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Author Topic: Failure of the system  (Read 559 times)
jjc3326
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May 12, 2017, 02:28:53 PM
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So I'm a "regular joe" user of Bitcoin and I recently sent a mid-size transaction with 120 sat/B which is the default on blockchain.info, and I'm here waiting like 24 hours later with it still unconfirmed.  Every time Bitcoin gets more popular or the price goes up this type of stuff happens.  It just doesn't seem ready for the "big time," when stuff like this happens, I can only imagine most regular people start to lose faith in it (unlike many fanboys here).
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May 12, 2017, 02:32:34 PM
 #2

I agree that it is a very poor user experience.

A friend recently sent some BTC for the first time and was very frustrated when the recommended fee caused him a 6 hour wait for confirmation. This was also with Blockchain.info

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May 12, 2017, 02:37:06 PM
 #3

I know it can be tough for us regular Johns and Janes, I recall being misinformed about Bitcoin from my early readings simply because guidance and literature just hasn't caught up to a rapidly-changing reality.

I'm not chiding you here, believe me, but it's time to take more control of your coins. Use a wallet that lets you set your fees and follow closely the efficient levels suggested by sites like bitcoinfees.21.co or that very helpful tool from mocacinno: http://www.mocacinno.com/page/feechecker.


BTCLovingDude
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May 12, 2017, 02:37:53 PM
 #4

mistake number 1. using blockchain.info
mistake number 2. from your first post from your history you obviously knew about http://bitcoinfees.21.co/ but yet you chose to pay less fee (less than half the suggestion), full aware that it can take a long time to confirm.

when stuff like this happens, I can only imagine most regular people start to lose faith in it (unlike many fanboys here).

then that is a good news for us fanboys here. Cool
regular people leaving > less transaction spam from them > lower fees for the fanboys > hooray.

It just doesn't seem ready for the "big time,"
"Big Time" is already happening whether "regular people" are ready for it or not.
whether they missed the train or not.
whether they chose to be a centralized altcoin fanboy or not.

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Scott J
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May 12, 2017, 02:46:20 PM
 #5

then that is a good news for us fanboys here. Cool
regular people leaving > less transaction spam from them > lower fees for the fanboys > hooray.
So fewer people sending bitcoin transactions is a good thing?

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May 12, 2017, 02:48:19 PM
 #6

then that is a good news for us fanboys here. Cool
regular people leaving > less transaction spam from them > lower fees for the fanboys > hooray.
So fewer people sending bitcoin transactions is a good thing?


when the number of transactions is limited by block, then until a certain point it is, or the fees would rise too much

jjc3326
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May 12, 2017, 02:56:28 PM
 #7

To be clear, I did not know about the site until my transaction was on hold for hours.  I then found it and it said like 1540 minutes max wait.  It now says infinite wait, and this is for what was the apparent "standard" fee as of like 2 days ago.

Regarding blockchain.info, it feels almost like my money was "stolen" in that there is nothing I can do to speed up the transaction - it would all be in blockchain.info's hands.  That leaves me, and the other thousands who use that service, with a very bad taste in our collective mouths.

Your comment that the big time is here is silly.  Sure the price is higher but Bitcoin does not seem to be able to support more widespread usage - that is my point.

To suggest this is "good" for Bitcoin is a stretch.  From what I've seen, the vast majority of fanboys want Bitcoin to become widely used.  I was merely pointing out that this system is not working.  Your suggestion that less users and lower fees is fine if that's all you want but you are in the small minority.  If no one used it, the price would be $100 and I assume you don't want that though.
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May 12, 2017, 02:58:35 PM
 #8

So I'm a "regular joe" user of Bitcoin and I recently sent a mid-size transaction with 120 sat/B which is the default on blockchain.info, and I'm here waiting like 24 hours later with it still unconfirmed.  Every time Bitcoin gets more popular or the price goes up this type of stuff happens.  It just doesn't seem ready for the "big time," when stuff like this happens, I can only imagine most regular people start to lose faith in it (unlike many fanboys here).

Bitcoin will never be ready for mainstream adoption without segwit and lightning network since instant cheap transactions (which is what noobs expect from "revolutionary technology") isn't ever going to happen on-chain.

Blame miners for the lack of segwit.


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BTCLovingDude
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May 12, 2017, 03:02:17 PM
 #9

there is nothing I can do to speed up the transaction
the board you posted your first post, has a sticky topic. go read it, that topic has a lot of good and useful information and come back if you had any specific questions.
hint: ViaBTC

If no one used it, the price would be $100 and I assume you don't want that though.
price has nothing to do with that.
worst case scenario is that bitcoin stops being a currency and continues being only an investment. without being a currency it won't go to $10,000 but it will still continue to rise a lot.

and yeah, regular people getting out is actually better for price, they are mostly weak hands in the market causing the panic sells and making whales richer.

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May 12, 2017, 03:03:16 PM
 #10

Failure of the user.

If you aren't the sole controller of your private keys, you don't have any bitcoins.
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May 12, 2017, 03:03:39 PM
 #11

I think the BTC is a investment now,so regard it as a tool of pay is a mistake.
maybe we should choose another altcoin to as our pay tool

cpfreeplz
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May 12, 2017, 03:04:15 PM
 #12

I agree that it is a very poor user experience.

A friend recently sent some BTC for the first time and was very frustrated when the recommended fee caused him a 6 hour wait for confirmation. This was also with Blockchain.info

You should have helped your friend and explained not to use such a shitty theiving Web wallet. Who cares that his tx took forever, how pissed do you think he's going to be when all of his funds are stolen by them? I can't stand those bastards.














 

 

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Yakamoto
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May 12, 2017, 03:06:33 PM
 #13

So I'm a "regular joe" user of Bitcoin and I recently sent a mid-size transaction with 120 sat/B which is the default on blockchain.info, and I'm here waiting like 24 hours later with it still unconfirmed.  Every time Bitcoin gets more popular or the price goes up this type of stuff happens.  It just doesn't seem ready for the "big time," when stuff like this happens, I can only imagine most regular people start to lose faith in it (unlike many fanboys here).
That's definitely a failure of the system, but there isn't a ton that can be done about it until the block size increases or the transaction volume goes down, and neither of them looks to be possible in the near future unless things change.

A lot of it is traders (or average joes) moving coins from their wallets to exchanges, and they just happen to end up putting in higher fees, which in turn inflates everything. Not a great situation.














 

 

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Qartada
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May 12, 2017, 03:06:38 PM
 #14

mistake number 1. using blockchain.info
Blockchain is a crap wallet, but you can pay whatever fee you like.  It doesn't affect the fees being insanely high.

Quote from: BTCLovingDude
mistake number 2. from your first post from your history you obviously knew about http://bitcoinfees.21.co/ but yet you chose to pay less fee (less than half the suggestion), full aware that it can take a long time to confirm.
Even with just one input, the transaction fee for anything under several hundred dollars worth of Bitcoin is more than Visa and other payment systems.  As it says in the whitepaper:

Quote from: satoshi
The cost of mediation increases transaction costs, limiting the
minimum practical transaction size and cutting off the possibility for small casual transactions

If the cost of transaction fees, which frankly doesn't need to be any more than 0-20 satoshi per byte for many years, is dramatically higher than conventional payment systems, there's no incentive for people who are less aware of the banking system's evils to get involved in Bitcoin.

Quote from: BTCLovingDude
when stuff like this happens, I can only imagine most regular people start to lose faith in it (unlike many fanboys here).

then that is a good news for us fanboys here. Cool
regular people leaving > less transaction spam from them > lower fees for the fanboys > hooray.
The number of regular people will regulate itself.  The fees are too high due to a mix of spam and excessive people, so every time people leave the fees will get lower and more people will join again.

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May 12, 2017, 03:11:04 PM
 #15

Here's the thing, as the price of Bitcoin rises, so does its popularity. Demand makes fees higher and hence use of BTC becomes harder and less accessible. People interested to use bitcoin will learn to use fees properly eventually but BTC sure is not a replacement of regular currency.

Crypto currency is still great for other uses so the above shouldn't be considered a failure.














 

 

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jjc3326
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May 12, 2017, 03:12:11 PM
 #16

Failure of the user.

Or you could argue Bitcoin is too complex for the "user."  

Agreed with posts putting blame on blockchain.info and now I know you can change fee.  I am pissed at blockchian.info though because they do not to my knowledge make clear you can change the fee.
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May 12, 2017, 03:14:54 PM
 #17

mistake number 1. using blockchain.info
Blockchain is a crap wallet, but you can pay whatever fee you like.  It doesn't affect the fees being insanely high.
their fee estimation is bad which makes using that web wallet bad. and not to mention all the negative things about using a web wallet.

also i am not denying the fact that fees are high and block size issue exists. we are all aware of the problems we don't need a brand new account telling us that with this tone while making assumptions that are very wrong about the adoption.

Quote
doesn't need to be any more than 0-20 satoshi per byte for many years,
again fully agree.
but lets come up with a solution not repeat the problem. everybody at this point knows that.

Quote
The number of regular people will regulate itself.  The fees are too high due to a mix of spam and excessive people, so every time people leave the fees will get lower and more people will join again.
the only important thing is that nobody is leaving! and they never will.
many will pretend they leave, wanna leave, left, but in fact they are hoping for a dip to buy in or many are supporting their altcoin which they are bag-holding to make profit from its pump.
this has been the story for the past 6 or 7 years as soon as bitcoin was listed on exchanges.

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____ for Localized Shopping ____
[|FACEBOOK
TWITTER
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ICO  ▶  13th November 2017
GET YOUR 40% BONUS
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May 12, 2017, 03:16:23 PM
 #18

Failure of the user.

Or you could argue Bitcoin is too complex for the "user."  

Bitcoin gives the user complete control over his asset. Complete control requires complete responsibility.

It's the user's responsibility to educate himself on the inner workings of Bitcoin if he wants to have a good user experience.

It's that simple.

If you aren't the sole controller of your private keys, you don't have any bitcoins.
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May 12, 2017, 03:34:47 PM
 #19

So I'm a "regular joe" user of Bitcoin and I recently sent a mid-size transaction with 120 sat/B which is the default on blockchain.info, and I'm here waiting like 24 hours later with it still unconfirmed.  Every time Bitcoin gets more popular or the price goes up this type of stuff happens.  It just doesn't seem ready for the "big time," when stuff like this happens, I can only imagine most regular people start to lose faith in it (unlike many fanboys here).

So I'm a "regular joe" user of automobiles and I recently got into my car and after driving for a few minutes turned on the cruise-control so I could take a nap, and here I am in the hospital after my car crashed into a tree. Everytime someone does something dumb with their car (like drive through a crowd, or go too fast on ice, or follow too closely, or try to drive while intoxicated) this type of stuff happens.  Automobiles just don't seem ready for the "big time", when stuff like this happens, I can only imagine that most regular people start to lose faith in them (unlike many fanboys on those automobile forums).



Most "regular people" understand that you need to take responsibility for your own choices.  If you choose to use a new form of money, and you choose not to take the time to understand how to use it properly, you are going to make mistakes and you are going to suffer the consequences of your own actions.

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May 12, 2017, 03:36:25 PM
 #20

So I'm a "regular joe" user of Bitcoin and I recently sent a mid-size transaction with 120 sat/B which is the default on blockchain.info, and I'm here waiting like 24 hours later with it still unconfirmed.  Every time Bitcoin gets more popular or the price goes up this type of stuff happens.  It just doesn't seem ready for the "big time," when stuff like this happens, I can only imagine most regular people start to lose faith in it (unlike many fanboys here).

regular joe need to send "high size" transaction, or all payments will not get any confirmation.

it's like a competition. you want fast confirmation? pay more, because there are a lot of people reaching this point!
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