F2Pool started signalling Segwit

[Lauda]

https://www.blocktrail.com/BTC/block/000000000000000001a04ace6390273bcecbe2b07603853987306c2c72723042
The weird part is that it is signalling so many things at once, besides BU! Is F2Pool trolling? Stay tuned for a follow-up list.

Note: It has also started signalling Segwit on LTC less than 1 hour ago.
According to the coinbase, they may be also signalling for BU.

[1714009688]

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[1714009688]

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[d5000]

I would like to believe that they are simply pragmatic Is the world really turning into a good one?

Anyway, good news, I think. As F2Pool is a very strong pool, they alone can bring Segwit signalling near 50% - and even some Unlimited supporters (Roger Ver) have stated that they would support it once it achieved support by the majority.

[Velkro]

The weird part is that it is signalling so many things at once, besides BU! Is F2Pool trolling? Stay tuned for a follow-up list.

I don't think its weird. F2Pool is pool for everybody, so it SHOULD represent views of as much people as it can.
They just doing it.

[Lauda]

I would like to believe that they are simply pragmatic Is the world really turning into a good one?

Here's another block (although it doesn't answer the question as to why they are signalling so many things; maybe they just support all of those):

Anyway, good news, I think. As F2Pool is a very strong pool, they alone can bring Segwit signalling near 50% - and even some Unlimited supporters (Roger Ver) have stated that they would support it once it achieved support by the majority.

We shall see whether Ver is a man of his word or not. It is clear that the supermajority of users, experts, and companies (economy) are in favor of Segwit and/or against BU.

[franckuestein]

-snip-
The weird part is that it is signalling so many things at once, besides BU! Is F2Pool trolling? Stay tuned for a follow-up list.
-snip-

occasional?
I really hope that they don't take this as a joke and if they really want to support segwit they'll continue signaling.

We'll see in the following blocks mined by F2Pool.

[Iranus]

They're really messing with everyone now.  If they actually start signalling for it it'll completely turn around the debate though - as soon as SegWit is over half most people will know that it's the solution to go with and its popularity will go way up.  Maybe it would even stop some of the annoying FUD and Ethereum peddling.

[unamis76]

Might not be that wierd. What if they do support all they signal for? Or maybe just want to give their users a voice just like Slush.

[-ck]

Well this is going to change things. F2pool is about 12% of the hashrate which pushes segwit to 39% (+/- the regular variance). It also pushes BU from 37 to 49%. However segwit signalling counts towards software activation whereas BU flagging doesn't really activate anything directly - and will terrify BU miners that they're effectively a sybil attack along with bitclubnetwork's BU flagging. If BU flagging gets to 51% and antpool comes through with their threat of activating BU blocks but f2pool and bitclubnetwork are just flagging their blocks for trolling then in fact they'll end up activating with a minority since 14+% may not actually follow them.

[Limx Dev]

https://www.blocktrail.com/BTC/block/000000000000000001a04ace6390273bcecbe2b07603853987306c2c72723042
The weird part is that it is signalling so many things at once, besides BU! Is F2Pool trolling? Stay tuned for a follow-up list.

Note: It has also started signalling Segwit on LTC less than 1 hour ago.
According to the coinbase, they may be also signalling for BU.

That is a good news. 

[Lauda]

occasional?
I really hope that they don't take this as a joke and if they really want to support segwit they'll continue signaling.

They're really messing with everyone now.  If they actually start signalling for it it'll completely turn around the debate though - as soon as SegWit is over half most people will know that it's the solution to go with and its popularity will go way up.  Maybe it would even stop some of the annoying FUD and Ethereum peddling.

Might not be that wierd. What if they do support all they signal for? Or maybe just want to give their users a voice just like Slush.

It seems that I was mistaken as I didn't check the Coinbase. I have already updated the OP (see ck's post); they seem to also be signalling BU. https://www.bitfire.io/blocks/459811 @unamis76 No, that is most certainly not the case (as in giving users a voice).

Well this is going to change things. F2pool is about 12% of the hashrate which pushes segwit to 39% (+/- the regular variance). It also pushes BU from 37 to 49%. However segwit signalling counts towards software activation whereas BU flagging doesn't really activate anything directly - and will terrify BU miners that they're effectively a sybil attack along with bitclubnetwork's BU flagging. If BU flagging gets to 51% and antpool comes through with their threat of activating BU blocks but f2pool and bitclubnetwork are just flagging their blocks for trolling then in fact they'll end up activating with a minority since 14+% may not actually follow them.

I'm not sure what to make out of this. Remember, right now it is April Fools' Day in China.

[-ck]

Well this is going to change things. F2pool is about 12% of the hashrate which pushes segwit to 39% (+/- the regular variance). It also pushes BU from 37 to 49%. However segwit signalling counts towards software activation whereas BU flagging doesn't really activate anything directly - and will terrify BU miners that they're effectively a sybil attack along with bitclubnetwork's BU flagging. If BU flagging gets to 51% and antpool comes through with their threat of activating BU blocks but f2pool and bitclubnetwork are just flagging their blocks for trolling then in fact they'll end up activating with a minority since 14+% may not actually follow them.

I'm not sure what to make out of this. Remember, right now it is April Fools' Day in China.

I am aware of that. My point is that activation of segwit happens from signalling. It doesn't necessarily from BU, which is something a lot of people don't get. On the other hand this won't remotely bring us close to activation threshold.

Either way I expect by April 2 they'll go back to signalling... nothing.

[AngryDwarf]

I'm not sure what to make out of this. Remember, right now it is April Fools' Day in China.

Yep, check his twitter feed. I think he was a bit miffed when BitClub Network started earlier.

[Quickseller]

April fools. Lol.

[Yakamoto]

It's interesting to see F2Pool starting to express some interest with Segwit, and I'm curious if there is going to be more pools following suit or if there's going to be more debating and/or solutions put forth before something is finally defined for the rest of the blockchain.

I assume that F2Pool signalled segwit for the first time now, since I don't remember if they did anything with it beforehand. Jog my memory if they've expressed interest before.

[AngryDwarf]

This guy likes to have a joke and keep us all guessing.

https://twitter.com/f2pool_wangchun/status/843754861757788160

https://twitter.com/f2pool_wangchun/status/847435526500007937

[FiendCoin]

I wouldn't read too much into this, if sincere he just wants to see bitcoin improved if not, he's trolling.

[iamnotback]

The weird part is that it is signalling so many things at once, besides BU! Is F2Pool trolling? Stay tuned for a follow-up list.

Note: It has also started signalling Segwit on LTC less than 1 hour ago.

Edit: According to the coinbase, they may be also signalling for BU.

I predicted this and explained my theory of why they are obfuscating on Bitcoin. Remember Litecoin SegWit activates with 75%, and Bitcoin with 95%.

It is quite clear what has been going on. The whales and miners are jockeying for maximum stake in the blockchain ecosystem, wherein Bitcoin remains the immutable master blockchain.

[unamis76]

@unamis76 No, that is most certainly not the case (as in giving users a voice).

Sorry, I wasn't aware that the pool in question doesn't have different stratum servers for people supporting different clients...

So, just read the most recent replies and I'm amazed... April's fools... For real?

Extremely unfortunate that big players in the community are just making serious matters look idiotic. This is an absolutely stupid thing to do. Signal support "for trolling"? Are miners forgetting their economic incentive for things to be stable? Apparently they don't value what they have at stake, which amazes me. This makes things look ridicule, they're just making fun of everything that's being discussed and all the stress out there. I think this is too serious to be an April's fool. I might be too inflexible, but this is just my opinion, so... Bitfinex made things worse with their "BTU" token thing, or whatever it's called, now the miners... Wasn't definitely expecting this.

[iamnotback]

So, just read the most recent replies and I'm amazed... April's fools... For real?

It is April 1 where I am in Asia.

We'll see how it plays out. Seems they want to play with us like a cat and mouse. But I think the economic reality is what it is.

[iamnotback]

This guy likes to have a joke and keep us all guessing.

https://twitter.com/f2pool_wangchun/status/843754861757788160

https://twitter.com/f2pool_wangchun/status/847435526500007937

He is not signaling multiple conflicting things on Litecoin. He is using the above obfuscation exactly as I predicted he would. The economic reality is:

https://twitter.com/f2pool_wangchun/status/846760903739551744

[unamis76]

It is April 1 where I am in Asia.

We'll see how it plays out. Seems they want to play with us like a cat and mouse. But I think the economic reality is what it is.

Yes, I'm aware that it is already April 1st on many timezones, however it didn't occur to me that an issue of this magnitude could give origin to an April's fools joke...

They want to play us and are playing themselves in the processes. If things go south for us, they go south for them too, and these mining pool operators have much, much more at stake than 90% of us... That's why I find all this really strange.

What you say in the end is a fact... The reality is what it is and an April fool definitely can't change that. But it can help disrupt reality a bit... It's like trying to make a fool out of everyone and throwing sand in our eyes.

[iamnotback]

If I am correct about my design, we (all humans) will get the last laugh, but it will take a while.

In the meantime, we have to deal within the reality that Satoshi gave us. And that is Bitcoin will remain immutable. So Litecoin is where we can have big blocks, SegWit, and LN.

Notice how F2Pool has used April fools as a way to signal SegWit on Litecoin but to make it seem like he wasn't serious because he signaled conflicting things on Bitcoin. He is serious about the signaling on Litecoin. He wants SegWit (look at his efforts on Syscoin to test out activation), but he doesn't want to create conflict with those on Bitcoin who know that we must keep small blocks on Bitcoin else we lose the equilibrium that Satoshi design. So he signaled nonsense on Bitcoin and signaled serious SegWit on Litecoin.

The miners are navigating opportunity costs and power structures that Satoshi's design enables. I agree the process is noisy. Noise is a result of the imperfect matching of fungible money and non-fungible knowledge value. I wrote about this extensively else where. Very abstract concepts.

[alani123]

Quite the April Fool's joke, I tell you. This goes to show how worthless of a political game signaling really is. Stick to the real thing!

[d5000]

Even if it seems it is only a April Fools' joke: Maybe it's a call to the community to be pragmatic. In the fashion of "don't be so stubborn, let's have a good laugh about that debate, let's push now for the best solution."

It seems that for F2Pool the best solution is Segwit, they have already stated many times that they will signal for it eventually.

[-ck]

It seems that for F2Pool the best solution is Segwit, they have already stated many times that they will signal for it eventually.

Really? I'd like to believe that but as far as I can see f2pool have always been evasive about elaborating definitively on their position. Do you have a reference for that?

[d5000]

It seems that for F2Pool the best solution is Segwit, they have already stated many times that they will signal for it eventually.

Really? I'd like to believe that but as far as I can see f2pool have always been evasive about elaborating definitively on their position. Do you have a reference for that?

You're right, they have been not totally clear about their intention. I was referring to statements like this one, where they state they will first signal Segwit for Litecoin and then evaluate if they can signal for Bitcoin, too.

It's obviously possible that those statements were a maneuver to gain time - a timeframe when they could maximize their profits a bit more because of the high transaction fees.

[centralbanksequalsbombs]

It seems that for F2Pool the best solution is Segwit, they have already stated many times that they will signal for it eventually.

Really? I'd like to believe that but as far as I can see f2pool have always been evasive about elaborating definitively on their position. Do you have a reference for that?

You're right, they have been not totally clear about their intention. I was referring to statements like this one, where they state they will first signal Segwit for Litecoin and then evaluate if they can signal for Bitcoin, too.

It's obviously possible that those statements were a maneuver to gain time - a timeframe when they could maximize their profits a bit more because of the high transaction fees.

Sure, activating segwit on litecoin, an ethereum iteration, or any altcoin, is something more acheivable and probably makes way better sense. You can throw in blocksize changes, incentive program changes, etc to these types of altcoins as well.

It doesnt make sense for any of this to be forced upon Bitcoin unless if your motive is to destroy Bitcoin. This post explains that: titled "Hacks & puppets & forks - how to destroy bitcoin": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1834310.0

[pooya87]

the bitcoin signalling is obviously an April fool joke since they are signalling everything! (not sure if it is a good joke though)

but i think the litecoin part is going to happen. https://twitter.com/SatoshiLite/status/847910867152719873 and i believe it will be a good thing to have it on litecoin first and move to bitcoin next.

[Quickseller]

It seems that for F2Pool the best solution is Segwit, they have already stated many times that they will signal for it eventually.

I have no inside information nor do I have a reference to this, as it is speculation.

I think that f2pool (and likely other smaller pools that have not signaled any proposal) will signal for whatever proposal that first gets some hashrate percentage above 50%, and as more pools signal for this proposal, other pools will be under additional pressure to signal for this proposal.

I would say that the time from 51% to activation will be very short for whatever scaling solution gets implemented.

[Xester]

https://www.blocktrail.com/BTC/block/000000000000000001a04ace6390273bcecbe2b07603853987306c2c72723042
The weird part is that it is signalling so many things at once, besides BU! Is F2Pool trolling? Stay tuned for a follow-up list.

Note: It has also started signalling Segwit on LTC less than 1 hour ago.
According to the coinbase, they may be also signalling for BU.

This is weird and in my opinion f2pool is trying to do some experiment as to what kind of core they will eventually use in their system. My friends made a joke about that and told me that f2pool will accept all those codes at once, they will divide the pool in different categories so they can accommodate all kind of miners who uses different kind of codes. I just simply told him that it is impossible to happen and probably later on they will post that kind of code will they support.

[Amph]

Quite the April Fool's joke, I tell you. This goes to show how worthless of a political game signaling really is. Stick to the real thing!

i would not be surprised if antpool signaling for BU is a part fo the today april fool, even if it happened way before it, because i can't believe they are going with bu, when i remember clearly that in the past no pool was going to support block that were more than 2MB

or that or must be some sort of buy cheap coin on the market, because mienrs are also traders, that can manipulate the market

[Variogam]

i would not be surprised if antpool signaling for BU is a part fo the today april fool, even if it happened way before it, because i can't believe they are going with bu, when i remember clearly that in the past no pool was going to support block that were more than 2MB

Your wrong, there is long time agreement with most pools to support up to 8 MB blocks, thats why F2pool signalled 8MB for so long

[AngryDwarf]

Either way I expect by April 2 they'll go back to signalling... nothing.

In the UK, an April fools prank must occur before midday, otherwise the joke is on you.

I assume all these little coin symbols people have acquired under their rank is bitcointalks fool's day joke?

[Lauda]

It seems different now, unless they managed to break Blocktrail:

[Quickseller]

It seems different now, unless they managed to break Blocktrail:

They are still signaling for BU, with an EC of 25 MB blocks

The coinbase of block 459872 can be decoded to:

[...]EB25/AD23/8M[...]

I assume that blocktrail is probably looking for "EB1" which signals BU with an EC of 1MB blocks.

[Sadlife]

It is hard to believe F2pool especially when today is april 1st.
But hope they continue signaling for segwit and the other pools start supporting one source code then finally we can have a consensus
Like to see how will BU respond to this.

The is question is why are they signalling many things ?

[iamnotback]

In the meantime, we have to deal within the reality that Satoshi gave us. And that is Bitcoin will remain immutable. So Litecoin is where we can have big blocks, SegWit, and LN.

Notice how F2Pool has used April fools as a way to signal SegWit on Litecoin but to make it seem like he wasn't serious because he signaled conflicting things on Bitcoin. He is serious about the signaling on Litecoin. He wants SegWit (look at his efforts on Syscoin to test out activation), but he doesn't want to create conflict with those on Bitcoin who know that we must keep small blocks on Bitcoin else we lose the equilibrium that Satoshi design. So he signaled nonsense on Bitcoin and signaled serious SegWit on Litecoin.

The miners are navigating opportunity costs and power structures that Satoshi's design enables. I agree the process is noisy. Noise is a result of the imperfect matching of fungible money and non-fungible knowledge value. I wrote about this extensively else where. Very abstract concepts.

This guy likes to have a joke and keep us all guessing.

https://twitter.com/f2pool_wangchun/status/843754861757788160

https://twitter.com/f2pool_wangchun/status/847435526500007937

He is not signaling multiple conflicting things on Litecoin. He is using the above obfuscation exactly as I predicted he would. The economic reality is:

https://twitter.com/f2pool_wangchun/status/846760903739551744

Can't you see what he is signaling?

Review those tweets again.

He is signaling:

1. Hey Bitcoin can't come to a consensus on any changes. This is a mess. I'll express my disgust with an April fools joke by signaling conflicting positions simultaneously.

2. I can't signal multiple conflicting options on Litecoin. Thus I am making a very strong implied message for those who aren't too dumb to see it.

Do you guys get it now? He is signaling that Bitcoin is a clusterfuck where the softfork can't be achieved. And he is signaling that Litecoin doesn't have the conflicting mess and he is ready and willing to activate SegWit on Litecoin if the consensus threshold of 75% is reached.

Litecoin's miners and whales have every incentive to activate SegWit so that the price goes back up to $50.

It will happen. And SegWit won't happen on Bitcoin.

He just explained it all to you, if you are paying attention.

[AngryDwarf]

<snip>

Looks like f2pool tried to push segwit activation on syscoin.

https://twitter.com/f2pool_wangchun/status/847493350072606724

If segwit is activated on altcoins, but not on bitcoin, do the altcoin developers know how to progress segwit? Could be a great way of lumbering altcoins with technical debt. (assuming segwit isn't forced activated)

[iamnotback]

<snip>

Looks like f2pool tried to push segwit activation on syscoin.

https://twitter.com/f2pool_wangchun/status/847493350072606724

If segwit is activated on altcoins, but not on bitcoin, do the altcoin developers know how to progress segwit?

Charlie Lee works for Coinbase. I presume Blockstream's bankster backers will realize they need to move forward and Litecoin provides them the easiest transition to do so, if they can't attain consensus for activating SegWit for Bitcoin. All affected parties will be forced to move in the path of least resistance.

Frankly I think it is quite dangerous to activate such radical changes to Bitcoin. Much better to activate on a lesser blockchain so if there are flaws and bugs then Bitcoin isn't as affected. Bitcoin needs to be stable and prioritize continuity, because it is intended to the gold standard of blockchain tokens.

LN is all about enabling private fractional reserve banking with centralized hubs. LN just doesn't scale otherwise (due to routing and other issues). That is probably why Blockstream received $70m in funding. Perhaps they thought they could hijack Bitcoin, but they will have to face the reality of the situation.

Ethereum will be shipping a beta of a LN clone soon named Raiden. So the pressure is mounting on Blockstream and also on everyone invested in Bitcoin. Seems to me that Litecoin is the best option available to all affected parties.

Perhaps Blockstream can sell the idea to themselves by keeping their options open to potentially migrate the new technologies to Bitcoin someday, while pushing forward on Litecoin as a testbed and also to get real world adoption underway asap.

It just makes all the sense to stop this squabbling and move on/forward. Our productive energies are best spent on evangelizing blockchains and not fighting amongst ourselves.

[AngryDwarf]

Charlie Lee works for Coinbase. I presume Blockstream's bankster backers will realize they need to move forward and Litecoin provides them the easiest transition to do so, if they can't attain consensus for activating SegWit for Bitcoin.

I thought it was BTCC now, but still in the DCG portfolio, so the same sentiment.

[franky1]

Charlie Lee works for Coinbase. I presume Blockstream's bankster backers will realize they need to move forward and Litecoin provides them the easiest transition to do so, if they can't attain consensus for activating SegWit for Bitcoin.

DCG which funds blockstream also funds BTCC (main pool involved with charlie lee(bobby lee owned) and was first to flag sgwit. DCG also funded coinbase..

they are one step ahead of you.

Frankly I think it is quite dangerous to activate such radical changes to Bitcoin. Much better to activate on a lesser blockchain so if there are flaws and bugs then Bitcoin isn't as affected. Bitcoin needs to be stable and prioritize continuity, because it is intended to the gold standard of blockchain tokens.

if there is a bug in core. then downgrading back down makes all them new blocks containing segwit transactions become 'anyoncanspends' .. yep segwit is not a safe thing to downgrade in an event of a bug either.

oh and remember is blockstream that want to kill PoW so blockstream having a bug and needing to downgrade is actually even more hassle again..
though blockstream activation uses an exploit to seem easy to activate. what it actually does AFTER activation to the data and everything is not as 'easy' to undo once done.

yet all thats needed for dynamics is just to stop making blocks over 1mb and make blocks at 1mb until fix. = less hassle

LN is all about enabling private fractional reserve banking with centralized hubs. LN just doesn't scale otherwise (due to routing and other issues). That is probably why Blockstream received $70m in funding. Perhaps they thought they could hijack Bitcoin, but they will have to face the reality of the situation.

Ethereum will be shipping a beta of a LN clone soon named Raiden. So the pressure is mounting on Blockstream and also on everyone invested in Bitcoin. Seems to me that Litecoin is the best option available to all affected parties.

im kinda wishing that blockstream just jump over to litecoin and make that their experiment before they go ubercorporate with hyperledger.

letting bitcoin go back to being independant and diverse

lets see how fast lauda deletes my post because it talks about his dear blockstream

[talkbitcoin]

If segwit is activated on altcoins, but not on bitcoin, do the altcoin developers know how to progress segwit? Could be a great way of lumbering altcoins with technical debt. (assuming segwit isn't forced activated)

there are at least 10 altcoins with talk of SegWit and a couple of them have already activated SegWit.
they are such random coins that i can not remember their names. let me do some search and if i found them i will update here.

edit: topic: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1777136.0 (looks like only 1, although i thought VertCoin activated it though!)

[AngryDwarf]

If segwit is activated on altcoins, but not on bitcoin, do the altcoin developers know how to progress segwit? Could be a great way of lumbering altcoins with technical debt. (assuming segwit isn't forced activated)

there are at least 10 altcoins with talk of SegWit and a couple of them have already activated SegWit.
they are such random coins that i can not remember their names. let me do some search and if i found them i will update here.

Groestlcoin is one that is active, but I am led to believe that the segwit wallet is not released yet, so these altcoin cloners have to be more than simple cloners if they are to progress with it.

[iamnotback]

Guys the reason it will be Litecoin and not another altcoin is because of the hypothesis that I explained where miners can make a shit load of money if Litecoin price goes up because the supply of ASICs is insufficient.

I don't see SegWit having a significant impact on Litecoin. I also suspect it's going to settle back into it's long-term $3.50-$4.50 range quickly after the Bitcoin "potential fork" issues get resolved - and I figure that resolution will also hammer current inflated pricing on most of the altcoins that have seen big rises the past month.

The market already knows the BU fork died. But the market knows that we need scaling else adoption will falter due to very high transaction fees and delayed transaction confirmations.

The miners are not going to enable SegWit on Bitcoin because they are making a lot of money by not doing so. Yet some of those same miners and ASIC manufacturers will make a hell of a lot more money by activating SegWit on Litecoin.

It's happening.

Thanks for making me aware of this:

Charlie Lee works for Coinbase. I presume Blockstream's bankster backers will realize they need to move forward and Litecoin provides them the easiest transition to do so, if they can't attain consensus for activating SegWit for Bitcoin.

DCG which funds blockstream also funds BTCC (main pool involved with charlie lee(bobby lee owned) and was first to flag sgwit. DCG also funded coinbase..

they are one step ahead of you.

[franky1]

Guys the reason it will be Litecoin and not another altcoin is because of the hypothesis that I explained where miners can make a shit load of money if Litecoin price goes up because the supply of ASICs is insufficient.

I don't see SegWit having a significant impact on Litecoin. I also suspect it's going to settle back into it's long-term $3.50-$4.50 range quickly after the Bitcoin "potential fork" issues get resolved - and I figure that resolution will also hammer current inflated pricing on most of the altcoins that have seen big rises the past month.

The market already knows the BU fork died. But the market knows that we need scaling else adoption will falter due to very high transaction fees and delayed transaction confirmations.

The miners are not going to enable SegWit on Bitcoin because they are making a lot of money by not doing so. Yet some of those same miners and ASIC manufacturers will make a hell of a lot more money by activating SegWit on Litecoin.

It's happening.

litecoin is not sha256 PoW. its Scrypt.

bitcoin miners wont gain anything mining asics for litecoin.. BTCC wins because they have warehouses of gpu's
segwit on litecoin and exchanges moving to concentrate on litecoin will set BTCC as the top main pool ready to gain top spot.

[iamnotback]

litecoin is not sha256 PoW. its Scrypt.

If you clicked my links, you would see I have written Scrypt multiple times when discussing Litecoin mining/ASICs.

bitcoin miners wont gain anything mining asics for litecoin.. BTCC wins because they have warehouses of gpu's
segwit on litecoin and exchanges moving to concentrate on litecoin will set BTCC as the top main pool ready to gain top spot.

The industry which is the Bitcoin miners is more or less the same industry which are the Litecoin miners. It is all intertwined.

That which you have written agrees with (supports) my hypothesis.

[franky1]

litecoin is not sha256 PoW. its Scrypt.

If you clicked my links, you would see I have written Scrypt multiple times when discussing Litecoin mining/ASICs.

bitcoin miners wont gain anything mining asics for litecoin.. BTCC wins because they have warehouses of gpu's
segwit on litecoin and exchanges moving to concentrate on litecoin will set BTCC as the top main pool ready to gain top spot.

The industry which is the Bitcoin miners is more or less the same industry which are the Litecoin miners. It is all intertwined.

That which you have written agrees with (supports) my hypothesis.

but thinking about for instance ANTPOOL which is sha256 asic. wont gain anything from litecoin because antpools equipment is not scrypt compatible.
btcc has a warehouse of sha asics for bitcoin and a warehouse for scrypt, so btcc is set, ready, and revving to go.
not "miners" as in miners in general/the whole industry.. just btcc..
so the "industry" which you say is bitcoin miners.. wont win..

bitcoin SHA ASIC miners are NOT intertwined with LN..

BTCC (single entity) is interwined not due to technology, but blood...
btcc Bobby lee...  litecoin charlie lee are brothers.

so its not a bitcoin mining industry thing can just mine litecoin thing.
its a BTCC will dominate litecoin due to already having its foot already in the door

...
PS
asic pools like antpool are making most profit on bitcoin because they manufacture asics.
sha is a simple thing to formulate into a chip. scrypt is not so much

so the real winner if litecoin picks up would be AMDATI and Nvidea

[iamnotback]

@franky1 those who manufacture Scrypt ASICs and those who have pre-ordered the new generation of Scrypt ASICs will also profit.

You might be correct that Antpool is the odd man out, but creating more demand for limited fab space probably means their existing stock of ASICs becomes more valuable. When mining farms for Bitcoin (or Litecoin) can't ramp up difficulty fast enough to keep up with price rises, then all existing miners earn more profit throughout the industry.

By eliminating the stalemate on Bitcoin by getting SegWit activated on Litecoin, this frees up Bitcoin to move to $2000+ because scaling will be provided by the ecosystem. And I already explained in the other thread that the tail doesn't wag the dog in finance, thus scaling on Litecoin will drive demand for Bitcoin up by the power brokers who must use Bitcoin (because of the reasons I stated).

I am not sure how Bitcoin traders will initially react to scaling going exclusively to Litecoin, maybe they might sell Bitcoin, but later they will come to understand that Bitcoin grows as its altcoins grow. The ecosystem is symbiotic. MPEx the Bitcoin options and stock exchange was capturing a percentage of all the speculation waves in all altcoin tokens, not just Bitcoin.

the $50 will come down to the Chinese and how they will perform in the following days. it has always been like this.
remember the LTC halving pump? liteocin was on a good path up and suddenly someone over in China let lose of the bags on the market and crushed the price as if they don't know why a slow sell to get most profit means!

but so far we are good and the rise seems to be starting. hope to see LTC go higher, it really deserves it more than the rest of them.

Litecoin offered no compelling need to exist before the SegWit impasse. Now it has a very, very important reason to exist.

Chinaman mining industry was keeping Litecoin low to prevent any serious competition to Bitcoin, and to prepare to have the power that they have now to incentivize activation of compelling protocol changes by allowing the LTC price to rise which causes ASIC demand to outstrip supply. I explained the dynamics upthread. The mining industry makes a huge profit with this move. The Chinaman is a chess player.

Re-reading all my posts (and clicking all links in posts) in this thread and the other thread, will bring holistic understanding.

[iamnotback]

My stance is get on the train before it is too late. SegWit support at 57% and climbing. Activates at 75%.

[felipehermanns]

Wtf... bu 50% hashrate.. man. This shit is getting big. Why ppl still supporting this crap bugged coin. Fck this man. Want to throw 8 years of Bitcoin in the trashcan becouse this mofo roger ver and his comunist friends. Nice one who support this crap

[iamnotback]

sha is a simple thing to formulate into a chip. scrypt is not so much

Fyi, if you've seen my (clone @TPTB_need_war's) discussions with @tromp (last public discussion in the Ethereum Paradox thread), you'd realize I know a fair amount about Scrypt, memory hard PoW, and ASCII-resistant PoW designs. I've investigated my own designs as well.

Nevertheless both @tromp and I admit we are not chip technology experts.


QUESTION: will a higher LTC price suck GPU hashrate from ETH or is there sufficient supply of GPUs? If yes, then even Ethereum's miners might be in support of the Litecoin activation of SegWit. Why would BTCC mine LTC with their GPUs otherwise.

BTCC wins because they have warehouses of gpu's

[-ck]

Wtf... bu 50% hashrate.. man. This shit is getting big.

Don't worry, 15% of that is troll signalling for BU. If they activate BU based on that when it gets to 51% they'll end up creating a smaller fork and end up repeatedly reorganising their chain back to the real bitcoin one and invalidating all BU blocks.

[iamnotback]

Low power Scrypt ASIC is out of stock!

[iamnotback]

QUESTION: will a higher LTC price suck GPU hashrate from ETH or is there sufficient supply of GPUs? If yes, then even Ethereum's miners might be in support of the Litecoin activation of SegWit. Why would BTCC mine LTC with their GPUs otherwise.

BTCC wins because they have warehouses of gpu's

Okay so Litecoin has 58% of SegWit signaling without BTCC's help. Yet Bobby Lee created BTCC because of his brother Charlie Lee. I think we can expect BTCC take some GPU hashrate away from ETH and/or ETC, to push SegWit to activation at 75% support and keep it there while the support for SegWit solidifies for the inevitable economic reason I have explained. They will be losing money on the LTC mining with GPUs, but gaining overall in the strategic sense. Remember BTCC is also involved with Scrypt mining so their profitability on that will increase as a result of a much higher LTC price. The GPUs are probably their least valuable asset that is closest to end of life, so they'd probably sacrifice it, especially given Vitalik is planning on changing the consensus algorithm to PoS.

Thus I now feel this is virtually a sure thing and have dumped my ETH in exchange for LTC. I don't want to be holding ETH if BTCC removes hashrate from ETH and/or ETC.

[-ck]

And f2pool has gone back to signalling nothing, confirming its BTC signalling was nothing more than an April fool's joke.

It's signalling version 0x20000004 and saying /EXTBLK/... anyone know what that is?

[iamnotback]

confirming

How is that confirmation of anything?

The economics will rule.

Perhaps they want to make some money by seeing how many LTC traders will dump back to them. Sell high, buy low is what they doing.

Or other chess moves going on behind the scenes.

I've read the F2Pool long ago said they would support SegWit on Litecoin, but just in any definite timeframe.

Of course they have to maximize their profits and strategy along the way.

A chart communicates more effectively than 1000 words...

That chart is clearly indicating that Bitcoin can't move higher until Litecoin catches up.

[-ck]

confirming

How is that confirmation of anything?

The economics will rule.

Perhaps they want to make some money by seeing how many LTC traders will dump back to them. Sell high, buy low is what they doing.

Or other chess moves going on behind the scenes.

I've read the F2Pool long ago said they would support SegWit on Litecoin, but just in any definite timeframe.

Of course they have to maximize their profits and strategy along the way.

What the hell are you talking about? Are you still talking about litecoin? There is no doubt their BTC signalling was an April fool's trolling since they signalled every proposal for April 1st only.

[iamnotback]

What the hell are you talking about? Are you still talking about litecoin? There is no doubt their BTC signalling was an April fool's trolling since they signalled every proposal for April 1st only.

I thought you were referring to Litecoin. So I take it now you are referring to them not signaling on Bitcoin. Got it.

I don't care that they stopped doing nonsense on the Bitcoin signaling. It was all nonsense any way.

[-ck]

What the hell are you talking about? Are you still talking about litecoin? There is no doubt their BTC signalling was an April fool's trolling since they signalled every proposal for April 1st only.

I thought you were referring to Litecoin. So I take it now you are referring to them not signaling on Bitcoin. Got it.

That's what I said "confirming its BTC signalling", and last I checked this is the bitcoin discussion section of the bitcointalk forums.

[iamnotback]

and last I checked this is the bitcoin discussion section of the bitcointalk forums.

As if the Litecoin situation isn't intimately tied into what is happening with Bitcoin.

As I said, I don't even know why you would bother to report about the BTC signaling nonsense. Nothing SegWit or large block related will happen on Bitcoin.

Don't miss your uppityunity Mr. Staff.

[-ck]

As I said, I don't even know why you would bother to report about the BTC signaling nonsense.

...Because that's what this thread was about 

[iamnotback]

As I said, I don't even know why you would bother to report about the BTC signaling nonsense.

...Because that's what this thread was about  

Was it.

Who ever mines BU will lose all the money they spent on mining it. So that 50% threshold means nothing. Any fork of Bitcoin will be attacked ruthlessly by those who have enough resources to destroy any miners foolish enough to try.

The large miners/pools know this. The April's fool joke is on anyone who believes that signaling means anything on Bitcoin. It doesn't.

The Litecoin signaling was the information today. The other stuff was noise.

[-ck]

As I said, I don't even know why you would bother to report about the BTC signaling nonsense.

...Because that's what this thread was about  

Was it.

Who ever mines BU will lose all the money they spent on mining it. So that 50% threshold means nothing. Any fork of Bitcoin will be attacked ruthlessly by those who have enough resources to destroy any miners foolish enough to try.

The large miners/pools know this. The April's fool joke is on anyone who believes that signaling means anything on Bitcoin. It doesn't.

The Litecoin signaling was the information today. The other stuff was noise.

...Sheesh.

It's signalling version 0x20000004 and saying /EXTBLK/... anyone know what that is?

So yes there is something else going on which I'm trying to get an answer to but you keep talking about litecoin. And no, not everyone wants every bitcoin thread derailed by a discussion regarding litecoin news.

[quake313]

April fools over, f2pool stopped signaling SegWit, back to nothing.

Wang Chun is a helluva troll.

[-ck]

April fools over, f2pool stopped signaling SegWit, back to nothing.

Not quite, they're signalling something but I can't make out what it means.

It's signalling version 0x20000004 and saying /EXTBLK/... anyone know what that is?

I don't see any reference to bit 3 for BIP009 nor EXTBLK's meaning.

[iamnotback]

April fools over, f2pool stopped signaling SegWit, back to nothing.

Wang Chung is a helluva troll.

That is what fools will think. Please don't bother to read my posts, you might actually learn something new.

[iamnotback]

So yes there is something else going on which I'm trying to get an answer to but you keep talking about litecoin. And no, not everyone wants every bitcoin thread derailed by a discussion regarding litecoin news.

Do you think he signaled Litecoin as an April fool's joke also?

Why don't you try to open your eyes to the big picture.

[-ck]

Do you think he signaled Litecoin as an April fool's joke also?

No. Why are you assuming what level of importance I'm placing on the litecoin behaviour? My issue is you keep derailing this thread away from the bitcoin signalling discussion.

[iamnotback]

Do you think he signaled Litecoin as an April fool's joke also?

No. Why are you assuming what level of importance I'm placing on the litecoin behaviour? My issue is you keep derailing this thread away from the bitcoin signalling discussion.

My issue is you are derailing the thread from relevant discussion of today's event to nonsense discussion. But Mr. Wong intended for the fools to waste their time on the noise. And for the smart to focus on the information. It was a test, and you are failing the test.

Note the OP mentions the Litecoin signaling. So please stop play uppity politics Mr. Staff. Sorry if your control-freak ego is hurt. So do you want to do censorship now.

Now you are really taking the thread far off course in more needless squabbling.

[tobacco123]

I basically disconnect from internet on 1st April to ignore all the stupid jokes. Let wait another 24 hours to see if F2Pool still signal Segwit or switch to BU. I guess Chun is also bored by the debate  

[megynacuna]

I basically disconnect from internet on 1st April to ignore all the stupid jokes. Let wait another 24 hours to see if F2Pool still signal Segwit or switch to BU. I guess Chun is also bored by the debate  

I thought people had stopped appreciating April fools day and so we were free of these internet nonsense and gimmicks but as it turns out they played us with something even more serious so I agree let's wait for the 24 hours to find out about the authenticity of the signaling.

[-ck]

Do you think he signaled Litecoin as an April fool's joke also?

No. Why are you assuming what level of importance I'm placing on the litecoin behaviour? My issue is you keep derailing this thread away from the bitcoin signalling discussion.

My issue is you are derailing the thread from relevant discussion of today's event to nonsense discussion. But Mr. Wong intended for the fools to waste their time on the noise. And for the smart to focus on the information. It was a test, and you are failing the test.

Note the OP mentions the Litecoin signaling. So please stop play uppity politics Mr. Staff. Sorry if your control-freak ego is hurt. So do you want to do censorship now.

Now you are really taking the thread far off course in more needless squabbling.

You win, I'll put you on ignore and go looking elsewhere for what their bitcoin signalling change means... or just continue the discussion here since I won't have to see you humping my leg like an excited dog in heat about your litecoin signalling discussion; I get it - you're excited because litecoin will be stronger than the foundations of the earth and worth quadrillions of dollars and make you richer than your wildest dreams as a result.

Now for those interested, clearly f2pool used the trolling opportunity from April 1st as a way to lead into some other kind of protest or flag that remains cryptic until they post something else on their twitter. Unless someone already knows what they mean?

[iamnotback]

go looking elsewhere for what their bitcoin signalling change means...

I already told you it means anyone who cares about it is a Bitard maximalist idiot who doesn't understand:

F2pool is signalling many things including segwit and BU

Not on Litecoin. F2Pool is only signaling SegWit on Litecoin.

They seem to be testing which code is best for their system. I personally think that there is no need for a fork what we need is to upgrade and secure the bitcoin protocol then how the blocks delay should be fix.

That is what ignorant fools believe.

The signaling on Bitcoin is a diversion designed to fool you (so they can laugh at Bitard maximalists who don't comprehend that Bitcoin will prosper only if Litecoin gets SegWit). The smart people are looking at Litecoin. Nothing will happen on Bitcoin. Nothing.

[-ck]

Now for those interested, clearly f2pool used the trolling opportunity from April 1st as a way to lead into some other kind of protest or flag that remains cryptic until they post something else on their twitter. Unless someone already knows what they mean?

Now they've dropped the EXTBLK in their signature but still maintain bit 3 enabled with version 0x20000004. Interestingly they still have the OP_RETURN in their coinbase consistent with segwit.

[pooya87]

Now for those interested, clearly f2pool used the trolling opportunity from April 1st as a way to lead into some other kind of protest or flag that remains cryptic until they post something else on their twitter. Unless someone already knows what they mean?

Now they've dropped the EXTBLK in their signature but still maintain bit 3 enabled with version 0x20000004. Interestingly they still have the OP_RETURN in their coinbase consistent with segwit.

is this it?:
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-May/008356.html

[divinemaniac]

Maybe it was an early April's Fool Joke XD

[NemJoker]

Nope. This is legit. LTC segwit activated to be expected soon.

[-ck]

is this it?:
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-May/008356.html

Thanks for that. I wasn't aware of that proposal and it looks consistent with the name in their coinbase. There has only been some discussion surrounding it as far as I can see as a counterargument to main block extension in BU here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/61eaag/proposal_extension_blocks_as_sf/

I don't see any significant momentum for such a feature nor any code to support it at the moment, and f2pool have dropped that from their signature. Perhaps that was the one remaining proposal they hadn't gotten around to including in their april fool's joke Anyway they still have the bit 3 set and the OP_RETURN from segwit in their coinbase. Perhaps they just want to keep us guessing...

[Rahar02]

I would like to believe that they are simply pragmatic Is the world really turning into a good one?

Here's another block (although it doesn't answer the question as to why they are signalling so many things; maybe they just support all of those):

Anyway, good news, I think. As F2Pool is a very strong pool, they alone can bring Segwit signalling near 50% - and even some Unlimited supporters (Roger Ver) have stated that they would support it once it achieved support by the majority.

We shall see whether Ver is a man of his word or not. It is clear that the supermajority of users, experts, and companies (economy) are in favor of Segwit and/or against BU.

As F2Pool has signaling for many things maybe to please everyone, just check and BU reach 40,1% but SegWit 30.5% on https://coin.dance/blocks. Wondering how long it take for one of those will be the chosen one? Could it be this year? Still waiting wherever it will lead to, but I'm still thinking they (miners, who signaling for BU) just spin out time to get more higher fees from plenteous unconfirmed transaction.

[Lauda]

Now for those interested, clearly f2pool used the trolling opportunity from April 1st as a way to lead into some other kind of protest or flag that remains cryptic until they post something else on their twitter. Unless someone already knows what they mean?

Now they've dropped the EXTBLK in their signature but still maintain bit 3 enabled with version 0x20000004. Interestingly they still have the OP_RETURN in their coinbase consistent with segwit.

In other words, it is no longer counting towards Segwit activation?

As F2Pool has signaling for many things maybe to please everyone, just check and BU reach 40,1% but SegWit 30.5% on https://coin.dance/blocks.

Don't use that biased website.

Wondering how long it take for one of those will be the chosen one? Could it be this year? Still waiting wherever it will lead to, but I'm still thinking they (miners, who signaling for BU) just spin out time to get more higher fees from plenteous unconfirmed transaction.

There's nothing to choose from. The users and economic majority do not want the altcoin BTU.

[iamTom123]

I would like to believe that they are simply pragmatic Is the world really turning into a good one?

Here's another block (although it doesn't answer the question as to why they are signalling so many things; maybe they just support all of those):

Anyway, good news, I think. As F2Pool is a very strong pool, they alone can bring Segwit signalling near 50% - and even some Unlimited supporters (Roger Ver) have stated that they would support it once it achieved support by the majority.

We shall see whether Ver is a man of his word or not. It is clear that the supermajority of users, experts, and companies (economy) are in favor of Segwit and/or against BU.

Personally, I am more inclined towards SegWit than BU. And there is now a mounting consensus that it might really be SegWit that will take the prize for now though we don't know what will the future brings as this will not be the first that a problem can occur on Bitcoin as it continues to evolved and get into the mainstream. I am one of the many who are afraid of the BU scenario lol. Hope this thing can get resolved soon for the best interest of all stakeholders.

[-ck]

Now they've dropped the EXTBLK in their signature but still maintain bit 3 enabled with version 0x20000004. Interestingly they still have the OP_RETURN in their coinbase consistent with segwit.

In other words, it is no longer counting towards Segwit activation?

Yes that's correct, but I'm wondering why they left in the segwit compatible coinbase... here's hoping they're actually planning to signal it for real in the not too distant future.

[iamnotback]

While some of you waste your time trying to figure out what all the irrelevant noise of signaling on Bitcoin doesn't mean, the reality is something that will require re-orienting your thinking.

Bitcoin will never scale without Litecoin. No significant protocol changes will ever be made to Bitcoin. Bitcoiners need to get this nailed into their thick skulls. Read the following:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1663070.msg18424568#msg18424568

Bitcoin will achieve maximum value by enabling SegWit on Litecoin. There is no other option going forward. The above linked post explains why in detail.

Bitcoin was designed by Satoshi such that the vested interests would be that no one can change the protocol. No change is ever coming to Bitcoin. The sooner you realize this, the sooner we can get unstuck from the mud. Those of you who continue to facilitate this illusion of change coming to Bitcoin's protocol are obstacles in the way of progress.

Altcoins are good competitors to Bitcoin and I think it just needs it.

Incorrect. Most of the speculation value from altcoins ends up in BTC, not in the altcoins. Altcoins are complementary to BTC. The reason BTC percentage of market cap is diving lately is because Bitcoiners are trying to force protocol changes to Bitcoin, instead of doing it on Litecoin, and so no progress is being made at all. Stuck in the mud.

Bitcoiners need to re-orient their thinking. Read my prior post and click the link and read more.

[K128kevin2]

and even some Unlimited supporters (Roger Ver) have stated that they would support it once it achieved support by the majority.

Do you have a source for that?

[unamis76]

I see F2pool went from April's fool signaling to no signaling at all. Funny thing is, they're trolling themselves as much (or even more) than they're trolling us. They just did a disservice to everyone.

As F2Pool has signaling for many things maybe to please everyone, just check and BU reach 40,1% but SegWit 30.5% on https://coin.dance/blocks.

Don't use that biased website.

Is there an alternative for coin.dance?

[BrewMaster]

Is there an alternative for coin.dance?

many of the block explorers show similar stats (no charts in most of them) for example the screenshot posted by Lauda seems to be from the block explorer called Blocktrail (https://www.blocktrail.com/BTC)

signalling is just adding a string to the coinbase transaction or the block version. you can even get the block hex and see it yourself.

[-ck]

So here's the answer to the mystery F2pool version 3 soft bit signalling and EXTBLK signature: Extension blocks indeed as mentioned by others with a soft fork associated with it.

http://www.coindesk.com/purse-proposal-touts-extension-blocks-bitcoin-scaling-solution/

[Lauda]

So here's the answer to the mystery F2pool version 3 soft bit signalling and EXTBLK signature: Extension blocks indeed as mentioned by others with a soft fork associated with it.

http://www.coindesk.com/purse-proposal-touts-extension-blocks-bitcoin-scaling-solution/

Let's say they want to deploy some SF in 'secret'. The question that presents itself is, how dangerous can a miner activated soft fork be?

[-ck]

Let's say they want to deploy some SF in 'secret'. The question that presents itself is, how dangerous can a miner activated soft fork be?

Well that's an interesting question. Theoretically if they activate their soft fork rules and make their extblock blocks, the blocks should still appear to be valid to the rest of the network with some kind of non-standard transactions that are not understood by regular nodes? But will we be able to build on those blocks or not until there is another 'standard' block?

As it stands the code for extblocks is apparently public though and - funnily enough - quite complex... It's also my understanding that extblocks are easy to implement with segwit ironically. The article I referenced said that quite a few miners already support the proposal but who knows wtf that really means. It's almost like they just want a miner created option that is neither core nor BU.

[Lauda]

Let's say they want to deploy some SF in 'secret'. The question that presents itself is, how dangerous can a miner activated soft fork be?

Well that's an interesting question. Theoretically if they activate their soft fork rules and make their extblock blocks, the blocks should still appear to be valid to the rest of the network with some kind of non-standard transactions that are not understood by regular nodes? But will we be able to build on those blocks or not until there is another 'standard' block?

My question wasn't directed towards extension blocks in specific, but was rather more general. How dangerous could a *secretly* miner activated soft fork actually be?

As it stands the code for extblocks is apparently public though and - funnily enough - quite complex... It's also my understanding that extblocks are easy to implement with segwit ironically. The article I referenced said that quite a few miners already support the proposal but who knows wtf that really means. It's almost like they just want a miner created option that is neither core nor BU.

Here's an old post as to why Extension blocks aren't a good idea: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-January/013510.html

[-ck]

My question wasn't directed towards extension blocks in specific, but was rather more general. How dangerous could a *secretly* miner activated soft fork actually be?

I actually don't feel qualified to give a definitive answer on that. Not giving core time to act on anticipated changes to the network and dumping a 51+% attack on it (effectively) has got to be potentially very dangerous. On the other hand I'd be hard pressed to imagine sinister motives from miners who have an incentive for the network to keep working properly to knowingly harm the network. A coordinated control attempt on the network with their own future vision is possible though, but I doubt there would be universal agreement to keep such a change secret by all mining parties.

[Quickseller]

The miners can collectively decide to censor any particular described transaction that they wish, and can also orphan any block that contain said described transaction. To anyone that is not aware of this "softfork", it will appear that the miners simply have not chosen to confirm said described transactions, and that any of the blocks that contain said described transactions just so happened to get orphaned. Users of the network are implicitly trusting the miners as they have this ability. This is also why softforks in general are not a good idea.

[iamnotback]

It crossed 70% now!

About 1951 GH/s, or 70.4% of the network (352 out of the last 500 blocks).

The above is for the blocks in the past 21 hours, so it is slightly forward looking as compared to the 24 hour requirement.

The huge jump in price will be when the Bitcoiners realize that Bitcoin is never going to get scaling, thus they won't be able to transact any more on Bitcoin (will be too expensive) and thus Litecoin will become the transaction coin that everybody is using. This still hasn't sunk into their hard heads yet.

[Lauda]

Round 2?


I really can't trust the actions of the pool owner anymore. This may be another attempt at trolling.

[Quickseller]

Round 2?


I really can't trust the actions of the pool owner anymore. This may be another attempt at trolling.

If you follow his twitter, you will be able to reasonably conclude that he was extorted into signaling for SegWit.