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Author Topic: Please bail me out - I'm an idiot bought mining gear at the peak  (Read 19444 times)
smell
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June 18, 2011, 09:50:33 AM
 #21

Is there a calculator which will allow u to put reasonable difficulty increases in the formula?

Mine does that, it defaults to the current estimated difficulty increase.  http://bitcoinstuff.appspot.com
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June 18, 2011, 10:00:34 AM
 #22

Imagine if you had that same 10k at mtgox with the prices dropping. Buying and holding is so much easier on your life in everyway possible. I learned the hard way as well. Luckily I got in earlier than you it looks like and I'm not facing huge losses for my mistake. But I could have easily made triple what I recovered from mining + equipment cost had I just bought outright.  Undecided
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June 18, 2011, 10:26:10 AM
 #23

I'm one of the newbs who got a bunch of 6870s and have em running.. 3.6 gigahash installed, and im calling newegg monday to see what i can return unopened.  I may keep a small farm going just for shits and grins but at chicago power rates of 15 kWh and 20% difficulty increases every 14 days I will never recover my costs (not even close).

Extra equipment i bought:

700$ electrician work, (individual circuits, breaking out circuits near a window for good airflow, etc)
100$ various fans
50$ tables/benches
80$ 16 port switch
10000$ computer equipment (6870 radeons, motherboards, semprons, 1000w power supplies, PCIe risers, ethernet cables etc)
40 hours work setting it up
(insurance, risk of fire/flood damage, massive heat generated, the 50 flies that are in my house because i opened a window near my set up to deal with heat)

Chicago electricity:  15c/ kWh (this is my #1 cost and its MAJOR)

Basically I'm in hell.. I'm praying for a miracle and all i see is MORE posts about people buying 6990's and other cards that are even LESS efficient than mine.. and I now realize that i'm basically up against a bunch of enthusiasts who really dont care about the economics of this at all, they just think its 'cool'

If anyone needs any of this equipment please make me an offer near newegg type prices, I will give advice on how to set it up, etc.  You can pay me paypal, bitcoin, cash, however.  I would like to move this stuff in bulk if possible, if you are planning on starting an operation or are a reseller, etc.  

I can help with running it, I have a about 3.5 gigahash mining right now rest is in boxes, unopened.  If you are in a lower cost state or mooching off a college campus you can probably run this profitably.





Should've read my threads first, idiot.
BombaUcigasa
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June 18, 2011, 10:35:05 AM
 #24

Was there a reason of efficiency to go full capacity with no incremental purchases?

Check your power company, if they offer night/day rates you can save 15-20% of your electric bill.

Also if you want be more efficient, run fewer machines but overclocked (you get 10-15% more efficient with the cost increase included).

Some people are selling mining contracts. You already have the gear, if you feel that the bitcoin value might go down, you can sell your hashes for dollars, getting power bill money in advance.
yoake
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June 18, 2011, 11:07:48 AM
 #25

How much are the 6870's?  Grin
Gameover
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June 18, 2011, 01:15:40 PM
 #26

Take the long view. We haven't hit the actual peak yet. Mine and hold, if you can afford to.

If your electricity costs are too high, cut back mining until you can afford it.

It's going to hurt, in the short term, to eat that $10k of computer hardware, but in the long term, It will be worth it. In the meantime, you could, I donno.. cure cancer with folding@home or something.

Very bad advice and total speculation.  As difficulty increases and people generate less BTC and money per day the excitement will fade and so will peoples use and interest in bitcoin, the price will drop, use of bitcoin will drop.  This is only one scenario and is just as likely as the value of BTC increasing, no one knows.  If I have ever seen anything that resembles the Tulip Boom though, this is it, do some reading if you are not familiar.  The mere fact that you bought at the peak with no notion of a crash or difficulty increase is evidence enough you are not cut out for this endeavor and should return all merchandise IMO.

My long opinion is that the value of BTC will hold fast to at or below the average cost of power required to mine them, all value above that currently is massive speculation and when that unwinds the price will drop.  The value will go below power cost because of utility of already generated coins and many people don't have to pay for power or hardware.

Another very large unknown is security, with no government to create laws and more importantly enforce them with regards to stealing bitcoins, it is just like the wild west, people are stealing them and then the victims are creating lynch mobs and trying to go after them, except with absolutely no recourse as there are no laws pertaining to bitcoins.  People tout the decentralized nature of bitcoin as its greatest attribute, that may be true, but is also its greatest weakness.
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June 18, 2011, 02:07:57 PM
 #27

WOW and here is me being tight about thinking about spending £300 to give me 1k+ mhash. Im 100% going shopping. at worst I get left with a good gaming rig

I Already have a room that has its own 32a 240v line well I say room more like outbuilding. (was for another project but never finished because of time. so heat noise etc is not an issue.

Really I should try and get a few investors to limit my loss if any to go in with me on hardware on some kinda share not for just 1k mhash tho. For quite a bit more power.

for me to hit around 10kmhash I worked it out at around (this is a quick est)

£2400  for gfx cards
£270    for cpu's
£550   motherboards
£160    Ram
£400    power
£270    HD
and say an extra 500 or so for cables extras etc . I already have loads of networking kit spare
£4550

and that would make me If the market stayed around what it is now with the hardness increase. 2 months back for my investment. Just money I would not risk myself. And I doubt any Investors are coming forward any time soon Smiley

per Day   ฿11.47   $174.62
per Week   ฿83.60   $1,273.30
per Month   ฿348.56   $5,308.59

But for anyone that has done this and made there cash back + extra well done to ya. Wish I got in there earlier.
evlew
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June 18, 2011, 03:57:47 PM
 #28

Here's my experience.

I bought my first rig for about 850 and it pushes 1.2Ghash nicely.  I felt it was very efficient.  I had this up and running on Wednesday the 8th.  As soon as I had my first paid out coin I ordered two more.. However 5830's were out of stock so i went with 6870 which do the same hash rate, but 25watts less energy, I belieive.  However they were quite a bit more expensive then the 5830's.

I essentially spent 1800-2000 more dollars to get the other 2 rigs setup.  I have some money coming back in rebates, so I almost got it down to as cheap as my first one.  

I'll admit, when it was at 32 i'm singing in my head.  But when it dropped to 9, I was beginning to get really nervous.

Luckily my friend called me that day and said, how much to build me a miner.  Knowing that difficulty was going up fast I agreed to let him be co-owner of one of my rigs for 575.00.  He is half owner of the equipment, and houses it at his house, since I am about out of juice in my tiny apartment.  We are splitting power costs and doing 55/45 split on the coins.  This made me feel a lot better as, a little of the weight had been lifted.  But I still have enough confidence in bitcoins that now i'm wondering if I screwed myself by giving away some hashing power.

Either way, I think 3000mhps for me is good.  I am a total computer nerd (system admin as a living) and I am super fast and efficient at learning new things.  Hardware was essentially cake walk.  Overclocking/Underclocking through the BIOS was a 5 minute session.  You need to get that stuff up and running if you have it.... or get rid of it if your not efficient enough.  I thought mining would be easy, but it is a challenge, I will not lie.

I just want you to feel better, knowing there are plenty of other people out there, in your situation.  and $910 per 1200mhps is a decent build!

Get the ones you have running more efficient, build whatever your comfortable with and sell the rest.  I think if you get up and running now with minimal downtime you still have a chance.

but me.... I am comfortable eating a little depreciation on a few thousand dollars.  I figure if worse comes to worse bitcoin profits will covers the depreciation and then all i've lost essentially is my time.
AngelusWebDesign
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June 18, 2011, 04:05:12 PM
 #29

Like I said before, the best answer to the important question "to Mine, or not to Mine" is personal, and varies by individual.

I built my last rig essentially on my lunch break yesterday! Actually, I threw together TWO systems yesterday; one was in an actual case and involved building from scratch; the other was an old Dell motherboard that just needed a few things plugged in and an OS installed. But I got two systems built, running Linux AND mining software, in a couple hours. I have actual experience and talent in this department, just like many others on this Mining sub-forum.

ACTUALLY, I should rephrase that. It didn't take 2 hours from start to finish -- it just took 2 hours of my time. You see, I work from home so I can keep the Linux install "cooking" while I do my day's work. I can also keep an eye on my miners -- even the rigs themselves (cooling, etc.) which comes in handy!

If I actually worked outside the home, I wouldn't have the option to install software while I work.
Departure
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June 18, 2011, 04:33:44 PM
 #30

I feel for you bro, I guess it will come down to getting your 30 day return policy or gamble on bitcoin going up (difficulty wont drop). just keep in mind why the bitcoin went up in price in the first place... "Silk Road" and the media frenzy, I dont see them pulling another media wild card out of the hat, Faith is what keeps these dreamers alive, but truthfully it will go down and stay down for a long time before it goes up again...

P.s I am in similar situation but only sacrificed $3000 on 1 system (3 x 6990). I worked out I would loose $2000 if I keep mining, but I end up with a really cool gaming machine Smiley

P.s.s thats if I don't melt my cards they reach temps of 100c+... im using hashkiller so it disables the 100c+ GPU's while it lets the others work. and yes I have a very well ventilated box "coolmaster HAFX" but temps still rocket...

bcpokey
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June 18, 2011, 04:48:29 PM
 #31

Imagine if you had that same 10k at mtgox with the prices dropping. Buying and holding is so much easier on your life in everyway possible. I learned the hard way as well. Luckily I got in earlier than you it looks like and I'm not facing huge losses for my mistake. But I could have easily made triple what I recovered from mining + equipment cost had I just bought outright.  Undecided

Your statement reads to me as confusing. If the OP had bought in @ $30 and watched the coins plumet to $15 he'd have $5000 worth of coins now. Bitcoin prices can go... anywhere. Back to 30, up to 10000, or down below 1. OP doesn't sound like the patient optimistic type with $10,000 he can have lying around without regards for months or whatever potential time it would take to get back above $30.

Perhaps you bought in around march? In what way would you have made triple? In march prices were about $1 per coin? Let's say that. And prices were $30 per coin around Jun7th right? Difficulty was around 70,000 I believe.

So lets say you bought a mining rig on whenever and got it running march 7th, and you bought some coins on whenever around march 7th as prices were pretty flat until around april.

You could build mining rigs for about 1.7Mhash/$ pretty easily back in march, so let's compare a $10,000 buy:

$10,000 -- 10,000 coins vs 15GHash (bein generous with overheads other than rigs to compare to OPs costs), and use 15¢/kWh like OP, $26.64/day costs.

March 7th: Miner 0BTC $10000Debt , Buyer 10,000BTC $10000 Debt.

2 difficulty changes, both minor, avging to 80k difficulty generates 5,733 bitcoins in a month

April 7th: Miner 5,733BTC $10799Debt, Buyer10,000BTC $10000 Debt.

2 difficulty changes, both reasonable, averaging 90k difficulty generates 5,096 bitcoins in a month

May 7th: Miner 10,829BTC $11598Debt, Buyer10,000BTC $10000 Debt.

Here is where things got crazy, 4 difficulty changes, ending at 400k difficulty. for ease of my lazy brain will calculate whole month at 300k to be generous again.  Generating 1528 coins in a month.

June 7th: Miner 12357BTC $12397Debt, Buyer10,000BTC $10000Debt


If the buyer cashes out on June 7th smartly surmising the $30 bubble line, he is still $70,000 behind the miner. If you assume the miner cashed out to cover his costs each month the miner still has 11292 coins on june 7th, putting him $40,000 ahead of the buyer. This is a far cry from making 1/3rd as much. Not to mention even at todays difficulty rate a 15GHash machine produces 125BTC/wk

Your scenario is only true if you assume a miner must cash out immediately the moment he has generated coin all the time. Which doesn't make sense. If you have $ you can just let sit in the market, why couldn't you let your $ sit in easily resalable machines? If you were so finnicky about money that you need to see it recovered INSTANTLY would you really have been able to see bitcoin prices surge up, then make huge drops and not sell off? In the optimum scenario of a terrified miner vs a super bold coin investor maybe your statement makes sense, but otherwise not.
epi 1:10,000
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June 18, 2011, 05:22:41 PM
 #32

and I now realize that i'm basically up against a bunch of enthusiasts who really dont care about the economics of this at all, they just think its 'cool'


yep,  I think they are also in love with the idea and its broader implications.
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June 18, 2011, 05:35:02 PM
 #33

I spent 1000 and my hashing power is 1.2 ghash. Well, what can I say.... Mining is not for the faint of heart.

RDD RjBUYX75fvQ1yeSDJPkuB5wU35etvZ9JES
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June 18, 2011, 06:08:26 PM
 #34

How the hell did you manage to spend what, $12,000 on 3600mhash?

It seems like you didn't research computer parts at all to be frank. The *only* thing that needs to be of pretty high quality is the motherboard and PSU. The graphics cards can be anything from 5770s and 5830's to 6990's. The processor can be a sempron, the RAM can be some cheap 512MB stick etc.

*All* my expenses so far have been a little over 8,800€ euros (give or take) and I run a total of 15ghash/s, plus I've paid a monthly rent at a datacenter for a long time.

1f3gHNoBodYw1LLs3ndY0UanYB1tC0lnsBec4USeYoU9AREaCH34PBeGgAR67fx
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June 18, 2011, 06:39:12 PM
 #35

Wow some of you guys haven't even read his post. He has EXTRA costs along with equipment and doesn't have most of his equipment setup yet. Anyway, I would sell while you can. Difficulty is going to sky rocket and the prices will be remaining as they are. That 25 BTC per block is coming sooner than you think because of over mining. When that happens, everyone is going to take a 50% loss compared to what they are bringing in now regardless of how much hashing power they have.
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June 18, 2011, 06:49:02 PM
 #36

Wow some of you guys haven't even read his post. He has EXTRA costs along with equipment and doesn't have most of his equipment setup yet. Anyway, I would sell while you can. Difficulty is going to sky rocket and the prices will be remaining as they are. That 25 BTC per block is coming sooner than you think because of over mining. When that happens, everyone is going to take a 50% loss compared to what they are bringing in now regardless of how much hashing power they have.

Listen to this man.

Seriously just sell whatever you can as quickly as you can. No-one here giving you honest advice to this effect is being one of those dipshits who always has to chime in with "YA SELL YOUR STUFF, MAKES IT EASIER ON THE REST OF US HURRRRR, HURRRR."

Nah man, straight to you, just get out while you absolutely can.

And I'm just going to help you through the thoughts of loss and shit.  It's gonna hurt, it really will.

I'm a chronically impulsive person myself and I've made some stupid, stupid impulse buys before. Some I recovered from, others were a total loss. Every time though, what felt the best was just that it was over and that I COULD MOVE ON.

And that's what you really need to realize if this is something that's going to be causeing you stress. Just get out, and you will feel like a new man again. Set some new goals, reflect on yourself awhile, connect with friends and family, talk about it if you need to, but just get through it.

In the end, it's just money, and money ain't shit compared to family and friends.

Be wise with your time.
evlew
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June 18, 2011, 06:53:14 PM
 #37

How the hell did you manage to spend what, $12,000 on 3600mhash?

try reading the thread.

HE DOESNT HAVE IT ALL RUNNING!  And what he does have running is very inefficient.  Aka... not over/underclocked.
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June 18, 2011, 07:16:49 PM
 #38

Spending $10k, then wanting to bail a week later... Did you not do any research about bitcoin mining before spending a gratuitous amount?
BombaUcigasa
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June 18, 2011, 07:47:27 PM
 #39

Spending $10k, then wanting to bail a week later... Did you not do any research about bitcoin mining before spending a gratuitous amount?
I'm ok with this kind of behaviour. Not adding rationale to purchasing impulses, and not adding rationale to fear impulses, will disadvantage people that rely on their instincts instead of their education and thinking. Better "luck" next time. Life is hard.

Also, OP, read what everyone said on this thread, think first man!
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June 18, 2011, 08:07:35 PM
 #40

Look, this guy really provided no proof he's even in this predicament and can't you all agree we've given him enough attention already?
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