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Author Topic: [RESOLVED] BetOpen.co stole 5.97 BTC because of 'fraudulent' activities  (Read 1134 times)
M0w
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April 04, 2017, 05:00:34 PM
 #1

Announcement thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1812350.0
User involved: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=958484

This accusation has already been discussed in the announcement thread of BetOpen.co, I will quote the most important messages from that discussion.

Quick summary of the accusation: BetOpen.co accused me of fraudulent activities, claiming I placed bets during or after matches have already finished but fails to provide any evidence.

My first post where I stated the issue:

Alright, I didn't really want to do this but the BetOpen.co support is leaving me no choice.

The BetOpen.co staff just confiscated my entire balance of 5.97 BTC:



Apparently this happened because I won 21 out of 23 bets on a single day (March 26th) as you can see in the e-mail reply I got when I asked why my withdrawal was taking longer than usual:



A few days passed but I got no reply, as I'm quite sure no fraudulent activities took place I sent them a reminder and I got the following reply:



Again, there is no proof in their response that I somehow cheated, I simply got lucky that day, that's all.

I sent them an e-mail back that I was willing to compromise on their offer so that they could leave like 2 BTC in my account so I could continue gambling on their site, unfortunately they are not willing to do this:



I replied that the amount of 9 - 10 BTC is obviously wrong since they forgot to withdraw the stake from the winnings and that my winnings that day were actually a lot less:



They can take my winnings from that day so I can keep playing with the rest of my balance but they are no longer responding.

I really hope BetOpen will come up with a solution because I don't like going trough channels like this forum to solve an issue.



First reply from BetOpen.co, once again failing to provide any evidence:

Player just "forgot" to mention that he got successfull withdrawals before. His account was flagged as fraudalent by our system and team, as an example was shown his performance during the day with winnings of 21 consecutive tickets with a chance of 0.00024% (percent) with the same bet types (yeah, just lucky). After this player started to "trade", wants to reset all winnings by the day (so admits that bets were fraudalent generally). Our policy as well as on any other sportsbook is suspension/closure of any account that is set as fraudalent. We just wanted to give this user the ability to continue playing honestly, so offered him not closing the account fully. After this he started to threatening by posting on this forum etc. Of course he lightened all as we are bad, and he is just honest lucky guy. But if you want you can check that absolutely all withdrawals of our players were payed, and this is the only case of complain of this kind.
We don't want to start some spamming discussion in this topic, as it is dedicated for news and updates about the platform, so we will not continue the discussion regarding this case, that's it.

The rest of the discussion:

Correct, you did pay the withdrawals I requested before you flagged my account. The total amount of my withdrawals was roughly the same as the amount I deposited in total.

However, you flagged my account for fraudulent activity, but you NEVER provided any proof at all. The reason I suggested you just reset my winnings from that day is because I unfortunately have some experience with bookmakers not willing to pay out because I won some money. I rather leave with something than nothing of course.

Imagine going to the casino and playing roulette and winning 20 consecutive spins in a row. And then all of a sudden the casino decides you are a fraud and takes all your winnings without providing any kind of proof.

I'm sorry but the only fraud here is you because you refuse to pay out a winner.

Edit:

Also, this is another reply where you simply refer to your ToS without providing any info. Life as a bookmaker must be easy. In case of a winner you simply take his funds and close the discussion...

So again, regarding mow case...

His account was flagged with fraud/suspicious activity, because on that day vulnerability were present on our website(it were fixed by dev team the day later). We can't provide the technical details of the issue (due to security reasons).
As an example of the outcome of this vulnerability for this user, we could show more detailed view on his bets.

2 days before the issue were active: Won - 7, Lost - 10
The day before : Won - 8, Lost - 7

On the day issue were active :
WON - 21(same sport and bet type), Lost - 2. Probability - 0.00024%, which means average user will need to place same amount of bets for 416667 days (1141 years) to 100% achieve the same result

1 day after issue was fixed: Won - 3, Lost - 2
2 days after issue was fixed: Won - 1, Lost - 3.

After the investigation by the team, account status were set as fraudalent/taken advantage of the platform and by our T&Cs (and any other sporstbook) we should have just close it. But we decided to offer user the ability to play honestly by reseting the balance(our mistake). After this user starts to trade and threaten us by arguing on this forum. Of course here he says that we are bad and he were just super hugely "lucky" on the day of vulnerability happened.

By the way, user have also received 200mB bonus before and have successfully withdrawed more than he deposited.



Once again I have seen no proof that I actually cheated. You only mention some vulnerability that I used?

Please provide more info (via pm or email). Also, like I already suggested in my email, just take away my winnings from that day and return the other funds that were also in my account, which I won during other days were I supposedly didn't cheat using your so called vulnerabilities

Also, my account is now completely closed by BetOpen, meaning I have no possibilities to show the bets I placed and prove my innocence

So again, regarding mow case...

His account was flagged with fraud/suspicious activity, because on that day vulnerability were present on our website(it were fixed by dev team the day later). We can't provide the technical details of the issue (due to security reasons).
As an example of the outcome of this vulnerability for this user, we could show more detailed view on his bets.

2 days before the issue were active: Won - 7, Lost - 10
The day before : Won - 8, Lost - 7

On the day issue were active :
WON - 21(same sport and bet type), Lost - 2. Probability - 0.00024%, which means average user will need to place same amount of bets for 416667 days (1141 years) to 100% achieve the same result

1 day after issue was fixed: Won - 3, Lost - 2
2 days after issue was fixed: Won - 1, Lost - 3.

After the investigation by the team, account status were set as fraudalent/taken advantage of the platform and by our T&Cs (and any other sporstbook) we should have just close it. But we decided to offer user the ability to play honestly by reseting the balance(our mistake). After this user starts to trade and threaten us by arguing on this forum. Of course here he says that we are bad and he were just super hugely "lucky" on the day of vulnerability happened.

By the way, user have also received 200mB bonus before and have successfully withdrawed more than he deposited.


All of this so called proofs are assumptions only, which means it doesnt prove anything,
The percetage you are telling where you based your judgement which is 0.00024% is bullshit. One fact and explanation on that is the powerball lottery where the chance of winning is 0.00000057%, and still there is someone winning it.

The percentage is calculated correctly, i think you forgot that powerball lottery sells hundreds of millions of tickets before win happens, we don't operate such amounts.
You can see the basic tickets info on the last page, but more details will not give additional proof, because tickets info (like time) also were affected by the issue. Issue were related to server time zones, and gave ability to place pre-game bets during and after the game, that's all that we can safely disclose/show. We can't give backend/server details.
And we won't change the decision about this case. So i hope we stop meaningful discussion about it.
We're distributed globally.

Again, I ask them for any real evidence:

Okay, so I placed bets during and after the games had ended? I highly doubt that I did that and even if I did it was not intentional.

Please show me the bets with timestamp which were wrong in your eyes.

Which they fail to show, once again:

Okay, so I placed bets during and after the games had ended? I highly doubt that I did that and even if I did it was not intentional.

Please show me the bets with timestamp which were wrong in your eyes.

This is violation of the rules, punished as described in T&Cs so intention doesn't matter.
As i said above, timestamps were also affected by the issue and weren't saved correctly. And we can not disclose backend/server info.

Haha okay, so you say I placed bets during and after the games but cannot back this up with any evidence. Sounds like a lot of bullshit to me to be honest.

Why will you not just reset my winnings from that day?

But there was NO fraudulent activity like I already told you.

You claim there is but cannot even provide any evidence and just come up with random facts

You still owe me at least 2 Bitcoin if you remove the winnings from that day.

Untill this is sorted out I will advice everybody to stay away from this site because they will refuse to pay any big winners


Why will you not just reset my winnings from that day?

Any fraud usage is punished by closure of the account (and also you've used the fraudalent obtained coins to increase the balance more and counting them as fair), we just offered you ability to continue betting honestly by keeping account active, which you denied.

Lets stop the discussion, as said before we won't change our decision.
If we wanted just to keep your coins, we could block account without any explanations, discussions and chats here as other sportsbooks do. But you will never see any feedback like that from our users, your case is the only one with this kind of issue. So any blames to us about "scam" that were brought before are empty and unfair.

I will update this post if any new information comes up, I the mean time I suggest everybody to stay away from this site.

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maiiyeuvo
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April 04, 2017, 05:13:21 PM
 #2

But we still need your full Bet history on all events to judge what has really happened.

Their explanation is not OK, but still if they provide full history we can judge if it is fair or not.

Hope your case get solved,

 
M0w
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April 04, 2017, 05:15:59 PM
 #3

But we still need your full Bet history on all events to judge what has really happened.

Their explanation is not OK, but still if they provide full history we can judge if it is fair or not.

Hope your case get solved,

 

As I said in one of my earlier posts, they fully closed my account today, giving me no possibilities to screencap my bets. I asked BetOpen.co but they will no provide full history because it is against their ToS.

Also, I still had one open bet in my account worth 0.25 BTC with odds of roughly 1.8 which was won but they never paid out, so basically the stolen balance is a bit higher. (The bet ID was 250 if I remember correctly so BetOpen.co can check that out).

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April 04, 2017, 06:30:36 PM
 #4

This is SICK.
Mind linking their official thread and the account under their control.
It's not completely your fault if their system is broken.Of course,you could have been a nice guy and told them about the glitches and got some bounty for it.But No,you choose to fuck them over which is none of my concerns.
Coming to the point,they shouldn't be holding your withdrawals because the reason they gave that is winning chances of only 0.00002 whatever doesn't exists which means site isn't completely fair.
They don't want you to win.They don't want their players to win.

Stay Away From Them.

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M0w
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April 04, 2017, 06:43:31 PM
 #5

This is SICK.
Mind linking their official thread and the account under their control.

I've added the thread and account to the OP

It's not completely your fault if their system is broken.Of course,you could have been a nice guy and told them about the glitches and got some bounty for it.But No,you choose to fuck them over which is none of my concerns.

Wow hold on! I never knew about the issue they were having regarding the time on their website until BetOpen told me about it today. I never cheated on their website, let's make that absolutely clear here !!

Coming to the point,they shouldn't be holding your withdrawals because the reason they gave that is winning chances of only 0.00002 whatever doesn't exists which means site isn't completely fair.
They don't want you to win.They don't want their players to win.

Stay Away From Them.

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Joel_Jantsen
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April 04, 2017, 06:46:06 PM
 #6

Wow hold on! I never knew about the issue they were having regarding the time on their website until BetOpen told me about it today. I never cheated on their website, let's make that absolutely clear here !!
I've tagged their account.I hope they will respond here.
You're saying you never cheated them ? Like you are absolutely sure you never cheated the system ? Let us hear their side of the story too.

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April 04, 2017, 06:48:33 PM
 #7

I'm quite sure I have not cheated here yeah, that's why I keep asking them for proof as you can read in the summary above. The only side of their story they want to explain is that I'm a fraud, but they are not giving any real proof, only accusations.

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April 04, 2017, 07:41:12 PM
 #8

I don't want to jump to conclusions too early, but holy hell the irony. "If you want to continue playing on our platform, you could deposit some funds and participate in our promotions". Thats the world turned upside down.

Just because you got extremely lucky, they call it off as a fraud, and tell you you "abused" their site, without giving any explanation about what you "abused"? Seems like they made that up. ( a bug in their site ).


Also how they calculated the winning chance is bullshit aswell. It's NEVER a 50/50 chance, especially not if you have done alot of research about the teams.

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April 04, 2017, 08:07:54 PM
 #9

I've tagged the user/service in question. "..your balance should be reset before."? Roll Eyes


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April 04, 2017, 08:24:05 PM
 #10

What ever happened, 0.00024% doesn't means 0% i tag them right now.

These gambling websites are always scaming people.

@M0w : Come to BitDice, these guys are really awesome and cool, legit, and never bother with withdrawals.

Have anyone seen any activiy from betopen ?


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April 05, 2017, 06:01:12 AM
 #11

Though Cases of Server Time-stamp mis-synchronization is rare to happen but yet it do. I am sure OP exploited the Gambling platform , instead if he would had told them about the glitches then he would be rewarded additionally but he never did that and kept exploiting it as per the quote below shows the performance of Player before and after the glitch.

Quote
2 days before the issue were active: Won - 7, Lost - 10
The day before : Won - 8, Lost - 7

On the day issue were active : WON - 21(same sport and bet type), Lost - 2. Probability - 0.00024%, which means average user will need to place same amount of bets for 416667 days (1141 years) to 100% achieve the same result

1 day after issue was fixed: Won - 3, Lost - 2
2 days after issue was fixed: Won - 1, Lost - 3.



As it was fault of Gambling platform and the player who exploited should not be refunded , Previous trends which can back up my statement.

1. Someone of Primedice got to know the server seed in advance so he was able to predict the outcomes , so he withdrew a whooping amount but as soon as PD discovered it they closed his account and rest money was nulled.
2. Secondstrade has some issue with their rolling dice , same like here some guys exploited it but at the end they did not paid the player saying that when the player won the game at that time the site had glitch, they proved that it was a glitch.



My offer to BetOpen is that they let me know the issue that they experienced , if correctly i can get it proved by my technical staff who operated servers in my company.


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M0w
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April 05, 2017, 06:52:58 AM
 #12

Not sure how you can conclude that I abused some exploit simply based on accusations from BetOpen. I asked them for proof but they have time and again failed to do so.

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April 05, 2017, 07:00:29 AM
 #13

Not sure how you can conclude that I abused some exploit simply based on accusations from BetOpen. I asked them for proof but they have time and again failed to do so.
I never concluded anything , but if they proved it that it was a glitch at the time when you placed the bet then i ma sorry your accusation is nulled then.
Its just a matter of time , if they provide some sort of technical logs.



either way its only you and the betopen know what exactly the fault was, i strongly feel that there was some time zone issue as i have seen this in may sportsbook and this is how they cancel your betslip and return your initial amount.


i don't know if you guys do betting on cloudbet which is most long time running here , they often get struck at time-zone issue and the delay feed provided by the agency with which they are tied, but when they feel that such stuff happened they cancel your winning. i have seen it.

 


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Quartx
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April 05, 2017, 07:07:36 AM
 #14

Well, if a site has an exploited vulnerability and claim to fix it without telling the exact details of said "vulnerability", I call bullshit on said site.
Any vulnerability you found can be released even if you need to sensor server or service details. Unless said vulnerability was created by bad programmers on your payrole, that is your fault.

So betopen is claiming that they only found the vulnerability after stealing said amounts?

I bet they are going to follow this up with " We are sorry but his account has been totally closed and removed from our databases so we cannot show you his bets list ", telltale signs of typical bullshit. It is standard industry practice to "hibernate" accounts instead of simply removing data from database.

I wonder if said company even knows how probability and odds work, any generated odds are only true in an absolutely perfect universe.

@chevas I think it is pretty clear that betopen will not provide any proof at all, they use the pretext of "security" to protect their supposed wrongdoings.

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April 05, 2017, 07:13:56 AM
 #15

@chevas I think it is pretty clear that betopen will not provide any proof at all, they use the pretext of "security" to protect their supposed wrongdoings.

cant say, I have shoot them some Pms asking them to throw some light on the issue.

what is my best case and worst case scenario?

In best case the if they prove the glitch by logs then it is good for them , [1]anyhow the player has nothing to lose except his precious time as he had already earned all his deposit back previously.

in worst case if the gambling platform fails to prove the glitch then also the player has nothing to lose as explained [1] , but the platform has everything to lose here.

I am not here to take side but to follow logic and prove and lets see.....


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April 05, 2017, 08:27:45 AM
 #16

Hey,

Here's additional proofs of the time glitch being used by the player on 26.03.2017.

Example ticket details that shows time zone issue and bet is still available after the game starts abused by the player:


Also chat with support regarding the issue that shows that issue were present on that day:


Also, again, user performance during the day of the issue:

Quote
As an example of the outcome of this vulnerability for this user, we could show more detailed view on his bets.

2 days before the issue were active: Won - 7, Lost - 10
The day before : Won - 8, Lost - 7

On the day issue were active : WON - 21(same sport and bet type), Lost - 2. Probability - ~0.00024%, which means average user will need to place same amount of bets for 416667 days (1141 years) to 100% achieve the same result

1 day after: Won - 3, Lost - 2
after issue was fixed: Won - 1, Lost - 3.

User comment regarding that he may done this "unintentionally":

Okay, so I placed bets during and after the games had ended? even if I did it was not intentional...

Even if anyone abuses the platform issue once, not 'unintentionally' multiple times, his account would be suspended/closed as stated in T&Cs.
(If you robbing a bank and get caught on friday, you cant just give back stolen money on friday and walk away freely with other money, as an example  Smiley)

And as mentioned above, OP got successfully withdrawed more than he deposited and also rewarded 200mB as bonus.


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April 05, 2017, 08:47:16 AM
 #17

Though Cases of Server Time-stamp mis-synchronization is rare to happen but yet it do. I am sure OP exploited the Gambling platform , instead if he would had told them about the glitches then he would be rewarded additionally but he never did that and kept exploiting it as per the quote below shows the performance of Player before and after the glitch.
How can you be so sure OP exploited the gambling platform ? Dude,as stated above,if you keep your locked open without any security,chances are,people are going to rob.It is completely Website's fault that they didn't test their server enough.Your mindset surprises me.If there is a bug in the system,it's your responsibility to fix it before someone takes advantage of it.

My offer to BetOpen is that they let me know the issue that they experienced , if correctly i can get it proved by my technical staff who operated servers in my company.
No,we would like to keep it open and as much as I love programming,I won't trust staff of some random account operating random servers.

I never concluded anything , but if they proved it that it was a glitch at the time when you placed the bet then i ma sorry your accusation is nulled then.
Its just a matter of time , if they provide some sort of technical logs.
Again,what is his fault if the server was fucked during his entire bet placing process ?

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April 05, 2017, 08:53:56 AM
 #18

I will take a good look later tonight at the image you posted BetOpen, but please provide all bets on that day with timestamp so I can better investigate what went wrong.

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April 05, 2017, 09:14:04 AM
 #19

Guys, if the matches had started and pre-match odds were up, all bets placed after the starting time are void.
Doesn't matter whose fault it is, bets are just void.

If a bookmaker is getting exploited, the bookie can kick the player out. They are not obligated to keep the player around for the next time he finds a glitch and takes another shot!

The most important issue now is about penalising the player, confiscating funds. Im not a judge, and bookie is not a judge either, i dont think its right to confiscate anything.
But user already has gotten winnings out, more than the deposits right? And the bonus.
I dont know, its the only time the player abused the system right? Cancel the late bets, kick him out and pay the rest of the fair bets I'd say.

Everyone will see you acted generously and your reputation will be good.
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April 05, 2017, 09:49:59 AM
 #20


If a bookmaker is getting exploited, the bookie can kick the player out. They are not obligated to keep the player around for the next time he finds a glitch and takes another shot!

But user already has gotten winnings out, more than the deposits right? And the bonus.

Thanks for your feedback, you're right.

We should 100% stick to our T&Cs because any player should be able to see that they are 100% utilized by us and expect that both he and us are fully commiting to the rules provided.
That's why this is our right, and our decision is correct and it's better for everyone in the future that T&Cs are fullfilled as they are written.

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