LocalBitcoins BTC sellers being taken to court and pleading guilty

[StinkyLover]

 
http://www.coindesk.com/localbitcoins-user-pleads-guilty-undercover-sting/

Best to hold till mainstream adoption! at least in the US

[1713507618]

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[sp_skeptic]

So what are the rules on privately buying/selling BTC/cryptos? Were these people now facing charges doing something other than what every other user of LocalBitcoins does? Are there really any rules at all?

Bitfinex suspends cash withdrawls. Coinbase reduces their deposit/withdrawal limit from $10000/day to $15000/week for their highest level of verification. LocalBitcoins users prosecuted. Is there a pattern here?

Are we heading for a point where fiat prices of bitcoin and other cryptos are purely imaginary because there will be no legal way to cash out?

[iamTom123]

So what are the rules on privately buying/selling BTC/cryptos? Were these people now facing charges doing something other than what every other user of LocalBitcoins does? Are there really any rules at all? Bitfinex suspends cash withdrawls. Coinbase reduces their deposit/withdrawal limit from $10000/day to $15000/week for their highest level of verification. LocalBitcoins users prosecuted. Is there a pattern here? Are we heading for a point where fiat prices of bitcoin and other cryptos are purely imaginary because there will be no legal way to cash out?

That would really be sad. What we are experiencing here are clash of power because there are resistance to the changes the Bitcoin are bringing. When authorities feel that they can't control Bitcoin itself, they are now trying many ways and means to undermine the said currency.

That is why it is quite a big good news that Japan is now officially recognizing Bitcoin as a form of payment. Hope that soon other big countries would follow suit and would lay down the rules for the general public to follow regarding Bitcoin and other altcoins.

Wish as we might, we could never live in a bubble. Bitcoin is decentralized yes but we still need the traditional infrastructures to move the money in and out. And in fact, we still need fiat money to buy Bitcoin.

[CoinHoarder]

That sucks, but it is not surprising. You need to jump through the legal hoops in order to exchange cryptocoins for FIAT in the USA. It was only a matter of time before the government started to go after those who don't do so. As far as USA faced buyers and sellers... when enforcement really ramps up, and this is only the beginning, then Localbitcoins will eventually be a ghost town. We will be stuck with Coinbase, et al.

It is a shame really. Local Bitcoins is such a convenient and fast way to exchange some coinage...

[Yuhee]

That sucks, but it is not surprising. You need to jump through the legal hoops in order to exchange cryptocoins for FIAT in the USA. It was only a matter of time before the government started to go after those who don't do so. As far as USA faced buyers and sellers... when enforcement really ramps up, and this is only the beginning, then Localbitcoins will eventually be a ghost town. We will be stuck with Coinbase, et al.

It is a shame really. Local Bitcoins is such a convenient and fast way to exchange some coinage...

Well this just proves that btc is really just for an online transaction and can only be used if u converted it through online then you can use it for goods. $1490+ is a high value that is just roaming in the streets. Taking it out in the open would make the coin vulnerable. This also proves that is already considered a threat by authorities. But this is just of reports regarding the disposition of a coin. Let's wait for some speculations on what other effects can a btc give if traded like that.

[imtav]

The issue is that the government knows this is an easy way to hide income.  When involving fiat, they want all transactions to be completed on a ledger that they can get their hands on when needed (ie your bank account).  Just keep your withdrawals under $5000

[Immakillya]

Ouch! Thats sad for localbitcoin users out there in the US. So i guess exchanges are still the best option to buy BTC. Thats not new to me tho. Just use exchangers for now until US government totally legalised bitcoin. Afaik bitcoin legalisation still on process in US. But luckily im not from US.

[botany]

Why doesn't the US just shut down/ block localbitcoins, if anybody selling coins is guilty of running an unlicensed money transfer business?
It would provide clarity and make life less uncertain for Bitcoin users.

[Bitware]

But you can use Bitcoin to buy $30,000 in merchandise then sell said merchandise for cash.

Strange world we live in.

[Amph]

this what happened to burt, i suspect they caught him with an insider that trade with him on localbitcoin, i guess he was moving again a large sum

but still i can't see anything illegal in exchange a big amount to fiat if you are going to claim it later anyway, what's all this thing about money trasmitting?

as far as i know it should happly only to merchants and not to private users, certainly it's different in europe

[Nagadota]

Why doesn't the US just shut down/ block localbitcoins, if anybody selling coins is guilty of running an unlicensed money transfer business?
It would provide clarity and make life less uncertain for Bitcoin users.

I think they'd rather give the illusion of Internet freedom to their citizens.  Regardless, I don't think everyone who does a transaction on there is running an unlicensed money transfer business, just merchants and whales. 

I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of other governments cracking down on LocalBitcoins transfers.  Transferring with cash is an easy way to avoid taxes and they're going to want to regulate it pretty heavily if Bitcoin keeps growing.

[buwaytress]

Pretty typical of enforcement to go for the street-level transactors. If they really wanted to do the right thing, then get localbitcoin in US to require some form of KYC or tax diligence on US users. This only pushes away the real "bad guys", making it harder for them to be ferreted out.

[markj113]

Land of the free.

Laughable if it wasnt so sad.

[Nagadota]

Land of the free.

Laughable if it wasnt so sad.

The phrase is delusional.  The police and governments are much harsher than in most European countries and the brand of "freedom" is forcibly brought to countries all the time as an excuse for war on their side.

It says a lot about the monetary system that the US government is so desperate to appear liberal while undermining Bitcoin users.

[Arcteryx]

Some weird transgressions happening in the bitcoin world lately.
This ain't your fathers bitcoin anymore I am afraid to guess what is happening to our coins usage now a days.
 

[darkangel11]

Land of the free.

Laughable if it wasnt so sad.

All the 3 letter agencies have to finance their operations somehow, so they are going where the money are. Bitcoiners are supposed to be rich, so they're a perfect target.
Just pick one of the traders, charge them with something, like said money transmitting (which is a complete bullshit, since bitcoin is officially not a currency) and confiscate their computers to steal the coins. This is nothing but theft, because there's actually no law that these people are breaking. They don't need a license to transmit money, because they are selling a commodity.

Klein faces as many as five years in prison and $250,000 in fines.
They don't care about prison, it's those 250k they're after.

[botany]

Land of the free.

Laughable if it wasnt so sad.

All the 3 letter agencies have to finance their operations somehow, so they are going where the money are. Bitcoiners are supposed to be rich, so they're a perfect target.
Just pick one of the traders, charge them with something, like said money transmitting (which is a complete bullshit, since bitcoin is officially not a currency) and confiscate their computers to steal the coins. This is nothing but theft, because there's actually no law that these people are breaking. They don't need a license to transmit money, because they are selling a commodity.

Klein faces as many as five years in prison and $250,000 in fines.
They don't care about prison, it's those 250k they're after.

$250,000 in fines for selling 98 bitcoins. That sounds way too steep for me.
What we need is some clarification from government agencies on what is acceptable and what is not in the Bitcoin world. That is not forthcoming.

[Arcteryx]

Just saw an article about someone in Arizona who was running scams on localbitcoins with getting caught on a drugs possesion call when they found out he was making millions from localbitcoin when the price was $1300 until he was caught.
All he was doing was selling at the upticked rate the sellers are all allowed to sell at.
So i dunno about that one except for the drug thing but money laundering?
I guess there is a fine line when it comes to bitcoin and the tax laws from each state and how they consider it to be a felony.
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/feds-raid-home-of-arizona-bitcoin-trader-morpheus-titania-make-arrest-for-bullets-9276771

[darkangel11]

Land of the free.

Laughable if it wasnt so sad.

All the 3 letter agencies have to finance their operations somehow, so they are going where the money are. Bitcoiners are supposed to be rich, so they're a perfect target.
Just pick one of the traders, charge them with something, like said money transmitting (which is a complete bullshit, since bitcoin is officially not a currency) and confiscate their computers to steal the coins. This is nothing but theft, because there's actually no law that these people are breaking. They don't need a license to transmit money, because they are selling a commodity.

Klein faces as many as five years in prison and $250,000 in fines.
They don't care about prison, it's those 250k they're after.

$250,000 in fines for selling 98 bitcoins. That sounds way too steep for me.
What we need is some clarification from government agencies on what is acceptable and what is not in the Bitcoin world. That is not forthcoming.

The problem is that this money transmitting thing is borderline or slightly on the side of not being against the law. If bitcoin was called a commodity by the US government and there's nothing in the law that says you are supposed to register when trading it. You would have to register if bitcoin was a currency, but it isn't. According to law it's like trading stocks, and you don't need to register to trade stocks, do you?
The fee is obviously not made to discourage the trader, it's the cost of the operation. He's being forced to pay their wages.

[kolloh]

Land of the free.

Laughable if it wasnt so sad.

All the 3 letter agencies have to finance their operations somehow, so they are going where the money are. Bitcoiners are supposed to be rich, so they're a perfect target.
Just pick one of the traders, charge them with something, like said money transmitting (which is a complete bullshit, since bitcoin is officially not a currency) and confiscate their computers to steal the coins. This is nothing but theft, because there's actually no law that these people are breaking. They don't need a license to transmit money, because they are selling a commodity.

Klein faces as many as five years in prison and $250,000 in fines.
They don't care about prison, it's those 250k they're after.

$250,000 in fines for selling 98 bitcoins. That sounds way too steep for me.
What we need is some clarification from government agencies on what is acceptable and what is not in the Bitcoin world. That is not forthcoming.

Wow that is indeed a huge fine and it is even more than the value of the 98 bitcoins. Pretty crazy they are starting to go after localbitcoin users now in stings like this.