Is Bitfinex turning into Mt. Gox?

[ranlo]

Not really...

Mt Gox was THE most popular and viewed as the safest and reliable exchange that was in the bitcoin world back in 2012-2013. Nobody ever could have predicted that Mt Gox was going to crash - it all seemed to function smoothly a few months before.

I first got into Bitcoin in early/mid 2013. At that point Gox was still touted as the go to place.

After five minutes of googling I discovered the following - In a far off land, check. Completely unregulated, check. Previously hacked, check. Passwords showing up in the browser, check. Legal problems, check. Run by some incomprehensible weirdo on a beach ball, check.

it was perfectly obvious to me that it was a dangerous shit hole so I never went anywhere near it. You would have to have been stunningly dim to trust it. And I'm not saying that with the luxury of hindsight.

I remember when it first started to really look like it was dying. People were saying it was too big to fail. It was still a handful of assholes in a rented office. My feeling that Bitcoiners don't have much to do with the real world persists to this day.

Obviously there was little or no alternative for a long time and Bitcoin wouldn't be where it is without it, but I still went straight to Localbitcoins and stayed there.

And I find it pretty depressing that somewhere as shady as BFX still plays a major role to this day. It should be gone by now.

I think comparing BFX to Gox is a little unfair. Are there some similarities? Sure. But this is the crypto realm -- there are GOING to be similarities, no matter what site you look at. Gox went down because they were insolvent. BFX (at least if their word is correct) is not. Not to mention you can still deposit/withdraw BTC and other cryptos without issue.

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[gentlemand]

I think comparing BFX to Gox is a little unfair. Are there some similarities? Sure. But this is the crypto realm -- there are GOING to be similarities, no matter what site you look at. Gox went down because they were insolvent. BFX (at least if their word is correct) is not. Not to mention you can still deposit/withdraw BTC and other cryptos without issue.

You're right, but it was more of a screed about not trusting any exchange which blatantly has no comebacks.

BFX have managed to stay in the game but I've never been able to understand why they won't be more transparent.

[ranlo]

I think comparing BFX to Gox is a little unfair. Are there some similarities? Sure. But this is the crypto realm -- there are GOING to be similarities, no matter what site you look at. Gox went down because they were insolvent. BFX (at least if their word is correct) is not. Not to mention you can still deposit/withdraw BTC and other cryptos without issue.

You're right, but it was more of a screed about not trusting any exchange which blatantly has no comebacks.

BFX have managed to stay in the game but I've never been able to understand why they won't be more transparent.

Do you mean transparency as in their identities/locations? If so, I've seen that pattern across the crypto realm as well -- maybe related to the businesses being in other countries where social standards are different than in the Western societies? Not really sure on that.

[gentlemand]

Do you mean transparency as in their identities/locations? If so, I've seen that pattern across the crypto realm as well -- maybe related to the businesses being in other countries where social standards are different than in the Western societies? Not really sure on that.

Yup. But also lack of audits, zero updates on the hack other than saying it's 'sensitive', the CEO admitting he trades on the exchange himself, not knowing who anyone is or where they are, their involvement in Tether which is basically a giant regulatory and legal hack that won't survive any genuine pressure or scrutiny, their weirdly convenient string of outages when the market was heating up, and not telling anyone that their banking had failed for nearly two weeks.

None of that is good enough in this day and age.

[pinkflower]

They have suspended all FIAT deposits as well as USD withdrawal.

April 13 Announcement: https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/199

April 17 Announcement: https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/200

Reddit on Panic: https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/65vygu/bitfinex_stopping_money_deposits_while_we_develop/

Well, exchanges are always risky to keep your money on. They do seem a lot more reliable than Mt. Gox though.

Not really...

Mt Gox was THE most popular and viewed as the safest and reliable exchange that was in the bitcoin world back in 2012-2013. Nobody ever could have predicted that Mt Gox was going to crash - it all seemed to function smoothly a few months before.

At least they are not blocking bitcoin withdrawals, if they did that would have basically been the end.

Still though you have to pay a premium to get your bitcoin withdrawn because the price is heavily inflated.

Although I have to add that they claim to have retained full liquidity and there are no issues with the funds themselves - they claim that the funds are in their full possession instead of in Mt. Gox's case they claimed to be hacked. So there's good news for the Bitfinex bitcoin holders out there - although it really depends on whether you believe them or not.

Heres an interesting story line to think about. What if Bitfinex was handed a lawsuit by the Taiwanese government because it claims that the exchange broke AML laws and theyre running an illegal money processor?

That would give us another Gox-like situation, I expect.

[traderethereum]

actually i don't know what is going with gox as i am not already join in bitcoin in that year. but for bitfinex, i think and i hope they can solve their problem so members don't think too much about become scam sites. and if we take a look with their statements in here :

Beginning April 18, 2017, all incoming wires to Bitfinex will be blocked and refused by our Taiwan banks. This applies to all fiat currencies at the present time. Accordingly, we ask customers to avoid sending incoming wires to us until further notice, effective immediately.

We continue to work on alternative solutions for customers that wish to either deposit or withdraw in fiat, and are making progress in this regard. We will continue to update our customers as and when we have more information to share.

i think they are trying to solve and find solutions for customers so their members can continue trading in their sites. so lets give them a time to think about it and let them find the solutions and if we have a good idea to help, then we can send them an email and tells what our idea.

[crazyivan]

Do they still do not allow BTC or Ether withdrawals? I know fiat is out of the question ATM but is crypto moving out possible?

Cause if fiat is the only issue, that s a banking problem. If crypto s locked down as well, that s clear insolvency.

[Bonez0r]

Do they still do not allow BTC or Ether withdrawals? I know fiat is out of the question ATM but is crypto moving out possible?

Cause if fiat is the only issue, that s a banking problem. If crypto s locked down as well, that s clear insolvency.

Why use the word "still"? Moving crypto in or out has never been a problem. The only thing you can't withdraw or deposit is fiat (unless you count USDT).

[crazyivan]

Do they still do not allow BTC or Ether withdrawals? I know fiat is out of the question ATM but is crypto moving out possible?

Cause if fiat is the only issue, that s a banking problem. If crypto s locked down as well, that s clear insolvency.

Why use the word "still"? Moving crypto in or out has never been a problem. The only thing you can't withdraw or deposit is fiat (unless you count USDT).

Cause I was told crypto does not work either. If what you say is true, then there s no need to compare them to Mt.Gox. Having liquidity issues and having issues with banks not cooperating and not supporting crypto projects re completely different issues.

Lets hope they resolve these issues soon.

[ranlo]

Do they still do not allow BTC or Ether withdrawals? I know fiat is out of the question ATM but is crypto moving out possible?

Cause if fiat is the only issue, that s a banking problem. If crypto s locked down as well, that s clear insolvency.

Why use the word "still"? Moving crypto in or out has never been a problem. The only thing you can't withdraw or deposit is fiat (unless you count USDT).

Cause I was told crypto does not work either. If what you say is true, then there s no need to compare them to Mt.Gox. Having liquidity issues and having issues with banks not cooperating and not supporting crypto projects re completely different issues.

Lets hope they resolve these issues soon.

I've never seen anyone say crypto doesn't work. They even stated that crypto is not and will not be an issue (nor have I had one). The entire situation is just dealing with a bank. They still have all the USD, they just need a bank to allow them to send/receive again. Think of it like them holding everyone's fiat in cash -- they have it, they just need a way to move it.

[crairezx20]

Do they still do not allow BTC or Ether withdrawals? I know fiat is out of the question ATM but is crypto moving out possible?

Cause if fiat is the only issue, that s a banking problem. If crypto s locked down as well, that s clear insolvency.

Why use the word "still"? Moving crypto in or out has never been a problem. The only thing you can't withdraw or deposit is fiat (unless you count USDT).

Cause I was told crypto does not work either. If what you say is true, then there s no need to compare them to Mt.Gox. Having liquidity issues and having issues with banks not cooperating and not supporting crypto projects re completely different issues.

Lets hope they resolve these issues soon.

I've never seen anyone say crypto doesn't work. They even stated that crypto is not and will not be an issue (nor have I had one). The entire situation is just dealing with a bank. They still have all the USD, they just need a bank to allow them to send/receive again. Think of it like them holding everyone's fiat in cash -- they have it, they just need a way to move it.

Why they are not move to other bank instead and find a bank that allow to accept send and receive..
So i think looking for other bank is not a problem if they are have concern about their customer and they dont have plan to scam anyone
they should find as soon as possible to move to other bank that accept send and receive outside.. 
Just lets hope that they are doing good or it will be the same as mt.gox.. 

[gentlemand]

Why they are not move to other bank instead and find a bank that allow to accept send and receive..
So i think looking for other bank is not a problem if they are have concern about their customer and they dont have plan to scam anyone

It's not just them that have a problem. Many other payment companies that deal with Taiwan have the same problem. Taiwan is being frozen out of international banking until they improve their regulations. Unless they can find somewhere outside Taiwan they're going to have problems. I assume the reason they bank through there is because it's hard for them to get conventional banking elsewhere. It's not going to be easy.

[socks435]

Why they are not move to other bank instead and find a bank that allow to accept send and receive..
So i think looking for other bank is not a problem if they are have concern about their customer and they dont have plan to scam anyone

It's not just them that have a problem. Many other payment companies that deal with Taiwan have the same problem. Taiwan is being frozen out of international banking until they improve their regulations. Unless they can find somewhere outside Taiwan they're going to have problems. I assume the reason they bank through there is because it's hard for them to get conventional banking elsewhere. It's not going to be easy.

If they are holding a large number of money it will be hard to them to fix this issue it takes time or spend more time to solve their bank issue..
Just lets hope that it will not be the same as other exchange site that was crash and gone after some issue like hack or under ddos attack and gone after few days of fixing,. and never give the money back from their customer..

[gentlemand]

If they are holding a large number of money it will be hard to them to fix this issue it takes time or spend more time to solve their bank issue..
Just lets hope that it will not be the same as other exchange site that was crash and gone after some issue like hack or under ddos attack and gone after few days of fixing,. and never give the money back from their customer..

Even if the banking problem remains, I assume they can find a way to do a one time transfer to give everyone their fiat back. They were talking about doing it through their law firm.

[richardsNY]

If they are holding a large number of money it will be hard to them to fix this issue it takes time or spend more time to solve their bank issue..
Just lets hope that it will not be the same as other exchange site that was crash and gone after some issue like hack or under ddos attack and gone after few days of fixing,. and never give the money back from their customer..

Even if the banking problem remains, I assume they can find a way to do a one time transfer to give everyone their fiat back. They were talking about doing it through their law firm.

I strongly believe that Bitfinex doesn't mind this whole situation to last a longer while as it will allow them to buy more time. Seriously, do you consider it to be coincidence that not long after they paid off their "hack" debt, that they halted USD withdrawals? Even more precise -- is there any victim of the 36% haircut that got refunded in the way that they have got their USD balance credited back?

[pinkflower]

Not really...

Mt Gox was THE most popular and viewed as the safest and reliable exchange that was in the bitcoin world back in 2012-2013. Nobody ever could have predicted that Mt Gox was going to crash - it all seemed to function smoothly a few months before.

I first got into Bitcoin in early/mid 2013. At that point Gox was still touted as the go to place.

After five minutes of googling I discovered the following - In a far off land, check. Completely unregulated, check. Previously hacked, check. Passwords showing up in the browser, check. Legal problems, check. Run by some incomprehensible weirdo on a beach ball, check.

it was perfectly obvious to me that it was a dangerous shit hole so I never went anywhere near it. You would have to have been stunningly dim to trust it. And I'm not saying that with the luxury of hindsight.

I remember when it first started to really look like it was dying. People were saying it was too big to fail. It was still a handful of assholes in a rented office. My feeling that Bitcoiners don't have much to do with the real world persists to this day.

Obviously there was little or no alternative for a long time and Bitcoin wouldn't be where it is without it, but I still went straight to Localbitcoins and stayed there.

And I find it pretty depressing that somewhere as shady as BFX still plays a major role to this day. It should be gone by now.

I think comparing BFX to Gox is a little unfair. Are there some similarities? Sure. But this is the crypto realm -- there are GOING to be similarities, no matter what site you look at. Gox went down because they were insolvent. BFX (at least if their word is correct) is not. Not to mention you can still deposit/withdraw BTC and other cryptos without issue.

Yeah it might be a little bit unfair to compare Bitfinex with Mtgox but the sting of losing your money because you fully trusted Bitfinex is very the same and very comparable to the sting youll feel losing your money somewhere else.

[pinkflower]

Do they still do not allow BTC or Ether withdrawals? I know fiat is out of the question ATM but is crypto moving out possible?

Cause if fiat is the only issue, that s a banking problem. If crypto s locked down as well, that s clear insolvency.

Why use the word "still"? Moving crypto in or out has never been a problem. The only thing you can't withdraw or deposit is fiat (unless you count USDT).

Cause I was told crypto does not work either. If what you say is true, then there s no need to compare them to Mt.Gox. Having liquidity issues and having issues with banks not cooperating and not supporting crypto projects re completely different issues.

Lets hope they resolve these issues soon.

I've never seen anyone say crypto doesn't work. They even stated that crypto is not and will not be an issue (nor have I had one). The entire situation is just dealing with a bank. They still have all the USD, they just need a bank to allow them to send/receive again. Think of it like them holding everyone's fiat in cash -- they have it, they just need a way to move it.

Are there any more updates on their banking situation? Is Bitfinex going to move the funds to a new bank? Do they even have a new bank ready to accept them as a client? Its taking too long if the problem is a simple banking problem. Maybe someone should contact the Taiwanese bank to see if Bitfinex's account is frozen.

[ranlo]

Do they still do not allow BTC or Ether withdrawals? I know fiat is out of the question ATM but is crypto moving out possible?

Cause if fiat is the only issue, that s a banking problem. If crypto s locked down as well, that s clear insolvency.

Why use the word "still"? Moving crypto in or out has never been a problem. The only thing you can't withdraw or deposit is fiat (unless you count USDT).

Cause I was told crypto does not work either. If what you say is true, then there s no need to compare them to Mt.Gox. Having liquidity issues and having issues with banks not cooperating and not supporting crypto projects re completely different issues.

Lets hope they resolve these issues soon.

I've never seen anyone say crypto doesn't work. They even stated that crypto is not and will not be an issue (nor have I had one). The entire situation is just dealing with a bank. They still have all the USD, they just need a bank to allow them to send/receive again. Think of it like them holding everyone's fiat in cash -- they have it, they just need a way to move it.

Are there any more updates on their banking situation? Is Bitfinex going to move the funds to a new bank? Do they even have a new bank ready to accept them as a client? Its taking too long if the problem is a simple banking problem. Maybe someone should contact the Taiwanese bank to see if Bitfinex's account is frozen.

Banking problems are never "easy" when you are dealing with international transfers. Even getting a bank to allow international transfers usually requires jumping through hoops. Then add in the Taiwanese issues and it's compounded.

[crazyivan]

I think nobody in crypto economy would benefit from additional inflation of this issue. So let s keep as it is, stay positive and hope it ll get resolved quite soon. I really do not think they will turn into another Mt.Gox.

[pinkflower]

Do they still do not allow BTC or Ether withdrawals? I know fiat is out of the question ATM but is crypto moving out possible?

Cause if fiat is the only issue, that s a banking problem. If crypto s locked down as well, that s clear insolvency.

Why use the word "still"? Moving crypto in or out has never been a problem. The only thing you can't withdraw or deposit is fiat (unless you count USDT).

Cause I was told crypto does not work either. If what you say is true, then there s no need to compare them to Mt.Gox. Having liquidity issues and having issues with banks not cooperating and not supporting crypto projects re completely different issues.

Lets hope they resolve these issues soon.

I've never seen anyone say crypto doesn't work. They even stated that crypto is not and will not be an issue (nor have I had one). The entire situation is just dealing with a bank. They still have all the USD, they just need a bank to allow them to send/receive again. Think of it like them holding everyone's fiat in cash -- they have it, they just need a way to move it.

Are there any more updates on their banking situation? Is Bitfinex going to move the funds to a new bank? Do they even have a new bank ready to accept them as a client? Its taking too long if the problem is a simple banking problem. Maybe someone should contact the Taiwanese bank to see if Bitfinex's account is frozen.

Banking problems are never "easy" when you are dealing with international transfers. Even getting a bank to allow international transfers usually requires jumping through hoops. Then add in the Taiwanese issues and it's compounded.

Then would that mean theres a chance all the users' funds thats being held by Bitfinex will be frozen for a longer period of time than we have anticipated? What if 90% of all Bitfinex users leave the exchange and withdraw everything they have in BTC, ETH, LTC and ETC? Maybe thats the reason why those cryptocurrencies are being pumped.