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Author Topic: Lauda has Broken the GuideLine of the Trust System by theymos own words, ban her  (Read 3337 times)
minifrij
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May 14, 2017, 01:26:59 AM
 #21

It is interesting that with a admitted flawed trust system, and an over aggressive ex staff member,
that all of you want to blame the one pointing out the flaws and instead of agreeing something needs to be done to fix the system
Please, enlighten us on how we can fix the system.
It's extremely easy to say that a system is broken. Providing a fix that makes sense and doesn't just move the issues somewhere else is significantly harder.

you all just want @kiklo to shut up and be quiet.
Which he refused to do (many older people stand their ground) and was banned for it (which is further punishment for what many people see as @Lauda's overly aggressive nature.)
I couldn't care about what kiklo does providing he does it in a decent manner. However, he isn't.

When you call @kiklo a hypocrite for hitting everyone associated with @Lauda with negative trust,
I went to look at his account and see for myself: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=357609
their are no other negative feedbacks save the one against @Lauda.
kiklo's other negative feedbacks were removed. You would have to ask an admin why.
Previous to this, kiklo left negative feedback to Mitchell, phantastisch, qwk, Zepher, Lutpin, monbux and many others simply because they had relations to Lauda in some way. This isn't a fair way to go about doing things, and is extremely hypocritical when you're complaining about negative feedback being given for little to no reason.

Yet to the casual looker @Lauda is completely trustworthy while @kiklo is covered in red / untrustworthy, when numerically he has less complaints.
Who would have thought, little interaction with the trust system = very few trust scores. Truly groundbreaking analysis.

It would be interesting to see how many of you , have the will to do the same when you believe you have been wronged.
I was given a negative trust when I first started using this forum. You want to know what I did about it? I had a sensible, private discussion with the user that gave me it and we worked out terms on what I had to do to have it removed. What a crazy idea, right?

@The End is Near, has been the only other one with a will strong enough to argue with the peer pressure exerted against @kiko because of a defective trust system
You're a fool if you think that kiklo handled this in a good acceptable way. He may have gotten more people on his side if he acted like an adult.

Normally , I don't have much to say, but seeing a group of elitist attack an 84 year man , that refused to buckle was more that I can in good conscience tolerate.
I truly can't understand why people are constantly bringing up kilko's apparent age as an argument. If anything, I think that it's rather demeaning that the only reason that you are sticking up for him is because he is seen as some frail old man that is incapable of fighting his own battles.
If you're someone that can't handle some punk saying something bad about you online then turn off the computer. Otherwise, age (along with wealth, social status, gender etc) is irrelevant here.

Does @Lauda continue his/her negative rating rampage and the rest continue to assault a man that was banned for life.
I shouldn't think he would be banned for life unless he broke a different rule. I expect him to be back eventually.



Because if it is not , don't expect him to be the last peasant that gets pissed off over a broken trust system.
Once again, please give us this magical fix that will make the trust system great for everyone involved.

Because if it is not , don't expect him to be the last peasant that gets pissed off over a broken trust system.
These people come and go every so often, it happens.

Because he made have been the 1st to go off this loudly, but a broken trust system will guarantee their will be more.
kiklo isn't the first big 'revolt' over the trust system and absolutely won't be the last. All that kiklo has accomplished is making a complete and utter fool of himself over some red text.



I don't view it as anything even close to a crisis, and it doesn't keep me awake at night.
You're telling me that some meaningless red text on an internet forum about magical money isn't you're number 1 priority right now? How insane.

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AztekPhoenix
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May 14, 2017, 02:03:33 AM
 #22

It is interesting that with a admitted flawed trust system, and an over aggressive ex staff member,
that all of you want to blame the one pointing out the flaws and instead of agreeing something needs to be done to fix the system
Please, enlighten us on how we can fix the system.
It's extremely easy to say that a system is broken. Providing a fix that makes sense and doesn't just move the issues somewhere else is significantly harder.

Not difficult at all , modify the system so you can PM a Trust group request to another member for say 7 or 14 or 30 days or whatever time is needed,
if that member accepts the trust group request, their names are entered into a database, so that they can then rate any person in their group for up to that time period, once the time period expires, no further ratings are possible unless a new trust group PM is sent out and accepted.
All ratings from a Trust Group have equal weight, nothing is untrusted as both parties agreed to it ahead of time.  
So no trust monarchy and no bad ratings from people just because they don't like what the other says.

Yet to the casual looker @Lauda is completely trustworthy while @kiklo is covered in red / untrustworthy, when numerically he has less complaints.
Who would have thought, little interaction with the trust system = very few trust scores. Truly groundbreaking analysis.

The groundbreaking analysis is from @Lauda untrusted ratings of which they are many.
If @Lauda is your friend and being objective is impossible for you , whatever that is your issue, and none of my concern.

It would be interesting to see how many of you , have the will to do the same when you believe you have been wronged.
I was given a negative trust when I first started using this forum. You want to know what I did about it? I had a sensible, private discussion with the user that gave me it and we worked out terms on what I had to do to have it removed. What a crazy idea, right?

Not everyone is going to beg, if begging works for you good for you.
Older people have more pride.

@The End is Near, has been the only other one with a will strong enough to argue with the peer pressure exerted against @kiko because of a defective trust system
You're a fool if you think that kiklo handled this in a good acceptable way. He may have gotten more people on his side if he acted like an adult.

Actually , no one would have mention it , if he had said nothing.
Like no one has barely mentioned the others, that @Lauda negative rated, it was more than @kiklo , I suggest your read @Lauda prior posts, if you doubt my words.
There were others that begged her and she declined.

Again @kiklo is banned , permanently as far as I know, so your continued insults at the man say more about you than him.

Once again, please give us this magical fix that will make the trust system great for everyone involved.

Once again read what I wrote in the 1st post , it is fair and it will work if the people running this system want to be have fair and honest trust system.
If they don't then that says much about them also.

If you looking for someone to argue all night with , I am not your guy.  
Solution is up to the Developers to implement , I told you how it could be done, only thing left is for them to set it up or ignore it and the final decision is made.

╥AztekPhoenix

Want Proof Lauda is a Pathetic fool , observe how she gives fake negative trust when she can't win a debate.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=841833
Lauda is also an extortionist: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1764757.msg17624090#msg17624090
criptix
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May 14, 2017, 03:13:56 AM
 #23

You dont need to use the default trust.
You can make your own trust list.
Majority of people here are just to lazy to do it.

Somehow i dont see much difference or any advantage of your proposal over the private trust list.

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The Pharmacist
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May 14, 2017, 03:18:29 AM
 #24

You dont need to use the default trust.
You can make your own trust list.
Majority of people here are just to lazy to do it.

Somehow i dont see much difference or any advantage over your own private trust list?
I do this myself, great idea to do so.

Now I have to say, even though I don't have negative trust from a DT member, I just had my trust score thrown in my fucking face a few hours ago while trying to sell some bitcoin.  I refused to send the bitcoin first, and the dude says he's got better trust than me and blah blah blah.  So having a lot of untrusted negatives does have an effect if you're trying to do deals.  Other than that, this is just a chat forum with a feedback system that allows anyone to neg anyone else, and overall it should be a very small part of anyone's life and shouldn't be a cause for ear-smoking.  Kiklo went off the deep end, just like mixan did.  I'm not surprised he got banned.



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the_end_is_near
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May 14, 2017, 04:52:14 AM
 #25

I think that a guideline is not a rule, so banning someone for not following guidelines is a bit too much.

In my other posts (just click my profile as I do not have so many posts), I have explained some details about why banning anyone is entirely unnecessary with a sufficiently designed decentralized system with decentralized moderation.

Of course the trust system is being spammed and abused, and I don't agree with people giving negative trust to people they don't like or consider spammers. Spamming is bannable, so these people should be reported and it's up to a mod to decide their fate.

Banning spamming is analogous to banning any activity that is economic yet some people find offensive (a subjective matter thus can only be properly handled with decentralized moderation and economics, not dictatorial, totalitarianism). Collectivists always think they can ban economic activity and then wonder why it never works, because they flunked Economics 101. Global banning (as opposed to decentralized moderation) is Sisyphean, worse-than-useless (i.e. iatrogenic) busywork for twits who like to be in positions of corrupt, privileged power and authority.

Note I wrote a post and the mods deleted it and didn't even send it to my PM folder (Edit: note it later appeared in), so more of same totalitarian shit ongoing. This time I will archive this thread so I have  record of all their worse-than-useless corruption. I find it hilarious to see these useless mods doing activity which is analogous to the slaves digging the labyrinths of the pyramids with spoons.

Quote from: post deleted by the mods didn't even appear in my PM inbox but they forgot to clear out the Drafts lol
Have all of these been permanently banned? Just the thought of that.. is so pleasing.

Hilarious to see these self-important, dictatorial mods doing needless busywork and feeling proud of it, sort of analogous to slaves being proud of digging the labyrinths for pyramids with spoons.

There are simple decentralized solutions to the relativistic interpretation of spam content, so that no one is ever perma-banned and centralized authoritarian mods are not needed nor desirable.

What will you Sisyphean twits do to feel important in the new paradigm? Maybe you'll actually have to learn to do some real productive work. Shudder.

With decentralized moderation, then the group leaders will delete the spam from their threads and even set spammers on Ignore so that they do not have to repeat the effort. No need for perma-banning globally.

You might argue this is a duplication of effort, but there is a great cost to totalitarianism. Collectivism/groupthink fails catastrophically in clusterfucks.

And when every post has to attach a small micropayment then spammers have to do an economic activity. An economic activity is not spam, regardless if some people are offended by the activity. Decentralized moderation anneals to the fitness of the diversity of subjectivity.

Why would people pay to post? Because they will earn more from posting than they do from not posting. And because the payment is so miniscule compared to the benefits attained. Why would they not then prefer a free option? Because the free option will be laden with totalitarianism, circle-jerking echo chambers, and/or uneconomic spam (e.g. the negative value of Facebook Likes). Note the onboarding paradigm will provide a means for those without money to earn their way into the system in way that is not a road block or discouraging (and is actually encouraging).

Tada! It’s magic.

More magic coming to blow your fucking minds. And to value twits at their actual negative economic value and not the one of delusions of self-importance. An no, I do not respect those who destroy value. Why should I? They have not even exhibited any redeeming humane qualities. It’s always been their dictatorial (“for the lolz” power trip) way or the banned highway.
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May 14, 2017, 06:32:56 AM
 #26

Apparently most users are using the default trust list, because trust is not related to anything they would actively need to configure for their priority use cases.

This is a difficult case to solve. Older members complain that the Default Trust system is flawed (which it is to a degree), but if this trust system was removed then newer members would likely complain that there was nothing in place to stop them getting scammed. theymos did want to replace this system, however this replacement system had the downfall of requiring newbies to choose members that they have never interacted with to trust.

Thus as I said, a centralized GUI presentation of the trust as red text on @kiklo’s avatar on all his posts in the Altcoin Discussion retroactively into the past.

I can agree on this somewhat, however it's arguably useless to try and implement for the use that it would get.

There are some quick and easy solutions available.

1. This site is first and foremost a forum and not a site for doing trade deals between individuals (or at least many users join with that perspective). On localbitcoins, I see a trust rating by default, because trading is the primary function of that site and there is no forum. The most egregious flaw is the putting red text on the avatar of the forum identity (apparently only in some sub-forums such as Altcoin Discussion) accusing of being a scammer. This then affects all the forum activity (even retroactively to all historic posts!) which has nothing to do with trades. For example, myself and others have had their past accounts hacked (accounts where I had scrambled the password), then our archive of posts now has bullshit red text on them even though that has nothing do with the activity when I was posting using those account. One of my angel investors has red text all over his past posts because that account got hacked (he quit the forum since that because it is a clusterfuck of waste). It is the conflation of these two activities (forum posting and trading) which is such an egregious clusterfuck. Thus there is no reason to have that red text there. Anyone who does a trade without checking the Trust system for the user who they are trading with, thus has no awareness of the Trust system and thus thinks BCT is only a forum. The forum is not liable, because the Trust system is available and is documented. Remove that damn red text for those who are using the default trust list!

2. Show the trust list blatantly on the Trust page. The “Trust settings” link is not conspicuous enough and clicking it gives no clue what the “Default trust” is about or even how to use it.

Incorrect. Because afaik we start with a default list and have to proactively go edit out and nearly no one knows that.

The de facto trust list is centralized.

Admittedly it could be easier to find, but there is a fair amount of documentation available to anyone interested in the trust system outlining what it is and how it can be used. It's a problem with the users that they do not care to find or read it.

Never is the problem the fault of the users. Until you accept this reality, you will never be a world class software developer. Never blame the users. Those who are offended by my expertise … oh well …

Four wrongs do not make it right, rather it is a clusterfuck.

1. Centralized de facto trust list for most users.
2. @Lauda knows this thus can abuse @kiklo.
3. @kiklo is told to accept this abuse, so he lashes out.
4. You guys have the wrong of blaming the clusterfuck on @kiklo accusing him of being a hypocrite.

3. kiklo was told exactly how to go about trying to change the trust left by Lauda,

And I think he was 100% correct to not waste his time on a broken piece-of-shit design. Why should he beg to @Lauda? Lauda should never have this power to put red text all over his forum avatar.

It is not the fault of the system, nor the people of the forum that kiklo decided to disregard that advice and throw his toys out his cot.

It is the faulty design of the system. And @kiklo was pointing out to the other users how arbitrary the system is and how the fault can waste their time too. Because the nature of collectivized clusterfucks (i.e. tragedy-of-the-commons) is that no one cares until they are affected:

Quote
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.



4. Complaining that a user that you have never traded with has left you negative trust, then leaving negative trust to people you have never traded with makes you a hypocrite. Complaining about defamation of your character, then going to to defame the characters of people not involved makes you a hypocrite.

That is aliasing error akin to looking up at a stopped clock at 6am and 6pm and concluding the clock is functioning properly.

If you just looked at his action as a point sample then yes you could argue that, but taken holistically, then clearly @kiklo was trying to inform others how the system could harm them arbitrary.

Being part of the groupthink, you slander his motives while protecting your collectivist system. Rather than looking objectively at the problem holistically.

Cover your right eye with a patch and try to function (I was blinded in my right eye in 1999). Consume enough rat poison each day to not kill you but to be so sick that you can not think clearly, have a failing liver, have delirum, headaches and barely enough energy to get out of bed. Remove all your finances and all the people who could help you, so that you are forced to work in this condition. Welcome to my life the past years. Until you’ve actually experienced this, then you can not comprehend the reality of it. Even words do not describe what it feels like day after day after day for years, with no respite.

And the fact that you can come here and have a sensible conversation with me about these problems, even after all of the things that you have suffered through, gives kiklo no excuse to act like a child about it. Do you not agree?

I am coming cured from TB and so am having some lucid days (also still some bad days), so I have always tried to not let my illness impact my rationality and perspective, but the fact it that it did many times. And there was not a damn thing I could do about it, even though I tried everything I could to overcome (before I was diagnosed with TB so I did not know about any curative medicine for some years). Physical suffering is physical suffering and even the mind is impacted. You will never understand this until you are chronically ill with a condition that persistently painful or delirious. I was very strong before I got ill with TB, so I also was cavalier and incompassionate as you are (well maybe not totally but I did not have the understanding of chronic illness that I have now). So I do not entirely blame you. I had even asked my (now ex-) wife and others close to me to wear a patch on their eye for a day to know my new life after I was blinded. They all tried it for 15 seconds and refused to do it. Lack of compassion and selfishness is a human nature. Jesus spent his time among the afflicted and suffered immensely. It is something I also tried, but I admit it is horrible.

Eventually I will blog about perhaps we can leave this physical dimension and move onto the informational plane of existence. Yet I think we will also miss this physical existence?

In short, I do not blame you for your perspective. I am informing you about another perspective.

My generation X had to fight for everything (not spoiled, not sheltered)

And due to certain circumstances in my life, I do not believe that I fit either of those descriptions.

Okay I understand the world is diverse and we can not absolutely stereotype. And I will cheer any youth that I find to be interesting and valuable. Yet we perhaps draw some generalizing trends between generations, but of course I hope I can relate to all age groups, because diversity makes life interesting. I am skeptical (because I am so skeptical of anything the boomers and collectivism/socialism created, although I recognize every stage of human development is a prerequisite to the next one) but also I do have some friends in all age groups.

I give respect to people that give respect to others. kiklo has shown through is mass amount of threads, negative feedback spam and threats of legal action that he is incapable of giving respect to others. Therefore, I see no reason to give respect to him.

@kiklo and I also butted heads in forum discussion in the past. He is a feisty or obstinate one (and I am too but I do not put blue text in all my replies when I am agitated). I joked with @kiklo in a PM that I can only imagine what he was like as a teenager if he has this much fight in him at age 84, lol. But it is not my nor @Lauda’s value to decide for everyone else. We need a decentralized moderation system so that we have a more accurate appraisal of the value of the posting to a wide diversity of readers.

And so then if @kiklo finds he is Ignored every where, he will realize it is his fault and can not blame any centralized moderators. I am not assuming he would be. He has his style and he did point out some technical details sometimes. IMO, he was not a worthless poster.

@kiklo was angry because he is/was marketing his altcoin here and the red text on his avatar slandered all his Altcoin Discussion posts. I think this was justifiable and actually he could perhaps justify a lawsuit but these things are difficult to win especially he voluntarily participated in the system. Nevertheless, the system remains broken. Somebody even posted here in Meta, belittling his altcoin as if he is not justified to have that as an economic reason to be angry about the abuse.

I couldn't care about what kiklo does providing he does it in a decent manner. However, he isn't.

Political correctness is a trait that I vehemently hate.

I rather like diversity and indecent behavior when justifiable. Makes life more interesting.

"Give me liberty, or give me death!" — Patrick Henry

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure." — Thomas Jefferson
ImHash
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May 14, 2017, 06:54:54 AM
 #27

84 years old?
When I received a negative from Yahoo, I started to PM admins and DT members after 10 PMs to Yahoo first, but I never bothered theymos because he is the red line and should be for everyone, please don't involve him, if you have to deal with Lauda, he (theymos) has to deal with hundreds of thousands people.

84 years old?
My man you need to think about what's important in your life, have you prepared yourself for the day you want to meet your maker?
Why do you care how/what people think of/about you? only thing you should care is how God sees you.
You should know better; forgiveness is a virtue, if they wronged you then try to reply with goodness.

Btw before I go, US a powerful country claiming to be a democratic government Cheesy Cheesy
See how is that working for opposition, bitcoin is the king and you don't go curse and trash talk in his castle.

Note, the king means there is no democracy here, either work your ways around or try to not invoke the wrong people.

This is the story just like Ver and Gavin gang saying this forum is censoring but they went and made their own bitcoin version instead and trying to take over the throne all together, I'd suggest you to join them grandpa.

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May 14, 2017, 07:12:27 AM
 #28

@ImHash was on my ignore list when I was @iamnotback. And here is yet another justification for why he was on my ignore list.

84 years old?

When I received a negative from Yahoo, I started to PM admins and DT members after 10 PMs to Yahoo first, but I never bothered theymos because he is the red line and should be for everyone, please don't involve him, if you have to deal with Lauda, he (theymos) has to deal with hundreds of thousands people.

He involved @Theymos because the Trust system design is broken. If it were not broken, nobody would need to complain to Theymos about it.

Theymos is the one who took $50,000 in BTC donations (back when BTC was 1/50th of its current value, so really he took $2.5 million in donations) and promised to improve the forum but never did. I read on Coindesk that he had contracted (afair in 2016) some Blockstream engineers and was spending $50k per month. One can only speculate about the incompetence or corruption that might (or might not) be going on. What ever the case may be, the forum has never been improved.

84 years old?
My man you need to think about what's important in your life, have you prepared yourself for the day you want to meet your maker?

How do you know he has not done that? That is his personal life and he is not obligated to communicate his preparations publicly. It is an orthogonal issue that has no bearing whatsoever on the issue at hand. You’re constructing a strawman argument.

Ridiculing an 84 year elder is despicable.

Why do you care how/what people think of/about you? only thing you should care is how God sees you.

He is running an altcoin thus has a duty to care what people see as red text slandering his forum avatar.

How do you know he does not care about his spiritual situation.

You should know better; forgiveness is a virtue, if they wronged you then try to reply with goodness.

Bearing false witness is not a virtue. Even Jesus said he came bearing a sword against the corrupt, unrepentant ones. @Lauda is not repentant. I quoted him upthread saying he derives great pleasure from dictatorial actions.

I agree @kiklo did lash out and I did write that 4 wrongs do not make it right. But note my point about aliasing error.

See how is that working for opposition, bitcoin is the king and you don't go curse and trash talk in his castle.

Note, the king means there is no democracy here, either work your ways around or try to not invoke the wrong people.

Pride cometh before thy falleth.

Well some of us do not want be part of such a groupthink clusterfuck and we are busy working to form an escape before your clusterfuck collapses.

This is the story just like Ver and Gavin gang saying this forum is censoring but they went and made their own bitcoin version instead and trying to take over the throne all together, I'd suggest you to join them grandpa.

Well they tried to replace centralized idiocy with worse centralized idiocy.

But I am different breed.

For all you Bitcoin maximalists, note Bitcoin’s share of the total crypto marketcap has fallen to 54%. It is about time for you to wake up to reality.
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May 14, 2017, 07:36:18 AM
 #29

Four wrongs do not make it right, rather it is a clusterfuck.

1. Centralized de facto trust list for most users.
2. @Lauda knows this thus can abuse @kiklo.
3. @kiklo is told to accept this abuse, so he lashes out.
4. You guys have the wrong of blaming the clusterfuck on @kiklo accusing him of being a hypocrite.

Big mess all made by very poorly contemplated design of a forum system.

Humans are social animals, which means they are designed to abuse, or be abused, to dominate, or to be dominated, to rule, or be ruled.  The abused, dominated and ruled want others to be abused, dominated and ruled too, apart from their abusers, dominators, and rulers.  That's the essence of social behaviour: if you're beaten up, you want others to be beaten up too.

Social behaviour is perpetuated, because it is in the advantage of the deciders for it to be perpetuated (the progenitors, the rule makers, and the economically privileged), and they keep the speculative dream alive of the dominated, to be one day the dominant (which almost never happens, but it is the belief that counts).  As such, the dominated, too, want this to be perpetuated, waiting for the moment (in vain) when they will be the dominators.

In other words, social behaviour is locked in by a consensus mechanism that became immutable.  You can always try to fork off, you will get a 51% attack on your nose.

So all this is in perfect agreement with human nature.
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May 14, 2017, 07:56:25 AM
 #30

In other words, social behaviour is locked in by a consensus mechanism that became immutable. You can always try to fork off, you will get a 51% attack on your nose.

I will find the post (in the “Bitcoin killer” thread) where I explained how to attain a Nash equilibrium without proof-of-work by leveraging the crab bucket mentality of human nature! (well that might be construed as ban evasion so you will have to go find it)

The end of the fungible, economies-of-scale, tangible winner-take-all, tragedy-of-the-commons age and the ushering in of the Inverse Commons knowledge age changes the paradigm:

A reminder to moderators, @dinofelis and I are continuing this discussion because it pertains to the ban and the fact that BCT does not allow formation of groups.



I'm not saying that a decentralized system cannot implement dynamics that naturally evolve towards forms of leadership, but I consider then that they centralize ; unless they also contain dynamical rules that destroy these leaders, so that leadership is an ephemeral phenomenon.

You are concerned that any system which can centralize will grow ever more centralized.

Actually that is an incorrect fear about the way nature is. That happens in fungible finance because fungible finance is a winner-take-all paradigm:

Edit: we are having a discussion over at slack and Craig Wright (@csw) the self-proclaimed Satoshi Nakamoto is participating. I am posting there as @anonymint:

https://pastebin.com/S6quvGMk

tula [3:05 AM]
@anonymint ok thx.. so it was as i thought ..you assume unregulated blocksize leads to 100% centralization ..because bigger pools have an advantage over smaller pools (no shit)
thus "proving" that bitcoin does not work (is a ponzi scheme) and we need a central bank.
also mathematically proving that generally free market capitalism does not work and thus the only system that works is communism (this should give you a hint where i think you made a mistake) (edited)

anonymint [9:59 AM]
@tula correct fungible finance is always a winner-take-all paradigm. Marxism rose up (as promoted by the shadow elite to give us a way to deceive ourselves and keep  us preoccupied) as a false antithesis because it is also a loser-take-all paradigm. Neither of these are the solution. But I have good news for you. Both of those paradigms are dying and I know the solution. The death of fungible money is underway and the rise of Inverse Commons in the knowledge age is coming (see links below for more details). My project is all about this. This is why @dinofelis says I have a confirmation bias on my conspiracy theories, yet my math and logic is cogent.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1837136.msg18526830#msg18526830
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1837136.msg18505797#msg18505797

But humans actually refuse to remain in groups larger than their Dunbar limit. They can only be enticed to do so by massive debt-based bribes of socialism, but this is not sustainable.

Quote
The masses want hierarchy, bosses and central authority.

Nope they will kill each other if locked into a single grouping and they can not fork off into tribes. That is why the future of the EU is going to be so horrific because the EU refuses to allow the different groups to have their own governance.

I'm not talking about a SINGLE grouping, but *every* form of sustained grouping.  Tribal groupings are also, as I said, centralized from the point of view of a tribe member.  Whether you have to obey to your tribe leader, or you have to obey to the king of the world, doesn't really matter from the point of view of a member.

Users will have the freedom to join different groups and even create their own groups, as they do on Twitter.

P.S. more links on why EU is going to have a hard crash landing:

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/taxes/hunting-tourists-in-europe-for-fines/
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/politics/french-elections-a-sell-signal-long-term-for-the-eu-regardless-of-who-wins/
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/europes-current-economy/poland-the-next-crisis-for-the-eu-independent-sovereignty-is-the-issue/



I view you as a pessimist curmudgeon. You dislike humanity and wish they’d all be culled (except as you said some of your friends which means you are tribal). But humanity is actually fantastically creative.

I still am inspired by humanity. Of course I would like to be able to filter the trolls from my group, but I would not want to ban them from the view of others who wish to see their posts.



Quote from: anonymous
Quote from: the_end_is_near
Quote from: anonymous
Not yet, had to deal with gov't today. Very unpleasant.

I remember some of the inane interactions with the IRS in 2002. Since I have not dealt with that for many years, perhaps I do not quite understand your extreme motivation to relocate to a more sane governance. Your tax and business jurisdiction does not need to be the same as your residence jurisdictions.

If you're familiar with Tolkien's Lord of the Rings, the orcs had essentially a purely competitive and ruthless capitalist social structure. Promotions were obtained by destroying those above you, resulting in a crab-in-bucket situation where only the strongest and most destructive survived at the top and any below were abused. So the incentive to rise was imperative; that to me is hell

Very much like government and politics, and that seems to have creeped into the corporate world to a large extent

The winner-take-all power vacuum of fungible finance, usury, and the tangible (economies-of-scale) industrial and agricultural ages enables that paradigm. The Inverse Commons will break us out of this.
the_end_is_near
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May 14, 2017, 08:24:59 AM
 #31

Perhaps I'm really old school, but I don't get why people use the @ symbol here.  Is that a Twitter thing?  I honestly don't know what it means.

It is an ad hoc convention to tag that a term is a username as opposed to alternative meanings of the term in prose. Also some systems (e.g. Steemit, Github, and Stackexchange) will automatically link the username to their profile if prepended with @. For example, some usernames are English words.

This is just a frigging forum, and it's just a silly, broken trust system on that forum.  I don't view it as anything even close to a crisis, and it doesn't keep me awake at night.  If nothing changed, I'm totally OK with that--and look at all those red trusts fuckers left me.  I'm so past it.

I would agree with you, except that red text plastered on every post in Altcoin Discussion on the person who was abused (for readers using the default trust list which is virtually all the new users that altcoins target). IMO that is a crisis for those afflicted.

Other than that, this is just a chat forum with a feedback system that allows anyone to neg anyone else, and overall it should be a very small part of anyone's life and shouldn't be a cause for ear-smoking.  Kiklo went off the deep end, just like mixan did.  I'm not surprised he got banned.

This is an official forum for Bitcoin (and thus for the crypto ecosystem including altcoins, with 46% of the marketcap in altcoins and increasing rapidly) and there are $millions (soon $100s of millions and then $billions) at stake here and for altcoin developers to be slandered/banned on a whim is a serious crisis from our perspective.

I am sorry but this clusterfuck is not going to stand very much longer. There are many forces that need a decentralized, trustless, permissionless system for communication with this $billion (soon $trillion) market.

This is a big deal.

Essentially BCT is cutting off his own future by not adapting.

Edit: some weeks ago @micreanity mentioned that many investors from outside our crypto-currency ecosystem were approaching him asking about Bitcoin. Then we see lately that $billionaires are investing in Bitcoin and even altcoins (see Tezos). And this week Martin Armstrong who had been very pessimistic about Bitcoin, suddenly recognizes that it could be the alternative global currency after the coming collapse and monetary reset due to the sovereign debt crisis and dollar short vortex with even central banks buying USD-denominated equities.

Armstrong is now starting to understand some of my thesis about the future of Bitcoin:

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/rule-of-law/bitcoin-criminals-authorities/

But he does not seem to understand that Bitcoin was designed to push the masses off chain into regulated scenarios (e.g. Lightning Networks on
Litecoin) by rapidly rising transaction fees (see links below for the math), because the technologically the blockchain can not be regulated by any non-global government (Armstrong is still apparently ignorant of the most important technological facts about blockchains):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1887077.msg18859434#msg18859434
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1887077.msg18878987#msg18878987
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1887077.msg18888361#msg18888361
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1887077.msg18903670#msg18903670

The regulation of Bitcoin comes when the world government takes form and the few elite on the hills in Jerusalem want to enslave the $billionaires. Bitcoin is very much part of the 666 plan and outcome coming, but it comes in stages.



You dont need to use the default trust.
You can make your own trust list.
Majority of people here are just to lazy to do it.

I do this myself, great idea to do so.

I never bothered to do it because I do not use the trust system.

The red and green text on avatars caused me to realize there is some corruption in this forum because most users see the same as what I see, because we all do not give a shit about the trust system. We came here for the forum discussion.

I hate kissing ass to centralized authorities. No way. Never will be.

Uhm lauda doesnt rule over anyone.
You people just give way too much credit to the trust system.

Effectively (aka pleonasmically de facto) he does, because of the red text plastered on the avatar for every reader using the default trust list, which is virtually all readers.

And that includes anyone else on the default trust list who is gains pleasure from dictatorial actions.



@The End is Near, has been the only other one with a will strong enough to argue with the peer pressure exerted against @kiko because of a defective trust system ,
and many of you attacked in force after @kiklo was banned and no longer able to be here to defend himself, (what does that say about you?)

Because I do not need those (non-)“peers” in order to succeed. And also when I know I am the correct side of the future outcome, then I am not concerned about losing. Humans herd together in what they (mis-)perceive to be the dominant paradigm, because they do not want to be losers (yet the majority is eventually always wrong).

P.S. your explanations were touching on points that I did not make or did not explain as well as you did. Thanks. And no you are not my sockpuppet!

What is going to be very hilarious is when the scammers learn to game the trust system and turn it into a total clusterfuck.
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May 16, 2017, 03:33:20 AM
 #32

Note the edit.

@dinofelis, you need get grip on reality. Bitcoin and crypto-currency is going to be a $10+ trillion phenomenon. And the EU is going to crash and burn.

The relevance of this to the bans and problems of this forum, is that this forum needs to be able to accommodate the diversity of people coming into crypto. It can’t remain a Millennials’ wet-dream and remain #1 and most relevant on our rapidly expanding ecosystem.

Other than that, this is just a chat forum with a feedback system that allows anyone to neg anyone else, and overall it should be a very small part of anyone's life and shouldn't be a cause for ear-smoking.  Kiklo went off the deep end, just like mixan did.  I'm not surprised he got banned.

This is an official forum for Bitcoin (and thus for the crypto ecosystem including altcoins, with 46% of the marketcap in altcoins and increasing rapidly) and there are $millions (soon $100s of millions and then $billions) at stake here and for altcoin developers to be slandered/banned on a whim is a serious crisis from our perspective.

I am sorry but this clusterfuck is not going to stand very much longer. There are many forces that need a decentralized, trustless, permissionless system for communication with this $billion (soon $trillion) market.

This is a big deal.

Essentially BCT is cutting off his own future by not adapting.

Edit: some weeks ago @micreanity mentioned that many investors from outside our crypto-currency ecosystem were approaching him asking about Bitcoin. Then we see lately that $billionaires are investing in Bitcoin and even altcoins (see Tezos). And this week Martin Armstrong who had been very pessimistic about Bitcoin, suddenly recognizes that it could be the alternative global currency after the coming collapse and monetary reset due to the sovereign debt crisis and dollar short vortex with even central banks buying USD-denominated equities.

Armstrong is now starting to understand some of my thesis about the future of Bitcoin:

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/rule-of-law/bitcoin-criminals-authorities/

But he does not seem to understand that Bitcoin was designed to push the masses off chain into regulated scenarios (e.g. Lightning Networks on
Litecoin) by rapidly rising transaction fees (see links below for the math), because the technologically the blockchain can not be regulated by any non-global government (Armstrong is still apparently ignorant of the most important technological facts about blockchains):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1887077.msg18859434#msg18859434
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1887077.msg18878987#msg18878987
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1887077.msg18888361#msg18888361
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1887077.msg18903670#msg18903670

The regulation of Bitcoin comes when the world government takes form and the few elite on the hills in Jerusalem want to enslave the $billionaires. Bitcoin is very much part of the 666 plan and outcome coming, but it comes in stages.
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May 20, 2017, 03:09:20 PM
 #33

The internet def needs a censor resistant forum. Reddit just went full retard and locked a sub with 400,000+ users of which 20,000 were online at any given time. Its not just the mods here that like to abuse their power.

Frankly, it's embarrassing to have so many developers and computer wizards here and not have things like encrypted messaging or ip masking built into the site, or just basic protections to the users and the intellectual property. The degrees of freedom are lacking and the abuse runs rampant. My use of this site declines everyday, and trying to find informative discussions is becoming harder and harder. It makes me wonder how many have been driven off so this place can become an echo chamber.
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May 21, 2017, 08:51:45 AM
 #34

The internet def needs a censor resistant forum. Reddit just went full retard and locked a sub with 400,000+ users of which 20,000 were online at any given time. Its not just the mods here that like to abuse their power.

Frankly, it's embarrassing to have so many developers and computer wizards here and not have things like encrypted messaging or ip masking built into the site, or just basic protections to the users and the intellectual property. The degrees of freedom are lacking and the abuse runs rampant. My use of this site declines everyday, and trying to find informative discussions is becoming harder and harder. It makes me wonder how many have been driven off so this place can become an echo chamber.

Very true. Our world has gone insane. Another example is Github just allowed me to banned on a very important topic about how Node.js will transition from the old module system (CommonJS) to the new ECMAScript ecosystem-wide standard one.

The gatekeepers there are clearly wrong. They should not create a new JavaScript file extension (breaking many things) just so they can conflate require and import. The new EMCAScript standard module system should not be shoehorned (forced unnaturally) to interopt with the old one. They are forcing very bad design onto a very large ecosystem and I am very confident I will be vindicated in the end.

All centralized databases must die. I intend to kill Github, Reddit, BCT, Facebook, etc.. I am working (as many hours a day as possible) on the foundational technologies. Note that link only updates every few hours so activity so far today does not yet appear (at the time of posting this).

As the sovereign debt collapse worsens in 2018 to 2020, we are going to see massive increase in totalitarianism and people will think that it does not bother them (until it does then it will be too late for them). When you burn the books of free speech, society collapses into a 600 year Dark Age.

P.S. Hahaha. If you think I am blunt...

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=7524

Kudos to elder ESR.

And this is timely and apropos also:

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=7516

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May 22, 2017, 02:26:44 AM
 #35

Quote from: anonymous
About the postings, I understand that you have a hyper-competitive nature and that they may have started with ad hominem. However, there's the old adage: eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind.

It is not true that the most productive action is to mire one's productivity with those who will waste it, thinking that amiability will make for a better result. That is why I wrote to you before that the smart people (the A-listers) do not participate when they see gatekeepers railroading a bad design. Instead they go do productive work, while the clusterfuck destroys itself.

It is somewhat analogous in these groups where they have a Code of Conduct which says they respect all diversity of humans, but then they use their political clout in insidious ways (passive aggressive behavior) to stifle an objective technical debate and also they do not have an open mind and instead want to be in control. The entire CoC thing is really a mechanism for control (as is always centralized governance, which is why I am working on blockchains to replace all centralized databases on the Internet, bcz all those centralized things are going to destroy themselves).

So really the smart thing for me to do was to never participate in that Node.js Issues thread.

Actually I am a man of peace, not of war. Yes I am very competitive, but that is for sports. Work should be a collaboration, but amongst A-lister peers.

Point is if we involve ourselves in failure, we also become a failure. I think this is a very important point that applies to all of at this time wherein the West is collapsing. I think we all need to be very much more aware of the failure we are exposing ourselves to by not wisely choosing who (and which groups, jurisdications, situations) we do and do not involve with. In my case, if I continue to involve myself with failure, then you all would be wise to not involve with me. I am making some changes in my activities.

Remember that democracy exists because what can not be "solved" via voting goes to civil war. So the "solution" is to run up the debt and satiate everyone, until that solution runs out of rope.

Quote from: anonymous
I wasn't suggesting that ongoing participation was necessary, just that patience is needed if you do so - even when encountering hostility.

I need patience to understand the other A-listers are often correct or at least partially correct, as was the case recently with @keean and the closures issue. It was JavaScript's 100% dynamism that was fooling me and made me conflate the function instance with the closure (because that is what JavaScript does). It was some miscommunication between us also. Also I still have the effects of foggy brain not yet always 100% alert or clairvoyant due to these meds and illnesses. Very frustrating!

But no patience with the B-listers, instead never even engage. My huge mistake in life has been engaging with people of all walks of life, because I was idealistic wanting to emulate Jesus also believing that I came from nothing and didn't want to view myself as different or higher than others. So I got frustrated. Now I need to learn that I will not survive if I do not learn that I can not engage with B-listers (nor lunatics!).

There is something in the Bible about not trying to speak to those who will not listen. Do not throw your pearls at swine, etc..

Quote from: anonymous
Disengaging seems to be what you need to adhere to.

Absolutely. That is my biggest weakness. Has always been.


P.S. the discussion continued into being supportive of all humans, not viewing others as beneath you, how to deal with irresponsible people or those who drag you down without being judgmental, about how I am not Jesus and can not bear everyone's suffering on my back in order to be totally understanding and supportive of every person. Then myself shutting down the conversation because I need to go to gym and how my resources are finite and how at this time I am trying extricate myself from the situations that have depleted my resources and no comprehending how I could possibly be supportive to everyone except on some superficial level, and then just throwing out there that maybe that means I didn't delegate to Jesus (claim that he died for our imperfections so that we do not need to be perfect) or something like that, but then it feels like I am losing my rationality and becoming insane so I just shut it down.
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May 22, 2017, 09:50:08 AM
 #36

If you weren't being a retard in the first place, you wouldn't have received that trust. Lauda does what she wants and you can't do shit about it. Also, maybe ever considered stopping spreading bullshit and then ask Lauda to remove her trust. I guess someone as stupid as you never thought of that.

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the_end_is_near
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May 23, 2017, 08:14:46 AM
 #37

If you weren't being a retard in the first place, you wouldn't have received that trust. Lauda does what she wants and you can't do shit about it. Also, maybe ever considered stopping spreading bullshit and then ask Lauda to remove her trust. I guess someone as stupid as you never thought of that.

When we have decentralized forum, then Lauda can do what ever he wants and others can do what ever they want, and they will all have no one to complain to because nobody will be in control.

There is no unequivocal proof for your allegations of retardness, thus what does that say about the retardness of your post? Centralized systems (like tying our shoelaces to each others) make us all retarded.
Farcoin12
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May 23, 2017, 10:36:02 AM
 #38

If you weren't being a retard in the first place, you wouldn't have received that trust. Lauda does what she wants and you can't do shit about it. Also, maybe ever considered stopping spreading bullshit and then ask Lauda to remove her trust. I guess someone as stupid as you never thought of that.

When we have decentralized forum, then Lauda can do what ever he wants and others can do what ever they want, and they will all have no one to complain to because nobody will be in control.

There is no unequivocal proof for your allegations of retardness, thus what does that say about the retardness of your post? Centralized systems (like tying our shoelaces to each others) make us all retarded.
If you actually read the trust rating that lauda gave, you would realise that it wasn't the quality of the posts she was condemning, it was what OP was posting. If you are trolling and have an abusive behaviour, you deserve a negative trust.

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the_end_is_near
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May 23, 2017, 12:06:09 PM
 #39

If you weren't being a retard in the first place, you wouldn't have received that trust. Lauda does what she wants and you can't do shit about it. Also, maybe ever considered stopping spreading bullshit and then ask Lauda to remove her trust. I guess someone as stupid as you never thought of that.

When we have decentralized forum, then Lauda can do what ever he wants and others can do what ever they want, and they will all have no one to complain to because nobody will be in control.

There is no unequivocal proof for your allegations of retardness, thus what does that say about the retardness of your post? Centralized systems (like tying our shoelaces to each others) make us all retarded.

If you actually read the trust rating that lauda gave, you would realise that it wasn't the quality of the posts she was condemning, it was what OP was posting. If you are trolling and have an abusive behaviour, you deserve a negative trust.

If you actually read what I wrote (and the background explanations of why we need a decentralized forum), then you would understand that it isn’t the content of @Lauda’s actions that are relevant to the problem at hand, but rather the fact that he has privileged centralized appointed power due to the default trust list.

By default putting all new forum users into a crab bucket with our shoelaces tied together, creates a crab bucket outcome.

With a decentralized forum, I could careless what @Lauda does. He and zillions of other idiots can off doing as much retarded stuff as they want and it will all be ignored from my areas. @kiklo can also do what ever he wants to do. And nobody can blame any centralized power for abusing their privileged position of authority.

Crab buckets become extreme as society descends into a clusterfuck of political correctness. For example, now if you are not gay, you are discriminating against a gay if you refuse to let him fuck you in your asshole.

(and if you had read my posts, you would understand that I think the activity of @Lauda and the mods is idiotic)
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June 08, 2017, 12:38:30 PM
 #40

The regulation of Bitcoin comes when the world government takes form and the few elite on the hills in Jerusalem want to enslave the $billionaires. Bitcoin is very much part of the 666 plan and outcome coming, but it comes in stages.

I am very sure the $billionaires will readily welcome the enslavement or else they wouldn't be playing along with the shitty scaling drama.

These are the same people that may have no problem sacrificing children for the sake of things that will eventually be lost.

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