[2017-03-25]Why The Bitcoin Miners Are Destined To Lose The Hard Fork Wars

[Kemarit]

Why The Bitcoin Miners Are Destined To Lose The Hard Fork Wars


Excuse me for indulging myself, but there are many points of view towards what may be an impending hard fork for Bitcoin. This may come across as a loosely coherent ramble, but at least it is short and sweet. There is enough here to put it on wax, so here’s what I see, in the big picture.

This is in response to the Medium post created by Peter Rizun yesterday, outlining how this hard fork may play out, and essentially showing a way BTU wins, in the long run. (Roger Ver tweeted his support for this post, so I read it and posted most of these thoughts in the comments section, and here we are.)


In my humble opinion, the problem I see coming is if BCU breaks off, it will become an altcoin, as has been established by the Bitcoin exchange establishment. These miners can mine all the blocks they want, if the greater community doesn’t trust their developers, doesn’t want an altcoin, and isn’t buying BCU, it is irrelevant by design.

The market will decide who wins, and anybody who is not a miner wants to stick with Core and their chain. The miners are one thing, the market is something else. The miners might win a battle, but they would lose that war. They should keep that in mind.

Full Read Here: http://bitcoinist.com/why-bitcoin-miners-destined-to-lose-hard-fork-wars/

[1713999848]

1713999848

[1713999848]

1713999848

[1713999848]

1713999848

[engrhamza]

Whoever win or loose but first I want to know as a BTC buyer I am going to win or loose in long run.

[1Referee]

but first I want to know as a BTC buyer I am going to win or loose in long run.

In the long run everything will be just fine, but the short term can turn into a complete mess in case the chain split really happens. But the thing is, it's only speculation that doesn't hold much value as we speak. It's good that people look at the risks and everything, but it's unnecessary for anyone to over-exaggerate this whole situation. If I was to advice you in case you haven't bought any coin yet; If you happen to buy yourself a position into Bitcoin, then just make sure you have enough fiat aside that you can put into action, just in case. We might even test the $800 level within a week or so.

[Carlton Banks]

Whoever win or loose but first I want to know as a BTC buyer I am going to win or loose in long run.

"When there's blood in the streets, I buy"

I won't be repeating the name of the person who said it, it gets said too often.

[dreamhouse]

If there's a fork, not too bad for everyone who has bitcoins, as he will get both from either chain, so I'd say the total value won't be that different, if not higher.

[TraderTimm]

A better read of BU's incompetence and timeline of idiotic behavior:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/61bkqe/the_astounding_incompetence_negligence_and/

This is all you need to know about Ver and the rest of these fools.

[aso118]

If there's a fork, not too bad for everyone who has bitcoins, as he will get both from either chain, so I'd say the total value won't be that different, if not higher.

The problem comes when you have supporters of each branch start dumping the other coin. In the normal course, all of them will be holders. Due to the fork, you have these 'dumps' in both branches, and the price of both will drop sharply.

[numismatist]

The market will decide who wins, and anybody who is not a miner wants to stick with Core and their chain. The miners are one thing, the market is something else. The miners might win a battle, but they would lose that war. They should keep that in mind.

The devious question would be: Why aren't we all, everybody of us, no miners no more?
Just playing the devil's advocate here

[Arcteryx]

Someone on an exchange chatbox (trolling ) talking about locking their wallet before all the pools decide to do the hard fork.
It sounds as if there is some co ordination going on with this and people will know before it happens so to capitalize on it for their own greedy gains. 

[ImHash]

Money will speak after they see money is not going to be on their side they will back down they're not stupid to shoot themselves in the foot.
What do you think you'd wanted if you were them, one chain with growing community and confidence of people into the network or a network split in half while your half will die after a week or so? best thing is to stay in one chain and continue mining.
The whole forking thing is their new strategy to grab more cheap coins from weak hands.

[numismatist]

Someone on an exchange chatbox (trolling ) talking about locking their wallet before all the pools decide to do the hard fork.
It sounds as if there is some co ordination going on with this and people will know before it happens so to capitalize on it for their own greedy gains. 

Naw, you read them wrong. They meant storing their Bitcoins inside their own wallets doing nothing. It's the safest place on earth if some forkery fuckuppery happens. The BTCs on trade site aren't that safe. Site owners can decide upon the outcome you would hand over your future

[TraderTimm]

I highly doubt now that there will be a fork.

But people are correct that you need to have ownership of your private keys on devices you control to be safe. The worst place to "store" bitcoin would be exchanges.

This latest push will go the same way "Classic" and "XT" did, which was nowhere....

[maku]

I highly doubt now that there will be a fork.

But people are correct that you need to have ownership of your private keys on devices you control to be safe. The worst place to "store" bitcoin would be exchanges.

This latest push will go the same way "Classic" and "XT" did, which was nowhere....

Fork is still a possibility, well executed and seamless fork is nothing to be afraid of, it is split we want to avoid.

Some people are still running Bitcoin Classic nodes (1.96%) and XT (0.39%) even despite these two options are totally insignificant now.

[Carlton Banks]

I highly doubt now that there will be a fork.

But people are correct that you need to have ownership of your private keys on devices you control to be safe. The worst place to "store" bitcoin would be exchanges.

This latest push will go the same way "Classic" and "XT" did, which was nowhere....

Fork is still a possibility, good executed and seamless fork is nothing to be afraid of, it is split we want to avoid.

I think that 51% hashpower of BU miners and the BU emergent consensus mechanism could be used like a weapon to kill Bitcoin with kindness, like the gentle giant character in "Of Mice and Men". Or at least that's what the Unlimitards will say publicly.

If BU pushers can sybil attack the network with >51% BU nodes, and force a hard fork split with >51% hashrate, we may be a little screwed, as follows

• The sybil nodes vote for 1.01 MB
• BU miners mine 1.01MB block
• BTC chain elicits chain fork because >1MB
• BU miners mine <=1MB block
• BTC chain re-merges with BU chain, because >PoW
• BTC chain orphans every block since the 1st split
• BU miner mine 1.01 MB block
• Rinse and repeat

It's important to note, as long as BU wreckers control >51% of nodes, they can force the miners into a 1.01 MB > 1MB > 1.01 MB > 1MB dance in perpetuity. Bitcoin itself would be forced into an emergency hard fork if that happened, and it would almost certainly need to be a PoW change, unless there is a less disruptive solution.

And it need not be like that, if we can agree to a progressive PoW change and roll that out, before BU do something like this.

"But Carlton, why would Jihad and Vermin want to decimate confidence in Bitcoin and the whole cryptocoin field, throwing away their valuable BTC and ASICs?"

I can think of several $million reasons, some of which could include young pop stars sitting on Roger and Wu's faces, i.e. the sort of favours money alone can't buy.

[notthematrix]

If there's a fork, not too bad for everyone who has bitcoins, as he will get both from either chain, so I'd say the total value won't be that different, if not higher.

The problem comes when you have supporters of each branch start dumping the other coin. In the normal course, all of them will be holders. Due to the fork, you have these 'dumps' in both branches, and the price of both will drop sharply.

Well roger does not want to dump his bitcoin for bitcoins unlimited.
as we can see https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/61bkqe/the_astounding_incompetence_negligence_and/

and here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1836672.0;all

he does not believe in his own coin.
and that's very telling and should stop all discussion.

[macedoniantable]

They want to keep raising the price to send by BTC when an alternative is way cheaper then what they can do.
ETH to send is $0.02
So why they can ask for more when it can be done better at a cheaper rate is just beyond me to understand.
It is faster too I might infer to suggest you use this method of transit of your crypto sends instead of over fatted
BTC miners has become.

[TraderTimm]

They want to keep raising the price to send by BTC when an alternative is way cheaper then what they can do.
ETH to send is $0.02
So why they can ask for more when it can be done better at a cheaper rate is just beyond me to understand.
It is faster too I might infer to suggest you use this method of transit of your crypto sends instead of over fatted
BTC miners has become.

If you are equating the network security of a fledgling compute-coin with a massive attack surface to Bitcoin, which has been operating with significant uptime for years - I think you're sadly mistaken.

Using the current core client with its proper fee estimation code - there's no reason to juggle alt-coin alternatives to "save" time or money. Just pay the fee, it isn't such a big deal, lol.