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Author Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool  (Read 2035319 times)
jonnybravo0311
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July 05, 2014, 07:11:39 PM
 #9501

This may seem like a simplistic approach, but if you're getting a whole lot of work submitted after the pool says "drop everything", couldn't you mitigate that by setting the queue depth to 0 in cgminer on the S2?

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MineForeman.com
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July 05, 2014, 10:17:54 PM
 #9502

I have a question, and it may have already been answered and my google-fu is off.

I can think of a few ways a dishonest p2pool operator can 'cheat' users of the pool (charging fee's while saying your not etc...).  Has anyone thought or implemented ways to detect cheating?

Nel

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rav3n_pl
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July 05, 2014, 10:27:18 PM
 #9503

Only way is to change poll code and hide fee.
P2pool idea is to run own node and use it Smiley
Use others only as backup.

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Bulk-Neteller Ltd
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July 05, 2014, 10:36:47 PM
 #9504

where can i learn pool tricks, very essential.
MineForeman.com
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July 05, 2014, 10:43:29 PM
 #9505

Only way is to change poll code and hide fee.
P2pool idea is to run own node and use it Smiley
Use others only as backup.


Not everyone can/want's to run their own node.  It would be cool though if they could use someone else's but I was wondering if there is some way to prove that it is fair.

Neil

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sconklin321
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July 05, 2014, 11:03:04 PM
 #9506

Only way is to change poll code and hide fee.
P2pool idea is to run own node and use it Smiley
Use others only as backup.


Not everyone can/want's to run their own node.  It would be cool though if they could use someone else's but I was wondering if there is some way to prove that it is fair.

Neil

I don't know if there is anyway of proving any pool is really fair.  To that end, what would stop a pool op from saying 0 fee or a 1% fee and then taking all the profits.  In the end its all about what you feel comfortable with.  If, say you wanted to see the true node fee (barring them changing the coding behind p2pool) you can go to the node/fee and it is published there.  For example, the node I have setup, and will be returning to mining on once I get my two addresses into eligius's payout queue, is http://mine.njbtcmine.net:9332/fee.

FYI, that node is located in Newark, NJ if anyone is looking for a node to mine on.

Edit: Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the fee to P2Pool is in shares too, isn't it?  So you'd notice your estimated payout adversely effected if someone did edit the code to hide the fee and take 100%, or something stupid like that.
mdude77
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July 06, 2014, 01:35:28 AM
 #9507

At the moment my conclusion is a proxy isn't going to help getting S2s working with p2pool.

I believe the problem is the constant "drop EVERYTHING you are doing and restart" messages that p2pool sends every 30 seconds.  Then it rejects all the old work coming p2pool leading to large DOA.

My recommendations for p2pool to become more S2 friendly:

1 - Sending new work every 30 seconds is fine.  It's apparently not necessary to force the miner to restart "clean jobs" = true.  It also needs to gracefully accept work from prior job IDs for a period of time like other pools do.

2 - Start at a higher pseudo difficulty than 1.

3 - Allow a higher pseudo difficulty than 1000.

4 - Send the actual errors back for rejected work, instead of just "false".

If I understood python I'd take a stab at 2 through 4.  1 might be a big deal.

Here are 2 patches for p2pool that address point 2 and 3 from your list.

First a simple patch that allow higher than 1000 pseudo-difficulty.
https://github.com/jaketri/p2pool/commit/05b630f2c8f93b78093043b28c0c543fafa0a856

And another patch that add "--min-difficulty" parameter to p2pool. For my setup I use 256 as start pseudo difficulty.

https://github.com/jaketri/p2pool/commit/5f02f893490f2b9bfa48926184c4b1329c4d1554

Thanks, that's good.  Now why isn't it in the main code?

M

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mdude77
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July 06, 2014, 01:39:25 AM
 #9508

This may seem like a simplistic approach, but if you're getting a whole lot of work submitted after the pool says "drop everything", couldn't you mitigate that by setting the queue depth to 0 in cgminer on the S2?

Good idea.  I haven't tried that yet.  I think that's reachable via the api...

setconfig|queue,0

M

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mdude77
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July 06, 2014, 01:41:34 AM
 #9509

Does p2pool force the clean jobs when a share is found (should be 30 seconds due to share time)?  So wouldn't not forcing that, just result is lower node efficiency through more DOA's to the sharechain?  This would be why eligius doesn't need to force a restart everytime it sends new work, just every time a bitcoin block is found (7 to 10 minutes).  And if this is truly where the error, I could be wrong, but wouldn't that mean that you are hashing at the full hash rate, but it's just getting reported wrong??

I think your logic is correct.  Clean jobs has to be submitted when a new share is on the chain.

If the S2 was truly hashing at the full rate, at least one place would show it.  But every place shows it low: p2pool, the S2 web UI, and the S2 LCD.

M

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bryonp
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July 06, 2014, 04:25:47 AM
 #9510

Time for a BLOCK PARTY!!!!
nreal
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July 06, 2014, 07:00:49 AM
 #9511

What is the doa% with s2?
cathoderay
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July 06, 2014, 11:04:07 AM
 #9512

Here are 2 patches for p2pool that address point 2 and 3 from your list.

First a simple patch that allow higher than 1000 pseudo-difficulty.
https://github.com/jaketri/p2pool/commit/05b630f2c8f93b78093043b28c0c543fafa0a856

And another patch that add "--min-difficulty" parameter to p2pool. For my setup I use 256 as start pseudo difficulty.

https://github.com/jaketri/p2pool/commit/5f02f893490f2b9bfa48926184c4b1329c4d1554

Thanks, that's good.  Now why isn't it in the main code?

M

Because that would require some kind of participation from the developer....

Talking of which, it's great to see him bouncing ideas off the community in an effort to help cure these issues isn't it?......... Roll Eyes

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mdude77
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July 06, 2014, 11:11:43 AM
 #9513

Here are 2 patches for p2pool that address point 2 and 3 from your list.

First a simple patch that allow higher than 1000 pseudo-difficulty.
https://github.com/jaketri/p2pool/commit/05b630f2c8f93b78093043b28c0c543fafa0a856

And another patch that add "--min-difficulty" parameter to p2pool. For my setup I use 256 as start pseudo difficulty.

https://github.com/jaketri/p2pool/commit/5f02f893490f2b9bfa48926184c4b1329c4d1554

Thanks, that's good.  Now why isn't it in the main code?

M

Because that would require some kind of participation from the developer....

Talking of which, it's great to see him bouncing ideas off the community in an effort to help cure these issues isn't it?......... Roll Eyes

Good point.

Forks have their place.  However my concern is if there isn't one main fork, the average user won't know what to use.

M

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raskul
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July 06, 2014, 11:16:49 AM
 #9514

Yet another reason i like p2pool
I wouldn't imagine it possible to hide the fee is it?
In any case if the fee is hidden just don't use the node

EU:

eu.centralcavern.uk:9332/fee

Only way is to change poll code and hide fee.
P2pool idea is to run own node and use it Smiley
Use others only as backup.


Not everyone can/want's to run their own node.  It would be cool though if they could use someone else's but I was wondering if there is some way to prove that it is fair.

Neil

I don't know if there is anyway of proving any pool is really fair.  To that end, what would stop a pool op from saying 0 fee or a 1% fee and then taking all the profits.  In the end its all about what you feel comfortable with.  If, say you wanted to see the true node fee (barring them changing the coding behind p2pool) you can go to the node/fee and it is published there.  For example, the node I have setup, and will be returning to mining on once I get my two addresses into eligius's payout queue, is http://mine.njbtcmine.net:9332/fee.

FYI, that node is located in Newark, NJ if anyone is looking for a node to mine on.

Edit: Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the fee to P2Pool is in shares too, isn't it?  So you'd notice your estimated payout adversely effected if someone did edit the code to hide the fee and take 100%, or something stupid like that.

tips    1APp826DqjJBdsAeqpEstx6Q8hD4urac8a
mdude77
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July 06, 2014, 11:39:45 AM
 #9515

This may seem like a simplistic approach, but if you're getting a whole lot of work submitted after the pool says "drop everything", couldn't you mitigate that by setting the queue depth to 0 in cgminer on the S2?

Good idea.  I haven't tried that yet.  I think that's reachable via the api...

setconfig|queue,0

I just tried it.  No difference.  Still way too many rejects, because the Ant can't respond quick enough to job restarts.

I don't think p2pool can solve this without increasing the share time significantly.  The Ants will still get rejects, but since there won't be as many restarts, the ratio will be lower.

Ultimately I believe the problem is in Bitmain's hands.  (Or Kano, if he can rewrite the code to be more responsive.)

M

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nreal
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July 06, 2014, 02:31:38 PM
 #9516

What is the doa% with s2? on pool level its 13% now, so anything below 13 is just fine.
mdude77
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July 06, 2014, 03:26:54 PM
 #9517

What is the doa% with s2? on pool level its 13% now, so anything below 13 is just fine.

I believe it's much higher than that.

M

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nreal
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July 06, 2014, 03:51:51 PM
 #9518

What is the doa% with s2? on pool level its 13% now, so anything below 13 is just fine.

I believe it's much higher than that.

M

25% ?
Local dead on arrival: ~      =?
sconklin321
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July 06, 2014, 05:22:38 PM
 #9519

What is the doa% with s2? on pool level its 13% now, so anything below 13 is just fine.

I believe it's much higher than that.

M

25% ?
Local dead on arrival: ~      =?


I think the problem isn't just DOA.  From what I've read, something appears to be slowing them down all around since, I believe stated earlier in the thread, even the Ants are showing the lower hashrate, not just p2pool.
mdude77
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July 06, 2014, 08:28:32 PM
 #9520

What is the doa% with s2? on pool level its 13% now, so anything below 13 is just fine.

I believe it's much higher than that.

M

25% ?
Local dead on arrival: ~      =?


When I run it through my proxy, the Ants report in excess of 50% rejects.  I'm not sure that number is right, but I haven't double checked it to confirm.

I'm suspecting that p2pool isn't properly returning matching reject messages, so the Ants don't really know the amount of rejects.  I'm not 100% of this, as the stratum specs leave a lot to interpretation/figuring out on your own.

What I'm referring to is this.

There's a unique ID # that's passed with each message from the miner to the pool.  That number is incremented for each message.  Each share is a message.  So say the Ant sends message #122 and it's a share submission.  If p2pool rejects it, the ID it uses on the reject is its own internal counter, so it could be #155.  I'm not sure cgminer knows how to match that up.

My proxy takes care of matching those up, so the message the Ant gets back from the proxy (Relayed from the pool) is the same # of the share from the Ant, in the example above, #122.


M

EDIT: I was looking at the wrong thing.. the return message from p2pool matches the originated message.

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