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Author Topic: [CANCELLED] High Frequency Trading Algorithm ETF IPO  (Read 5923 times)
Rodyland
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April 23, 2013, 05:18:06 AM
 #41

I've got a couple of ideas.  Why don't you treat this as just another ETF?  What sort of prospectus information would need to be published for a new ETF/hedge fund?  Forget it's bitcoin, that's an implementation detail.

Or, imagine you're approached by an anonymous stranger on the internet, and he asks you to invest your hard-earned and not-all-that-keen-to-piss-away money in him (ie. you're not a millionaire with a couple grand to drop on a "what he hell" investment).   What sort of information would _you_ want to be presented with?  What would convince _you_ that the whole endeavour is legit and not just some half baked scam?

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April 23, 2013, 05:30:39 AM
 #42

I am interested. However, I would like to get more data:

1. What part of the profit (if any) will be fed back into the algorithm and what part will be given out as dividends?
2. What happens if btc-e is ddosed/shuts down/your account is hacked?
3. How reliable is your infrastructure? Is it running on a dedicated server/ec2? How is it monitored?
4. I assume most trading activities carry risk. Do you have any risk assessment for the types of trades/positions you will be involved in?
5. Can you provide a time graph of your earnings, preferably superimposed over btc/usd and other relevant ratios (since you said you are also trading other cryptos)
6. Related to 5, which cryptos will you be trading? I assume btc, ltc. Are there more?
7. A screenshot of the algorithm in action/log file/sample transactions might help convincing (if possible).

Sorry for raining questions on you, your effort is appreciated.
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April 23, 2013, 05:54:45 AM
 #43

What happens if you can't sell all your shares?

If you sold 100,000 shares at 0.2 BTC each in your IPO, you would have the biggest asset on BTC-TC (by market cap) - twice as big as the current leader and twenty times as big as #2.

I don't think there is any chance of your IPO succeeding with that as your goal. Honestly, I would be surprised if you sold 100 shares.

I hate to be so negative and skeptical, but your statements lead me to believe that one or both of these statements are true:

1. You are a newbie, and your lack of experience means that the probability of failure is very high.
2. You are a scammer.

Why don't you stick around for a while? Contribute to the community and build some credibility before asking people to give you money.

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April 23, 2013, 06:00:04 AM
 #44

This is silly, you're a real HFT outfit yet you're talking about doing a play IPO on a play simulated-asset-exchange?

What law firm advises you on this stuff?

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April 23, 2013, 10:04:05 AM
 #45

This is silly, you're a real HFT outfit yet you're talking about doing a play IPO on a play simulated-asset-exchange?

What law firm advises you on this stuff?

-MarkM-

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April 23, 2013, 11:32:12 AM
 #46

This is silly, you're a real HFT outfit yet you're talking about doing a play IPO on a play simulated-asset-exchange?

What law firm advises you on this stuff?

-MarkM-


Do you have existing exposure to HFT trading profits? This is where I think there is demand
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April 23, 2013, 11:36:22 AM
 #47

What happens if you can't sell all your shares?

If you sold 100,000 shares at 0.2 BTC each in your IPO, you would have the biggest asset on BTC-TC (by market cap) - twice as big as the current leader and twenty times as big as #2.

I don't think there is any chance of your IPO succeeding with that as your goal. Honestly, I would be surprised if you sold 100 shares.

I hate to be so negative and skeptical, but your statements lead me to believe that one or both of these statements are true:

1. You are a newbie, and your lack of experience means that the probability of failure is very high.
2. You are a scammer.

Why don't you stick around for a while? Contribute to the community and build some credibility before asking people to give you money.


I am a newbie at creating my own IPO, if that is what you mean. This isn't a skill most people are exposed to, and even the ones that are do not manage all the elements of it, except here in bitcoin land. I couldn't find a template or figure out where to do the roadshow in this market. I want to offer exposure to the HFT profits.

I didn't price this based on the size of current companies, but I did notice that there are ALOT of outstanding shares in even the biggest share companies, such as ASIC-MINER PT. The manager of it owns half of the shares and few people hold any of the other half. So I don't expect all the shares to be held overnight.

(Regarding many shares not selling) If the share capital is under certain thresholds then the algorithm will not run since I won't be able to meet any meaningful diversification criteria in the fiat capital markets. If the share capital is that low I can run the algorithm on the order books on BTC-E without disrupting liquidity, but it is intended that the HFT also trades in the fiat capital markets.


I'll stick around but the company has accumulated diverse cryptocurrency holdings and simply hasn't needed to signup here except for the fact that this is the only place where people talk about their securities and btc companies. If there was a more official-like or standardized place to do a roadshow, I wouldn't be here.....
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April 23, 2013, 11:58:00 AM
 #48

I am interested. However, I would like to get more data:

1. What part of the profit (if any) will be fed back into the algorithm and what part will be given out as dividends?
2. What happens if btc-e is ddosed/shuts down/your account is hacked?
3. How reliable is your infrastructure? Is it running on a dedicated server/ec2? How is it monitored?
4. I assume most trading activities carry risk. Do you have any risk assessment for the types of trades/positions you will be involved in?
5. Can you provide a time graph of your earnings, preferably superimposed over btc/usd and other relevant ratios (since you said you are also trading other cryptos)
6. Related to 5, which cryptos will you be trading? I assume btc, ltc. Are there more?
7. A screenshot of the algorithm in action/log file/sample transactions might help convincing (if possible).

Sorry for raining questions on you, your effort is appreciated.

1. reserved
2. coins won't sit on the exchanges, only when trading. This the the current way to mitigate what I will call exchange risk
3. reserved
4. I think this is addressed in the original post.
5. reserved
6. BTC, LTC . Evaluations of others based on their liquidity.
7. reserved

reserved answers are just placeholders for answers longer than 1 line
TradeFortress
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April 23, 2013, 12:01:04 PM
 #49

> "ASIC-MINER PT"

That is a passthrough..

> "The manager of it owns half of the shares"

Correction: Half of Bitfountain was offered for sale as ASICMINER (difference being the break even clause). ASICMINER is not one guy, and the manager does not own half of Bitfountain.

> "I want to offer exposure to the HFT profits."

Proof that it actually exists?

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April 23, 2013, 12:01:58 PM
 #50

I am interested. However, I would like to get more data:

1. What part of the profit (if any) will be fed back into the algorithm and what part will be given out as dividends?
2. What happens if btc-e is ddosed/shuts down/your account is hacked?
3. How reliable is your infrastructure? Is it running on a dedicated server/ec2? How is it monitored?
4. I assume most trading activities carry risk. Do you have any risk assessment for the types of trades/positions you will be involved in?
5. Can you provide a time graph of your earnings, preferably superimposed over btc/usd and other relevant ratios (since you said you are also trading other cryptos)
6. Related to 5, which cryptos will you be trading? I assume btc, ltc. Are there more?
7. A screenshot of the algorithm in action/log file/sample transactions might help convincing (if possible).

Sorry for raining questions on you, your effort is appreciated.

1. reserved
2. coins won't sit on the exchanges, only when trading. This the the current way to mitigate what I will call exchange risk
3. reserved
4. I think this is addressed in the original post.
5. reserved
6. BTC, LTC . Evaluations of others based on their liquidity.
7. reserved
No info about dividends! No info about infrastructure! No earnings info! No screenshots or proof of any kind! Reserved!

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April 23, 2013, 12:02:26 PM
 #51

You act like this forum only has mining securities. No, there's a ton more, and this is one of the shittier ones (like that Joker one).

The downside of a quarterly dividends is that you're able to try to get as much shares sold as possible for 3 months, dump all the shares on the orderbook, and then run away without paying a satoshi.

This isn't "innocent until proven guilty", you need to prove that (i) you can be trusted (ii) you are actually competent at what you do, and actually has a trading algorithm and (iii) that it makes a profit.

I said it was "guilty until senior members stop heckling you" and I wonder, statistically, how effective that has been at preventing scams from happening or preventing the community approved companies from going into receivership. From my casual observation it hasn't and that the senior members are a bigger threat to bitcoin commerce than any of the companies they blacklist.

I understand the need to prove trust as well as offer historical data. But this is a chicken and egg problem, for this IPO, so it is more likely I will begin operations with closely held shares and just post the NAV changes weekly.
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April 23, 2013, 12:03:35 PM
 #52

I am interested. However, I would like to get more data:

1. What part of the profit (if any) will be fed back into the algorithm and what part will be given out as dividends?
2. What happens if btc-e is ddosed/shuts down/your account is hacked?
3. How reliable is your infrastructure? Is it running on a dedicated server/ec2? How is it monitored?
4. I assume most trading activities carry risk. Do you have any risk assessment for the types of trades/positions you will be involved in?
5. Can you provide a time graph of your earnings, preferably superimposed over btc/usd and other relevant ratios (since you said you are also trading other cryptos)
6. Related to 5, which cryptos will you be trading? I assume btc, ltc. Are there more?
7. A screenshot of the algorithm in action/log file/sample transactions might help convincing (if possible).

Sorry for raining questions on you, your effort is appreciated.

1. reserved
2. coins won't sit on the exchanges, only when trading. This the the current way to mitigate what I will call exchange risk
3. reserved
4. I think this is addressed in the original post.
5. reserved
6. BTC, LTC . Evaluations of others based on their liquidity.
7. reserved
No info about dividends! No info about infrastructure! No earnings info! No screenshots or proof of any kind! Reserved!

they are longer answers, take a breather
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April 23, 2013, 12:04:15 PM
 #53

You act like this forum only has mining securities. No, there's a ton more, and this is one of the shittier ones (like that Joker one).

The downside of a quarterly dividends is that you're able to try to get as much shares sold as possible for 3 months, dump all the shares on the orderbook, and then run away without paying a satoshi.

This isn't "innocent until proven guilty", you need to prove that (i) you can be trusted (ii) you are actually competent at what you do, and actually has a trading algorithm and (iii) that it makes a profit.

I said it was "guilty until senior members stop heckling you" and I wonder, statistically, how effective that has been at preventing scams from happening or preventing the community approved companies from going into receivership. From my casual observation it hasn't and that the senior members are a bigger threat to bitcoin commerce than any of the companies they blacklist.

I understand the need to prove trust as well as offer historical data. But this is a chicken and egg problem, for this IPO, so it is more likely I will begin operations with closely held shares and just post the NAV changes weekly.

It sure prevented shit like this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=109883.0

Did you lose money in CoinLenders or Inputs.io? Please contact me by Dec 31st, 2018 to receive a reimbursement
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Rodyland
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April 23, 2013, 12:18:34 PM
 #54

You act like this forum only has mining securities. No, there's a ton more, and this is one of the shittier ones (like that Joker one).

The downside of a quarterly dividends is that you're able to try to get as much shares sold as possible for 3 months, dump all the shares on the orderbook, and then run away without paying a satoshi.

This isn't "innocent until proven guilty", you need to prove that (i) you can be trusted (ii) you are actually competent at what you do, and actually has a trading algorithm and (iii) that it makes a profit.

I said it was "guilty until senior members stop heckling you" and I wonder, statistically, how effective that has been at preventing scams from happening or preventing the community approved companies from going into receivership. From my casual observation it hasn't and that the senior members are a bigger threat to bitcoin commerce than any of the companies they blacklist.

I understand the need to prove trust as well as offer historical data. But this is a chicken and egg problem, for this IPO, so it is more likely I will begin operations with closely held shares and just post the NAV changes weekly.

There is no "chicken and egg" problem here.  We're not asking for proof that you know how to trade bitcoin markets.  We're asking for proof that you know how to trade _any_ markets, for a starter.  If you truly have a day-trading/HFT background then you would already have proof, maybe in the form of an already profitable ETF trading on a _real_ stock exchange, for example.

As I said in a previous post - it's simple.  Imagine it's me asking you to invest a significant proportion of your free cashflow in me and my trading enterprise.  What proof would you want me to show you, to convince you that a) I won't just run away with your money, and b) that I actually know how to turn a profit trading.

There will always be doubters and haters, so stop engaging.  Instead, answer the reasonable questions.

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April 23, 2013, 12:53:47 PM
 #55

I would wait for a better exchange with good volume, stable API, and reasonable fee, no % fee thing, before attempting frequency trading, or wait until IB has it.
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April 23, 2013, 01:04:15 PM
 #56

I am interested. However, I would like to get more data:

1. What part of the profit (if any) will be fed back into the algorithm and what part will be given out as dividends?
2. What happens if btc-e is ddosed/shuts down/your account is hacked?
3. How reliable is your infrastructure? Is it running on a dedicated server/ec2? How is it monitored?
4. I assume most trading activities carry risk. Do you have any risk assessment for the types of trades/positions you will be involved in?
5. Can you provide a time graph of your earnings, preferably superimposed over btc/usd and other relevant ratios (since you said you are also trading other cryptos)
6. Related to 5, which cryptos will you be trading? I assume btc, ltc. Are there more?
7. A screenshot of the algorithm in action/log file/sample transactions might help convincing (if possible).

Sorry for raining questions on you, your effort is appreciated.

1. reserved
2. coins won't sit on the exchanges, only when trading. This the the current way to mitigate what I will call exchange risk
3. reserved
4. I think this is addressed in the original post.
5. reserved
6. BTC, LTC . Evaluations of others based on their liquidity.
7. reserved

reserved answers are just placeholders for answers longer than 1 line

Answer #2 is concerning.

Coins NOT on exchanges aren't doing anything.  So either:

A.  A lot of coins aren't used so you're "mitigating risk" by not using most of the capital - which people can do better themselves just by not sending them to you in the first place.

or

B.  Nearly all coins ARE on exchanges and your answer is irrelevant.

The correct answer would have been that you CAN'T mitigate the risk of exchanges you trade on going bust - it's a risk investors have to assess before parting with their coins.  And they can only do that when you give clear information on how much capital you'll be using on eaching exchange (at which point they'd realise that either this is total fantasy or it's mainly USD-denominated being misrepresented as a BTC investment).
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April 23, 2013, 01:07:32 PM
 #57

You act like this forum only has mining securities. No, there's a ton more, and this is one of the shittier ones (like that Joker one).

The downside of a quarterly dividends is that you're able to try to get as much shares sold as possible for 3 months, dump all the shares on the orderbook, and then run away without paying a satoshi.

This isn't "innocent until proven guilty", you need to prove that (i) you can be trusted (ii) you are actually competent at what you do, and actually has a trading algorithm and (iii) that it makes a profit.

I said it was "guilty until senior members stop heckling you" and I wonder, statistically, how effective that has been at preventing scams from happening or preventing the community approved companies from going into receivership. From my casual observation it hasn't and that the senior members are a bigger threat to bitcoin commerce than any of the companies they blacklist.

I understand the need to prove trust as well as offer historical data. But this is a chicken and egg problem, for this IPO, so it is more likely I will begin operations with closely held shares and just post the NAV changes weekly.

So you (correctly) assert that:

1.  There's a significant amount of harsh questioning of new investments,
2.  A lot of scams/failure still happen.

And then, SOMEHOW, reach the conclusion that means there's too MUCH questioning?  Aren't those two points evidence that there's not enough?  So you really believe everyone should just roll over and hand out cash without question?  Or does that only apply to YOUR investment?
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April 23, 2013, 01:31:13 PM
 #58

1a) Incorp, that is in the public filings.
2a) DAS, IB API
3a) Yes. STS Ltd is in contracts with other entities in various capacities, such as Limited Partnerships between STS and other entities, where the LP gets the profits.

Fantastic, that makes life a bit easier. What's STS Ltd's CRD# or SEC#?

1b) Clearly Newbie jail is pretty pointless now

That's a pretty typical argument, but it does help to show how eager some new users are to get into various parts of the forum..such as lending, auctions, or securities...which 75% of the time speaks volumes to their underlying intentions.

2b) Not a question

As are most statements.

3b) I have been thinking about this throughout the day, and the "guilty till senior members stop heckling you" thing is pretty common here. Literally in every security and alt-coin on this site has this. How does anyone NOT have to be on the defensive in that situation? I am genuinely curious at this point. The skepticism I've felt compelled to respond to, out of bewilderment, has largely been about things not relevant to a successful fund.

I'm not sure how this differs from a real-world scenario. Think of this as your "big debut at an Investment Firm" even if it isn't. You're job when coming to us is to give us the full presentation. Show us your charts, your data, your credentials, your financials...all the evidence that we can utilize to make the most informed decision. You're here to give an astounding presentation on just what you (or your company) have created in order to gather investors.

For the sum of money you're looking to raise, this situation is no different than if you stood in front of a Board and gave your presentation on why they should invest in your algorithm.

The more transparent you are, the better off you'll be. There are a lot of smart people here in the Bitcoin community and we've seen more scams (both real and "would be") than we can count...we're used to smelling bullshit more than a mile (or kilometer) away (not saying you fall in this category, just trying to make a point). We're more than inclined to ask the tough questions, and we expect thorough answers.

I will be continually evaluating what disclosures are relevant to this community. As it appears the technical disclosures I've made are not as relevant here as they would be in the established capital markets. I'm not opposed to personally identifying myself I just cannot completely foresee the consequences of how it will lead to a successful IPO.

The more information you provide, the better off you'll be.

I said it was "guilty until senior members stop heckling you" and I wonder, statistically, how effective that has been at preventing scams from happening or preventing the community approved companies from going into receivership. From my casual observation it hasn't and that the senior members are a bigger threat to bitcoin commerce than any of the companies they blacklist.

Approval by a number of "senior" members doesn't necessarily prevent a scam, but it most certainly helps...and I can say that we've certainly vetted a number of individuals with nefarious intentions, the majority of which are over in the Lending section, but there are a few here in Securities as well. I have no idea how you think senior members are a "bigger threat to bitcoin commerce"...is it because we try not to let new users steal other users money through their carefully crafted words and businesses?


There will always be doubters and haters, so stop engaging.  Instead, answer the reasonable questions.

This ^^

And then, SOMEHOW, reach the conclusion that means there's too MUCH questioning?  Aren't those two points evidence that there's not enough?  So you really believe everyone should just roll over and hand out cash without question?  Or does that only apply to YOUR investment?

This too ^^

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April 23, 2013, 01:43:06 PM
 #59

So you (correctly) assert that:

1.  There's a significant amount of harsh questioning of new investments,
2.  A lot of scams/failure still happen.

Except there's no harsh questioning of new investments. This thing here is NOT an investment. The toilet bowl is not an investment. It is true that in both the toilet bowl and this thing here you could throw money and then flush. This however does NOT make them investments. Investments are NOT those things in which someone could put money, that's not the criteria.

So, in fact, there's (recently) a lot of telling off of idiots who masquerade doing "investments" while doing no such thing. No amount of pretending will save this, the OP's braindamaged attempt to install himself as an actual investment in the symbolic space by this backhand gimmick works no better than his original direct approach, or any better than his attempt to sound sorta like State Street Corporation (and for that matter the Capital One Corporation noob scammer was probably related in some manner on the strength of the naming mo).

Finally, a lot of failures USED to happen, before MP via me introduced this entirely novel, muchly appropiate and very very effective strategy of calling idiots idiots,  scammers scammers and sending delusional noobs packing to the library. Before we pretend like nothing changed it'd be a good idea to compare numbers and see how in fact they got cut in half since MPOE-PR showed up, roughly speaking.

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April 23, 2013, 04:35:38 PM
 #60

Why does it sounds like JDBIF (jokerdragon) on Cryptostocks.... hmmmm


I think the following campaign advertisement will work more effectively for your IPO.
Quote
Hello, Bitcoiners,
look at Joker, now back to me, now back at your coins, now back to me.
Gladly, you got some coins, but if you stopped investing in others and switch to us,
you could possibly be scammed by me. Look down, back up, where are coins?
You’re on a boat that is sinking under the sea. What’s in your hand, our shares.
I have it, it sounds too good like an HYIP?
Look again, the shares are now worth nothing.
Anything is possible when you can trust some random guys in Bitcoin.
I’m now rich

GEMINI ACCOUNT REVIEW - Source of Funds Request
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