[Maybe WTS] 2013 Casascius Silver/Gilt MS-70

[wheelz1200]

Any idea on how much it would be worth?

To the right buyer, potentially 30 BTC or more. May sound absurd to some but that 0.5 S2 @ MS70 is worth a ridiculous sum of money.

Previous non-graded s2 0.5s have been sold for 20BTC+ and graded ones for 25btc+. As the ms70 is the only piece in the world and the only one to complete a ms70 set I think it's value will be well over 30btc (if not double) once buyers show up. Maybe a bitcoin museum in the future?

Last one i seen get auctioned off went for 10btc or so.  And that was when btc was much lower.  True to each his own, but id rather buy 7-10 series 3 silver halves even for that price.  20btc and im getting a sack of halves.

Edit: for 20btc id rather get a 1000btc off coblee and have some change left over, no?

[TMAN]

Any idea on how much it would be worth?

To the right buyer, potentially 30 BTC or more. May sound absurd to some but that 0.5 S2 @ MS70 is worth a ridiculous sum of money.

Previous non-graded s2 0.5s have been sold for 20BTC+ and graded ones for 25btc+. As the ms70 is the only piece in the world and the only one to complete a ms70 set I think it's value will be well over 30btc (if not double) once buyers show up. Maybe a bitcoin museum in the future?

Last one i seen get auctioned off went for 10btc or so.  And that was when btc was much lower.  True to each his own, but id rather buy 7-10 series 3 silver halves even for that price.  20btc and im getting a sack of halves.

Wheelz - we know you also buy the house wine in a restaurant... some people start from the top of the wine list... others from the bottom..

you cant help it if you are tight buddy!

[wheelz1200]

Any idea on how much it would be worth?

To the right buyer, potentially 30 BTC or more. May sound absurd to some but that 0.5 S2 @ MS70 is worth a ridiculous sum of money.

Previous non-graded s2 0.5s have been sold for 20BTC+ and graded ones for 25btc+. As the ms70 is the only piece in the world and the only one to complete a ms70 set I think it's value will be well over 30btc (if not double) once buyers show up. Maybe a bitcoin museum in the future?

Last one i seen get auctioned off went for 10btc or so.  And that was when btc was much lower.  True to each his own, but id rather buy 7-10 series 3 silver halves even for that price.  20btc and im getting a sack of halves.

Wheelz - we know you also buy the house wine in a restaurant... some people start from the top of the wine list... others from the bottom..

you cant help it if you are tight buddy!

For the price coblee is offering, id much rather buy a 1000btc gold cas allllllll day long 

[Gatorelf]

here is the better link I was looking for, this is a pic of my coin thats graded and a population count below.

http://www.anacs.com/Populations/CertVerification.aspx?cert=4584534

Im still wondering what HC stands for?  Im sure its something simple and Im just spacing out on it or something

I have full silver set I need to get graded...just debating on whether to mail them in or deliver in person. Just found out they are in Englewood CO and I will be going there this spring. 

I wonder what an ungraded .5 S2 would go for?

[monkeynuts]

I seem to recall HC was High or Heavy Cameo

They wont grade on the spot in the office I dont believe. Hitting them at a coin show, they will do it there and then. They have a mail list, sign up and look out for the ANACS on the road announcements

[Gatorelf]

I seem to recall HC was High or Heavy Cameo

They wont grade on the spot in the office I dont believe. Hitting them at a coin show, they will do it there and then. They have a mail list, sign up and look out for the ANACS on the road announcements

ahhh ok thanks for that info, the only thing Ive ever had graded was some comic books... I think CGC is in Tampa

[owlcatz]

I seem to recall HC was High or Heavy Cameo

They wont grade on the spot in the office I dont believe. Hitting them at a coin show, they will do it there and then. They have a mail list, sign up and look out for the ANACS on the road announcements

Isn't HC the same thing as DCAM? (Deep Cameo)? I don't have any sheets from anacs handy, but I believe the ones that say HC on the paperwork i've had come back always say DCAM on the slabs? Interesting on the grading at roadshows, never heard of that, will have to get back on their spam list, thanks!

Not only that, but they send out emails with deals and coupons all the time.
Some good ones every once in a while....

They only ever sent me offers/deals on US mint coins, which obviously, are not what I really collect, so I had unsubscribed. I guess I should learn more about regular coins too.

[digicoinuser]

We've uncovered a mystery!   

Maybe they use HC when DCAM is too many characters for the labeling?

[NattyLiteCoin]

For my reference, does a world renowned mint strike MS-70 coins off the press? Or is it a mixed bag or MS-68's, 9's and potentially no 70's? Also, what is the check and balances for attributing an MS-70 rating? It seems as though there's such a fine line between 69 and 70, no? What's to stop a collector knowing he's got a coin of superior quality and buy an MS-70 rating over a 69?

[owlcatz]

From my experience, it's literally a crapshoot. I have had some coins going in thinking they would be 70 but came back as 69's. All good for me, but damn, it seems to be like a dice roll.

[TheAnalogKid]

For my reference, does a world renowned mint strike MS-70 coins off the press? Or is it a mixed bag or MS-68's, 9's and potentially no 70's? Also, what is the check and balances for attributing an MS-70 rating? It seems as though there's such a fine line between 69 and 70, no? What's to stop a collector knowing he's got a coin of superior quality and buy an MS-70 rating over a 69?

No mint grades their coins, they all come off the assembly line as-struck and usually put into either a "mint tube" roll of 10/20/40 (depending on coin size), or put into capsules (they will charge extra).  There is no way to know how any coin, round, or bar will grade from the mint, they are all put through the exact same minting process.  Usually you will have a variation of anywhere from MS-67 through MS-69 in most tubes of modern pressed coins (government or private mint), with a very few getting the 70. 

All grading is done by a 3rd party Grading company (TPG).  The "Big 3" are PCGS, NGC and ANACS.  ICG, SEGS, and some others round out the lower tier.

Each grader is human, and while there are written and pictoral guidelines, any grader can slightly differ from the other.  Most of the top TPG's use a trio of graders per coin, with none of the others knowing who graded before them or after, each coin raw, and no notes shared.  Each coin goes under a loupe/magnifier at a certain X number (I think it's 30, can't remember) and any imperfections are noted and count towards the grade.

Each coin usually spends less than 10 seconds with each grader, where they have to find imperfections and notate everything.  Think about that.  10 seconds or less.

There is such a fine line between a 69 and 70 -  some 70's could be 69's and vice versa.  There are many stories where people will re-submit a 70 and get a 69, or a 69 and it comes back a 70.  Most non-professional graders can't tell the difference between them, and with pros, you will also vary widely.

[TheAnalogKid]

Thanks for that.
So it's pretty much a crap-shoot.
Geez... wonder if people are having a bad day and look at a coin for 10 seconds... bad grades all around.

10 seconds??? seems pretty unprofessional to me.
Sounds like we could all do a better job grading crypto coins than most of these services.

Well, all depends.  I've been a collector (normal coinage) for probably 20+ years, and if I see a decent close up shot of a coin I can usually guesstimate grade within 1-2 points with a 10 second look at the photo.  And that's just as a hobbyist.  Imagine if you're a professional grader and all you do day in and day out is look at coins.  They've probably each seen 90% of all coin types and conditions ever graded, and can easily peg a coin with 95% certainty what it would be very quickly just by picking it up before it goes under the loupe.

Now, there's exceptions to the rule as well.  I'd guesstimate that at least 85% of the coins going through a TPG are "common" - Morgan/Peace/Ike dollars, ASE's, all general US Mint coinage from the past 100 years.  Those I would say a pro grader could pick a spot-on grade in probably under 5 seconds since they see them all the time.  The "uncommon" ones - and those that are high value of any series - are usually flagged and go to a special panel of graders who spend much more time examining them and this time they all talk and come to a consensus on what it is.  Now, we're talking coins that are worth many thousands of dollars here... anything we're talking about with our rounds and most modern mint issues are not anywhere near that.

And the reason why its so quick is that they're looking at certain areas of the coins, not the whole thing.  Certain areas of the coin count towards the grade, others not so much.

Each series of coin has a set of "focal points" where your eyes naturally tend towards when you look at it.  This is what the graders concentrate on, and the grade is 99% of the time derived from.  It's easy and quick to examine the focal points of most coinage when you know them.  I can look at an eisenhower dollar and in under 10 seconds usually come within a point of a professional grader.  They don't examine the parts of the coin that "don't matter", such as the edge, and ignore most rim dings.  Especially in our case there's usually a hologram covering a good chunk of the reverse, which is mostly ignored unless it's mangled.

You're not too far off tho with your comment about the "bad day", graders are human after all, and they will get it wrong enough.  I'm sure there's more than a few coins in a 69 slab out there that should have been 70's, which is why 70's are held with such a higher premium.  It's so hard to get everyone to agree that a coins is that good to deserve it.

[Blazed]

Thanks for that.
So it's pretty much a crap-shoot.
Geez... wonder if people are having a bad day and look at a coin for 10 seconds... bad grades all around.

10 seconds??? seems pretty unprofessional to me.
Sounds like we could all do a better job grading crypto coins than most of these services.

Well, all depends.  I've been a collector (normal coinage) for probably 20+ years, and if I see a decent close up shot of a coin I can usually guesstimate grade within 1-2 points with a 10 second look at the photo.  And that's just as a hobbyist.  Imagine if you're a professional grader and all you do day in and day out is look at coins.  They've probably each seen 90% of all coin types and conditions ever graded, and can easily peg a coin with 95% certainty what it would be very quickly just by picking it up before it goes under the loupe.

Now, there's exceptions to the rule as well.  I'd guesstimate that at least 85% of the coins going through a TPG are "common" - Morgan/Peace/Ike dollars, ASE's, all general US Mint coinage from the past 100 years.  Those I would say a pro grader could pick a spot-on grade in probably under 5 seconds since they see them all the time.  The "uncommon" ones - and those that are high value of any series - are usually flagged and go to a special panel of graders who spend much more time examining them and this time they all talk and come to a consensus on what it is.  Now, we're talking coins that are worth many thousands of dollars here... anything we're talking about with our rounds and most modern mint issues are not anywhere near that.

And the reason why its so quick is that they're looking at certain areas of the coins, not the whole thing.  Certain areas of the coin count towards the grade, others not so much.

Each series of coin has a set of "focal points" where your eyes naturally tend towards when you look at it.  This is what the graders concentrate on, and the grade is 99% of the time derived from.  It's easy and quick to examine the focal points of most coinage when you know them.  I can look at an eisenhower dollar and in under 10 seconds usually come within a point of a professional grader.  They don't examine the parts of the coin that "don't matter", such as the edge, and ignore most rim dings.  Especially in our case there's usually a hologram covering a good chunk of the reverse, which is mostly ignored unless it's mangled.

You're not too far off tho with your comment about the "bad day", graders are human after all, and they will get it wrong enough.  I'm sure there's more than a few coins in a 69 slab out there that should have been 70's, which is why 70's are held with such a higher premium.  It's so hard to get everyone to agree that a coins is that good to deserve it.

tl;dr This MS-70 is a rare gem that demands a nice premium. Make some more offers people and I might let her go!

I already have an offer of 3BTC

[HabBear]

Sounds like we could all do a better job grading crypto coins than most of these services.

But let's be honest about the range of variation in these coins. Except for the 2011 brass, the rest that are being offered for sale have NEVER been circulated, never sat unprotected in a desk drawer or in jeans pockets. They're all "from Mike's hands to yours" uncirculated mint condition.

The only criteria that can has variation to grade upon is the alignment of the first bits, the quality of the hologram, the alignment of the hologram to the obverse side BTC. Scuffs and condition of metal should also fall in this category but since these aren't circulated there are zero variation on the metal among coins.

So, to your point...are we the suckers for sending ANACS "the same" coins and believing in their varied grades?

If anything it makes ANACS choice to assign this coin as a 70 even more rare.

[Blazed]

Top offer so far is 3.5BTC

[coin@coin]

The only MS-70 I have is a 0.1 silver. Imagine a whole set of Casascius in MS-70. 

Will we ever see that? Or does anyone know of anyone who may have a set?

15BTC and one can be yours bud...

Oh wow didn't think that would have been possible. Congrats if you own one.

[vizique]

The only MS-70 I have is a 0.1 silver. Imagine a whole set of Casascius in MS-70. 

Will we ever see that? Or does anyone know of anyone who may have a set?

15BTC and one can be yours bud...

Oh wow didn't think that would have been possible. Congrats if you own one.

I believe there are two complete MS70 sets in existence

Viz

[Zeroxal]

The only MS-70 I have is a 0.1 silver. Imagine a whole set of Casascius in MS-70. 

Will we ever see that? Or does anyone know of anyone who may have a set?

15BTC and one can be yours bud...

Oh wow didn't think that would have been possible. Congrats if you own one.

I believe there are two complete MS70 sets in existence

Viz

Don't think there is another ms70 s2 0.5 out there to complete another set. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[dazedfool]

So Blazer, did you sell this janky old round? 

[Frank Lefty Rosenthal]

Sent you a pm OP.