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Author Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool  (Read 2033437 times)
phillipsjk
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August 04, 2014, 02:49:47 AM
 #9861

Do you all find a huge savings in electrical power when using your new S3's?
I run 4th
16 s-1's and 1 S-2... my electric bill is around 1250.00...

My income stands approx 2400.00 before electric???

Wondering if I should sell off my coin and buy s-3's or just hold out???

Anyone's input is so welcome...
Thanks
DUDES......
Sounds like you should scale back your operation if it is not really paying expenses.

I currently have 2 rockminers (R-box) on order to replace my blade. They will use the same power foot-print (about 80W (Hash-rate should go from 10Gh/s to 64Gh/s)). I was really hoping the blade would last a year... (not 5 months)

You may want to try the "pencil mod" on the S1's to reduce their power usage as well.

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bryonp
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August 04, 2014, 02:56:20 AM
 #9862

Do you all find a huge savings in electrical power when using your new S3's?
I run 4th
16 s-1's and 1 S-2... my electric bill is around 1250.00...

My income stands approx 2400.00 before electric???

Wondering if I should sell off my coin and buy s-3's or just hold out???

Anyone's input is so welcome...
Thanks
DUDES......
Sounds like you should scale back your operation if it is not really paying expenses.

I currently have 2 rockminers (R-box) on order to replace my blade. They will use the same power foot-print (about 80W (Hash-rate should go from 10Gh/s to 64Gh/s)). I was really hoping the blade would last a year... (not 5 months)

You may want to try the "pencil mod" on the S1's to reduce their power usage as well.


Well I pay the electric... then make about 1000.00 to 1200.00 so I make money and dont loose......
but its a lot of work to make the money....even though I love the challenge.
Its not a fortune.......

Also since the hashing has doubled its not as profitable as it was last month...

Thanks for your input would still love to hear how others are maikng out over all and
with these S-3's??

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August 04, 2014, 01:15:14 PM
 #9863

found block: 313941

http://minefast.coincadence.com/p2pool-stats.php

jonnybravo0311
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August 04, 2014, 02:03:34 PM
 #9864

You personally found that block, or you're just announcing that the block was found?  If it was you, congrats on finding a block Smiley

To everyone who has a node that doesn't show this block, it's because of the way the front end gets its stats.  Whenever an orphaned and/or dead share solves the BTC block, your node will not report the block.  Why?  Because the front end gets its information from the shares on the chain.  Since the orphaned/dead share never made it to the chain, it can't report the found block.

If you want to get recent blocks found by P2Pool, you can change your front end's code to make a call to the following: https://blockchain.info/blocks/P2Pool?format=json

This will return something like the following:
Code:
{
"blocks" : [
{
"height" : 313941,
"hash" : "0000000000000000366aaafabda75d7fc0a184b4177a8769dc258e97262cd09b",
"time" : 1407153595,
"main_chain" : true
},

{
"height" : 313846,
"hash" : "00000000000000000d086863f8131bc9fdd99689577b06829f8a2e6c171174b5",
"time" : 1407090619,
"main_chain" : true
},

{
"height" : 313791,
"hash" : "0000000000000000183861a2afd974f94116dd533f5d6a0b5d700fbb53e22960",
"time" : 1407056128,
"main_chain" : true
},

{
"height" : 313621,
"hash" : "00000000000000002804cd7f5fea7980524c0cf9dd11d3dd89e413bbd4b02a3f",
"time" : 1406975059,
"main_chain" : true
},

{
"height" : 313578,
"hash" : "000000000000000023a88888e16b1d3bade12cb9e4d47901d0d9e141b291307c",
"time" : 1406949661,
"main_chain" : true
},

{
"height" : 313449,
"hash" : "00000000000000002dc6bc02fbfaa506f6c8e8f80dcf97b2e9961ba28d7ca6da",
"time" : 1406878816,
"main_chain" : true
}
]
}

Hope this helps.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
windpath
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August 04, 2014, 02:10:55 PM
 #9865

Just announcing it, looks like it came from a stale, not shown in standard front end...

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August 04, 2014, 03:51:49 PM
 #9866

While this can be attributed to variance, I find it hard to believe that it is just variance.

When mining at Eligius with my S3s, I can easily get shares as good as 260 million within a day while I can only get shares around 4 million if I am on P2Pool. Something is wrong here.
jonnybravo0311
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August 04, 2014, 04:05:51 PM
 #9867

While this can be attributed to variance, I find it hard to believe that it is just variance.

When mining at Eligius with my S3s, I can easily get shares as good as 260 million within a day while I can only get shares around 4 million if I am on P2Pool. Something is wrong here.
I know you want to think it's something nefarious, or a hardware problem, or anything else.  Unfortunately, it's simply variance.  You're having a string of crap luck.  That's all.  There's nothing wrong here.

As you've seen, the miners hash away on both p2pool and Eligius.  You even reported that a few weeks back on exactly the same hardware you were finding shares.  Since that time, the share difficulty has gone up to an average of 4.5M, the pool's total hash rate has increased and the BTC network adjusted to a new difficulty.

If you truly feel that p2pool is not the correct fit for you, then by all means hash on Eligius.  As much as I hate to see people abandon p2pool, the fact is that you're still mining and supporting BTC no matter where you point your miners -- as long as they don't get pointed to The Pool That Shall Not Be Named Tongue

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
ceslick
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August 04, 2014, 06:05:48 PM
 #9868

I have had shares as big as 632 786 234 on p2pool, but generally get lesser ones. Shares have become less frequent and payouts lower as a result. Still here though and planning to add some more hardware soon Smiley

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NZ Based BTC P2Pool: http://www.integratedideas.net/p2pool-btc/  -  NZ Based DOGE P2Pool: http://www.integratedideas.net/p2pool-doge/
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tf315
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August 04, 2014, 08:15:43 PM
 #9869

How much variance is normal? I bought 2 S3s. One I have rented out and the other is pointed to p2pool. In the 48hrs I've had them they've generated 1 share. Is that normal?

One has been pointed at p2pool the entire time, 1 about half of the time. When both were pointed in p2pool it estimated 1 share every 5.5 hrs. With 1 currently pointed there its estimating 1 share every 11 hrs. So at a minimum I would have expected 2 per day - total of 4. For as long as I had the 2nd pointed at p2pool I would have expected 6 or more total. If I had say 3 or 4 shares I'd put it down to normal variance but 1 seems really low.
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August 04, 2014, 09:37:56 PM
 #9870

I wrote an FAQ on setting P2Pools share difficulty under the section "Can I set my own share difficulty?":

http://xpool.net/faq.html


Thought it might help some people....

kgb2mining
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August 04, 2014, 09:41:52 PM
 #9871

How much variance is normal? I bought 2 S3s. One I have rented out and the other is pointed to p2pool. In the 48hrs I've had them they've generated 1 share. Is that normal?

One has been pointed at p2pool the entire time, 1 about half of the time. When both were pointed in p2pool it estimated 1 share every 5.5 hrs. With 1 currently pointed there its estimating 1 share every 11 hrs. So at a minimum I would have expected 2 per day - total of 4. For as long as I had the 2nd pointed at p2pool I would have expected 6 or more total. If I had say 3 or 4 shares I'd put it down to normal variance but 1 seems really low.
Variance can be a bear.  Over the past 24 hours we've had a total of 10 shares.  All of them were in hours 8-22, with no shares in the past 8 hours.  We're running a hashrate almost 20x your S3, so we should in theory expect a share on average in just over an hour.  sometimes we'll get a few in the span of an hour or two, then none for a while.
jonnybravo0311
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August 04, 2014, 09:57:23 PM
 #9872

How much variance is normal? I bought 2 S3s. One I have rented out and the other is pointed to p2pool. In the 48hrs I've had them they've generated 1 share. Is that normal?

One has been pointed at p2pool the entire time, 1 about half of the time. When both were pointed in p2pool it estimated 1 share every 5.5 hrs. With 1 currently pointed there its estimating 1 share every 11 hrs. So at a minimum I would have expected 2 per day - total of 4. For as long as I had the 2nd pointed at p2pool I would have expected 6 or more total. If I had say 3 or 4 shares I'd put it down to normal variance but 1 seems really low.
The problem is the expectation.  Remember, this is all completely luck-based.  The equations and formulas and everything else out there that provides you with things like "expected time to block" or "expected time to share" are nothing more than educated guesses based upon probability.  You could go for days without finding a single share, or you could find 100 shares in a day.  For example, I had an S1 mining on p2pool.  That S1 had been powered on for about 2 weeks and it found a block.  According to every calculator out there, it should have taken over 5 YEARS to find that block, yet I found it in about two weeks.

The thing is, you tend to notice this a heck of a lot more on p2pool than you do on any other pool.  Why?  Well, first off, because share difficulty is over 4M.  Secondly, because most every p2pool UI prominently displays numbers like "Expected time to share".  If you were mining a coin that had an extremely low difficulty and were finding thousands of shares a day, you would barely notice a swing of a few hundred shares up or down.  That's what mining on another pool is like.  You're far more *likely* to find a bunch of shares with a difficulty of 1024 than you are shares at 4M.

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jonnybravo0311
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August 04, 2014, 10:32:29 PM
 #9873

I wrote an FAQ on setting P2Pools share difficulty under the section "Can I set my own share difficulty?":

http://xpool.net/faq.html


Thought it might help some people....
I've read through your FAQ.  Nice writeup.  I do have a few comments/questions for you.

1) You state that setting your difficulty to something silly low (like /0 for example) will have an effect on your payout.  I do not believe this to be true.  A submitted share from your miner means absolutely nothing to p2pool unless it is above the threshold difficulty, which currently sits over 4,000,000.  You can set your difficulty to /0 or /10 or /1000000 and it won't mean a thing.  Setting it to a value over 4,000,000 however, will have an effect.  I made a post regarding this a few pages back.
2) You are absolutely correct about the node's hash rate determining the difficulty for the miners, and if you're mining on a node where there is a very large discrepancy between you and the node's hash rate, you'll find shares less often; however, when you do find that share it will be worth more.
3) Where did you get the 0.00000116 value for setting pseudo-share?  I've seen that number passed around, especially for scrypt mining, and I forget the origin.  Also, is that number relevant to BTC, and if not, what is?  I do remember reading a thread about setting difficulty, but damned if I can find it now.

Thanks.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
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August 04, 2014, 11:03:27 PM
 #9874

On number 2 Grin
I have been wondering about this. This isn't really about shares, but diff with high hashrate miners question. When Mr 80TH's shows up on pool it's just killing everyone else it seems. Default diff is 999 or so. Based on what you're saying that is not actually correct because if you get a share it's worth more.
Currently one address around 12TH/s and you just see all the estimated earnings going down for smaller miners.
I think I read about custom changes to set diff per address. I really need to check into this. I guess the only other thing you can do is maybe suggest manual diff for high hashrate miners?

So I guess just stick it out and hope to get a share even if you're getting trounced.
(I just read some of the previous posts. Those snuck in on me. Makes more sense now)


O and thanks for all the info jbravo!
I wrote an FAQ on setting P2Pools share difficulty under the section "Can I set my own share difficulty?":

http://xpool.net/faq.html


Thought it might help some people....
I've read through your FAQ.  Nice writeup.  I do have a few comments/questions for you.

1) You state that setting your difficulty to something silly low (like /0 for example) will have an effect on your payout.  I do not believe this to be true.  A submitted share from your miner means absolutely nothing to p2pool unless it is above the threshold difficulty, which currently sits over 4,000,000.  You can set your difficulty to /0 or /10 or /1000000 and it won't mean a thing.  Setting it to a value over 4,000,000 however, will have an effect.  I made a post regarding this a few pages back.
2) You are absolutely correct about the node's hash rate determining the difficulty for the miners, and if you're mining on a node where there is a very large discrepancy between you and the node's hash rate, you'll find shares less often; however, when you do find that share it will be worth more.
3) Where did you get the 0.00000116 value for setting pseudo-share?  I've seen that number passed around, especially for scrypt mining, and I forget the origin.  Also, is that number relevant to BTC, and if not, what is?  I do remember reading a thread about setting difficulty, but damned if I can find it now.

Thanks.

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CartmanSPC
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August 04, 2014, 11:20:30 PM
 #9875

I wrote an FAQ on setting P2Pools share difficulty under the section "Can I set my own share difficulty?":

http://xpool.net/faq.html


Thought it might help some people....
I've read through your FAQ.  Nice writeup.  I do have a few comments/questions for you.

1) You state that setting your difficulty to something silly low (like /0 for example) will have an effect on your payout.  I do not believe this to be true.  A submitted share from your miner means absolutely nothing to p2pool unless it is above the threshold difficulty, which currently sits over 4,000,000.  You can set your difficulty to /0 or /10 or /1000000 and it won't mean a thing.  Setting it to a value over 4,000,000 however, will have an effect.  I made a post regarding this a few pages back.
2) You are absolutely correct about the node's hash rate determining the difficulty for the miners, and if you're mining on a node where there is a very large discrepancy between you and the node's hash rate, you'll find shares less often; however, when you do find that share it will be worth more.
3) Where did you get the 0.00000116 value for setting pseudo-share?  I've seen that number passed around, especially for scrypt mining, and I forget the origin.  Also, is that number relevant to BTC, and if not, what is?  I do remember reading a thread about setting difficulty, but damned if I can find it now.

Thanks.

The concepts are the same but perhaps I should have posted that it is written with primarily scrypt miners in mind Undecided

So, yea the "low setting" caution statement is for coins that could incur large fees when sent due to low payout amounts (dust) to smaller miners. I do believe that the /0 setting overrides the minimum "dust" payout code written into p2pool so you might want to double check on that. Don't remember if I verified from reviewing the code but I'm relatively sure that's how it works....thinking about it though the minimum p2pool share difficulty is too high on BTC to matter...

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August 04, 2014, 11:28:36 PM
 #9876

On number 2 Grin
I have been wondering about this. This isn't really about shares, but diff with high hashrate miners question. When Mr 80TH's shows up on pool it's just killing everyone else it seems. Default diff is 999 or so. Based on what you're saying that is not actually correct because if you get a share it's worth more.
Currently one address around 12TH/s and you just see all the estimated earnings going down for smaller miners.

Have your smaller miners use /0 or whatever you think is appropriate so their share diff is not raised from the larger ones. On my front end I show the miners share diff and expected time to share by address so they can adjust it as necessary.

This is if you use a public node...if you have your own it really shouldn't matter.

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August 04, 2014, 11:30:53 PM
 #9877

I'll try this on an S3. I know Bitmain has their recs ('BTC address/256+256' or 'BTC address+256'.) for S3 P2Pool mining. Maybe I should give it a shot. I have been sticking with just payout address so far.

On number 2 Grin
I have been wondering about this. This isn't really about shares, but diff with high hashrate miners question. When Mr 80TH's shows up on pool it's just killing everyone else it seems. Default diff is 999 or so. Based on what you're saying that is not actually correct because if you get a share it's worth more.
Currently one address around 12TH/s and you just see all the estimated earnings going down for smaller miners.

Have your smaller miners use /0 or whatever you think is appropriate so their share diff is not raised from the larger ones.

SquashPool - 0% Fee - Dedicated P2Pool VPS - Atlanta, GA - SSD - Gig uplink
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August 05, 2014, 12:23:31 AM
 #9878



If you want to get recent blocks found by P2Pool, you can change your front end's code to make a call to the following: https://blockchain.info/blocks/P2Pool?format=json

This will return something like the following:
Code:
{
"blocks" : [
{
"height" : 313941,
"hash" : "0000000000000000366aaafabda75d7fc0a184b4177a8769dc258e97262cd09b",
"time" : 1407153595,
"main_chain" : true
},

{
"height" : 313846,
"hash" : "00000000000000000d086863f8131bc9fdd99689577b06829f8a2e6c171174b5",
"time" : 1407090619,
"main_chain" : true
},

{
"height" : 313791,
"hash" : "0000000000000000183861a2afd974f94116dd533f5d6a0b5d700fbb53e22960",
"time" : 1407056128,
"main_chain" : true
},

{
"height" : 313621,
"hash" : "00000000000000002804cd7f5fea7980524c0cf9dd11d3dd89e413bbd4b02a3f",
"time" : 1406975059,
"main_chain" : true
},

{
"height" : 313578,
"hash" : "000000000000000023a88888e16b1d3bade12cb9e4d47901d0d9e141b291307c",
"time" : 1406949661,
"main_chain" : true
},

{
"height" : 313449,
"hash" : "00000000000000002dc6bc02fbfaa506f6c8e8f80dcf97b2e9961ba28d7ca6da",
"time" : 1406878816,
"main_chain" : true
}
]
}


Is this the line I'm looking to change the call https://blockchain.info/blocks/P2Pool?format=json

Code:
$.getJSON(api_url + '/recent_blocks', function(data) {
          if(data) recent_blocks= data;
          $(document).trigger('update_blocks');
        })
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August 05, 2014, 12:49:16 AM
 #9879



If you want to get recent blocks found by P2Pool, you can change your front end's code to make a call to the following: https://blockchain.info/blocks/P2Pool?format=json

This will return something like the following:
Code:
{
"blocks" : [
{
"height" : 313941,
"hash" : "0000000000000000366aaafabda75d7fc0a184b4177a8769dc258e97262cd09b",
"time" : 1407153595,
"main_chain" : true
},

{
"height" : 313846,
"hash" : "00000000000000000d086863f8131bc9fdd99689577b06829f8a2e6c171174b5",
"time" : 1407090619,
"main_chain" : true
},

{
"height" : 313791,
"hash" : "0000000000000000183861a2afd974f94116dd533f5d6a0b5d700fbb53e22960",
"time" : 1407056128,
"main_chain" : true
},

{
"height" : 313621,
"hash" : "00000000000000002804cd7f5fea7980524c0cf9dd11d3dd89e413bbd4b02a3f",
"time" : 1406975059,
"main_chain" : true
},

{
"height" : 313578,
"hash" : "000000000000000023a88888e16b1d3bade12cb9e4d47901d0d9e141b291307c",
"time" : 1406949661,
"main_chain" : true
},

{
"height" : 313449,
"hash" : "00000000000000002dc6bc02fbfaa506f6c8e8f80dcf97b2e9961ba28d7ca6da",
"time" : 1406878816,
"main_chain" : true
}
]
}


Is this the line I'm looking to change the call https://blockchain.info/blocks/P2Pool?format=json

Code:
$.getJSON(api_url + '/recent_blocks', function(data) {
          if(data) recent_blocks= data;
          $(document).trigger('update_blocks');
        })
Yes, that's where it should be changed.  Note, however, that from my own testing, the blockchain.info site throws back an error if you try to call it from script like that.  Even though it clearly states on their site that it can be done, it fails.  I'm still looking for a way to incorporate it into the JS and not re-writing everything in a php.

Here's what happens when I change the call.  First the code for the call:
Code:
$.getJSON('http://blockchain.info/blocks/P2Pool?format=json&cors=true', function(data) {
  if(data) recent_blocks= data["blocks"];
  $(document).trigger('update_blocks');
});

And the resulting error:
Code:
XMLHttpRequest cannot load http://blockchain.info/blocks/P2Pool?format=json&cors=true. Received an invalid response. Origin 'http://69.141.89.74:9332' is therefore not allowed access.

If I change it to use https, the error becomes:
Code:
XMLHttpRequest cannot load https://blockchain.info/blocks/P2Pool?format=json&cors=true. No 'Access-Control-Allow-Origin' header is present on the requested resource. Origin 'http://69.141.89.74:9332' is therefore not allowed access.

It's an issue on blockchain.info.  They specifically state they allow cross-site connections (that's what the cors=true is supposed to handle), yet as you can see it fails.  I've also tried forcing CORS locally by doing:
Code:
$.support.cors=true
But, that fails as well.

Oh well... the API is there, and it works if you just paste that link in your browser.  Hopefully someone at blockchain.info can fix it.  Like I said, I could probably write php to get it, but I'm just not that motivated at the moment Tongue.

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August 05, 2014, 01:05:47 AM
 #9880

The concepts are the same but perhaps I should have posted that it is written with primarily scrypt miners in mind Undecided

So, yea the "low setting" caution statement is for coins that could incur large fees when sent due to low payout amounts (dust) to smaller miners. I do believe that the /0 setting overrides the minimum "dust" payout code written into p2pool so you might want to double check on that. Don't remember if I verified from reviewing the code but I'm relatively sure that's how it works....thinking about it though the minimum p2pool share difficulty is too high on BTC to matter...
I'll take a look at the code to see if /0 really would override the dust payout threshold.  I didn't see anything to that effect, but then again I wasn't looking for it.  I'll post back here (probably tomorrow, I'm tired of looking at code) with any findings.  Of course, if anybody else can provide an answer to what effect /0 might have on dust threshold, that'd be great, too.

As I wrote a few pages back, I have seen no difference in the performance of my S3s between letting the node determine difficulty, and setting it manually as per Bitmain's direction (ADDRESS/256+256).  The only actual difference I have seen is on the S3 web UI's miner status page.  The value of Best Share is always "0" when manually setting the difficulty.

The real miners who should be setting the difficulty are the big hitters.  If your hashing rate has you expecting to find more than a share an hour, set your difficulty appropriately (i.e. HIGHER than the p2pool share difficulty) so the rest of the miners on the node don't suffer for it.

Huh... there's an interesting thing to look into as well.  If I have 5 miners on my node, 4 miners have 1TH/s each and the 5th miner has 100TH/s, would the node not consider the big hitter's hash rate when setting the difficulty for the other miners if the big hitter sets his own difficulty using ADDRESS/value?  If not, then it is advisable for all miners on public nodes to set a difficulty manually.

It would be nice if forrestv actually provided the answers to these, and other queries.  Unfortunately, he's not been on the boards since 7/26, so this post will probably not gain his attention.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
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