Bitcoin Forum
October 23, 2018, 09:39:42 PM *
News: Make sure you are not using versions of Bitcoin Core other than 0.17.0 [Torrent], 0.16.3, 0.15.2, or 0.14.3. More info.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 [3]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Am I the only miner who feels disgusted by the talk of PoW change?  (Read 5912 times)
VentMine
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 229
Merit: 100


View Profile
April 20, 2017, 05:27:38 AM
 #41

Pointless discussion - GPUs are ASICs

If someone makes a GPU scam coin, and if it ever actually got worth anything, then you just make an ASIC to mine it.

but you can effectively change the algo again and again to make asic worthless, gpu can instead adapt to the new change making it more flexible and not worthless after the algo is changed

in fact no one is building asic for vertcoin, which is the coin that did this to avoid asic mining, bitcoin would have been more decentralized for sure with gpu, the diff would also be much lower and this would allow casual mining

I think GPU mined coins will always be limited. I'm going to sound ridiculous but I have a belief that given two different coins the one with more energy consumption in mining will support / result in a more valuable coin, all else being equal. A big assumption here is that there are no further efficiency gains for a given miner (mining unit has reached peak hashrate/watt). If this is true, coins mined on a GPU-mined coin will always have trouble gaining value at the rate of an ASIC mined coin (where ASIC here just means a higher wattage/volume - i.e. power density). With a lower power density network expansion is more difficult so dramatic increases in price due to market optimism will result in a downwards pressure on price from miners due to the need to sell their coin (pressure to sell).

Edit - I'll add, the pressure to sell primarily results from the need to pay the power bill and / or purchase more miners to stay competitive

1ESSdoVYKm8sNtYMfdkFBajhAe2e6G8keH
1540330782
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1540330782

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1540330782
Reply with quote  #2

1540330782
Report to moderator
1540330782
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1540330782

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1540330782
Reply with quote  #2

1540330782
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1540330782
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1540330782

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1540330782
Reply with quote  #2

1540330782
Report to moderator
fanita
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 228
Merit: 100


View Profile
April 20, 2017, 09:51:33 AM
 #42

Already imagine that there will be a rise in the limit from 1 to 2.

JGoRed
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 210
Merit: 100



View Profile
April 20, 2017, 07:08:20 PM
 #43

I feel the same, although I feel like it will never actually change as miners have all the hashpower Smiley
kano
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2604
Merit: 1056


Linux since 1997 RedHat 4


View Profile
May 03, 2017, 12:08:50 AM
 #44

Pointless discussion - GPUs are ASICs

If someone makes a GPU scam coin, and if it ever actually got worth anything, then you just make an ASIC to mine it.

but you can effectively change the algo again and again to make asic worthless, gpu can instead adapt to the new change making it more flexible and not worthless after the algo is changed

in fact no one is building asic for vertcoin, which is the coin that did this to avoid asic mining, bitcoin would have been more decentralized for sure with gpu, the diff would also be much lower and this would allow casual mining
So either the options to change the PoW are designed into the coin code and you design that into the ASIC also, or you are dealing with some stupid coin that who knows when the centralised control of that coin is going to change it and stop everyone from being able to mine the coin without getting a new program to mine it ... oh wait isn't this supposed to be peer2peer? Nope that's centralised control.

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLU
FreeNode IRC: irc.freenode.net channel #kano.is Majority developer of the ckpool code
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!
Unacceptable
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2212
Merit: 1001



View Profile
May 04, 2017, 12:15:09 PM
 #45

Pointless discussion - GPUs are ASICs

If someone makes a GPU scam coin, and if it ever actually got worth anything, then you just make an ASIC to mine it.

but you can effectively change the algo again and again to make asic worthless, gpu can instead adapt to the new change making it more flexible and not worthless after the algo is changed

in fact no one is building asic for vertcoin, which is the coin that did this to avoid asic mining, bitcoin would have been more decentralized for sure with gpu, the diff would also be much lower and this would allow casual mining
So either the options to change the PoW are designed into the coin code and you design that into the ASIC also, or you are dealing with some stupid coin that who knows when the centralised control of that coin is going to change it and stop everyone from being able to mine the coin without getting a new program to mine it ... oh wait isn't this supposed to be peer2peer? Nope that's centralised control.

What are you on about??? Several GPU only coins can change if ASICs ever start to take em over........just old farts (& corp owned mines & ASIC makers) want only Bitcoin to succeed  Cheesy

I really hope a GPU coin gives Bitcoin a run.... we little people need a coin  Wink

"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day long, you are the asshole."  -Raylan Givens
Got GOXXED ?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KiqRpPiJAU&feature=youtu.be
"An ASIC being late is perfectly normal, predictable, and legal..."Hashfast & BFL slogan Smiley
mindrust
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218
Merit: 1159



View Profile WWW
May 04, 2017, 12:21:12 PM
 #46

The current PoW system is flawed. I support the change.

Sooner it happens, less damage we suffer later. By every passing day, the possible damage is getting bigger and malicious viruses like bitmain is getting stronger.

We may see a huge price dump on bitcoin but so what? Bitcoiners got used to it.  Cool ASICs exist because they cracked the PoW algorithm. If you invested so much in Bitmain toys, that's your fault. Nobody said you to do so.
VentMine
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 229
Merit: 100


View Profile
May 04, 2017, 03:45:14 PM
 #47

The current PoW system is flawed. I support the change.

Sooner it happens, less damage we suffer later. By every passing day, the possible damage is getting bigger and malicious viruses like bitmain is getting stronger.

We may see a huge price dump on bitcoin but so what? Bitcoiners got used to it.  Cool ASICs exist because they cracked the PoW algorithm. If you invested so much in Bitmain toys, that's your fault. Nobody said you to do so.

You shouldn't promote this flawed thinking without explaining how you will fix it. You are being toxic

1ESSdoVYKm8sNtYMfdkFBajhAe2e6G8keH
mindrust
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218
Merit: 1159



View Profile WWW
May 04, 2017, 04:33:36 PM
 #48

The current PoW system is flawed. I support the change.

Sooner it happens, less damage we suffer later. By every passing day, the possible damage is getting bigger and malicious viruses like bitmain is getting stronger.

We may see a huge price dump on bitcoin but so what? Bitcoiners got used to it.  Cool ASICs exist because they cracked the PoW algorithm. If you invested so much in Bitmain toys, that's your fault. Nobody said you to do so.

You shouldn't promote this flawed thinking without explaining how you will fix it. You are being toxic

Fix is ez: A new ASICproof algorithm. If Wu hacks it again, then we should change the algo again. We need to get rid of ASICs and Wu. Don't worry, keep doing this Wu will eventually leave us alone because his piece of shit company won't be able to make any money.

Yes i am toxic to ASIC lovers. You can keep sucking WU's balls. Some of are still prefer to stay straight.
tiendung2613
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 6
Merit: 0


View Profile
May 04, 2017, 04:57:37 PM
 #49

Now I have gpus for alt coins and s9s for btc.

I have a foot in both camps.

I also think segwit is death for btc

I prefer Bu over over segwit.

And POW is worse then either one
Amph
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2016
Merit: 1001



View Profile
May 05, 2017, 06:27:39 AM
 #50

Pointless discussion - GPUs are ASICs

If someone makes a GPU scam coin, and if it ever actually got worth anything, then you just make an ASIC to mine it.

but you can effectively change the algo again and again to make asic worthless, gpu can instead adapt to the new change making it more flexible and not worthless after the algo is changed

in fact no one is building asic for vertcoin, which is the coin that did this to avoid asic mining, bitcoin would have been more decentralized for sure with gpu, the diff would also be much lower and this would allow casual mining
So either the options to change the PoW are designed into the coin code and you design that into the ASIC also, or you are dealing with some stupid coin that who knows when the centralised control of that coin is going to change it and stop everyone from being able to mine the coin without getting a new program to mine it ... oh wait isn't this supposed to be peer2peer? Nope that's centralised control.

what you are talking about when you say centralized control? there is no centralized control on vertcoin for example, if you mean by the dev or his team it's no different than core and what we have for bitcoin

the algo change is in agreement with all the party that are mining that coin not a single entity decide it, and there is no doubt that gpu can promote mining decentralization deny this would be lying shamelessly
Unacceptable
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2212
Merit: 1001



View Profile
May 05, 2017, 09:50:43 AM
 #51

Pointless discussion - GPUs are ASICs

If someone makes a GPU scam coin, and if it ever actually got worth anything, then you just make an ASIC to mine it.

but you can effectively change the algo again and again to make asic worthless, gpu can instead adapt to the new change making it more flexible and not worthless after the algo is changed

in fact no one is building asic for vertcoin, which is the coin that did this to avoid asic mining, bitcoin would have been more decentralized for sure with gpu, the diff would also be much lower and this would allow casual mining
So either the options to change the PoW are designed into the coin code and you design that into the ASIC also, or you are dealing with some stupid coin that who knows when the centralised control of that coin is going to change it and stop everyone from being able to mine the coin without getting a new program to mine it ... oh wait isn't this supposed to be peer2peer? Nope that's centralised control.

what you are talking about when you say centralized control? there is no centralized control on vertcoin for example, if you mean by the dev or his team it's no different than core and what we have for bitcoin

the algo change is in agreement with all the party that are mining that coin not a single entity decide it, and there is no doubt that gpu can promote mining decentralization deny this would be lying shamelessly


And denying would also cutoff profits to most that argue against it........  Cheesy

Greed is why ASICs were created,not to DEcentralize..............

"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day long, you are the asshole."  -Raylan Givens
Got GOXXED ?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KiqRpPiJAU&feature=youtu.be
"An ASIC being late is perfectly normal, predictable, and legal..."Hashfast & BFL slogan Smiley
VentMine
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 229
Merit: 100


View Profile
May 05, 2017, 03:00:31 PM
 #52

I love listening to all the naive people advocating for a PoW change, ignorance at its finest. None of these people are able to explain how their solution would prevent further mining centralization. I'll say it one more time, it's not ASICs that cause centralization, it's access to low cost power. People with this access will always dominate PoW mining. GPU included.

1ESSdoVYKm8sNtYMfdkFBajhAe2e6G8keH
Unacceptable
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2212
Merit: 1001



View Profile
May 06, 2017, 01:38:58 AM
 #53

I love listening to all the naive people advocating for a PoW change, ignorance at its finest. None of these people are able to explain how their solution would prevent further mining centralization. I'll say it one more time, it's not ASICs that cause centralization, it's access to low cost power. People with this access will always dominate PoW mining. GPU included.

And you are a moron............can YOU make an ASIC miner?? Can YOU buy an ASIC miner ANYTIME you want one?? Maybe.......

GPU's can be bought by ANYONE at ANYTIME in HUNDREDS of places!!!!!

Yes cheap power can "centralize" mining,but with GPU's that will take quite awhile longer than it did with ASIC's that were MAINLY sold in LARGE volumes to millionaire mining corporations or by the manufacturers themselves.

Who's naive?? Looks like it's you moron,Mr. knowitallbitcoinmineradviceman  Cheesy

Your new here so I'll be nice!!!  Wink

"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day long, you are the asshole."  -Raylan Givens
Got GOXXED ?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KiqRpPiJAU&feature=youtu.be
"An ASIC being late is perfectly normal, predictable, and legal..."Hashfast & BFL slogan Smiley
VentMine
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 229
Merit: 100


View Profile
May 08, 2017, 10:33:18 PM
 #54

I love listening to all the naive people advocating for a PoW change, ignorance at its finest. None of these people are able to explain how their solution would prevent further mining centralization. I'll say it one more time, it's not ASICs that cause centralization, it's access to low cost power. People with this access will always dominate PoW mining. GPU included.

And you are a moron............can YOU make an ASIC miner?? Can YOU buy an ASIC miner ANYTIME you want one?? Maybe.......

GPU's can be bought by ANYONE at ANYTIME in HUNDREDS of places!!!!!

Yes cheap power can "centralize" mining,but with GPU's that will take quite awhile longer than it did with ASIC's that were MAINLY sold in LARGE volumes to millionaire mining corporations or by the manufacturers themselves.

Who's naive?? Looks like it's you moron,Mr. knowitallbitcoinmineradviceman  Cheesy

Your new here so I'll be nice!!!  Wink

Respect gone for you sir, sad since you were a name I recognized and enjoyed reading. Hard to respect someone who resorts to name calling at the drop of a hat...

The best ASIC in the world is a Bitmain product and they sell them to the public. So everyone has access to ASIC's. Since when was access to ASICs the problem causing centralization? I got one first try..

Since I'm clearly not "MrKnowItAll" but a "moron", why don't you enlighten us on how we can stop mining centralization?

1ESSdoVYKm8sNtYMfdkFBajhAe2e6G8keH
Unacceptable
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2212
Merit: 1001



View Profile
May 09, 2017, 03:33:55 AM
 #55

I love listening to all the naive people advocating for a PoW change, ignorance at its finest. None of these people are able to explain how their solution would prevent further mining centralization. I'll say it one more time, it's not ASICs that cause centralization, it's access to low cost power. People with this access will always dominate PoW mining. GPU included.

And you are a moron............can YOU make an ASIC miner?? Can YOU buy an ASIC miner ANYTIME you want one?? Maybe.......

GPU's can be bought by ANYONE at ANYTIME in HUNDREDS of places!!!!!

Yes cheap power can "centralize" mining,but with GPU's that will take quite awhile longer than it did with ASIC's that were MAINLY sold in LARGE volumes to millionaire mining corporations or by the manufacturers themselves.

Who's naive?? Looks like it's you moron,Mr. knowitallbitcoinmineradviceman  Cheesy

Your new here so I'll be nice!!!  Wink

Respect gone for you sir, sad since you were a name I recognized and enjoyed reading. Hard to respect someone who resorts to name calling at the drop of a hat...

The best ASIC in the world is a Bitmain product and they sell them to the public. So everyone has access to ASIC's. Since when was access to ASICs the problem causing centralization? I got one first try..

Since I'm clearly not "MrKnowItAll" but a "moron", why don't you enlighten us on how we can stop mining centralization?


Wow so you REALLY bought one??? Easy as that??? I never knew...........

Stopping centralization can't be done now.....you ain't been around long enough to know how things were when ASICs first came out,it was then that ASICs were hard to get & getting ripped off was standard OP.

It's too late,but by all means keep buying faulty crap  Cheesy  

Bitmain is not best ASIC just one of a few that are available.....maybe the cheapest & most efficient but not the best,that right there shows your mentality  Roll Eyes

I don't need your respect or anyone's for that matter....I say what I want & if it hurts your wittle feewings than so be it....  Cheesy

"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day long, you are the asshole."  -Raylan Givens
Got GOXXED ?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KiqRpPiJAU&feature=youtu.be
"An ASIC being late is perfectly normal, predictable, and legal..."Hashfast & BFL slogan Smiley
VentMine
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 229
Merit: 100


View Profile
May 09, 2017, 11:17:47 PM
 #56

^^^

Guy still doesn't explain the solution or offer anything productive...

Must of been a lot of trolling for years to reach Legendary status... Legendary Troll it should read

1ESSdoVYKm8sNtYMfdkFBajhAe2e6G8keH
Pages: « 1 2 [3]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!