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Author Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool  (Read 2034853 times)
KyrosKrane
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July 23, 2014, 11:24:25 AM
 #9761

Oh, believe me, I'm not complaining about the much better frequency of payouts! Smiley I'm just wondering at the sudden and abrupt change in the amount of the payout.  I've seen my payouts change over a multi-day period before, due the variance in finding shares with my relatively small 200GH or because I go through a period of downtime for a few hours. I've just never seen it drop by an order of magnitude in less than a day before unless I had completely turned off all my mining rigs.

Tips and donations: 1KyrosREGDkNLp1rMd9wfVwfkXYHTd6j5U  |  BTC P2Pool node: p2pool.kyros.info:9332
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windpath
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July 23, 2014, 12:23:20 PM
 #9762

Average pool rate has regularly been over 1 PH/s last couple days, and # of miners is up as well:


windpath
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July 23, 2014, 12:30:59 PM
 #9763

Bounty Refund - S2 & S3

The bounty I set up for forrestv to come up with a working fix for the Antminer S2 & S3 ends tomorrow with no sign of any work completed.

Fortunately Bitmain came through with the S3, and it is working as expected on p2pool, link below is 4x stock S3 hashing as expected:

http://minefast.coincadence.com/miner.php?id=19vXrwKGUhK4cCU8tA4kWZgbChcmh9a6qj

The S2 still has the same problems it had when the bounty was established.

If you donated to the bounty address please PM me your TX # and the address you would like your refund sent to. If you did not let me know when you donated I may ask you to sign a message from the sending address to prove your identity.

Thanks to those who contributed.

The next bounty will be open to all developers.

KyrosKrane
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July 23, 2014, 01:21:45 PM
 #9764

Average pool rate has regularly been over 1 PH/s last couple days, and # of miners is up as well:



Here's looking forward to tens of blocks per day! *overly-optimistic thumbs up*

Tips and donations: 1KyrosREGDkNLp1rMd9wfVwfkXYHTd6j5U  |  BTC P2Pool node: p2pool.kyros.info:9332
mdude77
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July 23, 2014, 01:49:56 PM
 #9765

Average pool rate has regularly been over 1 PH/s last couple days, and # of miners is up as well:



Here's looking forward to tens of blocks per day! *overly-optimistic thumbs up*

Careful what you ask for.  That'll put the pool rate around 10PH/s, and share difficulty will be about 33 million.

M

MMinerMonitor author, monitor/auto/schedule reboots/alerts/remote/MobileMiner for Ants and Spondoolies! Latest (5.2). MPoolMonitor author, monitor stats/workers for most pools, global BTC stats (current/nxt diff/USD val/hashrate/calc)! Latest (v4.2) 
Buyer beware of Bitmain hardware and services.
KyrosKrane
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July 23, 2014, 01:57:07 PM
 #9766

Average pool rate has regularly been over 1 PH/s last couple days, and # of miners is up as well:



Here's looking forward to tens of blocks per day! *overly-optimistic thumbs up*

Careful what you ask for.  That'll put the pool rate around 10PH/s, and share difficulty will be about 33 million.

M
Sheesh, fair point. OK, here's to ... multiple singles of blocks per day! ... yeah ... that doesn't sound nearly as inspiring, but hey, I'll take it.

Tips and donations: 1KyrosREGDkNLp1rMd9wfVwfkXYHTd6j5U  |  BTC P2Pool node: p2pool.kyros.info:9332
jonnybravo0311
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July 23, 2014, 02:49:59 PM
 #9767

Average pool rate has regularly been over 1 PH/s last couple days, and # of miners is up as well:



Here's looking forward to tens of blocks per day! *overly-optimistic thumbs up*

Careful what you ask for.  That'll put the pool rate around 10PH/s, and share difficulty will be about 33 million.

M
And we've come full circle on the inherent problem of p2pool - increased variance the higher the pool hashing rate becomes.  We're seeing it happening now with share difficulty between 3 and 4 million.  People are noticing not only fewer found shares, but also drops in expected payouts.

Oh, believe me, I'm not complaining about the much better frequency of payouts! Smiley I'm just wondering at the sudden and abrupt change in the amount of the payout.  I've seen my payouts change over a multi-day period before, due the variance in finding shares with my relatively small 200GH or because I go through a period of downtime for a few hours. I've just never seen it drop by an order of magnitude in less than a day before unless I had completely turned off all my mining rigs.
With the higher overall hash rate of the pool, each share you submit carries a lower weight.  Additionally because of the higher hash rate, the share difficultly goes up, meaning you submit fewer shares.  For example, let's assume a scenario where p2pool expects to find 1 block every 24 hours.  You have 1TH/s mining, and the pool has 500TH/s total.  If everything follows the expectations, you should earn just about 0.02902BTC every time a block is found.  Now, let's say the pool goes up to 1PH/s total.  Share difficulty adjusts to maintain the 1 share / 30 second rule.  Also share weights are adjusted.  Again, assuming everything is going to expectations, your expected payout per block drops by half because now p2pool expects to find 2 blocks a day.  So, now you'll see 0.01451BTC expected payout.  This still translates into your expected daily earnings to be right where they should at 0.02902BTC.

Hope this helps.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
mdude77
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July 23, 2014, 03:00:38 PM
 #9768

And we've come full circle on the inherent problem of p2pool - increased variance the higher the pool hashing rate becomes.  We're seeing it happening now with share difficulty between 3 and 4 million.  People are noticing not only fewer found shares, but also drops in expected payouts.

Depending on your hashrate, your variance might have actually decreased.  It's the small guys, like those with one S1 Ant, that are hurting.  I used to have two on my pool and they both bailed.

M

MMinerMonitor author, monitor/auto/schedule reboots/alerts/remote/MobileMiner for Ants and Spondoolies! Latest (5.2). MPoolMonitor author, monitor stats/workers for most pools, global BTC stats (current/nxt diff/USD val/hashrate/calc)! Latest (v4.2) 
Buyer beware of Bitmain hardware and services.
jonnybravo0311
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July 23, 2014, 03:12:18 PM
 #9769

And we've come full circle on the inherent problem of p2pool - increased variance the higher the pool hashing rate becomes.  We're seeing it happening now with share difficulty between 3 and 4 million.  People are noticing not only fewer found shares, but also drops in expected payouts.

Depending on your hashrate, your variance might have actually decreased.  It's the small guys, like those with one S1 Ant, that are hurting.  I used to have two on my pool and they both bailed.

M
I suppose I should have stated "increased variance in finding shares".  Regardless of your hash rate, the higher the difficulty, the fewer the shares you would expect to find.  Now, overall you might find your payout variance decreasing because the pool finds more blocks.

As you state, the guys with the low hash rate suffer the most, but that has always been the case here, and is what has prompted a ton of discussion throughout this thread: how to cater to the "little guys".  The definition of the "little guy" is a moving target, though Wink.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
windpath
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July 23, 2014, 03:12:35 PM
 #9770

As long as your expectations are accurate the payout will still be the same or better over time as compared to other pools (p2pool has been preforming well overall) - the difference is that your variance will be higher.

IMHO as a miner I'd like to have enough hash power to receive a payout from each block found.

The minimum estimated hash rate to have an expected payout in each block found has gone from ~40GH/s about a week ago to ~50+ GH/s today. Even at 50 GH/s you may skip a block or 2 along the way, but your still getting a payout in the majority of blocks.

3 Easy steps to estimate the low-end of hash rate to have an expected payout in each block:

1. Go to http://minefast.coincadence.com/p2pool-stats.php
2. Click on the "Active Miners" tab below the graph
3. Click on the table header "Est. Hash Rate" to sort by hash rate



You can further investigate by clicking on the dashboard icon and viewing the miner dashboard.

Keep in mind these are rough estimates of hash rate for each miner in the pool, and that the estimates are subject to variance/luck (if your estimated rate is higher then your actual you are currently lucky).

bitdigger2013
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July 23, 2014, 04:48:49 PM
 #9771

Just finished catching up on the S2 issue with p2pool and from what I read it seems this is still not resolved. That is too bad I would love to put the S2's on p2pool.
norgan
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July 24, 2014, 01:12:22 AM
 #9772

I am seeing payouts a little lower but more of them. lately I've been very happy with payouts from p2pool using around 240gh/s. Just echoing above comments that you should not panic because you are seeing lower expected payout, you will still see as much per day on average then you did before.

Miner, tech geek, operator of NorgzPool - Sydney Australia P2Pool Node creator of p2pool fancy front end

Tips: 1NorganBbymShTN2MMpfGzRYJF8mcPeXjv Exchange BTC locally in Australia or Donate to p2pool miners
windpath
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July 24, 2014, 01:05:29 PM
 #9773

Bounty Refund - S2 & S3

The bounty I set up for forrestv to come up with a working fix for the Antminer S2 & S3 ends tomorrow with no sign of any work completed.

Fortunately Bitmain came through with the S3, and it is working as expected on p2pool, link below is 4x stock S3 hashing as expected:

http://minefast.coincadence.com/miner.php?id=19vXrwKGUhK4cCU8tA4kWZgbChcmh9a6qj

The S2 still has the same problems it had when the bounty was established.

If you donated to the bounty address please PM me your TX # and the address you would like your refund sent to. If you did not let me know when you donated I may ask you to sign a message from the sending address to prove your identity.

Thanks to those who contributed.

The next bounty will be open to all developers.

The bounty has ended with no work submitted, refunds have been issued for those of you who I had contact with. If you donated and have not contacted me yet please do so ASAP so I can get your refund out to you.

Last night I spent some time with a miner on my node working on support over email - turns out he is mining with an S2 - I'm disappointed to say I had to suggest he switch to another pool.

Perhaps now that Bitmain has the S1 & S3s working with p2pool they will go back and revise the S2 firmware...


RoadStress
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July 24, 2014, 01:09:53 PM
 #9774

This may have been answered in the past, but I can't keep track of the whole thread so I will ask again.

I'm having 5.5Th/s mining on a p2pool node and my predicted payout is at 0.11. Someone else with 4Th/s at Eligius has a 0.11 payout per day. Eligius is giving me the average number while the p2pool is giving me the "live" payout taking into consideration other factors like luck? Thx.

iCEBREAKER is a troll! He and cypherdoc helped HashFast scam 50 Million $ from its customers !
H/w Hosting Directory & Reputation - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622998.0
windpath
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July 24, 2014, 01:18:25 PM
 #9775

This may have been answered in the past, but I can't keep track of the whole thread so I will ask again.

I'm having 5.5Th/s mining on a p2pool node and my predicted payout is at 0.11. Someone else with 4Th/s at Eligius has a 0.11 payout per day. Eligius is giving me the average number while the p2pool is giving me the "live" payout taking into consideration other factors like luck? Thx.

p2pool and Eligius use 2 completely different payout systems:

Eligius: Capped PPS with Recent Backpay (paid from payout queen)
p2pool: PPLNS (Pay Per Last N Shares) (paid directly from block generation TX)

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Comparison_of_mining_pools

p2pool does not predict a payout, it tells you exactly what your payout would be if a block were found "now".

For p2pool your payout is directly related to the number of active shares you have in the p2pool share chain when a block is found.

The share chain lasts ~3 days, so a share (a representation of a payout amount) is valid for any blocks found in the ~3 days after you find the share.

Finding shares is subject to luck/variance just like finding blocks is.

Edit: If you find your miner in the active miners tab at the link below you can see your estimated effective hash rate which will help you to get an idea of your luck compared with your actual hash rate:

http://minefast.coincadence.com/p2pool-stats.php


RoadStress
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July 24, 2014, 03:30:57 PM
 #9776

Edit: If you find your miner in the active miners tab at the link below you can see your estimated effective hash rate which will help you to get an idea of your luck compared with your actual hash rate:

http://minefast.coincadence.com/p2pool-stats.php

Not sure I get this part. Let's say p2pool doesn't find a block for 7 straight days (I hope I wont jinx it). My estimated effective hashrate goes very very down and I will get my share of the 25 BTC when a block is found based on the tiny effective hashrate right?

iCEBREAKER is a troll! He and cypherdoc helped HashFast scam 50 Million $ from its customers !
H/w Hosting Directory & Reputation - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622998.0
windpath
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July 24, 2014, 05:27:35 PM
 #9777

Edit: If you find your miner in the active miners tab at the link below you can see your estimated effective hash rate which will help you to get an idea of your luck compared with your actual hash rate:

http://minefast.coincadence.com/p2pool-stats.php

Not sure I get this part. Let's say p2pool doesn't find a block for 7 straight days (I hope I wont jinx it). My estimated effective hashrate goes very very down and I will get my share of the 25 BTC when a block is found based on the tiny effective hashrate right?

Blocks found by p2pool have no effect on this.

It is relative to your found shares active in the p2pool share chain:

If you are lucky in finding shares your estimated hash rate will be higher.
If you are unlucky in finding shares your estimated hash rate will lower.


bryonp
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July 24, 2014, 05:30:14 PM
 #9778

Hey guys.... Curious,
As I am sure we are all seeing,
the hash rate keeps going up and down like a yo-yo.

My question, does this effect our block chances?

Is it bad , good , or indifferent?
jonnybravo0311
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July 24, 2014, 06:41:07 PM
 #9779

Hey guys.... Curious,
As I am sure we are all seeing,
the hash rate keeps going up and down like a yo-yo.

My question, does this effect our block chances?

Is it bad , good , or indifferent?

As the hash rate goes up, the expected time to block goes down.  As the hash rate goes down, the expected time to block goes up.  The chances of finding a block remains a constant - every hash has a chance to find one.

Edit: If you find your miner in the active miners tab at the link below you can see your estimated effective hash rate which will help you to get an idea of your luck compared with your actual hash rate:

http://minefast.coincadence.com/p2pool-stats.php

Not sure I get this part. Let's say p2pool doesn't find a block for 7 straight days (I hope I wont jinx it). My estimated effective hashrate goes very very down and I will get my share of the 25 BTC when a block is found based on the tiny effective hashrate right?
Windpath's calculation of effective hash rate is based upon the number of shares on the chain that are yours.  So, assuming you are finding an average number of shares, your effective hash rate would remain pretty constant, and close to your actual value.  When that block is found, you receive the reward based upon the number of shares you've got on the chain.  The block pays the previous 8640 shares (approximately 3 days worth).  So, if a block is found in 7 days, or in 7 seconds, your payout is determined by how many of the 8640 shares are yours.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
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July 24, 2014, 10:53:11 PM
 #9780

Higher p2pool hash rate will decrease variance for larger miners since they'll always have shares & blocks will come more often.  It'll increase variance for small miners, I really have no clue what that is nowadays, maybe 100ghash?... because sometimes you will have no shares, even if blocks are being found.

I always liked to gamble though, anyway.

Dacentec, best deals for US dedicated servers. They regularly restock $20-$25 Opterons with 8-16GB RAM & 2x1-2TB HDD's (ofc, usually lots of other good stuff to choose from).  I did a Serverbear benchmark of one of my $20/mo Opteron (June last year), it's here.  Have had about a half dozen different servers with Dacentec, & none have failed to sustain at least 40MB/s (burst higher). My favorite is a 12-month rent-to-own ZT Systems 2XL5520 16GB 2x2TB SATA for $40/month (got lucky with the 'off-brand', haven't seen a RTO 2xL5520 for under $50/mo since -- at least for monthly contracts).  wholesaleinternet.com has some ancient 2-core intel CPUs @ $10/mo sometimes (I got an Intel Core 2 6300 @ 1.86GHz, with a 250GB HDD with 46000 hours on it, LOL. $20 @ Dacentec is much better, if you can grab one). joesdatacenter.com (same location as Wholesale Internet) also occasionally has specials (or if you don't want to wait, it has an AMD Opteron 170 @ $16/mo).
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