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Author Topic: [ANN] [BCAP] THE FIRST DIGITAL LIQUID VENTURE FUND - BLOCKCHAIN CAPITAL FUND  (Read 47990 times)
djang00
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April 11, 2017, 12:45:54 PM
 #261

This ICO raised $10,000,000 in less than a day and is now closed??

Who here invested in this?



Most of us besides Gleb LOL

Yep almost everyone, can confirm.

The right answer is that some of us have sent some coins but it is not certain that we have invested in something. The BCAP balance remains at 0 (zero).
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April 11, 2017, 01:36:14 PM
 #262

I am not investor.
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April 11, 2017, 02:46:36 PM
 #263

I want to ask if anyone invested into the ICO and has seen his ICO token balance displayed in his dashboard. 

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QURREX - QRXTest MVP |Source
www.qurrex.com

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April 11, 2017, 02:53:32 PM
 #264

I want to ask if anyone invested into the ICO and has seen his ICO token balance displayed in his dashboard. 

http://imgur.com/a/USugc
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April 11, 2017, 03:22:43 PM
 #265

Slowly i am also running out of patience. I have sent in BTC 10 minutes after ICO start and nothing so far. I dont even know which Change rate will count. Seems unprofessional to me. In case it gets refund and BTC crashes in the meantime i will be really pissed
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April 11, 2017, 03:27:56 PM
 #266

too many red flags on this

﹏﹏﹋﹌﹌ WPP ENERGY ﹌﹌﹋﹏﹏
≈ WORLD POWER PRODUCTION ≈

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April 11, 2017, 03:29:08 PM
 #267

too many red flags on this

yep, thanks Gleb, much appriciated

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[color=#15B5E2 ]LINK TO ICO | LINK TO DISCUSSION
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April 11, 2017, 03:32:18 PM
Last edit: April 22, 2017, 01:07:59 AM by mprep
 #268

Slowly i am also running out of patience. I have sent in BTC 10 minutes after ICO start and nothing so far. I dont even know which Change rate will count. Seems unprofessional to me. In case it gets refund and BTC crashes in the meantime i will be really pissed

Same here, this is truly uncalled for and not the right start for any project. I would understand they are sorting things out and I would even understand if they can't display the final balance but AT LEAST give the investors a heads up if they actually received the transaction. We are not paying with Paypal or Credit Card where we can just press a button and get the money back, many of us are anxious because we really don't know where the money went.



too many red flags on this

yep, thanks Gleb, much appriciated

I'm pretty sure it's not a scam, just look at the names involved and many investors already came forward confirming their involvement. But it's definitely amateurish and unprofessional the way it was all handled so far, including the attempt to raise the cap an hour before the ICO.

I'm sure the Argon/TokenHub part is to blame for most of it and it would be nice to hear a proper statement from BLOCKCHAIN CAPITAL so we can all have some peace of mind.
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April 11, 2017, 03:42:33 PM
 #269

Slowly i am also running out of patience. I have sent in BTC 10 minutes after ICO start and nothing so far. I dont even know which Change rate will count. Seems unprofessional to me. In case it gets refund and BTC crashes in the meantime i will be really pissed

Same here, this is truly uncalled for and not the right start for any project. I would understand they are sorting things out and I would even understand if they can't display the final balance but AT LEAST give the investors a heads up if they actually received the transaction. We are not paying with Paypal or Credit Card where we can just press a button and get the money back, many of us are anxious because we really don't know where the money went.

Haha turns out, Bag Of Idiots has infinite depth. In a sense that u can pack an unlimited amount of idiots into it and it will still have a free space. Dont ever try to open Bag Of Idiots guys, its worse than touching pandoras box. Characters like skunkaut could crawl out of that box and flood worlds population of well-minded people or whats left from it. What fucking dumbfuck would ever put money into ico these days. Are u what, banging on head or something. Or maybe u live in 2013? 2014? LOL.
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April 11, 2017, 03:45:12 PM
 #270

A lot ppl here seem to smoke crack....
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April 11, 2017, 03:45:39 PM
 #271

All - we have a solution that we anticipate we will start rolling out shortly.  Just to reconfirm - we have everyone's transaction records and you will have your accounts updated soon.
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April 11, 2017, 03:51:41 PM
 #272

Would be nice if you would explain also what actually went wrong. would calm things.
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April 11, 2017, 03:57:45 PM
 #273

A lot ppl here seem to smoke crack....

This is bitcointalk....

Half the people here are either crazy or pushing some hidden agenda.  For example:

Marina, you wanna try again and say that there's no connection between The Argon Group and David Carlson?

What does it matter if someone followed David Carlson on Facebook?  This is not evidence of anything.  If you had actual scam accusations, you would compile all your "evidence" into 1 clear, easy-to-follow report.

Instead of 20 posts which find loose connections between website registrations and social media accounts that reads like a troll Pizzagate conspiracy theory.

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April 11, 2017, 04:12:41 PM
 #274

A lot ppl here seem to smoke crack....

This is bitcointalk....

Half the people here are either crazy or pushing some hidden agenda.  For example:

Marina, you wanna try again and say that there's no connection between The Argon Group and David Carlson?

What does it matter if someone followed David Carlson on Facebook?  This is not evidence of anything.  If you had actual scam accusations, you would compile all your "evidence" into 1 clear, easy-to-follow report.

Instead of 20 posts which find loose connections between website registrations and social media accounts that reads like a troll Pizzagate conspiracy theory.

I suggest you hit the ignore button since there are plenty of unstable people in this forum, I couldn't even read a single post because of so much spam, trolling and nonsense. It teaches you about what's the purpose of trust too, that green number under some users.
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April 11, 2017, 04:18:10 PM
Last edit: April 22, 2017, 01:08:23 AM by mprep
 #275

Well ain't that special! My PM inbox is littered with deleted posts - all from this thread. Don't worry though, Investards, what was deleted ONLY consisted of vital information that Team Argon doesn't want you to know, penned by a pest who has no use in this community according to the latest Newbie on this forum who thinks his shit doesn't stink like rotten tacos.

too many red flags on this

yep, thanks Gleb, much appriciated

Thanks, bits4books.

Reaper3, you're in luck! Some of the red flags have been deleted thanks to Team Argon et al. crying to the mods.



A lot ppl here seem to smoke crack....

This is bitcointalk....

Half the people here are either crazy or pushing some hidden agenda.  For example:

Marina, you wanna try again and say that there's no connection between The Argon Group and David Carlson?

What does it matter if someone followed David Carlson on Facebook?  This is not evidence of anything.  If you had actual scam accusations, you would compile all your "evidence" into 1 clear, easy-to-follow report.

Instead of 20 posts which find loose connections between website registrations and social media accounts that reads like a troll Pizzagate conspiracy theory.

Please point to the post where my findings were based on one person following David Carlson's Facebook page. I'll wait for an eternity while you hunt it down. Hint: It doesn't exist. Why? Because I never penned it, and I'm pretty sure such a follow doesn't exist, and if it did, a wise man once said that such wouldn't be evidence of anything.

I did show that the dude behind Argon Group is directly connected to Carlson and even provided proof of such via a municipal meeting minutes in a county in Washington state after Marina denied that there was no connection, but kindly thanked me for my contribution to this thread.
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April 11, 2017, 05:34:47 PM
 #276

Why is it impossibile to download the offering memorendum?

Here you are:

https://tokenhub.com/static/images/memorandum/memorandum-vf3-1.png
https://tokenhub.com/static/images/memorandum/memorandum-vf3-2.png
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April 11, 2017, 05:46:33 PM
Last edit: May 05, 2017, 01:47:01 PM by MoveCrypto
 #277

Inspired by Gleb's commitment to in-depth due diligence, I also did some detective work of my own

KATHRYN HAUN U.S. DOJ

https://law.stanford.edu/directory/kathryn-haun/

If this is a scam, then why would a federal prosecutor, whose job involves investigating/prosecuting internet scammers, put her name on it?

That's just one out of the dozens of highly credible people who have risked putting their names on this project.

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April 11, 2017, 06:04:44 PM
 #278

I invested in this also mostly because of the ppl putting their names into it. They have a lot more to lose than me in this. And why would they, its a investment fund, win win for both sides if it works out. They get their 25%, and i dont put my BTC in the sand trading myself Wink

But one thing is for sure, if there isnt a good explaination for the ICO mess this was the last time i used tokenhub.
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April 11, 2017, 06:16:46 PM
 #279

I invested in this also mostly because of the ppl putting their names into it. They have a lot more to lose than me in this. And why would they, its a investment fund, win win for both sides if it works out. They get their 25%, and i dont put my BTC in the sand trading myself Wink

But one thing is for sure, if there isnt a good explaination for the ICO mess this was the last time i used tokenhub.

Same here, they got their funds already (well I hope so) so they should fire whoever caused this mess and delays, these are not amateurs or young unknown people trying to get some fund running (I'm not taking a shot at Taas lol). Hopefully it'll all clear very soon and we can start moving forward, well at least the lucky ones that got in...
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April 11, 2017, 08:39:25 PM
 #280

http://www.evanvanness.com/post/159314693901/some-thoughts-on-blockchain-capitals-token-sale


evan van ness

FRIDAY, APRIL 7, 2017
Some thoughts on Blockchain Capital’s token sale

In the future, all assets will be tokenized on a blockchain.  I absolutely believe that can be the future, but…

The Groucho Marx problem

“I don’t want to belong to any club that will accept me as a member.” - Groucho Marx

I don’t want to put money into any private equity fund that will take my money. 


Much of the excess returns that accrue to private equity come from the top funds.  Those top funds don’t need to raise money from little guys.  Why bother with a token sale when you can go get $100 million from CalPERS and TRS?

There’s absolutely a chicken and egg problem here.  It’s likely that securities become tokens, but for now it’s unlikely that the funds likely to produce excess returns want to do a token sale.

[Financegeek note: part of the excess return in private equity is due to the lack of liquidity.  If tokens improve liquidity, then we should expect the liquidity premium to go away and thus expected PE returns should be lower than historical averages.  This depends on how much of the liquidity premium accrues from the illiquidity of the underlying assets vs the illiquidity of the VC fund.]

With that in mind, I had a chance to read the Blockchain Capital document today and wanted to offer some thoughts. 



Bear case:

1.  Didn’t crush it in the first two funds.

This is especially true when you realize that in this space they would have had magnitudes higher return from just buying Ether or Bitcoin. 

Even a relatively naive spray and pray in crypto – buy a fixed amount of every project that passes basic due diligence – would’ve produced better results.

In general, I would not invest in a VC fund with such low visibility into their previous funds.  I was very disappointed in the lack of transparency about performance.  You have to trust their NAV.  They don’t even break out the difference between realized gains and unrealized gains.  For example, I’d like to know how much of their return is due to Coinbase’s valuation.

Also, they don’t mention the size of the previous funds, nor the fee structure for those funds.  Those are relevant when comparing their returns to funds from the same year.  [UPDATE: A Blockchain representative says that they have said that the fee structure is the same as the first two funds, and also that AuM was disclosed in the doc.  That’s true ($30m under management) - but I’d like to know the size of each fund, as well as whether all investors paid 2.5% management fee plus 25% of the gains.  I will update this post accordingly when I hear.]

Furthermore, the rates of return indicated are gross, not net.  So investors in the previous funds actually receive a significantly smaller return than what is indicated, once Blockchain’s fees are deducted. It’s disappointing to me that they only listed the gross returns, because the only thing that matters is the net returns.



2.  They aren’t believers in tokens.

I’m not excited about their thesis - they wrote their terms to allow token sales but the document makes clear that it is not a focus. 

Part of the reason for their relatively low returns is that they didn’t invest in tokens or crypto.  I get it - it’s very hard to raise money to do that.  But at the same time, it didn’t happen, so it’s hard for me to give them credit for seeing just how much they should’ve pushed to get into tokens.

If they didn’t see the last big trend in this space, how can I feel confident they’ll see the next one?



3.  High fees.

The trend on fees has probably been downward, except for the top tier.  These are relatively high fees for (so far) non-top tier returns.

In general, my take on the terms was that it seemed like terms that a fund would start LP negotiations, but eventually the terms would become more investor friendly.  Perhaps Blockchain will prove me wrong by raising the rest of the fund with exactly these terms.  I’m skeptical, however.

Plus, at the risk of being repetitive, they gave gross returns for previous returns, but still haven’t told us what the actual returns for investors have been.



Bull case:

1.  Followon rights in Coinbase, String, and Parity/Ethcore, as well as a few others.

VC is a hits business.  It’s the seed rounds that produce the absurd IRR, but since you get to put more money in later rounds, so the dollar-weighted rate of return can actually be bigger.

If you think that Brian Armstrong is a great recruiter of talent and is well positioned to make Coinbase magnitudes bigger (I think he might!), then you might buy just to get some exposure to Coinbase.  Likewise for String/Parity – though presumably much of those returns will come from tokens, and you could just buy those tokens yourself in the next few months.

It’s worth noting that follow on rights are only useful if Coinbase, String, Parity, etc actually raise more rounds.  You don’t get a piece of Blockchain’s existing investments by investing in this fund.


2.  SEC regulation/lawsuits eliminate token sales for US, thus more US based companies use VC

You can imagine a future where the SEC cracks down on token sales at the behest of the rich and politically connected.  Thus, some US projects might choose VC rounds over token sales.  In practice, SEC action would probably lead to even more companies fleeing the US and would just serve to further disadvantage Americans.

Even so, if this happens, this would likely boost the returns to this fund.



3.  Token market never takes off.

I put this one last, because in my view it is already taking off, though that momentum could end and the future is hard to predict.

Blockchain Capital is one of the preeminent VC firms in the space.  Therefore if blockchains takes off but token sales don’t, then this token should do well.  In general, I tend to believe that if blockchains take off then token sales will also take off, particularly because token sales are taking off already before blockchain apps.

However, you could also imagine scenarios (such as SEC action) where token sales fizzle out, but blockchains remain strong.



Concluding thought

This is only a token sale for non-US markets.  As the sale is limited to under 100 US accredited investors, I don’t think I’d have any chance to buy their tokens even if I wanted to.  So I have no skin in the game here.  As always, caveat emptor.



Disclaimer: None of this is financial advice, I’m not recommending that you do anything. If you want investment advice you should do more than just read a blog. I know nothing of your portfolio needs, etc.



Thanks to Alex Felix from Coinfund for some critical comments on a draft on this post.
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