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Author Topic: Why so few immersion cooled custom builds/Mods?  (Read 2837 times)
NotFuzzyWarm
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April 19, 2017, 03:17:22 PM
 #21

What are the options for purchasing a finished system for immersion cooling?

I've only been able to find this product, and the company didn't want to talk to me about a small residential installation...

http://www.grcooling.com/carnotjet/
That ^^ looks rather nice and good to see they are not using Novec Wink
Tried to dl the FAQ on their thermal xfr fluid but must be one helluva big PDF -- over minute and still not loaded. That's a 'FAQ'?
Too bad and rather stupid that they won't talk to 'small' users...

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April 20, 2017, 10:23:42 AM
 #22

I like what machine zero is saying about heating his pool  Smiley . I don't have one myself to heat, but certainly the idea of transferring the asic heat to a fluid makes it more transportable and re-usable in other applications. By not blowing dusty air around too maybe this could transfer heat into cleaner environments, (food prep areas like bakers proving room/cupboard etc) I dunno, like I said earlier I was just trying to encourage some discussion on the topic of why not and not so much how.


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NotFuzzyWarm
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April 20, 2017, 12:44:52 PM
 #23

Quote
like I said earlier I was just trying to encourage some discussion on the topic of why not and not so much how.
Ah. That aspect has been extensively covered and recovered and recovered in other threads... Ya the heat could be reused in many areas needing a constant moderately to very warm temp. Quick re-cap:
Hydronic heating
Baking (proving rooms)
Food preservation (beef jerky)
Pools/spas

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sidehack
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April 20, 2017, 01:57:48 PM
 #24

I've often thought it'd be handy to pipe my exhaust heat into a greenhouse or something so I could have fresh corn in January. Though realistically my shop leaks so much, it was all I could do to keep the place warm with miner heat and didn't have any to spare for vegetables.

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April 20, 2017, 05:56:22 PM
 #25

Quote
like I said earlier I was just trying to encourage some discussion on the topic of why not and not so much how.
Ah. That aspect has been extensively covered and recovered and recovered in other threads... Ya the heat could be reused in many areas needing a constant moderately to very warm temp. Quick re-cap:
Hydronic heating
Baking (proving rooms)
Food preservation (beef jerky)
Pools/spas

bitjerky.. has a great ring to it. people would probably buy for the novelty of tasting some petahash infused beef.

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April 20, 2017, 06:51:36 PM
 #26

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bitjerky.. has a great ring to it. people would probably buy for the novelty of tasting some petahash infused beef.
Love it and makes for a great post # 2,000 for me Cheesy

As with all the other applications, since the business is paying for power anyway to make the needed heat it would be to their advantage to offset the energy cost by mining. Say use the miners to supply around 75-80% of the heat needed and use a conventional heat source to provide the rest. That way miners stay running 24x7 and temp control is done by the conventional heater & temp controls.

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italianMiner72
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April 21, 2017, 11:32:36 AM
 #27

Okay, I know at a glace this could come across as a stupid topic but I would really appreciate it if an articulate discussion came of this...

Cryptocurrency mining hardware is very expensive, and we should look after our rigs as best we can. After all, the build up of dust reduces air flow, raises temperatures, kills blades/miners.

However in my (limited) experience, the components that get killed on the boards aren't often the mining chips as you may think, but the often disregarded power regulating components. Mosfets, capacitors etc. Without this becoming a rant at some manufacturers that under-power their boards, over-stress the power supply circuitry, so it runs fast until it out lives the warranty. Some of us are doing this at a hobby level and don't have the high turnover of constantly getting the newest model of ASIC. We need to make our units last.

So my next point is regarding temperature. For one, people refer to overclocking ASICs and state the temperature that their interface is telling them the unit is at. Often this is wildly inaccurate, giving a surface temp of a PCB or once again measuring the mining chips and neglecting the Mosfets. Yes, when you overclock a mining chip it may raise in temp from 60 to 75, and you'd think with it's upper limit of 125 that'd be fine. But what's the temp of the Mosfets, capacitors etc we're stressing driving this equipment? As I said before it's not often the mining chip goes pop.

So my last point and the punchline really. The power supply components are often smaller than the mining chips in terms of surface area. They are also of unequal heights and this makes it very impractical to fit heatsinks. The designer places them in the airflow as best they can, but as I mentioned, with the enclosure around them this can be partly obstructed especially over time if not maintained. Is the answer not fluid cooled systems, immersion I mean, that give even heat exchange across every component? No matter how small?

I get that could be a logistical nightmare to ship. But I've seen very few hobbyists adapt their miners this way too. Am I missing something? Or if it ain't broken don't fix it?

But lets be honest on a technical level it would be no more complex than assembling a simple frame and dropping it in a fishtank of mineral oil. (A kind of gross simplification).
What about people that want to mine with an S7/S9 at home but can't put up with the noise?

A few thoughts.
Dan
Some interesting examples on youtube.

hi!!
nice to hear this topic again..
at the beginning i was fascinated about this kind of solution...
With the same power consumption you can push S9 frequency to the limit...
but then i have stopped all my project when i'm not been able to find a valid Novec fluid alternative...
here you can find a lot of data avout this fluids data:
http://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/novec/products/product-catalog/?N=8708160&rt=r3

last time i have checked the price, was at 125eur for 500ml and 215eur for 1Lt..
too much expensive...

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cryptotore
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April 22, 2017, 09:34:20 PM
 #28

What are the options for purchasing a finished system for immersion cooling?

I've only been able to find this product, and the company didn't want to talk to me about a small residential installation...

http://www.grcooling.com/carnotjet/
That ^^ looks rather nice and good to see they are not using Novec Wink
Tried to dl the FAQ on their thermal xfr fluid but must be one helluva big PDF -- over minute and still not loaded. That's a 'FAQ'?
Too bad and rather stupid that they won't talk to 'small' users...

Whats wrong with Novec? Tongue I tried back in the day to buy Novec 7100 from 3M, but they wouldnt sell it to me!
I was planning a small scale immersion project.
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April 28, 2017, 02:03:37 AM
 #29

What are the options for purchasing a finished system for immersion cooling?

I've only been able to find this product, and the company didn't want to talk to me about a small residential installation...

http://www.grcooling.com/carnotjet/
That ^^ looks rather nice and good to see they are not using Novec Wink
Tried to dl the FAQ on their thermal xfr fluid but must be one helluva big PDF -- over minute and still not loaded. That's a 'FAQ'?
Too bad and rather stupid that they won't talk to 'small' users...

I was finally able to speak with them.  Their systems start at $30,000.  Not sure I can justify the purchase, but it would be awesome for mining...

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NotFuzzyWarm
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April 28, 2017, 02:37:05 AM
 #30

Including the outdoor dry cooler? How many ton is it good for with say a desired miner fluid temp of 140F (60C) and a worst case hot outdoor temp of 110F (43.3C).

$30k is a decent ballpark, possibly sorta low.

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April 28, 2017, 05:38:16 PM
 #31

Including the outdoor dry cooler? How many ton is it good for with say a desired miner fluid temp of 140F (60C) and a worst case hot outdoor temp of 110F (43.3C).

$30k is a decent ballpark, possibly sorta low.

Yes.  That was for a refurbished unit without shipping or installation considered.  Any rich sponsors out there?

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June 05, 2017, 11:49:00 PM
 #32

What are the options for purchasing a finished system for immersion cooling?

I've only been able to find this product, and the company didn't want to talk to me about a small residential installation...
http://www.grcooling.com/carnotjet/
Was just poking around the Forum and had further thoughts on this:
GRCooling's reticence on doing a residential installation is probably due to liability concerns over systems using many gallons of industrial fluid. For one, odds are fire and zoning laws for urban residential areas may well forbid it. Another being spill response and waste disposal. How many home owners would know how to handle it correctly?

I know for a fact Clearco who make the thermal fluid I referred to above will not sell to a non-commercial entity. When it is a business purchasing systems or fluids like that then there is some relief from lawsuits arising from improper use or large spills and their cleanup costs. Pretty safe bet home owners insurance will not cover you if/when something happens...

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June 06, 2017, 06:54:46 AM
 #33

Was just poking around the Forum and had further thoughts on this:
GRCooling's reticence on doing a residential installation is probably due to liability concerns over systems using many gallons of industrial fluid. For one, odds are fire and zoning laws for urban residential areas may well forbid it. Another being spill response and waste disposal. How many home owners would know how to handle it correctly?

I know for a fact Clearco who make the thermal fluid I referred to above will not sell to a non-commercial entity. When it is a business purchasing systems or fluids like that then there is some relief from lawsuits arising from improper use or large spills and their cleanup costs. Pretty safe bet home owners insurance will not cover you if/when something happens...

I did end up discussing an install with a couple of their techs.  The reason they are hesitant about doing residential installs is mainly just the price.  Their systems are made to be huge for data centers, so if you have only a single immersion tank in your garage, you're spending a ton of money on a cooling tower, heat exchanger, and pumps that are made to cool several immersion tanks.

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June 08, 2017, 12:39:21 PM
 #34

I wanted to do a small set up in my home with one S9 antminer in like a fish tank and a basic fan on radiator set up but I wanted to ask since you all seem to know lots which has been quite helpful! Is immersion cooling effective like a fan? And is it safe to run 24-7? I just don't wanna have loud fans so immersion cooling seems to get rid of those, just wanted to know if it was really affective or if it still runs the risk of burning the chip and capacitors. Cheers guys!
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July 19, 2017, 02:49:19 PM
 #35

That ^^ looks rather nice and good to see they are not using Novec Wink
Tried to dl the FAQ on their thermal xfr fluid but must be one helluva big PDF -- over minute and still not loaded. That's a 'FAQ'?
Too bad and rather stupid that they won't talk to 'small' users...

Whats wrong with Novec? Tongue I tried back in the day to buy Novec 7100 from 3M, but they wouldnt sell it to me!
I was planning a small scale immersion project.
Good reason to bump this.
Nothing wrong with Novec aside from price and the design precautions needed to use it. Perfect for commercial operations.

As for 3M not selling it to you: The fluid is designed for industrial use and as with most industrial chemicals/fluids I do not know of ANY manufacturer that will sell them to a non-commercial entity. When it is a business purchasing systems or fluids like that then there is some relief from lawsuits arising from improper use or large spills and their cleanup costs. Pretty safe bet home owners insurance will not cover you if/when something happens...

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July 20, 2017, 04:33:47 PM
 #36

Hello. I want to present you equipment for liquid cooling of any kind of chips for mining, such as video cards, ASIC, etc.

https://forum.bits.media/uploads/monthly_07_2017/post-46248-0-89254500-1500483152_thumb.jpg
https://forum.bits.media/uploads/monthly_07_2017/post-46248-0-93856800-1500483134_thumb.jpg
https://forum.bits.media/uploads/monthly_07_2017/post-46248-0-55833800-1500483144_thumb.jpg
https://forum.bits.media/uploads/monthly_07_2017/post-46248-0-59075900-1500483111_thumb.jpg
https://forum.bits.media/uploads/monthly_07_2017/post-46248-0-23215900-1500483119_thumb.jpg
https://forum.bits.media/uploads/monthly_07_2017/post-46248-0-24611700-1500483126_thumb.jpg
https://forum.bits.media/uploads/monthly_07_2017/post-46248-0-40687000-1500483104_thumb.jpg
https://forum.bits.media/uploads/monthly_07_2017/post-46248-0-40647700-1500483159_thumb.jpg
 
The production of boxes for cooling (5 kW) has been set up, possibly an increase to 50 kW. The price for boxing will remain about the same. Only the price of liquid will increase. Successfully tested on Panda miners.
 
The container consists of a board tank, an internal heat exchanger, a level sensor, an integrated "cold trap" for trapping liquid vapor. The overall dimensions of the container will be refined after receiving the data on the cards.
The liquid (Novec 649 3M) does not conduct electricity and does not adversely affect the boards.
The boiling point of the liquid is 49 degrees. This means that the temperature on the chips will always be about 60.

The quantity of liquid is the calculated parameter. The cost of the liquid is 1300 euros.

Pluses:
1. No any noise
2. No dust
3. High fire safety (liquid used in fire-extinguishing systems)
4. There is no harmful effect on the chips
5. Overheating protection (turns off on power)
6. Looks cool

Disadvantages:
Equipment can be more expensive than air ventilation

***
The case of the box is made of aluminum. It consists of two parts - a container with a liquid and a lid with heat exchangers. The container is sealed, but not under pressure. Power / interface inputs are implemented in different ways depending on the power and required interfaces.
 
Price per box = $ 4200
The liquid must be ordered separately, the amount of liquid is the calculated parameter, so I do not indicate the price, 10 liters 1300 euros.

The product is made to order, the manufacturing time is approximately 2 months (imported liquid, the terms are large because of the fact that it will be necessary to order bp of China).
Delivery to your country is discussed separately.
 
Cooling the box is possible in two ways
1. Connect to a cold water source. For 5 kW, the required amount of water is 5 liters per minute
2. Connects to a dry cooling tower. The cooling tower must be ordered separately. The cost is approximately. The cost of the cooling tower is about 3500-4000 $
===========

Calculation of the price of equipment at 50 kW (very approximate)

1. The box is $ 4200. The container consists of a board tank, an internal heat exchanger, a level sensor, an integrated "cold trap" for trapping 3M liquid vapor. The overall dimensions of the container will be refined after receiving the data on the cards. The specification for capacity and drawings will be provided to the customer for approval.
2. Water Novec 649 - 5000 $. This is an imported product, so the cost can change. We will order the necessary quantity of liquid from the 3M dealer and provide the documents for payment. The standard term is 52 working days.
3a. Dry cooling tower with control unit. 8140 $. We buy this equipment in St. Petersburg.
3b. Instead of a dry cooling tower, you can connect the box to a source of cold water. This can be a point of economy.

The cost of installation and delivery of equipment is not yet clear. It depends on the country and requires discussion.

I apologize for the mistakes, my English level is not very good yet. Thank you for attention.

P.S. Also I can answer you in Telegram. My account ID is @lokoroko

Telegram ID: @lokoroko (rus, eng, jap)
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July 20, 2017, 08:21:14 PM
 #37

Quoted so the pictures can be seen.
Hello. I want to present you equipment for liquid cooling of any kind of chips for mining, such as video cards, ASIC, etc.









 <snip>

P.S. Also I can answer you in Telegram. My account ID is @lokoroko
I must say that either you have a very good translator or your English is quite good. In fact better than many native English-speaking members here...

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July 20, 2017, 08:28:13 PM
 #38

I must say that either you have a very good translator or your English is quite good. In fact better than many native English-speaking members here...
It was google translator Smiley But anyway thank you Smiley

Telegram ID: @lokoroko (rus, eng, jap)
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July 21, 2017, 03:11:23 AM
 #39

Gotta say, of all the pluses #6 is the most compelling!  Cool

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July 21, 2017, 05:29:42 AM
 #40

Often this is wildly inaccurate, giving a surface temp of a PCB or once again measuring the mining chips and neglecting the Mosfets. Yes, when you overclock a mining chip it may raise in temp from 60 to 75, and you'd think with it's upper limit of 125 that'd be fine. But what's the temp of the Mosfets, capacitors etc we're stressing driving this equipment? As I said before it's not often the mining chip goes pop.

Hey OP sorry to threadjack but is there a thread  you know of that points out the typical components that do go bad?  Is it visible?
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