Post Paypal announcement price

[lebing]

What do you think?

[1714754926]

1714754926

[1714754926]

1714754926

[Le Happy Merchant]

I will see this as the first step in the "can't beat 'em, lets join 'em" cascade. But in the long run, paypal will die because Bitcoin obviates its function.

[notme]

What do you think?

I'm assuming you mean a hypothetical future announcement, since they have only said they are "looking at it".

[AmazonStuff]

Let’s say that merchants and big company like steady price growth or stable price, if they don’t have that they will leave or they will never come into Bitcoin world.

This extreme volatility will turn off merchants. High volatility could only attract your friends and neighbors when you tell them, you know price growth is 100% a week and they will hurry to buy some coins.
What you did not tell them that they are just a small fish which feeds the huge sharks that swim in these seas…  Every rally makes big fish, bigger and small fish, well… fish food. Maybe, there are a few of lucky ones, which follow the big sharks and feed with the small chunks that fall out of shark mouth, but they will be small forever.

Long term, how would it look like if we fail to attract merchants into bitcoin, well, something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfLnLwFcSBc

Think about that…

[Ares]

What do you think?

I'm assuming you mean a hypothetical future announcement, since they have only said they are "looking at it".

"following an announcement" implies a hypothetical future announcement in this context

[zeroday]

This way Paypal will damage the brand of bitcoin.

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

The fact that there a significant percentage people who apparently think Paypal adoption could possibly hurt Bitcoin, is very bullish for the price. It means many investors, even here, have little understanding of the investment situation.

[lebing]

The fact that there a significant percentage people who apparently think Paypal adoption could possibly hurt Bitcoin, is very bullish for the price. It means many investors, even here, have little understanding of the investment situation.

I have trouble believing that. Maybe I have too much faith in humanity  

[cedivad]

The order book would be cleared during a 4 hours rally.

[smoothie]

I don't see how PayPal could add Bitcoin as an "option"...or whatever without decimating their business.

PayPal charges fees on transactions. Bitcoin charges almost no fees.

PayPal has employees to pay and bills. Bitcoin doesn't.

It is almost like a suicide mission.

Maybe I am missing something here.

[Come-from-Beyond]

What do you think?

This will never happen.

[crazy_rabbit]

I don't see how PayPal could add Bitcoin as an "option"...or whatever without decimating their business.

PayPal charges fees on transactions. Bitcoin charges almost no fees.

PayPal has employees to pay and bills. Bitcoin doesn't.

It is almost like a suicide mission.

Maybe I am missing something here.

Paypal would charge fees too. They are so convenient that people would be more then happy to pay the fees. They could store their bitcoins on Paypals super sercure online wallet, and not have to worry about their bitcoins being stolen. And Paypal would be insured for thefts so they could sleep peacefully at night.

That's how they would do it. People would pay 2% to know their wallet won't be hacked and that paypal will back them up in the event it is.

[smoothie]

I don't see how PayPal could add Bitcoin as an "option"...or whatever without decimating their business.

PayPal charges fees on transactions. Bitcoin charges almost no fees.

PayPal has employees to pay and bills. Bitcoin doesn't.

It is almost like a suicide mission.

Maybe I am missing something here.

Paypal would charge fees too. They are so convenient that people would be more then happy to pay the fees. They could store their bitcoins on Paypals super sercure online wallet, and not have to worry about their bitcoins being stolen. And Paypal would be insured for thefts so they could sleep peacefully at night.

That's how they would do it. People would pay 2% to know their wallet won't be hacked and that paypal will back them up in the event it is.

What's the point, may as well use dollars right?

Who is going to insure bitcoins? Name one business that will insure this.

[Schrankwand]

I will see this as the first step in the "can't beat 'em, lets join 'em" cascade. But in the long run, paypal will die because Bitcoin obviates its function.

I doubt it obviates it. Because Paypal will take an Escrow and exchange function again. That is probably their plan.

They will start to become the big Escrow intermediary. And if you fuck it up with them, since they can't just take the bitcoin, they will disable the function to get you paid by other means.

Since Paypal has HUGE adoption, they still have a lot of punch.

[awakening]

[zby]

I don't know what would happen - but appearance of this kind of fantasy threads is a bearish indicator.

[naphto]

over 9k, probably even over 9m.
I will buy 1 or 2 btc now, I will be able to buy paypal tomorrow

[ruski]

I don't know what would happen - but appearance of this kind of fantasy threads is a bearish indicator.

Well they are payment processors, and Bitcoin is a way to pay people, so it makes sense that they might. I don't think it's fantasy. Maybe a long way off.

I still don't see any point for a buyer to use Paypal with BTC though. No reason not to accept it as a merchant, but through Paypal you will sacrifice your anonymity and your lack of fees in exchange for - what?

Still it could bump the price if for no reason other than awareness.

[Rampion]

I don't see how PayPal could add Bitcoin as an "option"...or whatever without decimating their business.

PayPal charges fees on transactions. Bitcoin charges almost no fees.

PayPal has employees to pay and bills. Bitcoin doesn't.

It is almost like a suicide mission.

Maybe I am missing something here.

THIS.

There's no way Paypal adds Bitcoin. Think carefully about it. Bitcoin and Paypal are enemies, there's no synergy possible, full stop.

Don't forget the main points of Bitcoin, and now I will quote the wiki:

Bitcoin is an experimental, decentralized digital currency that enables instant payments to anyone, anywhere in the world. Bitcoin uses peer-to-peer technology to operate with no central authority: managing transactions and issuing money are carried out collectively by the network.

Bitcoins are sent easily through the Internet, without needing to trust any third party.

Transactions are irreversible by design

And now, please answer:

what's Paypal business model?

what's his role and what "problem" they solve?

what strategic sense could have for them to add BTC?

[Rampion]

Saying that Paypal will embrace BTC is like saying that one day the president of the US will be an anarchist.

Mmmm... Yeah.... A contradiction in terms. What Paypal MAY do is to create THEIR OWN, CENTRALIZED cryptocurrency. Quote this for truth, and stop dreaming.

[600watt]

http://www.dailydot.com/business/paypal-president-bitcoin-accepted-exchange/

a ceo of such a company can not walk around and talk bullshit. if they say they considering it, they most likely are considering it. this message of the ceo is not aimed at the crazy bastards on a bitcoin hobby speculation forum. it is aimed towards their competition. it says: if you pick up this new tool, WE WILL ALSO.

[Rampion]

http://www.dailydot.com/business/paypal-president-bitcoin-accepted-exchange/

a ceo of such a company can not walk around and talk bullshit. if they say they considering it, they most likely are considering it. this message of the ceo is not aimed at the crazy bastards on a bitcoin hobby speculation forum. it is aimed towards their competition. it says: if you pick up this new tool, WE WILL ALSO.

You are not thinking clearly. BTC would add nothing to Paypal, BTC is an enemy for Paypal.

They are looking into crypto, but they won't embrace BTC.

[600watt]

http://www.dailydot.com/business/paypal-president-bitcoin-accepted-exchange/

a ceo of such a company can not walk around and talk bullshit. if they say they considering it, they most likely are considering it. this message of the ceo is not aimed at the crazy bastards on a bitcoin hobby speculation forum. it is aimed towards their competition. it says: if you pick up this new tool, WE WILL ALSO.

You are not thinking clearly. BTC would add nothing to Paypal, BTC is an enemy for Paypal.

They are looking into crypto, but they won't embrace BTC.

"So I’ve been spending a lot of time looking at it, and it’s truly fascinating actually: the way that the currency’s been designed, and the way that inflation is built in to pay for miners, and all that is truly fascinating. I think that for us at PayPal, it’s just a question whether Bitcoin will make its way to PayPal’s funding instrument or not. We’re kinda thinking about it."

(PayPal President David Marcus, quote from an interview with Bloomberg TV Wednesday )

i bet you one btc that either western union or paypal or another big financial services company will announce they accept bitcoin before the end of 2014.

[TimJBenham]

what's Paypal business model?

what's his role and what "problem" they solve?

what strategic sense could have for them to add BTC?

Another way for money to flow into their coffers. Of course they are not likely to offer BTC as a payment option, though they could. Bitcoin kind of sucks for retail because six confirmations can take hours. That is why Bitpay etc exist. It's kind of a tiny market for Paypal though.

More likely is that they would allow you to fund with BTC so you can spend with fiat. This might appeal to people with BTC who prefer it didn't touch down in the banking system before they spend it as fiat. For the exchange risk to be acceptable to Paypal would require a considerably larger, more robust and sophisticated BTC/fiat market than exists at the moment.

People who believe Bitcoin's survival implies the wholesale overturning of the existing financial order are being over dramatic. When a new disruptive technology such as the internet comes along a few big companies who don't adapt go bust and a few new big companies emerge. The rest adapt their businesses and carry on. By and large the rich people stay rich and the poor people stay poor.

[600watt]

what's Paypal business model?

what's his role and what "problem" they solve?

what strategic sense could have for them to add BTC?

Another way for money to flow into their coffers. Of course they are not likely to offer BTC as a payment option, though they could. Bitcoin kind of sucks for retail because six confirmations can take hours. That is why Bitpay etc exist. It's kind of a tiny market for Paypal though.

More likely is that they would allow you to fund with BTC so you can spend with fiat. This might appeal to people with BTC who prefer it didn't touch down in the banking system before they spend it as fiat. For the exchange risk to be acceptable to Paypal would require a considerably larger, more robust and sophisticated BTC/fiat market than exists at the moment.

People who believe Bitcoin's survival implies the wholesale overturning of the existing financial order are being over dramatic. When a new disruptive technology such as the internet comes along a few big companies who don't adapt go bust and a few new big companies emerge. The rest adapt their businesses and carry on. By and large the rich people stay rich and the poor people stay poor.

true

[seleme]

1000+ easily if they would accept Bitcoin as funding option. It would be huge thing, even a hint about it caused 20-30$ rise yesterday. Long way to go though.

[ElectricMucus]

If they do it and they do it in a currency agnostic way it could be very beneficial.

But it will not happen until our exchanges confirm to industry standards (ie forex)

[just1nmc]

I'm interested to see if this puts more pressure on Western Union, who has already shown interest. Even if Paypal has no plans right now, the statement could still have an impact.

[600watt]

I don't know what would happen - but appearance of this kind of fantasy threads is a bearish indicator.

Right on Or how to transform a message of rejection into a message of acceptance. The CEO of paypal just said openly they kick anyone out who touches bitcoin and if it continues to grow they will just launch their own cryptocurrency.  

i don´t think a company owned crypto will do. what is the difference between a fiat central bank and a company creating it´s own crypto...?

[RationalSpeculator]

i don´t think a company owned crypto will do. what is the difference between a fiat central bank and a company creating it´s own crypto...?

That's not the question/issue of this thread.

[BitcoinAshley]

I voted "<100" just for teh lulz.

But really. Having trouble comprehending how Paypal/WU could use Bitcoin?
1) Offer their regular service at their regular price

2) Use bitcoin INTERNALLY

3) Reduce overhead involved with transferring USD

4) People will still use it, since they "trust" paypal but they don't have the knowledge/don't trust bitcoin. Paypal takes the risk of bitcoin and sheep get to continue using their USD, it's just that now Paypal has increased their profit margin by a significant amount.

And yes, they are big boys, they know how to not get burned by exchange rate fluctuations. It's not like we don't already have thriving companies that have figured out how to manage.

That's just one of many options. They could also decide to become an exchange, wallet provider, or both. Of course they would provide a front-end that would be very vanilla and regulated compared to bitcoin - i.e. might only allow transfer to Paypal bitcoin accounts, would require identification, etc. etc. It would be like a watered-down version of Bitcoin for the sheep. Hey, still better than no bitcoin.

Again, just several options/ideas and I'm sure their executives are dreaming up strategies to incorporate it without driving people to actually abandon Paypal completely in favor of bitcoin.

I could see them launching their own cryptocurrency to compete with bitcoin but of course it would be centralized and price would be heavily controlled so I doubt that would really take off, especially with Paypal's fraudulent record as it is. They could also launch their own cryptocurrency but allow it to be exchanged with BTC. It'd be hilarious to see how this would play out, though.

[Rampion]

I voted "<100" just for teh lulz.

But really. Having trouble comprehending how Paypal/WU could use Bitcoin?
1) Offer their regular service at their regular price

2) Use bitcoin INTERNALLY

3) Reduce overhead involved with transferring USD

4) People will still use it, since they "trust" paypal but they don't have the knowledge/don't trust bitcoin. Paypal takes the risk of bitcoin and sheep get to continue using their USD, it's just that now Paypal has increased their profit margin by a significant amount.

And yes, they are big boys, they know how to not get burned by exchange rate fluctuations. It's not like we don't already have thriving companies that have figured out how to manage.

That's just one of many options. They could also decide to become an exchange, wallet provider, or both. Of course they would provide a front-end that would be very vanilla and regulated compared to bitcoin - i.e. might only allow transfer to Paypal bitcoin accounts, would require identification, etc. etc. It would be like a watered-down version of Bitcoin for the sheep. Hey, still better than no bitcoin.

Again, just several options/ideas and I'm sure their executives are dreaming up strategies to incorporate it without driving people to actually abandon Paypal completely in favor of bitcoin.

I could see them launching their own cryptocurrency to compete with bitcoin but of course it would be centralized and price would be heavily controlled so I doubt that would really take off, especially with Paypal's fraudulent record as it is. They could also launch their own cryptocurrency but allow it to be exchanged with BTC. It'd be hilarious to see how this would play out, though.

sorry for being harsh but you have no clue of what you are talking about.

1) What do you mean by Paypal uses bitcoin "internally"? BTC is a problem for Paypal, because it's REAL money. If you fuck up, you loose big time, because BTC transactions are irreversible. USD transaction in their network… Well, it's something they can control 100%, do chargebacks, etc. etc. etc.

2) THERE IS NO OVERHEAD IN TRANSFERRING USD INSIDE THE PAYPAL NETWORK - and by the way there's no overhead in transferring electronic money through the banking system in general. Is just electronic accounting, they delete X amount from A and add that amount to B. There's nothing easier than electronic FIAT.

3) Paypal takes the risk of using bitcoin, and thus they increased their profit margin significantly? What are you talking about?

[lebing]

X-posted from my other post:

"The real value for the consumer here is the FDIC insured, household brand name wallet that makes them feel safe and cuddly when they hold their bitcoins there. Make no mistake about it, this is the smart and only play."

The biggest hole in bitcoin right now (for the majority of online users) is security and Paypal fills this hole with flying colors. They dont have to do anything else and people will happily pay 1-3% on every transaction just for the peace of mind of knowing its in a safe place and you dont have to be an expert in cryptography to store it. This is a no brainer in terms of strategy.

[TimJBenham]

1) What do you mean by Paypal uses bitcoin "internally"? BTC is a problem for Paypal, because it's REAL money. If you fuck up, you loose big time, because BTC transactions are irreversible. USD transaction in their network… Well, it's something they can control 100%, do chargebacks, etc. etc. etc.

Not everything happens in their network. If I like your post so much I decide to pp tip you AUD 10,000 which originates from my bank account and you immediately withdraw it as USD to your bank account then there is a corresponding flow of money from a bank in Australia to Paypal Australia then to Paypal USA then to a bank in the US. This is likely done periodically as the net of inward and outward transfers between the two. It seems unlikely that Bitcoin would be the cheapest way to do this.

2) THERE IS NO OVERHEAD IN TRANSFERRING USD INSIDE THE PAYPAL NETWORK - and by the way there's no overhead in transferring electronic money through the banking system in general. Is just electronic accounting, they delete X amount from A and add that amount to B. There's nothing easier than electronic FIAT.

Which is why fiat is better than Bitcoin, if you can trust the people in charge.

[Rampion]

X-posted from my other post:

"The real value for the consumer here is the FDIC insured, household brand name wallet that makes them feel safe and cuddly when they hold their bitcoins there. Make no mistake about it, this is the smart and only play."

The biggest hole in bitcoin right now (for the majority of online users) is security and Paypal fills this hole with flying colors. They dont have to do anything else and people will happily pay 1-3% on every transaction just for the peace of mind of knowing its in a safe place and you dont have to be an expert in cryptography to store it. This is a no brainer in terms of strategy.

So you propose Paypal to become a "bitcoin bank". They guarantee your funds for a %. It's indeed a service needed for a BTC wider adoption, but it is not Paypal's core business. And BTW, Paypal's core business is endangered by BTC, just because Paypal is that "trusted third-party" you don't need any more to transfer your money electronically.

[hacknoid]

Paypal has two big problems with the rise of bitcoin:

1) bitcoin replaces the need for paypal in many cases

2) Western Union - who is competition for PP - is looking at integrating bitcoin into their system (and for them it makes sense - walk up to a WU counter and send $200 to a bitcoin address... done, with their commission added on top).

Traditionally if large companies see competition or valuable technology originate outside of them, they will try to buy it up (buy out the company).  Since they can't with bitcoin, what other choice do they have than try to incorporate it into their business model?  I don't know if they can see exactly how to do it right now, but I think they are trying to figure out how they can, to fend off at least some of this threat.

[lebing]

X-posted from my other post:

"The real value for the consumer here is the FDIC insured, household brand name wallet that makes them feel safe and cuddly when they hold their bitcoins there. Make no mistake about it, this is the smart and only play."

The biggest hole in bitcoin right now (for the majority of online users) is security and Paypal fills this hole with flying colors. They dont have to do anything else and people will happily pay 1-3% on every transaction just for the peace of mind of knowing its in a safe place and you dont have to be an expert in cryptography to store it. This is a no brainer in terms of strategy.

So you propose Paypal to become a "bitcoin bank". They guarantee your funds for a %. It's indeed a service needed for a BTC wider adoption, but it is not Paypal's core business. And BTW, Paypal's core business is endangered by BTC, just because Paypal is that "trusted third-party" you don't need any more to transfer your money electronically.

Well, more than simply guarantee your funds (as you say, act as a bank of sorts), they also get back their status as an all in one payment solution (they were that before bitcoin...).

Also, It's clear you dont need Paypal to send bitcoin - you dont need paypal to send cash either (wire transfer), but there is a value add in the service they provide. This is enough niche for them to continue making billions as a financial services beast, whether we like it or not.

edited for clarity

[Rampion]

X-posted from my other post:

"The real value for the consumer here is the FDIC insured, household brand name wallet that makes them feel safe and cuddly when they hold their bitcoins there. Make no mistake about it, this is the smart and only play."

The biggest hole in bitcoin right now (for the majority of online users) is security and Paypal fills this hole with flying colors. They dont have to do anything else and people will happily pay 1-3% on every transaction just for the peace of mind of knowing its in a safe place and you dont have to be an expert in cryptography to store it. This is a no brainer in terms of strategy.

So you propose Paypal to become a "bitcoin bank". They guarantee your funds for a %. It's indeed a service needed for a BTC wider adoption, but it is not Paypal's core business. And BTW, Paypal's core business is endangered by BTC, just because Paypal is that "trusted third-party" you don't need any more to transfer your money electronically.

Well, more than guarantee your funds, they also get back their status as an all in one payment solution (they were that before bitcoin...).

That is nonsense, because Bitcoin was designed so you don't need to place any trust on a third-party, thus is a natural enemy for Paypal. Paypal is that "trusted third party" to which you rely in order to transact electronically with your money.

[lebing]

X-posted from my other post:

"The real value for the consumer here is the FDIC insured, household brand name wallet that makes them feel safe and cuddly when they hold their bitcoins there. Make no mistake about it, this is the smart and only play."

The biggest hole in bitcoin right now (for the majority of online users) is security and Paypal fills this hole with flying colors. They dont have to do anything else and people will happily pay 1-3% on every transaction just for the peace of mind of knowing its in a safe place and you dont have to be an expert in cryptography to store it. This is a no brainer in terms of strategy.

So you propose Paypal to become a "bitcoin bank". They guarantee your funds for a %. It's indeed a service needed for a BTC wider adoption, but it is not Paypal's core business. And BTW, Paypal's core business is endangered by BTC, just because Paypal is that "trusted third-party" you don't need any more to transfer your money electronically.

Well, more than guarantee your funds, they also get back their status as an all in one payment solution (they were that before bitcoin...).

That is nonsense, because Bitcoin was designed so you don't need to place any trust on a third-party, thus is a natural enemy for Paypal. Paypal is that "trusted third party" to which you rely in order to transact electronically with your money.

With Bitcoin you don't need to use a third party, but how big is the learning curve to do so with safety?

This is an enormous hurdle - Paypal isn't stupid, they know what the hurdles are and the potential market share + extra margin they could make on the transfers.

[w00t]

I selected "no change".
Though for 9.5.2013 I have target price 167,51 USD per 1 BTC

[101111]

I think we're looking at this wrong.

Paypal doesn't just give Bitcoin cred.

Bitcoin gives Paypal cred as a still on the ball, ahead of the curve, tech savvy, (insert your fav cliche), forward looking financial outfit.

[TimJBenham]

I think we're looking at this wrong.

Paypal doesn't just give Bitcoin cred.

Bitcoin gives Paypal cred as a still on the ball, ahead of the curve, tech savvy, (insert your fav cliche), forward looking financial outfit.

It works both ways. It is like a man and a dog out walking at night; they lend each other respectability.

[alan2here]

Great analogy with the dog.

Also, if Paypall offer some sort of BTC integration this needn't mean they support full chargebacks for all types of BTC transaction.

[virtualfaqs]

I'd never let PayPal handle disputes if I had the choice. Because they obviously don't have a clue about handling virtual transactions and the buyer usually wins. So as a seller, I'd  ask that BTC be sent directly to me. If any buyer wants to go through PayPal to send BTC, I'd think they were a scammer. If the buyer wants some kind of escrow, that's fine. But we're not using PayPal.

[phelix]

[...]
But really. Having trouble comprehending how Paypal/WU could use Bitcoin?
1) Offer their regular service at their regular price
2) Use bitcoin INTERNALLY
3) Reduce overhead involved with transferring USD
[...]

Where do you (and others) get these ideas? He was just talking about a FUNDING OPTION: Send Bitcoins to PayPal, get credited USD minus a fee. Coinheads happy, PayPal happy.

It's interesting to see how open these companies are towards Bitcoin, at least for what they tell the media.

[Zedster]

What do you think?

This will never happen.

Ding ding ding

At least you posted this in the speculation forum 'cause this is not happening anytime soon.