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Author Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool  (Read 2589861 times)
kano
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December 18, 2013, 02:27:54 PM
 #7201

Is there any graph of share minimum difficulty over time?  In theory, if larger miners started using lower difficulty shares, then the minimum share difficulty would increase.
No (to the theory)

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Yogafan00000
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December 18, 2013, 02:37:39 PM
 #7202

I am getting a high amount of orphans since upgrading Litecoin to 8.6.1 and p2pool to 13.4 mining Litecoins.

Shares: 12 total (8 orphaned, 1 dead) Efficiency: 31.46% running ~850kh/s

My other pool installation (not upgraded) running only 300kh/s is currently showing a reward payout amount of ~0.12LTC where my higher upgraded pool is zero.

Is anyone seeing this? or is this just normal variance?

1YogAFA... (oh, nevermind)
Schleicher
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December 18, 2013, 04:46:56 PM
 #7203

Is there any graph of share minimum difficulty over time?  In theory, if larger miners started using lower difficulty shares, then the minimum share difficulty would increase.
No (to the theory)
Yes (to the theory)

Raulnsh
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December 18, 2013, 05:39:29 PM
 #7204

Is anyone seeing this? or is this just normal variance?
Yes, I also meet the similar condition (look at the previous page). The client 13.4 does not function properly and nobody here tempts to explain why. Do not use it.
Yogafan00000
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December 18, 2013, 07:04:19 PM
 #7205

Is anyone seeing this? or is this just normal variance?
Yes, I also meet the similar condition (look at the previous page). The client 13.4 does not function properly and nobody here tempts to explain why. Do not use it.

Ok, I rolled back to my previous versions of p2pool and litecoin wallet.

Interestingly enough, I decided to do a wallet backup before the rollback.  Before I had a chance to backup, Litecoin wallet had crashed.  When I restarted, the wallet was ~26 hours out of sync.  When it resync'd, I only had mining payouts from my smaller pre-upgrade pool.  No rewards from the upgraded pool.

Before all of this, I was getting from 4-10 mining payouts per day on my larger pool.

Something appears hinky with the new versions of Litecoin and p2pool.

1YogAFA... (oh, nevermind)
organofcorti
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December 19, 2013, 02:01:32 AM
Last edit: December 19, 2013, 06:15:04 AM by organofcorti
 #7206

Is there any graph of share minimum difficulty over time?  In theory, if larger miners started using lower difficulty shares, then the minimum share difficulty would increase.

Yes, to the graph, sort of. I did a chart of estimated share difficulty assuming that all miners had the default difficulty estimation, but it was about 30 - 40 % too high as of last week, probably because larger miners are using higher difficulty shares. I don't know of a data based chart of average difficulty though.

Bitcoin network and pool analysis 12QxPHEuxDrs7mCyGSx1iVSozTwtquDB3r
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Bismarckbkk
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December 19, 2013, 05:25:31 AM
 #7207

To use a public node do I have to use my btc wallet as Username?

And how does payment work? Do I have to rely on the node host to manually transfer ?

1EPhcyv9GPcCwwbtVt3a3nwC1o4pn67bax
Krellan
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December 19, 2013, 06:51:14 AM
 #7208

Here is the list  Grin

Nice, thanks for making the list!

Was wondering how much should be refunded, out of what I got out of mining that block (what little there was, I'm a small-time miner).

Just sent my refund now.  I wonder how much he ended up getting back?

Josh

1JUZr4TZ5zuB4WdEv4mrhZMaM7yttpJvLG Smiley
kano
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December 19, 2013, 01:10:55 PM
 #7209

Is there any graph of share minimum difficulty over time?  In theory, if larger miners started using lower difficulty shares, then the minimum share difficulty would increase.
No (to the theory)
Yes (to the theory)
Difficulty is based on the p2pool "hash rate" - which clearly you don't understand what that is.

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Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!
TierNolan
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December 19, 2013, 01:16:10 PM
 #7210

Just sent my refund now.  I wonder how much he ended up getting back?

Well, the address has received:

https://blockchain.info/address/1Jt35Ww1GjM9iGyTM8mAyBmCPPdPz7Z35A

0.00910939
0.012
0.01034493
0.00782222
0.00833241
0.01636022
0.05
0.007
0.01211514
0.4
0.24946551
0.00078327
0.13003489
0.00785308
0.03835116
0.01000602

Total: 0.96957824

So, about 5% refunded, assuming all payments are refund payments.

1LxbG5cKXzTwZg9mjL3gaRE835uNQEteWF
TierNolan
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December 19, 2013, 01:20:10 PM
 #7211

Is there any graph of share minimum difficulty over time?  In theory, if larger miners started using lower difficulty shares, then the minimum share difficulty would increase.
No (to the theory)
Yes (to the theory)
Difficulty is based on the p2pool "hash rate" - which clearly you don't understand what that is.

The number of shares is targeted at one every 30 seconds.

If everyone used the minimum share difficulty, then it would be directly linked.

However, if a large miner uses low difficulty, he would generate lots of shares.  In order to help the pool, he sets his difficulty higher.

This means he gets fewer shares, but each share has a higher weight.

If that miner was 25% of the hashing power, and he contributed only 1% of the shares, then the pool would only generate 76% as many shares.

The difficulty algorithm would re-target and reduce the minimum difficulty.  This would push the share rate back to one every 30 seconds.

If lots of large miners set their difficulty target higher, then they put less load on the system and so the difficulty can be set lower to help miners with lower hash rates.  This helps more people enter the pool, and so, helps everyone.

1LxbG5cKXzTwZg9mjL3gaRE835uNQEteWF
Yogafan00000
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December 19, 2013, 01:55:39 PM
 #7212

Is anyone seeing this? or is this just normal variance?
Yes, I also meet the similar condition (look at the previous page). The client 13.4 does not function properly and nobody here tempts to explain why. Do not use it.

Ok, I rolled back to my previous versions of p2pool and litecoin wallet.

Interestingly enough, I decided to do a wallet backup before the rollback.  Before I had a chance to backup, Litecoin wallet had crashed.  When I restarted, the wallet was ~26 hours out of sync.  When it resync'd, I only had mining payouts from my smaller pre-upgrade pool.  No rewards from the upgraded pool.

Before all of this, I was getting from 4-10 mining payouts per day on my larger pool.

Something appears hinky with the new versions of Litecoin and p2pool.

I'm happy to report mining rewards are appearing again after the rollback to the previous versions. Shares: 4 (0 orphan, 1 dead)

I'm figuring the upgrade cost me a 2 day's worth of Litecoins, which for me, is about 0.6LTC.

1YogAFA... (oh, nevermind)
Yogafan00000
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December 19, 2013, 02:18:38 PM
 #7213

Here is the list  Grin


My portion of the refund sent.

1YogAFA... (oh, nevermind)
supermine
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December 19, 2013, 03:19:50 PM
 #7214

Do you recomment using p2pool as only "pool" ? I'm having troubles with downtimes for certain coins with other pools.

I have 1Mh/s with Scrypt (2 fast GPUs), is it wise to connect to p2pool only?
kano
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December 19, 2013, 08:05:00 PM
 #7215

Is there any graph of share minimum difficulty over time?  In theory, if larger miners started using lower difficulty shares, then the minimum share difficulty would increase.
No (to the theory)
Yes (to the theory)
Difficulty is based on the p2pool "hash rate" - which clearly you don't understand what that is.

The number of shares is targeted at one every 30 seconds.

If everyone used the minimum share difficulty, then it would be directly linked.

However, if a large miner uses low difficulty, he would generate lots of shares.  In order to help the pool, he sets his difficulty higher.

This means he gets fewer shares, but each share has a higher weight.

If that miner was 25% of the hashing power, and he contributed only 1% of the shares, then the pool would only generate 76% as many shares.

The difficulty algorithm would re-target and reduce the minimum difficulty.  This would push the share rate back to one every 30 seconds.

If lots of large miners set their difficulty target higher, then they put less load on the system and so the difficulty can be set lower to help miners with lower hash rates.  This helps more people enter the pool, and so, helps everyone.
No, coz if the large miner submits less share difficulty during one round, then they submit more share difficulty during some other round(s), which simply averages out.

The affect of a large miner using higher difficulty is to destabilise the share difficulty more - it doesn't affect the average.

The well known bitcoin term here is called ... variance. Read up about it Smiley

Pool: https://kano.is - lowest fee PPLNS 3 Days - Most reliable Solo with ONLY 0.5% fee   Bitcointalk thread: Forum
Discord support invite at https://kano.is/ Majority developer of the ckpool code - k for kano
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!
supermine
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December 19, 2013, 08:34:14 PM
 #7216

How many hours does it usually take the pool to pay out?
Krak
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December 19, 2013, 08:43:15 PM
 #7217

How many hours does it usually take the pool to pay out?
About 1 millisecond.

BTC: 1KrakenLFEFg33A4f6xpwgv3UUoxrLPuGn
Schleicher
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December 19, 2013, 08:50:48 PM
 #7218

If lots of large miners set their difficulty target higher, then they put less load on the system and so the difficulty can be set lower to help miners with lower hash rates.  This helps more people enter the pool, and so, helps everyone.
No, coz if the large miner submits less share difficulty during one round, then they submit more share difficulty during some other round(s), which simply averages out.
We are not talking about the lenght of the rounds here.
It's about the number of shares per minute.

TierNolan
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December 19, 2013, 09:04:40 PM
 #7219

No, coz if the large miner submits less share difficulty during one round, then they submit more share difficulty during some other round(s), which simply averages out.

The affect of a large miner using higher difficulty is to destabilise the share difficulty more - it doesn't affect the average.

I didn't claim it did.  What it does do is lower the minimum difficulty, which helps low has rate miners have reduced variance.

The total p2pool network power is around 100TH/s.  If shares are every 30 seconds, then each share represents 3000TH (3000 * 10^12 hashes).

If all shares were the same difficulty, then that would be the effective share difficulty, in average hashes.

If you have 10GH/s, it will take on average 3.47 days to get a share.

If half of the miners switch to 10X the minimum difficulty, then they need 30,000TH to get a share.  Since they have half of the mining power, they have 50TH/s.  This means that one of them gets a share every (30000 / 50) = 600 seconds = 10 minutes.  The rest of the pool has the standard difficulty, so they get a share every 60 seconds.

This means that in 10 minutes, the miners will find 1 + 10 = 11 shares.  This works out as one share every 54 seconds.

The system will then lower the minimum difficulty by around 50%.  Now a 10GH/s miner will get a share around twice as fast as before (but worth half as much).  This gives those miners lower variance and the same average returns.

Quote
The well known bitcoin term here is called ... variance. Read up about it Smiley

Yeah, I know.

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kano
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December 19, 2013, 09:54:14 PM
 #7220

No, coz if the large miner submits less share difficulty during one round, then they submit more share difficulty during some other round(s), which simply averages out.

The affect of a large miner using higher difficulty is to destabilise the share difficulty more - it doesn't affect the average.

I didn't claim it did.  What it does do is lower the minimum difficulty, which helps low has rate miners have reduced variance.

The total p2pool network power is around 100TH/s.  If shares are every 30 seconds, then each share represents 3000TH (3000 * 10^12 hashes).

If all shares were the same difficulty, then that would be the effective share difficulty, in average hashes.

If you have 10GH/s, it will take on average 3.47 days to get a share.

If half of the miners switch to 10X the minimum difficulty, then they need 30,000TH to get a share.  Since they have half of the mining power, they have 50TH/s.  This means that one of them gets a share every (30000 / 50) = 600 seconds = 10 minutes.  The rest of the pool has the standard difficulty, so they get a share every 60 seconds.

This means that in 10 minutes, the miners will find 1 + 10 = 11 shares.  This works out as one share every 54 seconds.

The system will then lower the minimum difficulty by around 50%.  Now a 10GH/s miner will get a share around twice as fast as before (but worth half as much).  This gives those miners lower variance and the same average returns.

Quote
The well known bitcoin term here is called ... variance. Read up about it Smiley

Yeah, I know.
No.

You are missing the issue of variance.

If the difficulty drops it will also go up. It averages out to the same share difficulty.

So statistically you still get the same number of shares over time.

Pool: https://kano.is - lowest fee PPLNS 3 Days - Most reliable Solo with ONLY 0.5% fee   Bitcointalk thread: Forum
Discord support invite at https://kano.is/ Majority developer of the ckpool code - k for kano
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!
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