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Author Topic: something we can all be happy about  (Read 2417 times)
Yatsan
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May 05, 2017, 06:34:09 AM
 #41

It's nice to see ETC getting some attention.  I suppose the Ethereum Foundation has stopped gradually dumping huge amounts of it on exchanges.

Just goes to show that cryptocurrencies don't all have to be in competition with Bitcoin.  Bitcoin's decreasing percentage of the total cryptocurrency market cap shows diversity, not opposition.


Yes, Etherum this year making a huge name by the incredibly pumping of it's price but as you can see many coin now are pumping means the cryptocurrency itself is making a name by the crowd by the massive pumping off almost all coin especially the top currency is the bitcoin.

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May 05, 2017, 06:48:08 AM
 #42


Wow this is the first time i see this kind of beautiful view from cryptocurrencies. Back in the day, altcoins are not like that. When bitcoin pumps, the altcoins dump so hard and it hits a very low level where their investors are backing out but now, altcoins and bitcoin is together and they are all pumping up. It seems that bitcoin is not the only good coin to invest for long term anymore Cool.

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May 05, 2017, 06:52:04 AM
 #43

Very rare and strange behavior of the market. Normally when bitcoin rose (and rose strong) almost all the other altcoins go in red. It is the first time that I see that the green of bitcoin is accompanied with the green of all the main altcoins at the market. Who is able to explain this?
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May 05, 2017, 07:19:11 AM
 #44

i see this argument many time lately, but it's not right to think that all the money that are in the altcoin, are there just because they want more bitcoin, they are there because they think that bitcoin might collapse one day and they like to diversificate

I think there are several aspects that can play a role, but their validity depends upon the view one has on the fundamentals. If crypto were essentially a currency, that is, stuff you use to buy goods and services, then I think that there would be a strong convergence to one single asset, because a currency gets more utility, the larger its user network is.  This is what has been pretended about bitcoin since a long time.  There would be a virtuous cycle, that makes that the bigger a currency user network is, the larger the chances are that you can use that currency for something you want to buy.  As such, a newcomer would like to jump into the biggest network currency ; lesser networks would simply fade away.  Also, as a merchant, you're most probably want to deal with the network that has most potential customers.

This argument is valid if the asset is essentially a currency, and if its market is essentially driven by people wanting to spend it as a currency.  In fact, if this were true, there wouldn't ever be a serious alt coin, because it cannot compete with the first mover that has the largest network.  This is what bitcoin fans consider as the ultimate proof that the only "true" crypto currency is bitcoin.

The problem with that argument is of course that bitcoin didn't turn out to be a currency, and this is entirely due to its monetary policy, which is designed for a huge deflationary spiral.  A deflationary spiral makes that the value of the monetary unit rises so fast, that people want to hoard it, instead of spend it, and are going to use something else as a currency.  In other words, a deflationary spiral turns a potential currency into a speculative asset.  With bitcoin, and many other crypto, the design of the monetary policy, inspired by the sound money doctrine, is totally axed on being deflationary, with the obvious consequence of it not having a currency-driven market, but a speculation-driven market.

And once we consider crypto not as a currency (mainly), but as a speculative asset, the market dynamics turns around.  There's simply no way in which you can have an obvious, clearly defined market leader in essentially *equivalent* speculative tokens ; in fact, you are most likely to make huge speculative benefits if you invest mainly in the SMALLER tokens, because they can rise more.  The bigger the network, this time, the smaller the possibility of steady big rise.  A coin with a market cap can, as history has shown, easily rise from $100 million to a billion.  If you catch it at $100 million, you have a 10-fold gain.  It is harder for a 10 billion coin to rise to 100 billion.

In fact, you better speculate comparable amounts spread out over many coins.  If you have $1000,- to play with, and you put $50 in the first 20 coins, chances are much bigger that you make a lot of money than if you put all of them on one horse.

But if all speculators do that, all these coins will rise to similar market caps.  So once these market caps will be relatively high, they don't promise much gain any more.  So your next $1000,-, you better spread them over the 40 biggest coins.  If some of them fail, that will made up by those few that "rocket".

Etc.... and in the end, we will have many, many coins rise to a similar market cap order of magnitude.

So in as much as a currency usage would design one clear sole monopolistic market leader, a speculative token market will become more and more uniform.
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May 05, 2017, 07:33:24 AM
 #45



Hahahaha yeah, I'm really happy about that.

I'm not that much of a fan of altcoin so I'm going to focus of bitcoin... Bitcoin went up like 6% again today which is amazing because that's the sort of returns that you get on your bank deposit every year, and that's in a country where inflation is a real problem. In the US or other countries that have a low interest rate, you'd be lucky to get a 2-3% interest rate, if not even less.

Hopefully this price level is going to hold up, and not become another bubble Smiley

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May 05, 2017, 07:46:55 AM
 #46



Lol, I hope that could be what happens every single day.

Makes me happy when I look at coinmarketcap.com when I wake up and I see a sea of green, because I basically have some stake in every single cryptocurrency in the #10 list except for litecoin right now.

However what usually happens after a day of great success for crypto is that the next day or some day in the next week there will be a sea of reds coming in... And then everyone will go depression mode and FUD is everywhere on this forum.

Don't get too caught up in the hype...


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May 05, 2017, 07:48:15 AM
 #47

It's nice to see ETC getting some attention.  I suppose the Ethereum Foundation has stopped gradually dumping huge amounts of it on exchanges.

Just goes to show that cryptocurrencies don't all have to be in competition with Bitcoin.  Bitcoin's decreasing percentage of the total cryptocurrency market cap shows diversity, not opposition.


Yes, Etherum this year making a huge name by the incredibly pumping of it's price but as you can see many coin now are pumping means the cryptocurrency itself is making a name by the crowd by the massive pumping off almost all coin especially the top currency is the bitcoin.

Bitcoin currency now is increasing rapidly ,same with ETH that is also used now in more ICO's like Encryptotel ,ETH now earned trust since their showing improvement than before

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May 05, 2017, 08:33:31 AM
 #48

Well, this is actually sad, because it means I can't pick up coins at a cheap price...
I just noticed those top 10 listed in the coinmarketcap.com are also increasing their price value, like what happen to bitcoin is more getting higher the value price because the demand is getting increase too, which is a great news to all bitcoin enthusiast.


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May 05, 2017, 08:49:00 AM
 #49

What retailers actually accept zcash or augur or golem for example?
Retailers don't accept Litecoin or Ether either, and very few accept Bitcoin.  No cryptocurrency will have its price based on its utility, ever.  Their price is only based on the money that people hold in them, and utility is part of the reason why people hold money in it but they don't just put it in, spend it and be done with it.  People also don't only hold money in PayPal that they're spending that second.

And yes, it's daily price changes.


They are base on the demand. Golem is a supercomputer project which I believe they are to manufacture these computers. Basically these tokens are like stocks, holders are like part owner of the company that tokenized themselves for public to which they held IPO. Maybe someday there will be merchants accepting these tokens.

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May 05, 2017, 08:51:50 AM
 #50

I see the same rise for almost every (I want to say every) alt I see used on sites other than exchanges. I think the happiest of all are shops who accept DOGE and DOGE merchants who must have been waiting for so long to see some movement.

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May 05, 2017, 09:16:33 AM
 #51

As history taught those who studied economics... all booms will end up in tears.

Expect a price correction then panic will set in.

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May 06, 2017, 06:34:18 AM
 #52

No cryptocurrency will have its price based on its utility, ever.  Their price is only based on the money that people hold in them, and utility is part of the reason why people hold money in it but they don't just put it in, spend it and be done with it.  People also don't only hold money in PayPal that they're spending that second.

I think you contradict yourself: "No cryptocurrency will have its price based on its utility, ever" > "Their price is based on the money that people hold in them" > "and utility is part of the reason why people hold money in it"....so yeah, a coin's utility, a currency's utility DOES have a direct impact on its value.
The amount of Bitcoin that's actually spent is very, very small compared to the amount of money people hold in it.  Many cryptocurrencies in their current state (Litecoin, for example) are better for everyday transactions than Bitcoin, but you know why not everyone has thrown their money that way?  Because no one cares.
To think that majority of people owning a cryptocurrency do so to hope the price goes up is very dangerous, because there's no need for so many versions of cryptocurrency that provide the same utility. It's a set up for a huge bust in the value of the cryptocurrencies that don't have a utility that compares to bitcoin or ether.
Do you think that the majority of people holding Ether care about its wider blockchain applications?  If so, you're pretty naive.

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May 06, 2017, 07:08:25 AM
 #53

What retailers actually accept zcash or augur or golem for example?
Retailers don't accept Litecoin or Ether either, and very few accept Bitcoin.  No cryptocurrency will have its price based on its utility, ever.  Their price is only based on the money that people hold in them, and utility is part of the reason why people hold money in it but they don't just put it in, spend it and be done with it.  People also don't only hold money in PayPal that they're spending that second.

And yes, it's daily price changes.




And this is why BTC will remain number 1 as long as we don't see real use cases to pay with crypto for stuff you can already pay with fiat.

Sure, to make transnational payments to a relative or a friend, crypto shines, but how often do you need to do that? not very often. So most people treat BTC as gold. The rest of cryptos, just to speculate to make and hold more gold (BTC).

Once physical cash is removed, we may see a higher demand of BTC to use it in exchange of daily services. Until then, BTC is king as a gold alternative and will keep going up.

And some alts will make people very rich in a quick way, with the higher risk of getting involved in alts.
Yeah that's right! and bitcoin will always be on top because many of the merchants online accepting it as mode of payment, aside that it can be use also to pay with fiat, and the bitcoin demand nowadays can't be stop because its unstoppable.

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michkima
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May 06, 2017, 07:34:40 AM
 #54

It's good to see that everything is going up, this is good since the trend was that whenever bitcoins go up all altcoins go down and vice versa. People move out of bitcoins when they see that bitcoins are going up and they leave when it is going down. If everything goes up then everything will have new price points.

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dinofelis
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May 06, 2017, 12:01:33 PM
 #55

No cryptocurrency will have its price based on its utility, ever.  Their price is only based on the money that people hold in them, and utility is part of the reason why people hold money in it but they don't just put it in, spend it and be done with it.  People also don't only hold money in PayPal that they're spending that second.

I think you contradict yourself: "No cryptocurrency will have its price based on its utility, ever" > "Their price is based on the money that people hold in them" > "and utility is part of the reason why people hold money in it"....so yeah, a coin's utility, a currency's utility DOES have a direct impact on its value.
The amount of Bitcoin that's actually spent is very, very small compared to the amount of money people hold in it.  Many cryptocurrencies in their current state (Litecoin, for example) are better for everyday transactions than Bitcoin, but you know why not everyone has thrown their money that way?  Because no one cares.
To think that majority of people owning a cryptocurrency do so to hope the price goes up is very dangerous, because there's no need for so many versions of cryptocurrency that provide the same utility. It's a set up for a huge bust in the value of the cryptocurrencies that don't have a utility that compares to bitcoin or ether.
Do you think that the majority of people holding Ether care about its wider blockchain applications?  If so, you're pretty naive.

I fully agree with you.  Even though there are some minor applications of crypto, where I would think that its principal application is "movement of value where the fiat system cannot go" (think dark markets for instance) and even though that is the true economic value of crypto  90% or even 99% of all this is pure speculation.  I'm now pretty convinced that the main application of crypto is a kind of modern version of the "complex derivatives market", where nobody cares (or is capable of) fathoming what the derivative is actually worth, but they are tokens that are put on a market and where speculators speculate (that is, buy and sell, with the hope of getting money out of their peers, and be at the same time money for their peers, and may the smartest/luckiest win).

I'm also convinced now that this is entirely due to the extremely ill-conceived emission curves of these things, bitcoin as first, which are made such that they automatically fall in a severe deflationary spiral (call it the "beany baby effect" of rarity together with growing awareness ; the same happens with works of art and other stuff that becomes rare when it becomes well known by the public, and allows for huge gains in the pockets of early adopters/gamblers).  I say "ill conceived", with reference to being a "currency".  It is absolutely not ill conceived when thought of being a very highly speculative token that needs to make very rich its early adopters.

There are tokens that have even added extra deflationary amplifiers, such as DASH with its masternode scheme.  DASH is very clearly a system that has been conceived to make early adopters extremely rich.

In all these cases, nobody really gives a shit about the announced application (even though, to get the crowds to the greater fool game, some delusional story is needed, like "replacing all fiat in the world").  The only thing that must hold water is the guarantee that the system will not lose your coins, and will not start printing a lot of them suddenly.  For this, no huge transaction volumes are necessary (but nevertheless, there should be enough capacity to get your holdings fast enough onto and from an exchange, this is where bitcoin starts to become problematic).

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May 06, 2017, 12:07:02 PM
 #56

what happen to the ETC? why it's fall today? Is it follow the ETH?
and some strange is that calculate force of ETC should keep an radio with the ETH,so I think the etc would rise but it's falled

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May 06, 2017, 01:22:31 PM
 #57

What you have there, no matter how bright the chart is and blooming, everybody cannot be happy. Its really good at this time that we are all rejoicing but let's also not be unmindful of the difficult days so we don't come around complaining. Let's enjoy while it last.



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beerlover
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May 06, 2017, 01:49:45 PM
 #58


I feel the same way and its really sad we cant purchase them already on a lower price.I did engage most of them but sell off on a cheaper price but still okay after all as long I do have the profits.

there will be many who regret not hodling. 
It's more likely that there will be many who regret not selling.  Altcoins often have sections of going up and down, it's just that this one is more dramatic than before.  Some of the altcoins like ETH and Monero will stick around, but plenty of those altcoins are going right back down again.
Indeed, as exciting as it may have seemed at a moment for the altcoin market and promising, but it always has a huge problem of instability and people who are thinking about investing in it can only take advantage of it only for a while so there is no long-term investment, they don’t have the same price curve as bitcoin, they are all copycats except for a couple who are trying to bring new things to the table.

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May 06, 2017, 04:28:05 PM
 #59



Where did you get these charts? I would like to look up some other cryptocurrencies and track these as well.
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May 09, 2017, 08:05:40 AM
 #60

It sounds funny, but it still scrapes at least a couple
 Cool

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