Bitcoin Forum
April 24, 2024, 10:01:05 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Poll
Question: They found Satoshi?
evidence is compelling - 7 (15.6%)
evidence is not convincing - 18 (40%)
what evidence? - 6 (13.3%)
I don't bother to read your nonsense "evidence" - 11 (24.4%)
other - 3 (6.7%)
Total Voters: 45

Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: They found Satoshi?  (Read 6699 times)
iGotSpots
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2548
Merit: 1054


CPU Web Mining 🕸️ on webmining.io


View Profile WWW
April 08, 2017, 11:03:27 PM
 #121

You will never find satoshi unless she wants to be found. Period.

1713952865
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1713952865

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1713952865
Reply with quote  #2

1713952865
Report to moderator
Activity + Trust + Earned Merit == The Most Recognized Users on Bitcointalk
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
1713952865
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1713952865

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1713952865
Reply with quote  #2

1713952865
Report to moderator
sidhujag
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005


View Profile
April 09, 2017, 12:47:10 AM
 #122

You will never find satoshi unless she wants to be found. Period.
or dead
sidhujag
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005


View Profile
April 09, 2017, 12:48:52 AM
 #123


hm.... Even if he is or isn't Satoshi Nakamoto, I think that people should stop searching for him like he's a bigfoot or something. If the guy want's to remain anonymous, leave him be. :/
if you hold btc it might matter to you.. is it a "ponzi" like your parents say it is or is it part of something bigger.
Creepings
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 546
Merit: 257


View Profile
April 09, 2017, 01:01:20 AM
 #124

You will never find satoshi unless she wants to be found. Period.
or dead

Roasted! hahaha.

I think that if there is a news confirming these guy, John Nash to be the real Satoshi Nakamoto, then I think one of the biggest mysteries in our world is been solved, that makes on less mystery to think off. And Satoshi Nakamoto being dead can't help the problem of bitcoin these days. But we need to thank him for making such a good discovery.
sidhujag
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005


View Profile
April 09, 2017, 01:03:57 AM
 #125

You will never find satoshi unless she wants to be found. Period.
or dead

Roasted! hahaha.

I think that if there is a news confirming these guy, John Nash to be the real Satoshi Nakamoto, then I think one of the biggest mysteries in our world is been solved, that makes on less mystery to think off. And Satoshi Nakamoto being dead can't help the problem of bitcoin these days. But we need to thank him for making such a good discovery.
Explains why he doesnt even stop by newsgroups anymore even in face of scaling issue. I think its bullish.. i couldnt think if a better person to ever be satoshi.. it will add to allure because he was a one of a kind genius
Dorky
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 392
Merit: 250


Best IoT Platform Based on Blockchain


View Profile
April 09, 2017, 03:25:37 AM
 #126

John Nash IS Satoshi Nakamoto.



is happy! (look he's smiling)


     
     ██
    ███
  █ ███
 ██ ███
 ██ ███
 ██ ███
 ██ ███
 ██ ███
 ██ ███
 █  ██
   



         ▄▄▄██████████▄▄▄
      ▄████████████████████▄
    ▄████████████████████████▄
   █████▀▀▀▀▀▀███████▀▀▀▀▀▀████
  ██████      ███████      █████
 █████████▌   ███████   █████████
▐█████████▌   ███████   █████████▌
████████                   ███████
▐███████▄▄▄   ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄   ▄▄▄██████▌
 ██████████   ███████   █████████
  ██████▀▀▀   ███████   ▀▀▀█████
   █████      ███████      ████
    ▀████████████████████████▀
      ▀████████████████████▀
         ▀▀▀██████████▀▀▀


 
 ▄▄         ▄▄             ▄▄
▐██▌       ▐██▌           ███▌
▐██▌       ▐██▌     ▄▄▄▄▄▄███▌      ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄     ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
▐██▌       ▐██▌   ▄██████████▌   ▄███████████   ▄██████████
▐█████████████▌  ███▀     ▐██▌  ▐███▀     ███  ▐███▀
▐██▌       ▐██▌ ▐██▌      ▐██▌  ███▌      ███  ███▌
▐██▌       ▐██▌  ███▄     ▐██▌  ▐███▄     ███  ▐███▄
▐██▌       ▐██▌   ▀██████████▌   ▀██████  ███   ▀██████████
▀▀         ▀▀       ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀       ▀▀▀▀  ▀▀▀      ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀


██
███
███
███ ██
███ ██
███ ██
███ ██
███ ██
███ ██
 ██ 
  █

██    Whitepaper    ██
.
██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
.
FacebookTwitterBitcointalk
iamnotback (OP)
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336
Merit: 265



View Profile
April 09, 2017, 03:32:28 AM
Last edit: April 09, 2017, 03:53:30 AM by iamnotback
 #127

After feedback from others, further thought and investigation, I now think it is unlikely that the programmer of Bitcoin and the guy who interacted with community through mailing lists and this forum was the famed mathematician John Nash.

However, I think John Nash is still possibly involved unwittingly. It seems it was intentionally made to appear that John Nash could have been Satoshi (which thus of course means Satoshi isn't Nash).

However, it is very peculiar that Nash did not ever speak to the fact that Satoshi's PoW was discovery of a Shapley value for his research on Cooperation in Non-Cooperative Repeated Games and that Bitcoin was the better (more stable) gold that his ideal money plan needed to force nations to compete to make their currencies more stable which is precisely what he predicted could happen by a process of evolution.

So it occurs to me to think that that which is not achieved by a grand action of establishment by “fiat” may alternatively tend to come into existence as a consequence of a process of evolution. And of course, after a certain degree of progress by “evolution” the rest of the progress could possibly be realized by a convention or a process of “fiat”.

And that Nash specifically demurred when asked about Bitcoin, but then cryptically explained that gold and silver were worse, thus implying that he knew that Bitcoin was what his ideal money planned needed to kickstart the evolution he wrote about. So that is very strange.

And I still have no explanation for the timing of Nash's absence from public activity from the late 2008 to early 2010 timeframe, which coincided with Satoshi's public communication.

Here is evidence that Nash wasn't the Satoshi speaking to us:

1. If John Nash wanted secrecy he would never have embedded his name so obviously in Satoshi Nakamoto. If he didn't need secrecy, then he would have been more open.


2. Satoshi was not working on the source code from 2004 to 2008. The period in which Nash become very active touring again for ideal money in summer 2008, was when Satoshi claims he was still coding:

I believe I've worked through all those little details over the
last year and a half while coding it, and there were a lot of them.


3. The use of the word 'right' instead of 'correct' is not indicative of someone of Nash's attention to detail in the use of language:

Right, nodes ...

Right, exactly ...

You're already right about most of your assumptions where you filled in the blanks.


4. As for the claims about the original source code of Bitcoin, note that Hal Finney was working on the code before anybody else saw it.

Note that the person who was communicating as Satoshi obviously knew some economics because he corrected James A. Donald about the distinction between inflation and debasement (which is a common conflation many retards in our community continue to make every damn day):

The fact that new coins are produced means the money supply increases by a planned amount, but this does not necessarily result in inflation.  If the supply of money increases at the same rate that the number of people using it increases, prices remain stable.  If it does not increase as fast as demand, there will be deflation and early holders of money will see its value increase.

The above quote is I think Satoshi trying to defend Bitcoin as a better gold. However, this "Satoshi" also makes statements indicating he hasn't really thought out the game theory of Bitcoin's future very well:

Coins have to get initially distributed somehow, and a constant rate seems like the best formula.

If you're having trouble with the inflation issue, it's easy to tweak it for transaction fees instead.  It's as simple as this: let the output value from any transaction be 1 cent less than the input value.  Either the client software automatically writes transactions for 1 cent more than the intended payment value, or it could come out of the payee's side.  The incentive value when a node finds a proof-of-work for a block could be the total of the fees in the block.


5. Although the "Satoshi" who is speaking to us is aware of the key innovation he has solved w.r.t. to Wei Dai's original work, he explains in terms of synchronization instead of game theory of non-cooperative repeated games:

> Distributed databases are *hard* even when all the
> databases perfectly follow the will of a single owner.
> Messages get lost, links drop, syncrhonization delays
> become abnormal, and entire machines go up in flames,
> and the network as a whole has to take all this in its
> stride.

A very good point, and a more complete specification is necessary in order
to understand how the network will respond to imperfections like this. I
am looking forward to seeing more detail emerge.

One thing I might mention is that in many ways bitcoin is two independent
ideas: a way of solving the kinds of problems James lists here, of
creating a globally consistent but decentralized database; and then using
it for a system similar to Wei Dai's b-money (which is referenced in the
paper) but transaction/coin based rather than account based. Solving the
global, massively decentralized database problem is arguably the harder
part, as James emphasizes. The use of proof-of-work as a tool for this
purpose is a novel idea well worth further review IMO.

Hal Finney

The proof-of-work chain is a solution to the Byzantine Generals' Problem.  I'll try to rephrase it in that context.

...

The proof-of-work chain is how all the synchronisation, distributed database and global view problems you've asked about are solved.


6. On the marketing side, Satoshi seemed to obfuscate when told his design would not scale to the necessary geek-cool-libertards would want, as Satoshi's only response was #2 quote above:

> It's very attractive to the libertarian viewpoint if
 > we can explain it properly.  I'm better with code than
 > with words though.

No, it is very attractive to the libertarian if we can
design a mechanism that will scale to the point of
providing the benefits of rapidly irreversible payment,
immune to political interference, over the internet,
to very large numbers of people. You have an outline
and proposal for such a design, which is a big step
forward, but the devil is in the little details.
iamnotback (OP)
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336
Merit: 265



View Profile
April 09, 2017, 04:03:27 AM
 #128

After feedback from others, further thought and investigation, I now think it is unlikely that the programmer of Bitcoin and the guy who interacted with community through mailing lists and this forum was the famed mathematician John Nash.

However, I think John Nash is still possibly involved unwittingly. It seems it was intentionally made to appear that John Nash could have been Satoshi (which thus of course means Satoshi isn't Nash).

However, it is very peculiar that Nash did not ever speak to the fact that Satoshi's PoW was discovery of a Shapley value for his research on Cooperation in Non-Cooperative Repeated Games and that Bitcoin was the better (more stable) gold that his ideal money plan needed to force nations to compete to make their currencies more stable which is precisely what he predicted could happen by a process of evolution.

So it occurs to me to think that that which is not achieved by a grand action of establishment by “fiat” may alternatively tend to come into existence as a consequence of a process of evolution. And of course, after a certain degree of progress by “evolution” the rest of the progress could possibly be realized by a convention or a process of “fiat”.

And that Nash specifically demurred when asked about Bitcoin, but then cryptically explained that gold and silver were worse, thus implying that he knew that Bitcoin was what his ideal money planned needed to kickstart the evolution he wrote about. So that is very strange.

And I still have no explanation for the timing of Nash's absence from public activity from the late 2008 to early 2010 timeframe, which coincided with Satoshi's public communication.

Here is evidence that Nash wasn't the Satoshi speaking to us:

...

As I have been explaining since 2014, Bitcoin was created by the global elite who want a NWO. Bitcoin forces the national central banks to become compared to a stable money which has more utility than gold, i.e. a better gold. It kickstarts the process of destroying nation-state fiats. Which is what Nash's ideal money called for as a process of evolution.

The global elite understand the math I showed which shows that all the Bitcoin can become concentrated in one entity, if Bitcoin were to become the most stable global settlement (reserve) currency.

Thus the elite understand that Bitcoin will ultimately be rejected and thus their SDR basket (analogous to the IPCI in Nash's ideal money) will end up being the ultimate NWO reserve currency. Bitcoin may end up in that basket.

I think the elite somehow involved Nash by NSF funding his research on Cooperation in Non-Cooperative Repeated Games and influencing him to continue he paranoid obsession with ideal money which was involved in his life long battle with delusional paranoia.

So somehow they were able to structure Nash's activities to make it plausible that he could have been Satoshi.

I think what the elite did was they seeded some secret group to do the coding and interaction as Satoshi. This was within the national security apparatus aka "DEEP STATE".

They surely killed those who did the original coding by now.

But I think they outsmarted themselves. Or the emergent chaos of nature outsmarted them. Because Bitcoin will give rise to altcoins which move beyond fungible money into the Inverse Commons of the knowledge age.
iamnotback (OP)
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336
Merit: 265



View Profile
April 09, 2017, 04:09:44 AM
Last edit: April 09, 2017, 04:30:38 AM by iamnotback
 #129


hm.... Even if he is or isn't Satoshi Nakamoto, I think that people should stop searching for him like he's a bigfoot or something. If the guy want's to remain anonymous, leave him be. :/

That's not the point. More interesting reading about ideal money and the relationship to bitcoin. I don't care about Satoshi. I do care about bitcoin and the ideas behind it.

Exactly. Trolls like @Dorky can't seem to grasp the intellectual pursuit. Because they have pea brains.

I doubt he has even bothered to read that very important source document you linked to.



It looks like you've unmasked the bitcoin santa claus and ruined christmas  Cry

iamnotback (OP)
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336
Merit: 265



View Profile
April 10, 2017, 04:17:14 AM
Last edit: April 10, 2017, 04:34:07 AM by iamnotback
 #130

Satoshi's creation contains too many blunders (mathematical, cryptographic, economical, game-theoretical and programmatic) to be made by a genius like Nash.

I have refuted you in another thread. You had some really dumb errors in your analysis such as claiming that RIPE160 reducing security. No it only reduces the space of addresses increases potential collisions but only astronomically small probability yet saves a lot of scaling space.

If John Nash was so smart and he invented bitcoin then why didnt he foresee that a chinese cartel would arise and centralize his entire project? this doesn't make sense to me.

The game theory of Bitcoin is a crab bucket mentality Schelling point and nobody can change the protocol, they can only block changes to the protocol. Which is exactly what is happening.

Chinese cartel doesn't control Bitcoin, the protocol controls itself. The Chinese are protecting the protocol precisely as the game theory expects they would.

It is difficult for me to have a discussion with the idiots here in these forums. You guys don't assimilate everything I write.

Lol this guy, TRAIN: stop with the personal attacks. Its absolute insanity to think that all the people here have not read the material and have each come to the same conclusion.

If 30 people are telling you that your evidence is circumstancial at best and proves nothing

Thirty idiots who can't assimilate detailed technological research are basically just noise.

I have already explained that Nash was obviously (but likely unwittingly) involved and explained why.

Idiots are not worth my time.
iamnotback (OP)
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336
Merit: 265



View Profile
April 10, 2017, 02:29:00 PM
 #131

Well, it's not that I don't read more.
It's just that I am not interested in your subject of interest (who is satoshi nakamoto? john nash is!) and couldn't care less about it.

Then don't comment. Or try to reason with me as you are doing now, instead of treating me like shit and mocking me as you were doing.

I can identify who (or what) is behind the force of bitcoin even without taking the path of understanding who is satoshi nakamoto.

And so did I, when I wrote Bitcoin : The Digital Kill Switch in March 2013, when I first joined this forum. I also published that at marketoracle as well.

So what if you have all the information that john nash could very likely be satoshi nakamoto?

Because it helps me (us) to understand what exactly their plans are for Bitcoin. Now I know they intend it to be a settlement layer.

The NSA already has a complete research paper on cryptocurrency way back in 1996, do you know that?

I've known about that since 2013.

And back in 1988, The Economist magazine already touted a "phoenix" world currency.

I've known about that since 2007. For example look at when I mentioned it in 2010.

What is most important is not whether john nash has a role in bitcoin.
What is most important is what's the intention of the shadow elite with bitcoin on us, how their plan will play out, and how it will affect our lives.

That is why understanding Nash's role (even if only symbolic) and his Ideal Money is so important.

Your path of tracing bitcoin's root back to the shadow elite is just one way out of several.
And just because your way is through john nash does not mean your way is the only way or that other people's way is not.

Did I ever say anyone else's research on connecting Bitcoin to the shadow elite was worthless?

If you think people will eventually know bitcoin was by the shadow elite thanks to your research, then I say you are very full of yourself.

You underestimate how many dozens if not 100s of people read my posts. Just because a few trolls like you think you are so important, there are more lurkers who at least are interested to read what I have to say. My technical skills are also legit.

Edit:
Besides, if you think bitcoin will be rejected in favor of one or some of the alts out there, that shows you don't understand the shadow elite well enough.
Yeah, I can see you are a thinker. No sarcasm here. But I believe you need to think even more.

I have secret weapons.

Besides the shadow elite are apt to love the altcoin I will launch, because they will see it as yet another speculation that falls under Bitcoin's umbrella.
iamnotback (OP)
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336
Merit: 265



View Profile
April 13, 2017, 04:55:38 AM
 #132

This isn't to promote embarrassment or admonishment of @dinofelis. No I just want to spread the information (perspective) contained within my rebuttal.

But I consider that as a design error.  Visibly he didn't realize the amount of wasted power that would go into his system.

Everything in Bitcoin was calculated for a reason.

Remember Bitcoin is made by the elite for the elite.

And I had already refuted your excessive hashrate cost argument in another thread. You are quite disingenuous because you continue to claim issues that had already been refuted.

You disingenuously continue to pretend they weren't disproved.

So frankly we are reaching the point where we can't continue to have any dialogue because I don't waste my time with people who are disingenuous.



Ask yourself whose world view is hurt most:
- mine if ever it turned out that Nash was Satoshi (making me conclude that Nash's genius was probably having a bad day - can happen, given bitcoin's clunky design)
- yours if ever it turned out that Satoshi was just a guy in his basement

I am not the one suffering from cognitive dissonance

You continue to repeat that lie (opinion) about Bitcoin having clunky design. Bitcoin has a perfect design for what the elite want.

You will suffer the most because you are not preparing for the fact that Bitcoin is a 666 tool of the elite. And you are not preparing for the fact that the EU totalitarianism where you are will get horrifically worse. You think the crisis is over in Europe. Lol.

For me it doesn't matter who coded Bitcoin, but rather whose design principles Bitcoin was modeled on. And what is the outcome of Bitcoin going to be and its impact on the world.

You think Bitcoin is a silly toy that will fade away. I think Bitcoin will become a key part of the new financial system after the global monetary reset coming in the horrific sovereign debt totalitarianism collapse underway.

I'm sorry about that.

Why are you sorry? I hate Bitcoin too (long-term, its okay for my uses short-term). But I know Bitcoin is unstoppable although I wish it could be stopped.

I can write a letter to Pythagoras, saying "you are wrong, but you are suffering from cognitive dissonance".  That doesn't disprove Pythagoras' theorem.

You were disproven. You might be blind or disingenuous and unwilling to figure it out, but that is not my responsibility to fix.

95% or more of its market cap sustained by greater fool theory, and probably less than 5% used as money in one way or another

So is the entire fiat system. Have you not seen the $quadrillion in global derivatives holding up the fiat system.

You don't understand what money is. Finance is primary user of money, not the masses.

Bitcoin is the high powered reserve currency money of decentralized finance for $billionaires. You have no clue as to what is really going on. You are totally lost.

it is a great reserve currency for unregulated sleazy big business (but not for the normal user, only for the big sleazy guys).

Which is 95% of all business.

You don't seem to grasp that Bitcoin is how the banksters-gangsters will carry forward their wealth from the collapsing nation-state monetary system to the new one coming after 2024.

This is why I don't like it.  I think Satoshi created a monster

I don't like it either, but neither of us can stop it. You are highly underestimating the evil rise of Bitcoin.

In other words, when I see the work, I think it cannot be the work of a genius, or at most of a genius in a bad day.

Consider the genius is evil. Then you realize Bitcoin could have been designed by an evil genius. The reason you think it is not designed by  genius, because you don't understand the real goal of Bitcoin. Thus you misattribute clumsiness where the truth is it was cleverly designed that way to serve an evil purpose.
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!