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Author Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool  (Read 2591584 times)
kano
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April 05, 2015, 10:22:14 PM
 #12381

Notice a pattern?   My measly 6.9TH/s (6xS5) is now a small miner.  Top is shares, and bottom is pool hashrate, over a 14 hour period.  I'm sure people can pick this apart, debate luck and statistics, etc... I just thought a good screenshot, somewhat makes a point.

I don't know if you are running your own node or what, and this is my first time in ~8 months looking in the forum, but have you tried /DIFF if you want more frequent (but smaller value) shares? It won't do anything if you are already submitting at the network minimum diff level. But if you are on a public p2pool node that isn't running my old patches, your share difficulty might be higher than it needs to be. (I have no idea if any of my work ever made it into p2pool itself or not.)

Some info:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=18313.msg6556442#msg6556442

I'd suggest running your own p2pool node is the best choice, secondly running off a public node running my patches unless someone else or forrest did something better which made them obsolete, or thirdly manually adjusting /DIFF.
Unfortunately that wont help him in any way (unless he was a big time miner)
/diff is relevant for fake (pseudo) shares when used by small miners
The p2pool share-chain diff is what you must meet before you get a share that will be paid.

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roy7
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April 06, 2015, 01:13:07 AM
Last edit: April 06, 2015, 01:44:56 AM by roy7
 #12382

Unfortunately that wont help him in any way (unless he was a big time miner)
/diff is relevant for fake (pseudo) shares when used by small miners
The p2pool share-chain diff is what you must meet before you get a share that will be paid.

The fake pseudo shares are controlled by +DIFF. The actual difficulty of shares you are trying to submit for credit (not just graphs/hashrate purposes) is /DIFF. Agreed that he's possibly too small for it to matter. (I have no idea what p2pool's share difficulty or bitcoin's difficulty are these days.) /DIFF is usually used by huge miners to reduce their shares/block by voluntarily targeting a very high difficulty target. Small miners running their own node don't need to worry about it, the vardiff logic won't push their target too high.

It's only a problem if you are a small fish in a large public node. In raw p2pool a year ago (no idea if the code has changed), the share-chain diff target for miners on a node was based on the node's hash rate (not the miner). Thus small miners on a public node also being used by other much larger miners would have diff targets higher than the share-chain minimum difficulty. By using /DIFF you can override that. If you want to make sure you always mine at the minimum possible share-chain difficulty, you could just use /1 since it'll make the share-chain difficulty the floor.

Relevant code includes my attempt to fold this into official tree:

https://github.com/forrestv/p2pool/pull/174

And iongchun's branch where he provides some config options to give you more manual control over how it works, but with the same intent/basic result. However, this only effects psuedo-shares.

https://github.com/iongchun/p2pool/tree/auto-worker-diff

Here is me trying to get iongchun's stuff merged in as well:

https://github.com/forrestv/p2pool/pull/187

TLDR: Public node operators should use both 174 and 187 to help small miners be served appropriate difficulty target automatically.
kano
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April 06, 2015, 02:07:40 AM
 #12383

Yeah that was a typo by me Smiley
Should have read:
/diff is irrelevant for fake (pseudo) shares when used by small miners
(but that should be an obvious typo from what else I said)

---

The issue is small miners, so the changes don't help.

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April 06, 2015, 02:25:58 AM
 #12384

Haha. No worries. Smiley
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April 06, 2015, 03:19:44 PM
 #12385

When it starts taking you longer to find a share than it does for the pool to find a block you perceive your mining to be "wasted" because blocks will be found for which you receive no payment.

I've not been active in the bitcoin community for a long time now, just randomly popped in the thread to see what's up, and I see this is still a topic of conversation. It's important to note (as you did) it is simply perception/variance, and people don't actually lose any income. If you can only find 1 share every 2 blocks, that share will pay enough that the income per block is still the correct average. This was a common point of confusion and misinformation a year ago. I suspect it will persist forever.
Welcome back... haven't seen you for a while Smiley.  You're right, not a whole lot has changed.  There's still excitement when we find blocks, disappointment when we don't and the rest of the time is spent discussing the same topics: variance and its effect on miners, how to address the problem of variance with "small" miners, if anyone has a solution to the scaling problem...

Pool hash rate has gone up to 4PH/s and down as low as 800TH/s.  Share difficulty has run the gamut as well.  Windpath has done some really nice work and his site has become the de-facto goto for p2pool-related stats.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
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April 06, 2015, 06:22:34 PM
 #12386

Holy smoke - seems it was one of my old S3's that found that last block!

Outstanding  Grin

-- Smiley  Thank you for smoking  Smiley --  If you paid VAT to dogie for items you should read this thread:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1018906.0
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April 06, 2015, 06:25:14 PM
 #12387

Holy smoke - seems it was one of my old S3's that found that last block!

Outstanding  Grin
Glad you decided to point them here, then Smiley

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
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April 06, 2015, 06:27:21 PM
 #12388

Holy smoke - seems it was one of my old S3's that found that last block!

Outstanding  Grin
Glad you decided to point them here, then Smiley

Yeah, I'll keep a few here, as long as the hash rate stays low........ Cheesy

-- Smiley  Thank you for smoking  Smiley --  If you paid VAT to dogie for items you should read this thread:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1018906.0
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April 06, 2015, 06:28:00 PM
 #12389

Holy smoke - seems it was one of my old S3's that found that last block!

Outstanding  Grin

Awesome!
Prelude
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April 06, 2015, 10:21:46 PM
 #12390

Holy smoke - seems it was one of my old S3's that found that last block!

Outstanding  Grin

Good job!  Grin
jedimstr
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April 07, 2015, 11:41:38 AM
 #12391

Holy smoke - seems it was one of my old S3's that found that last block!

Outstanding  Grin

Thank you sir, may I have another?

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April 07, 2015, 05:17:08 PM
 #12392

Holy smoke - seems it was one of my old S3's that found that last block!

Outstanding  Grin

Thank you sir, may I have another?

Working on it....... Cheesy

-- Smiley  Thank you for smoking  Smiley --  If you paid VAT to dogie for items you should read this thread:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1018906.0
roy7
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April 07, 2015, 08:41:41 PM
 #12393

Welcome back... haven't seen you for a while Smiley.  You're right, not a whole lot has changed.  There's still excitement when we find blocks, disappointment when we don't and the rest of the time is spent discussing the same topics: variance and its effect on miners, how to address the problem of variance with "small" miners, if anyone has a solution to the scaling problem...

Pool hash rate has gone up to 4PH/s and down as low as 800TH/s.  Share difficulty has run the gamut as well.  Windpath has done some really nice work and his site has become the de-facto goto for p2pool-related stats.

Looked over Windpath's site, looks cool. Smiley I remember the Node Stats was the front end I liked and used on my pools. I see my blocklines pull request did get merged in. mmouse and iongchun had made some nice tweaks as well. iongchun added a link on the default page addresses to an address-specific page, where all stats were based just for yourself. Quite nice and personal for a no-login stat system.

I eventually turned my own little miners off (just an S1 and a couple tiny things) so I don't have the hash power to even bother with alt coins any more. The hassle of IRS reporting when they released their guidelines is what was the nail in the coffin for me.
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April 07, 2015, 08:44:19 PM
 #12394

For small miners there was that proxypool project,

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=461632.0

but it appears he's been out of the forum for a year as well and his pool is gone.
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April 08, 2015, 12:23:18 PM
 #12395

roy7 - take a look at what OgNasty and Nonnakip have done with their NastyPoP implementation.  You can see my long-running thread about it here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=891298.0.

Windpath - coincadence.com is not showing block 351173.  Are you still adding blocks that come from orphaned/dead shares to the site manually?

OgNasty/Nonnakip - same thing on the NastyPoP distribution window standings page at nastyfans.org/miners.  351173 is missing.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
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April 08, 2015, 12:59:01 PM
 #12396

For small miners there was that proxypool project,

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=461632.0

but it appears he's been out of the forum for a year as well and his pool is gone.

OGNasty launched a p2pool proxy for smaller miners at https://nastyfans.org/nastypool/

It works well, and OG has earned the trust of his community.

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April 08, 2015, 01:07:51 PM
 #12397

roy7 - take a look at what OgNasty and Nonnakip have done with their NastyPoP implementation.  You can see my long-running thread about it here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=891298.0.

Windpath - coincadence.com is not showing block 351173.  Are you still adding blocks that come from orphaned/dead shares to the site manually?

OgNasty/Nonnakip - same thing on the NastyPoP distribution window standings page at nastyfans.org/miners.  351173 is missing.

Ha! Beat me to it on the OG pool Smiley

The short answer to your question is "sometimes"(TM), I'm catching a much higher % of them then before, but some still need to be manually added (like 351173), since monitoring each block does not seem to be working well I may add a fail-safe where it also looks at my mining address for generation TX's it might have missed. It's not ideal but will catch them all as long as I have a share Wink
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April 08, 2015, 11:53:09 PM
 #12398

OGNasty launched a p2pool proxy for smaller miners at https://nastyfans.org/nastypool/

It works well, and OG has earned the trust of his community.

Ahh okay cool, glad someone ran with the idea. clown's ProxyPool he originally only ran for Doge. The code was open sourced, I thought about trying to get it going for regular bitcoin, but he wrote it in Haskell (I think it was), which made my eyes bleed trying to learn. Finally gave up as being too hard to learn a really weird new language just to run a p2pool proxy that noone might use. Smiley
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April 13, 2015, 12:16:51 AM
 #12399

Street Closed, Pending Block Party
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April 13, 2015, 12:10:49 PM
 #12400

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