[1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool

[jonnybravo0311]

Wow, I think this is the most active this thread has been in months...

Any Antminer that has not been updated to use some version of mainline cgminer will not submit stale shares.  This is bad, because those stale shares can be valid block solutions that p2pool would happily submit.  Kano, where do you get the 95% number you've provided?  Maybe you could provide a definition of a stale share and how cgminer determines if a share is stale as I'm sure people would find the information useful.

@notbatman, I don't think I'd go blaming the XT guys for the run of bad luck.  And you're the second or third person in the past few days to talk about orphaned blocks.  P2Pool has not had an orphaned block since January 7th of this year.  Maybe other pools are having a string of orphans, but that is definitely not the case here.

@BlInK311, you can manually call getblocktemplate, pick a nonce and apply the SHA256 hash to the data.  If you picked correctly, you put that hash into the block template and submit your block.  Good luck!  (Yes, I GROSSLY oversimplified that description).

[1713565818]

1713565818

[1713565818]

1713565818

[1713565818]

1713565818

[1713565818]

1713565818

[kano]

Wow, I think this is the most active this thread has been in months...

Any Antminer that has not been updated to use some version of mainline cgminer will not submit stale shares.  This is bad, because those stale shares can be valid block solutions that p2pool would happily submit.  Kano, where do you get the 95% number you've provided?  Maybe you could provide a definition of a stale share and how cgminer determines if a share is stale as I'm sure people would find the information useful.

...

p2pool share chain shares average 30s
bitcoin network blocks average 600s
thus 1/20 of stale shares are at the same time as a bitcoin network block change
thus 19/20 of stale shares are not at the same time as a bitcoin network block change
thus 95% of stale p2pool blocks are valid bitcoin network blocks

...
Now, if instead you are implying that losing such blocks is rare ... you are mistaken.
95% of stale share blocks on p2pool are valid bitcoin network blocks.
That is the reason why forrestv changed p2pool to submit stale share blocks to bitcoind when we pointed out the problem to him.

How often do these stale share blocks occur?
At least as often as any p2pool blocks that don't appear in the p2pool share chain (Edit: these are the stale share blocks)
...

Edit: but I should also add, that since a high % of share chain shares are stale (10%?) then that would mean that 10% of blocks found on p2pool would be stale share chain shares
So since 95% of them are actually valid bitcoin network blocks, then that would put the figure around 9.5% of p2pool blocks.

[windpath]

21 Inc CEO:

"ultimate goal is basically "p2pool v2"."

https://twitter.com/balajis/status/669446465840893952

[kano]

21 Inc CEO:

"ultimate goal is basically "p2pool v2"."

https://twitter.com/balajis/status/669446465840893952

I'll believe him when he explains the solutions to the p2pool issues.
There's a lot of marketing in that area of the bitcoin world that has nothing to do with reality.

[p3yot33at3r]

21 Inc CEO:

"ultimate goal is basically "p2pool v2"."

https://twitter.com/balajis/status/669446465840893952

That is indeed good to hear! However, after the bitmain debacle regarding their supposed version & support of p2pool - I'm a little wary to say the least. After all, 21 Inc. is a business, & businesses don't do anything if there's no money to be made doing it.

If I used twatter - I'd follow him though  

[jonnybravo0311]

LOL... ultimate goal is p2pool v2.  Where have we heard that line of crap before?  I've got a lot of "ultimate goals", too.  If I state them, do they automatically become a reality?

[Richy_T]

Sorry guys, it's my fault. I finally got my rig stable. Of course there's no blocks...

[jonnybravo0311]

Oh, well now that you've managed to stabilize your rig we should expect to see the blocks rolling in any minute now.  About damn time you got that sorted .

[p3yot33at3r]

Sorry guys, it's my fault. I finally got my rig stable. Of course there's no blocks...

What was the problem in the end?

[windpath]

Thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3u7sk2/balaji_s_srinivasan_on_twitter_we_have_a_way_to/

Quote:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3u7sk2/balaji_s_srinivasan_on_twitter_we_have_a_way_to/cxclws3

As the provider of the primary source of data for P2Pool miners (http://minefast.coincadence.com), the owner of p2pool.org, and someone who has been active with the P2Pool community for a while I would love to hear how 21 Inc. plans to roll out "P2Pool v2".

P2Pool's biggest strength is it's open source, trust-less and decentralized nature, preserving those traits should be the number 1 priority.

Other large operations (Bitmain Tech) have claimed to be rolling out a new version of P2Pool in the past, but as it turned out they just wanted to capitalize on the good will associated with P2Pool's name for their marketing message while continuing to run a closed, centralized mining pool. I certainly hope that is not the case with 21 Inc.

P2Pool is simply awesome, and I'd like as much as anyone to see it continue to grow, however there are some real challenges that need to be solved for it to be a decentralized, trust-less solution for miners around the world. Some pretty smart folks have been thinking about that problems for a while and the solution has yet to be discovered/invented.

I look forward to hearing Balaji's plan to address those problems.

Not that I expect a reply, but can't hurt to spell it out for the Reddit folks.

[p3yot33at3r]

Not that I expect a reply, but can't hurt to spell it out for the Reddit folks.

LOL....Reddit users quite often need things spelling out for them - they're not the sharpest tools in the shed 

Nice post there though windpath, well done. Like you say, don't hold your breath for a reply though 

[p3yot33at3r]

BLOCK!!  

Bugger me. That was a marathon.

[notbatman]

They never come alone...

[notbatman]

You see if the blocks weren't all bunched together then they'd be evenly spaced out and thus not random.

[windpath]

21 Inc CEO:

"ultimate goal is basically "p2pool v2"."

https://twitter.com/balajis/status/669446465840893952

Happy to report not only is Balaji sincere, they are actively working on it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3u7sk2/balaji_s_srinivasan_on_twitter_we_have_a_way_to/cxcxdlx

And the block is nice too

[kano]

21 Inc CEO:

"ultimate goal is basically "p2pool v2"."

https://twitter.com/balajis/status/669446465840893952

Happy to report not only is Balaji sincere, they are actively working on it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3u7sk2/balaji_s_srinivasan_on_twitter_we_have_a_way_to/cxcxdlx

And the block is nice too

Sigh antpool v2

He's talking about distributed mining.

Yes that's what mining is ... distributed

The issue is a different word ... decentralised.

The pool issue is ... decentralised pools.

p2pool is the only (close to) decentralised pool.
I say "close to" due to the fact that there are centralised p2pool nodes where people run p2pool and other miners mine to their p2pools (that is called centralisation)

[p3yot33at3r]

Happy to report not only is Balaji sincere, they are actively working on it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3u7sk2/balaji_s_srinivasan_on_twitter_we_have_a_way_to/cxcxdlx

And the block is nice too

I'm pleasantly surprised he replied so quickly 

However, as kano says, it does sound a lot like antpool v2 - & he doesn't go into much detail at all.

Maybe I'm being too skeptical, but we've all been lied to before, so I'm not going to get all excited until I see a more open & detailed analysis from 21 Inc.

All good PR for p2pool though, so that's good 

[wariner]

For the "Antminer problem", I added on my pages nodes stats a notice message.

It would be appreciated add on all nodes public 

you think is useful?

[Richy_T]

Sorry guys, it's my fault. I finally got my rig stable. Of course there's no blocks...

What was the problem in the end?

Dropping the hash rate seemed to help. Plus the newer version of the firmware.

Though I'm not absolutely sure I'm completely stable now. It just seemed like a humorous time to say so.

[windpath]

Nothing like a full belly of turkey and stuffing and a block for desert... Happy thanksgiving folks!