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Author Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool  (Read 2591571 times)
contactlight
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August 04, 2014, 02:09:41 AM
 #9841

I have been mining on P2Pool lately and even though I had great payouts initially, I haven't been finding any shares lately.

I have two Antminer S3s and I have been thinking if it is a bad idea to have both of them mine to the same address. Wouldn't that make the P2Pool set a higher difficulty for both of them? Should I be mining to different addresses with them?

The pseudoshare will be higher, yes.  The shares that count will be the same regardless.

M

So the actual share difficulty is actually not based on the hashrate of the miner. Only the psuedoshare difficulty depends on the hashrate. Is that correct?

Are psuedoshares valued at all? Because even though my node says approximately 6 hours to a share, I don't get any shares even when I run my miner for over a day.

Pseudoshares only make your hashrate look better on the graph.  The actual share chain difficulty is based upon the entire hashrate of the pool.  Keep in mind luck (aka variance) plays a role here.  When it says approx 6 hours, that's on average.  You'll have some that are less, some that are more, but your luck has to be pretty bad to not get one within 24 hours.

I've got two folks on my node that look like they're using two S3s a piece.  They're chugging right along with shares, so S3s seem to be working well.

M



I don't think my miners can be this unlucky, though. No shares in this long might indicate a problem.

I remember a couple of weeks ago, when I was mining on the same node with the same hardware, I was getting shares constantly. Sure, variance but this seems too much.

I am doing stratum+TCP, should I try http? My DOA is about 3% so no problems there. My latency is no more than 80ms as well.
There are several different types of Bitcoin clients. The most secure are full nodes like Bitcoin Core, which will follow the rules of the network no matter what miners do. Even if every miner decided to create 1000 bitcoins per block, full nodes would stick to the rules and reject those blocks.
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bryonp
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August 04, 2014, 02:26:33 AM
 #9842

Do you all find a huge savings in electrical power when using your new S3's?
I run 4th
16 s-1's and 1 S-2... my electric bill is around 1250.00...

My income stands approx 2400.00 before electric???

Wondering if I should sell off my coin and buy s-3's or just hold out???

Anyone's input is so welcome...
Thanks
DUDES......

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August 04, 2014, 02:45:47 AM
 #9843

I have been mining on P2Pool lately and even though I had great payouts initially, I haven't been finding any shares lately.

I have two Antminer S3s and I have been thinking if it is a bad idea to have both of them mine to the same address. Wouldn't that make the P2Pool set a higher difficulty for both of them? Should I be mining to different addresses with them?

The pseudoshare will be higher, yes.  The shares that count will be the same regardless.

M

So the actual share difficulty is actually not based on the hashrate of the miner. Only the psuedoshare difficulty depends on the hashrate. Is that correct?

Are psuedoshares valued at all? Because even though my node says approximately 6 hours to a share, I don't get any shares even when I run my miner for over a day.

Pseudoshares only make your hashrate look better on the graph.  The actual share chain difficulty is based upon the entire hashrate of the pool.  Keep in mind luck (aka variance) plays a role here.  When it says approx 6 hours, that's on average.  You'll have some that are less, some that are more, but your luck has to be pretty bad to not get one within 24 hours.

I've got two folks on my node that look like they're using two S3s a piece.  They're chugging right along with shares, so S3s seem to be working well.

M



I don't think my miners can be this unlucky, though. No shares in this long might indicate a problem.

I remember a couple of weeks ago, when I was mining on the same node with the same hardware, I was getting shares constantly. Sure, variance but this seems too much.

I am doing stratum+TCP, should I try http? My DOA is about 3% so no problems there. My latency is no more than 80ms as well.

The big difference from a couple weeks ago, is the hashrate and difficulty has gone up, I'd even estimate that it almost double over the past month.  That could have something to do with it.  I've also heard of pools taking as long as almost 7x expected to find a block.  Considering the sharechain mimics the blockchain, I'd say the same variance could easily be expected here.  It should happen too often, but it's definitely possible.

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August 04, 2014, 02:49:47 AM
 #9844

Do you all find a huge savings in electrical power when using your new S3's?
I run 4th
16 s-1's and 1 S-2... my electric bill is around 1250.00...

My income stands approx 2400.00 before electric???

Wondering if I should sell off my coin and buy s-3's or just hold out???

Anyone's input is so welcome...
Thanks
DUDES......
Sounds like you should scale back your operation if it is not really paying expenses.

I currently have 2 rockminers (R-box) on order to replace my blade. They will use the same power foot-print (about 80W (Hash-rate should go from 10Gh/s to 64Gh/s)). I was really hoping the blade would last a year... (not 5 months)

You may want to try the "pencil mod" on the S1's to reduce their power usage as well.

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August 04, 2014, 02:56:20 AM
 #9845

Do you all find a huge savings in electrical power when using your new S3's?
I run 4th
16 s-1's and 1 S-2... my electric bill is around 1250.00...

My income stands approx 2400.00 before electric???

Wondering if I should sell off my coin and buy s-3's or just hold out???

Anyone's input is so welcome...
Thanks
DUDES......
Sounds like you should scale back your operation if it is not really paying expenses.

I currently have 2 rockminers (R-box) on order to replace my blade. They will use the same power foot-print (about 80W (Hash-rate should go from 10Gh/s to 64Gh/s)). I was really hoping the blade would last a year... (not 5 months)

You may want to try the "pencil mod" on the S1's to reduce their power usage as well.


Well I pay the electric... then make about 1000.00 to 1200.00 so I make money and dont loose......
but its a lot of work to make the money....even though I love the challenge.
Its not a fortune.......

Also since the hashing has doubled its not as profitable as it was last month...

Thanks for your input would still love to hear how others are maikng out over all and
with these S-3's??

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August 04, 2014, 01:15:14 PM
Last edit: August 04, 2014, 01:38:18 PM by windpath
 #9846

found block: 313941

http://minefast.coincadence.com/p2pool-stats.php
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August 04, 2014, 02:03:34 PM
 #9847

You personally found that block, or you're just announcing that the block was found?  If it was you, congrats on finding a block Smiley

To everyone who has a node that doesn't show this block, it's because of the way the front end gets its stats.  Whenever an orphaned and/or dead share solves the BTC block, your node will not report the block.  Why?  Because the front end gets its information from the shares on the chain.  Since the orphaned/dead share never made it to the chain, it can't report the found block.

If you want to get recent blocks found by P2Pool, you can change your front end's code to make a call to the following: https://blockchain.info/blocks/P2Pool?format=json

This will return something like the following:
Code:
{
"blocks" : [
{
"height" : 313941,
"hash" : "0000000000000000366aaafabda75d7fc0a184b4177a8769dc258e97262cd09b",
"time" : 1407153595,
"main_chain" : true
},

{
"height" : 313846,
"hash" : "00000000000000000d086863f8131bc9fdd99689577b06829f8a2e6c171174b5",
"time" : 1407090619,
"main_chain" : true
},

{
"height" : 313791,
"hash" : "0000000000000000183861a2afd974f94116dd533f5d6a0b5d700fbb53e22960",
"time" : 1407056128,
"main_chain" : true
},

{
"height" : 313621,
"hash" : "00000000000000002804cd7f5fea7980524c0cf9dd11d3dd89e413bbd4b02a3f",
"time" : 1406975059,
"main_chain" : true
},

{
"height" : 313578,
"hash" : "000000000000000023a88888e16b1d3bade12cb9e4d47901d0d9e141b291307c",
"time" : 1406949661,
"main_chain" : true
},

{
"height" : 313449,
"hash" : "00000000000000002dc6bc02fbfaa506f6c8e8f80dcf97b2e9961ba28d7ca6da",
"time" : 1406878816,
"main_chain" : true
}
]
}

Hope this helps.

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August 04, 2014, 02:10:55 PM
 #9848

Just announcing it, looks like it came from a stale, not shown in standard front end...
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August 04, 2014, 03:51:49 PM
 #9849

While this can be attributed to variance, I find it hard to believe that it is just variance.

When mining at Eligius with my S3s, I can easily get shares as good as 260 million within a day while I can only get shares around 4 million if I am on P2Pool. Something is wrong here.
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August 04, 2014, 04:05:51 PM
 #9850

While this can be attributed to variance, I find it hard to believe that it is just variance.

When mining at Eligius with my S3s, I can easily get shares as good as 260 million within a day while I can only get shares around 4 million if I am on P2Pool. Something is wrong here.
I know you want to think it's something nefarious, or a hardware problem, or anything else.  Unfortunately, it's simply variance.  You're having a string of crap luck.  That's all.  There's nothing wrong here.

As you've seen, the miners hash away on both p2pool and Eligius.  You even reported that a few weeks back on exactly the same hardware you were finding shares.  Since that time, the share difficulty has gone up to an average of 4.5M, the pool's total hash rate has increased and the BTC network adjusted to a new difficulty.

If you truly feel that p2pool is not the correct fit for you, then by all means hash on Eligius.  As much as I hate to see people abandon p2pool, the fact is that you're still mining and supporting BTC no matter where you point your miners -- as long as they don't get pointed to The Pool That Shall Not Be Named Tongue

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
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August 04, 2014, 06:05:48 PM
 #9851

I have had shares as big as 632 786 234 on p2pool, but generally get lesser ones. Shares have become less frequent and payouts lower as a result. Still here though and planning to add some more hardware soon Smiley

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August 04, 2014, 08:15:43 PM
 #9852

How much variance is normal? I bought 2 S3s. One I have rented out and the other is pointed to p2pool. In the 48hrs I've had them they've generated 1 share. Is that normal?

One has been pointed at p2pool the entire time, 1 about half of the time. When both were pointed in p2pool it estimated 1 share every 5.5 hrs. With 1 currently pointed there its estimating 1 share every 11 hrs. So at a minimum I would have expected 2 per day - total of 4. For as long as I had the 2nd pointed at p2pool I would have expected 6 or more total. If I had say 3 or 4 shares I'd put it down to normal variance but 1 seems really low.
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August 04, 2014, 09:37:56 PM
 #9853

I wrote an FAQ on setting P2Pools share difficulty under the section "Can I set my own share difficulty?":

http://xpool.net/faq.html


Thought it might help some people....

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August 04, 2014, 09:41:52 PM
 #9854

How much variance is normal? I bought 2 S3s. One I have rented out and the other is pointed to p2pool. In the 48hrs I've had them they've generated 1 share. Is that normal?

One has been pointed at p2pool the entire time, 1 about half of the time. When both were pointed in p2pool it estimated 1 share every 5.5 hrs. With 1 currently pointed there its estimating 1 share every 11 hrs. So at a minimum I would have expected 2 per day - total of 4. For as long as I had the 2nd pointed at p2pool I would have expected 6 or more total. If I had say 3 or 4 shares I'd put it down to normal variance but 1 seems really low.
Variance can be a bear.  Over the past 24 hours we've had a total of 10 shares.  All of them were in hours 8-22, with no shares in the past 8 hours.  We're running a hashrate almost 20x your S3, so we should in theory expect a share on average in just over an hour.  sometimes we'll get a few in the span of an hour or two, then none for a while.
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August 04, 2014, 09:57:23 PM
 #9855

How much variance is normal? I bought 2 S3s. One I have rented out and the other is pointed to p2pool. In the 48hrs I've had them they've generated 1 share. Is that normal?

One has been pointed at p2pool the entire time, 1 about half of the time. When both were pointed in p2pool it estimated 1 share every 5.5 hrs. With 1 currently pointed there its estimating 1 share every 11 hrs. So at a minimum I would have expected 2 per day - total of 4. For as long as I had the 2nd pointed at p2pool I would have expected 6 or more total. If I had say 3 or 4 shares I'd put it down to normal variance but 1 seems really low.
The problem is the expectation.  Remember, this is all completely luck-based.  The equations and formulas and everything else out there that provides you with things like "expected time to block" or "expected time to share" are nothing more than educated guesses based upon probability.  You could go for days without finding a single share, or you could find 100 shares in a day.  For example, I had an S1 mining on p2pool.  That S1 had been powered on for about 2 weeks and it found a block.  According to every calculator out there, it should have taken over 5 YEARS to find that block, yet I found it in about two weeks.

The thing is, you tend to notice this a heck of a lot more on p2pool than you do on any other pool.  Why?  Well, first off, because share difficulty is over 4M.  Secondly, because most every p2pool UI prominently displays numbers like "Expected time to share".  If you were mining a coin that had an extremely low difficulty and were finding thousands of shares a day, you would barely notice a swing of a few hundred shares up or down.  That's what mining on another pool is like.  You're far more *likely* to find a bunch of shares with a difficulty of 1024 than you are shares at 4M.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
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August 04, 2014, 10:32:29 PM
 #9856

I wrote an FAQ on setting P2Pools share difficulty under the section "Can I set my own share difficulty?":

http://xpool.net/faq.html


Thought it might help some people....
I've read through your FAQ.  Nice writeup.  I do have a few comments/questions for you.

1) You state that setting your difficulty to something silly low (like /0 for example) will have an effect on your payout.  I do not believe this to be true.  A submitted share from your miner means absolutely nothing to p2pool unless it is above the threshold difficulty, which currently sits over 4,000,000.  You can set your difficulty to /0 or /10 or /1000000 and it won't mean a thing.  Setting it to a value over 4,000,000 however, will have an effect.  I made a post regarding this a few pages back.
2) You are absolutely correct about the node's hash rate determining the difficulty for the miners, and if you're mining on a node where there is a very large discrepancy between you and the node's hash rate, you'll find shares less often; however, when you do find that share it will be worth more.
3) Where did you get the 0.00000116 value for setting pseudo-share?  I've seen that number passed around, especially for scrypt mining, and I forget the origin.  Also, is that number relevant to BTC, and if not, what is?  I do remember reading a thread about setting difficulty, but damned if I can find it now.

Thanks.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
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August 04, 2014, 11:03:27 PM
Last edit: August 04, 2014, 11:18:08 PM by squashpile
 #9857

On number 2 Grin
I have been wondering about this. This isn't really about shares, but diff with high hashrate miners question. When Mr 80TH's shows up on pool it's just killing everyone else it seems. Default diff is 999 or so. Based on what you're saying that is not actually correct because if you get a share it's worth more.
Currently one address around 12TH/s and you just see all the estimated earnings going down for smaller miners.
I think I read about custom changes to set diff per address. I really need to check into this. I guess the only other thing you can do is maybe suggest manual diff for high hashrate miners?

So I guess just stick it out and hope to get a share even if you're getting trounced.
(I just read some of the previous posts. Those snuck in on me. Makes more sense now)


O and thanks for all the info jbravo!
I wrote an FAQ on setting P2Pools share difficulty under the section "Can I set my own share difficulty?":

http://xpool.net/faq.html


Thought it might help some people....
I've read through your FAQ.  Nice writeup.  I do have a few comments/questions for you.

1) You state that setting your difficulty to something silly low (like /0 for example) will have an effect on your payout.  I do not believe this to be true.  A submitted share from your miner means absolutely nothing to p2pool unless it is above the threshold difficulty, which currently sits over 4,000,000.  You can set your difficulty to /0 or /10 or /1000000 and it won't mean a thing.  Setting it to a value over 4,000,000 however, will have an effect.  I made a post regarding this a few pages back.
2) You are absolutely correct about the node's hash rate determining the difficulty for the miners, and if you're mining on a node where there is a very large discrepancy between you and the node's hash rate, you'll find shares less often; however, when you do find that share it will be worth more.
3) Where did you get the 0.00000116 value for setting pseudo-share?  I've seen that number passed around, especially for scrypt mining, and I forget the origin.  Also, is that number relevant to BTC, and if not, what is?  I do remember reading a thread about setting difficulty, but damned if I can find it now.

Thanks.

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August 04, 2014, 11:20:30 PM
 #9858

I wrote an FAQ on setting P2Pools share difficulty under the section "Can I set my own share difficulty?":

http://xpool.net/faq.html


Thought it might help some people....
I've read through your FAQ.  Nice writeup.  I do have a few comments/questions for you.

1) You state that setting your difficulty to something silly low (like /0 for example) will have an effect on your payout.  I do not believe this to be true.  A submitted share from your miner means absolutely nothing to p2pool unless it is above the threshold difficulty, which currently sits over 4,000,000.  You can set your difficulty to /0 or /10 or /1000000 and it won't mean a thing.  Setting it to a value over 4,000,000 however, will have an effect.  I made a post regarding this a few pages back.
2) You are absolutely correct about the node's hash rate determining the difficulty for the miners, and if you're mining on a node where there is a very large discrepancy between you and the node's hash rate, you'll find shares less often; however, when you do find that share it will be worth more.
3) Where did you get the 0.00000116 value for setting pseudo-share?  I've seen that number passed around, especially for scrypt mining, and I forget the origin.  Also, is that number relevant to BTC, and if not, what is?  I do remember reading a thread about setting difficulty, but damned if I can find it now.

Thanks.

The concepts are the same but perhaps I should have posted that it is written with primarily scrypt miners in mind Undecided

So, yea the "low setting" caution statement is for coins that could incur large fees when sent due to low payout amounts (dust) to smaller miners. I do believe that the /0 setting overrides the minimum "dust" payout code written into p2pool so you might want to double check on that. Don't remember if I verified from reviewing the code but I'm relatively sure that's how it works....thinking about it though the minimum p2pool share difficulty is too high on BTC to matter...

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August 04, 2014, 11:28:36 PM
 #9859

On number 2 Grin
I have been wondering about this. This isn't really about shares, but diff with high hashrate miners question. When Mr 80TH's shows up on pool it's just killing everyone else it seems. Default diff is 999 or so. Based on what you're saying that is not actually correct because if you get a share it's worth more.
Currently one address around 12TH/s and you just see all the estimated earnings going down for smaller miners.

Have your smaller miners use /0 or whatever you think is appropriate so their share diff is not raised from the larger ones. On my front end I show the miners share diff and expected time to share by address so they can adjust it as necessary.

This is if you use a public node...if you have your own it really shouldn't matter.

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August 04, 2014, 11:30:53 PM
 #9860

I'll try this on an S3. I know Bitmain has their recs ('BTC address/256+256' or 'BTC address+256'.) for S3 P2Pool mining. Maybe I should give it a shot. I have been sticking with just payout address so far.

On number 2 Grin
I have been wondering about this. This isn't really about shares, but diff with high hashrate miners question. When Mr 80TH's shows up on pool it's just killing everyone else it seems. Default diff is 999 or so. Based on what you're saying that is not actually correct because if you get a share it's worth more.
Currently one address around 12TH/s and you just see all the estimated earnings going down for smaller miners.

Have your smaller miners use /0 or whatever you think is appropriate so their share diff is not raised from the larger ones.

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