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Author Topic: A serious obstacle for bitcoin's popularity  (Read 1587 times)
kryptqnick
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May 11, 2017, 04:36:09 PM
 #1

Yesterday morning I wanted to sell some btc and get my local currency. The suggested transaction fee was something like 0.0005 which is (was) less than dollar. Anyway, I agreed and was waiting for the transaction to proceed. Mostly I get lucky and my transactions are confirmed in a few minutes. This one is still pending after more than 24 hours (it's been 30 hours already). I believe if nothing can be done with this, bitcoin will inevitably stop at some point and won't be able to become more popular. Waiting for money for dozens of hours is just too wrong.

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May 11, 2017, 04:44:19 PM
 #2

I concur, 100%.  That's one reason why BTC hasn't taken off as a currency.   But it's still good as something to speculate on,  and as a (very volatile) store of value.   When sig campaign payouts don't confirm,  it's frustrating...but when you get a 120% raise in 3 months it's very cool!



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May 11, 2017, 04:51:45 PM
 #3

I concur, 100%.  That's one reason why BTC hasn't taken off as a currency.   But it's still good as something to speculate on,  and as a (very volatile) store of value.   When sig campaign payouts don't confirm,  it's frustrating...but when you get a 120% raise in 3 months it's very cool!
The architecture seemed to have reach a 'deadlock'.For the satisfactory conditions maintained between between the miners and the nodes,core developers should work solution out.They may already have the solution,who knows.At this point,the insane peek in bitcoin prices only makes me insecure about the rising transaction fees.If you read the bitcoin's whitepaper,it does say the system is suppose to implement fast transactions.Well,comes with an extra service fees now.

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davidmccoy
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May 11, 2017, 06:12:56 PM
 #4

As the prices are going up, the systems are getting busier and transactions are not getting confirmed. This is a serious problem as the ratio of pending transactions is getting higher and higher.

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May 11, 2017, 06:26:49 PM
 #5

No one has said that Bitcoin is perfect and transactions fees and speed are among the obstacles, I agree. At the moment seems that miners are making some kind of pressure by imposing rather high fees. But I think these are the problems that could be solved, if there is a will and still there are more advantages than disadvantages.

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May 11, 2017, 06:57:34 PM
 #6

I concur, 100%.  That's one reason why BTC hasn't taken off as a currency.   But it's still good as something to speculate on,  and as a (very volatile) store of value.   When sig campaign payouts don't confirm,  it's frustrating...but when you get a 120% raise in 3 months it's very cool!

And the size of transaction fees is a good reason too. 0.0005 BTC for 0.01 transaction is a 5% fee, which you almost never see in any other currencies. With smaller transaction the percentage of fee is even higher. Together with other factors it makes BTC a really bad currency for small transactions, but for bigger transactions, like getting your salary, it's one of the best options, because it's global and fees are static.

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May 11, 2017, 07:07:52 PM
 #7

I concur, 100%.  That's one reason why BTC hasn't taken off as a currency.   But it's still good as something to speculate on,  and as a (very volatile) store of value.   When sig campaign payouts don't confirm,  it's frustrating...but when you get a 120% raise in 3 months it's very cool!

Why would it be any different than tulip bulbs as a store of value if you can't use it for payments?

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May 11, 2017, 07:23:22 PM
 #8

I concur, 100%.  That's one reason why BTC hasn't taken off as a currency.   But it's still good as something to speculate on,  and as a (very volatile) store of value.   When sig campaign payouts don't confirm,  it's frustrating...but when you get a 120% raise in 3 months it's very cool!

Why would it be any different than tulip bulbs as a store of value if you can't use it for payments?
Because it can be transferred from one person to another and to/from other cryptocurrencies, in a similar way to precious metals, as well as having a fixed and scarce supply.  A store of value is only worth as much as people continue to hold in it - gold would still be worth the same if people didn't buy jewelry made of it.

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May 11, 2017, 07:24:44 PM
 #9

Yes, i think this is the single biggest think which will hold bitcoin back.
Everyone expects their transactions to be processed in a reasonable timeframe.
Sadly for those micropayments which have a very very low fee attached they get
pushed to the back of the queue so to speak.

this was touched on over on the 'halving' thread where miners rewards are going to be halved in
Close to 3 years, which in turn will put pressure on the mining business, which will amplify the
Current problem i think.

Could we see tdansactions being held to ransom by a small group of mining pools who may very well
Control the whole business
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May 11, 2017, 07:28:26 PM
 #10

We know that. The miners know that. The developers know that. Bitcoin is a cash system, therefore it needs lower fees and faster transactions.
So maybe miners should reach a consensus sooner about scaling. But that's not gonna happen.

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May 11, 2017, 07:44:33 PM
 #11

of course bitcoin has many advantages and disadvantages but we are here too only discuss about the confirmation time. developers are working hard enough to find a way out of this mess. or else you can simple trade altcoins instead of bitcoins. I just bought near about 10000 of a alt at just 0.01btc and when I transferred that to a friends wallet I payed only 0.01of that alt.  and the transaction was confirmed within 5minutes. so alts can be the best alternative right now


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May 11, 2017, 07:46:24 PM
 #12

I concur, 100%.  That's one reason why BTC hasn't taken off as a currency.   But it's still good as something to speculate on,  and as a (very volatile) store of value.   When sig campaign payouts don't confirm,  it's frustrating...but when you get a 120% raise in 3 months it's very cool!

Why would it be any different than tulip bulbs as a store of value if you can't use it for payments?

Right now the blocks issue is just a "bug on the windshield" but its going to escalate once the media starts harping on it again. And personally i think thats wht the ETF's are not getting approved. SEC is waiting to see the outcome of this problem
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May 11, 2017, 07:50:41 PM
 #13

The fee changes dynamically that's the problem. If you send your transaction with moderate fee, which normally would get it to confirm after an hour and within that hour 10000 people decide to pay more, because they want it to confirm in 30 min and be above the average, you transaction will fall from the expected hour to 2 or more, up to infinity.

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May 11, 2017, 08:06:50 PM
 #14

I concur, 100%.  That's one reason why BTC hasn't taken off as a currency.   But it's still good as something to speculate on,  and as a (very volatile) store of value.   When sig campaign payouts don't confirm,  it's frustrating...but when you get a 120% raise in 3 months it's very cool!

Why would it be any different than tulip bulbs as a store of value if you can't use it for payments?

Right now the blocks issue is just a "bug on the windshield" but its going to escalate once the media starts harping on it again. And personally i think thats wht the ETF's are not getting approved. SEC is waiting to see the outcome of this problem

I really hope you are right -- but please think about what the user experience will be for someone trying bitcoin for the first time.  Imagine someone is trying it out -- they have to pay $1.50 or whatever, and their transaction is stuck for 24 hours... That is VERY different from when I got into bitcoin and I paid exactly $0 , and it was confirmed in 10 minutes. 

I am just afraid new people will be turned off.

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May 12, 2017, 08:03:56 AM
 #15

As the prices are going up, the systems are getting busier and transactions are not getting confirmed. This is a serious problem as the ratio of pending transactions is getting higher and higher.
Yes. And it's getting crazy! My transaction is STILL PENDING! It has been 47 hours now. I have never even heard about it taking so long. Did anybody have transaction pending for almost two days?
And the size of transaction fees is a good reason too. 0.0005 BTC for 0.01 transaction is a 5% fee, which you almost never see in any other currencies. With smaller transaction the percentage of fee is even higher. Together with other factors it makes BTC a really bad currency for small transactions, but for bigger transactions, like getting your salary, it's one of the best options, because it's global and fees are static.
I was sending 0.03btc with the fee around 0.0005, so it's less than 2% fee. However, my friend was recently sending some btc and payed around 1% fee. The transaction was confirmed in a couple of hours.

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May 12, 2017, 08:32:06 AM
 #16

As the prices are going up, the systems are getting busier and transactions are not getting confirmed. This is a serious problem as the ratio of pending transactions is getting higher and higher.
Yes. And it's getting crazy! My transaction is STILL PENDING! It has been 47 hours now. I have never even heard about it taking so long. Did anybody have transaction pending for almost two days?
And the size of transaction fees is a good reason too. 0.0005 BTC for 0.01 transaction is a 5% fee, which you almost never see in any other currencies. With smaller transaction the percentage of fee is even higher. Together with other factors it makes BTC a really bad currency for small transactions, but for bigger transactions, like getting your salary, it's one of the best options, because it's global and fees are static.
I was sending 0.03btc with the fee around 0.0005, so it's less than 2% fee. However, my friend was recently sending some btc and payed around 1% fee. The transaction was confirmed in a couple of hours.

I agree with you on this OP, if these high fees and delayed confirmation times are not addressed Bitcoin risk being gradually unpopular. The beneficiaries will of course keep mute and watch their earnings grow but we all stand to loose as a community if Bitcoin dies.



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May 12, 2017, 08:33:22 AM
 #17

The fee changes dynamically that's the problem. If you send your transaction with moderate fee, which normally would get it to confirm after an hour and within that hour 10000 people decide to pay more, because they want it to confirm in 30 min and be above the average, you transaction will fall from the expected hour to 2 or more, up to infinity.
Do not use a moderate fee at times of high congestion.

Yes. And it's getting crazy! My transaction is STILL PENDING! It has been 47 hours now. I have never even heard about it taking so long. Did anybody have transaction pending for almost two days?
No, it is not crazy. You included an inadequate fee at a time of fair congestion and therefore your TX is taking unusually long. It is possible to create a transaction that should never confirm.

I was sending 0.03btc with the fee around 0.0005, so it's less than 2% fee. However, my friend was recently sending some btc and payed around 1% fee. The transaction was confirmed in a couple of hours.
The fee has nothing to do with the amount that you're sending. It's primarily related to the current recommended fee-rate in satoshi/byte and the size of your transaction.

I agree with you on this OP, if these high fees and delayed confirmation times are not addressed Bitcoin risk being gradually unpopular. The beneficiaries will of course keep mute and watch their earnings grow but we all stand to loose as a community if Bitcoin dies.
Untrue. This will happen in any altcoins as well, and you'd end up running in circles thinking that you could find scalability elsewhere.

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May 12, 2017, 08:54:58 AM
 #18

Yesterday morning I wanted to sell some btc and get my local currency. The suggested transaction fee was something like 0.0005 which is (was) less than dollar. Anyway, I agreed and was waiting for the transaction to proceed. Mostly I get lucky and my transactions are confirmed in a few minutes. This one is still pending after more than 24 hours (it's been 30 hours already). I believe if nothing can be done with this, bitcoin will inevitably stop at some point and won't be able to become more popular. Waiting for money for dozens of hours is just too wrong.

Your fear is same thing as people who have commented including myself because this issue if it continues without any solution in sight, then it might mean a serious calamity for bitcoin. Yours is still fair compared to people who pay high transaction fees and still have to wait several hours for it to confirm this is just my own case. I dont know what will happen if government now start adopting bitcoin and the population multiplied in multiple folds then we need to start waiting for weeks for transaction to get confirmed or even pay transaction fees that is higher than the amount itself.

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May 12, 2017, 09:04:21 AM
 #19

Yesterday morning I wanted to sell some btc and get my local currency. The suggested transaction fee was something like 0.0005 which is (was) less than dollar. Anyway, I agreed and was waiting for the transaction to proceed. Mostly I get lucky and my transactions are confirmed in a few minutes. This one is still pending after more than 24 hours (it's been 30 hours already). I believe if nothing can be done with this, bitcoin will inevitably stop at some point and won't be able to become more popular. Waiting for money for dozens of hours is just too wrong.

Your fear is same thing as people who have commented including myself because this issue if it continues without any solution in sight, then it might mean a serious calamity for bitcoin. Yours is still fair compared to people who pay high transaction fees and still have to wait several hours for it to confirm this is just my own case. I don't know what will happen if government now start adopting bitcoin and the population multiplied in multiple folds then we need to start waiting for weeks for transaction to get confirmed or even pay transaction fees that is higher than the amount itself.

The problem of confirmation delay is now haunting Bitcoin and is the focus of so many discussions on how to address this problem. Bitcoin is supposed to be smart and quick...and since what is happening is the opposite this can hinder the full growth potential of Bitcoin.

Can you just imagine if this is not a big problem and you have countries like Japan and Australia already recognizing Bitcoin? Bitcoin could have grown twice as it is now.

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May 12, 2017, 11:04:52 AM
 #20

well there are a couple of things that i agree.
fees have gone up a lot, and with price rising the value of the fees we are paying in USD is a lot. there are a lot more transactions that there used to be and that makes the network "crowded" and block size issue is still there!

but you need to also know some stuff too.
amount of fee you keep repeating is meaningless without telling us how big (in bytes) your transaction is. or tell us the fee per byte. 0.0005 can be big or tiny considering the size.
also there is a possibility that your fee is high enough but your transaction was spending an unconfirmed transaction output. and this has been happening all week. people only look at the "big fee" and think it should confirm but their transaction is spending another transaction that has practically no fee and will never confirm.














 

 

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