it to me?

I tried to write simply. I can explain something more. Tell me, what's not clear?
The probabilistic transactions is electronic lottery tickets.

ps еnglish is not native

1BaQQymzbqgdGrHyhpYEbKccRcxaZt554y
xpm ATndrBBHAwYfcvAdih22nnEz2kkpVkjEN5
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!