Humans vs Evolution

[Moloch]

Let's avoid the religious debate and assume Evolution is real

The prime drivers of evolution are
1) Random gene mutations
2) Survival of the Fittest/Natural Selection

The issue I see is that humans actively fight against natural selection/survival of the fittest...

We have hospitals where we treat down's syndrome, cancer, epilepsy, and all forms of mental and physical retardation

Without intervention, these "bad genes" would die and leave the gene pool... but, we keep these people alive, to pass on "bad genes" to the next generation

I know it sounds callous, etc., but it seems like a stupid idea to fill the gene pool with "bad genes", rather than let nature take it's course and kill off the poor bastards who drew the short straw

If a dog breeder had a dog with an obvious deformity, it would not use the dog for breeding purposes... that would be stupid to contaminate the breed's gene pool

[1713414332]

1713414332

[1713414332]

1713414332

[poptok1]

About dog argument:
Bull Terrier - extensive breeding with strong accent on jaw and teeth "power" caused heavy retardation in breathing department, to a level of lungs underdevelopment.
Bulldog - cant breed on its own due to oversized head, very susceptible to cancer as a result of artificial selection.
German Shepard - used to be slim and agile up to 25kg, now oversized has trouble with joints.
As you can see breeders using "retarded" gene pool more than it is expected. Look for pictures of dogs from 19 century and you will spot the difference at first glance.
About bad genes:
There where few people before that loved the idea of sterilisation for handicapped... we do know how it ended.
In my opinion we as civilised society should be ready to make some sacrifices, some bits you keep and some you loose, no one has the power to dictate who is worthy of procreation.

[TreasureSeeker]

There used to be a dog licence in the UK.

Should be a parenting licence. There are so many nasty yobs, violent criminal or semi-criminal types and plain awful people having kids, often just to get more benefit money that the UK's population is getting worse and worse.  The benefits system effectively pays people to breed.  People with criminal records toward people or property, and violent tendencies should be banned from breeding. or at least fined, but no, off they go having multiple kids who learn their parents violent and nasty ways and multiply the problem.  And all the time extra child benefit money is thrown the way of the irresponsible parents encouraging them to create these problem offspring.

Survival of the least fit.

[Lancusters]

Guys! This is similar to the signs of fascism. Hitler killed the mentally retarded and with cerebral palsy. You want to accept his ideology? He also cultivated a pure Aryan race. Only this attempt on the contrary led to the genetic problems in Germany.

[TreasureSeeker]

I probably joined the wrong thread as I've nothing against the genuine mentally retarded or those with cerebral palsy, in fact many are absolutely lovely people who add a lot of positivity to the world. My main argument is against violent and nasty people.  Hitler himself would come under that heading.

[Fortify]

I'd say evolution may become redundant. The speed the world is changing currently, people might consume all available resources and be unable to survive in the remaining harsh climate. Who knows what then? Maybe only a few are adapted to survive in deep underground tunnels and even become prey?

[BADecker]

Let's avoid the religious debate and assume Evolution is real

The prime drivers of evolution are
1) Random gene mutations
2) Survival of the Fittest/Natural Selection

The issue I see is that humans actively fight against natural selection/survival of the fittest...

We have hospitals where we treat down's syndrome, cancer, epilepsy, and all forms of mental and physical retardation

Without intervention, these "bad genes" would die and leave the gene pool... but, we keep these people alive, to pass on "bad genes" to the next generation

I know it sounds callous, etc., but it seems like a stupid idea to fill the gene pool with "bad genes", rather than let nature take it's course and kill off the poor bastards who drew the short straw

If a dog breeder had a dog with an obvious deformity, it would not use the dog for breeding purposes... that would be stupid to contaminate the breed's gene pool

Let's avoid the religious debate and look at evolution from the standpoint of science.

1. Cause and effect says that there can't be any random, gene mutations or otherwise;
2. Beneficial gene mutation has never been found in nature, even once;
3. Genetic mutation in the lab is man-made mutation - not random;
4. The term "natural selection" contradicts random mutation; "selection" indicates design; "random" indicates no design;
5. Having no mercy on people who are sick, even genetically, is a genetic flaw.

Now, if you add to all this the points that:
A. Probability math proves scientifically that evolution is impossible;
B. Irreducible Complexity leaves a gigantic opening in evolution theory that science cannot fill;
you see that there is no way to scientifically bolster evolution. The only way to have evolution at all is to do it via religion.

[canah17]

Let's avoid the religious debate and assume Evolution is real

The prime drivers of evolution are
1) Random gene mutations
2) Survival of the Fittest/Natural Selection

The issue I see is that humans actively fight against natural selection/survival of the fittest...

We have hospitals where we treat down's syndrome, cancer, epilepsy, and all forms of mental and physical retardation

Without intervention, these "bad genes" would die and leave the gene pool... but, we keep these people alive, to pass on "bad genes" to the next generation

I know it sounds callous, etc., but it seems like a stupid idea to fill the gene pool with "bad genes", rather than let nature take it's course and kill off the poor bastards who drew the short straw

If a dog breeder had a dog with an obvious deformity, it would not use the dog for breeding purposes... that would be stupid to contaminate the breed's gene pool

Well, some of the people now a days are not thinking straight they just burst their minds into some crazy thinking but really they just can't think of a way to have a good idea to that certain problem but to create it even more dangerously but really i think of that bad genes is really dangerous.

[criptix]

Let's avoid the religious debate and assume Evolution is real

The prime drivers of evolution are
1) Random gene mutations
2) Survival of the Fittest/Natural Selection

The issue I see is that humans actively fight against natural selection/survival of the fittest...

We have hospitals where we treat down's syndrome, cancer, epilepsy, and all forms of mental and physical retardation

Without intervention, these "bad genes" would die and leave the gene pool... but, we keep these people alive, to pass on "bad genes" to the next generation

I know it sounds callous, etc., but it seems like a stupid idea to fill the gene pool with "bad genes", rather than let nature take it's course and kill off the poor bastards who drew the short straw

If a dog breeder had a dog with an obvious deformity, it would not use the dog for breeding purposes... that would be stupid to contaminate the breed's gene pool

You are talking about eugenics.

Always remember: There is just one step between genius and madness.

500 years ago we burned the greatest minds on earth alive.

[HOT_HEAD]

I was just about to enlighten you about eugenics, but I see the guy above me was faster.
I am majoring in ecology/biology, so I happen to know a bunch about evolution and I also happen to know a lot about eugenics. What humans are doing to evolution is reversing it up to the point where we nurture those who are incapable of living on their own more than we help out those who are.

The last sentence might seem strange to you, but it is the core of eugenics and I'm a firm believer of it.
Nurture those who can give back to the society and nature. Nurture those who will make the humans better in any way possible.

Nature is fierce and people need to toughen up. People need to stop being so egocentric and think about the human specie as a whole. No one's right to live won't be taken away, but will simply be castrated in order to prevent more weakness coming in to our specie. We're given the power and it's up to us how we use it.

[zend7]

Why assume Evolution is real when this theory has been put down since 1920 in US and in 1950 in EU. The only country which still insists in this theory without arguments is the UK and I can understand them, being Darwin from there. Why don't monkeys become men right now ? Or why don't water turtle become a cat ? Can't you people see the extreme stupidity in this theory ? Of course there are some other 4th world countries which still believe this shit called evolution.

[leademepls]

Let's avoid the religious debate and assume Evolution is real

The prime drivers of evolution are
1) Random gene mutations
2) Survival of the Fittest/Natural Selection

The issue I see is that humans actively fight against natural selection/survival of the fittest...

We have hospitals where we treat down's syndrome, cancer, epilepsy, and all forms of mental and physical retardation

Without intervention, these "bad genes" would die and leave the gene pool... but, we keep these people alive, to pass on "bad genes" to the next generation

I know it sounds callous, etc., but it seems like a stupid idea to fill the gene pool with "bad genes", rather than let nature take it's course and kill off the poor bastards who drew the short straw

If a dog breeder had a dog with an obvious deformity, it would not use the dog for breeding purposes... that would be stupid to contaminate the breed's gene pool

We're talking here about a change in human environment and habitats which are factors that affect evolution. Specimens that are more suited for their surrounding environment are more successful and desired by the opposite species, therefore they procreate and leave heirs and others that are ill suited for the world don't. In our world it's no longer so necessary to be in a perfect physical condition, it's more desired to be successful in life, therefore the new evolution will favor qualities like entrepreneurship, quick and creative thinking and so on which will eventually become more than just personal qualities that people develop during their life cycle. Human brains will become more and more suited to the demands of this kind of world, while human physique will probably begin to deteriorate.

However our political situation means that this can change in literally hours and we can go from a peaceful world where the threat is that you may lose your job, to a world where you're scavenging for food in the irradiated rubble of a town and fighting for survival is the everyday way of life. An outcome like this will instantly erase the previously well suited branch of newly evolved humans and make physical toughness a prime quality once again.

[Xester]

Let's avoid the religious debate and assume Evolution is real

The prime drivers of evolution are
1) Random gene mutations
2) Survival of the Fittest/Natural Selection

The issue I see is that humans actively fight against natural selection/survival of the fittest...

We have hospitals where we treat down's syndrome, cancer, epilepsy, and all forms of mental and physical retardation

Without intervention, these "bad genes" would die and leave the gene pool... but, we keep these people alive, to pass on "bad genes" to the next generation

I know it sounds callous, etc., but it seems like a stupid idea to fill the gene pool with "bad genes", rather than let nature take it's course and kill off the poor bastards who drew the short straw

If a dog breeder had a dog with an obvious deformity, it would not use the dog for breeding purposes... that would be stupid to contaminate the breed's gene pool

I will not argue with the theory of evolution and with the principle of the survival of the fittest. We are existing on this planet because our dna is the result of constant adoption and adjustment to the environment. But lets proceed to the bad genes you are talking off. Its not actually a problem of bad genes but the problem on not exposing the right medicines and exact therapy to cure diseases. For example the sickness called cancer, the cure was already found out long ago but it was not hidden by the medical society and the reason is the multi-billion profit from treating cancer.

[BADecker]

Let's avoid the religious debate and assume Evolution is real

The prime drivers of evolution are
1) Random gene mutations
2) Survival of the Fittest/Natural Selection

The issue I see is that humans actively fight against natural selection/survival of the fittest...

We have hospitals where we treat down's syndrome, cancer, epilepsy, and all forms of mental and physical retardation

Without intervention, these "bad genes" would die and leave the gene pool... but, we keep these people alive, to pass on "bad genes" to the next generation

I know it sounds callous, etc., but it seems like a stupid idea to fill the gene pool with "bad genes", rather than let nature take it's course and kill off the poor bastards who drew the short straw

If a dog breeder had a dog with an obvious deformity, it would not use the dog for breeding purposes... that would be stupid to contaminate the breed's gene pool

I will not argue with the theory of evolution and with the principle of the survival of the fittest. We are existing on this planet because our dna is the result of constant adoption and adjustment to the environment. But lets proceed to the bad genes you are talking off. Its not actually a problem of bad genes but the problem on not exposing the right medicines and exact therapy to cure diseases. For example the sickness called cancer, the cure was already found out long ago but it was not hidden by the medical society and the reason is the multi-billion profit from treating cancer.

Good! Because there is no argument.

All things are a product of cause and effect. This means that everything is programmed. Once we understand the parameters that the Programmer uses to program, we will realize our inherent humbleness, and our dependence on God.

[criptix]

Let's avoid the religious debate and assume Evolution is real

The prime drivers of evolution are
1) Random gene mutations
2) Survival of the Fittest/Natural Selection

The issue I see is that humans actively fight against natural selection/survival of the fittest...

We have hospitals where we treat down's syndrome, cancer, epilepsy, and all forms of mental and physical retardation

Without intervention, these "bad genes" would die and leave the gene pool... but, we keep these people alive, to pass on "bad genes" to the next generation

I know it sounds callous, etc., but it seems like a stupid idea to fill the gene pool with "bad genes", rather than let nature take it's course and kill off the poor bastards who drew the short straw

If a dog breeder had a dog with an obvious deformity, it would not use the dog for breeding purposes... that would be stupid to contaminate the breed's gene pool

I will not argue with the theory of evolution and with the principle of the survival of the fittest. We are existing on this planet because our dna is the result of constant adoption and adjustment to the environment. But lets proceed to the bad genes you are talking off. Its not actually a problem of bad genes but the problem on not exposing the right medicines and exact therapy to cure diseases. For example the sickness called cancer, the cure was already found out long ago but it was not hidden by the medical society and the reason is the multi-billion profit from treating cancer.

Good! Because there is no argument.

All things are a product of cause and effect. This means that everything is programmed. Once we understand the parameters that the Programmer uses to program, we will realize our inherent humbleness, and our dependence on God.

What is the cause of god? A greater god? 

[BADecker]

Let's avoid the religious debate and assume Evolution is real

The prime drivers of evolution are
1) Random gene mutations
2) Survival of the Fittest/Natural Selection

The issue I see is that humans actively fight against natural selection/survival of the fittest...

We have hospitals where we treat down's syndrome, cancer, epilepsy, and all forms of mental and physical retardation

Without intervention, these "bad genes" would die and leave the gene pool... but, we keep these people alive, to pass on "bad genes" to the next generation

I know it sounds callous, etc., but it seems like a stupid idea to fill the gene pool with "bad genes", rather than let nature take it's course and kill off the poor bastards who drew the short straw

If a dog breeder had a dog with an obvious deformity, it would not use the dog for breeding purposes... that would be stupid to contaminate the breed's gene pool

I will not argue with the theory of evolution and with the principle of the survival of the fittest. We are existing on this planet because our dna is the result of constant adoption and adjustment to the environment. But lets proceed to the bad genes you are talking off. Its not actually a problem of bad genes but the problem on not exposing the right medicines and exact therapy to cure diseases. For example the sickness called cancer, the cure was already found out long ago but it was not hidden by the medical society and the reason is the multi-billion profit from treating cancer.

Good! Because there is no argument.

All things are a product of cause and effect. This means that everything is programmed. Once we understand the parameters that the Programmer uses to program, we will realize our inherent humbleness, and our dependence on God.

What is the cause of god? A greater god? 

Cause and effect only apply to things within this universe... that we know of.   

[Gronthaing]

Without intervention, these "bad genes" would die and leave the gene pool... but, we keep these people alive, to pass on "bad genes" to the next generation

I am ok with letting individuals decide this for themselves. Would you prefer society dictates who you can start a family with? For whatever reason is the norm at the time. Whether you agree or not.

Why assume Evolution is real when this theory has been put down since 1920 in US and in 1950 in EU. The only country which still insists in this theory without arguments is the UK and I can understand them, being Darwin from there.

Evolution hasn't been put down in any of those places. It is still the most accepted scientific theory on the subject. Stop making stuff up.

Why don't monkeys become men right now ? Or why don't water turtle become a cat ? Can't you people see the extreme stupidity in this theory ? Of course there are some other 4th world countries which still believe this shit called evolution.

That is not how evolution works. There is no great chain of being that dictates the next step up for monkeys is to become men. Or cats for turtles or whatever. And populations don't all undergo evolution in the same direction at the same time. Environment plays a part. So different animals end up having different niches. Dung beetles aren't going to stop existing because humans showed up for example. We aren't competing for the same resources.

[criptix]

Let's avoid the religious debate and assume Evolution is real

The prime drivers of evolution are
1) Random gene mutations
2) Survival of the Fittest/Natural Selection

The issue I see is that humans actively fight against natural selection/survival of the fittest...

We have hospitals where we treat down's syndrome, cancer, epilepsy, and all forms of mental and physical retardation

Without intervention, these "bad genes" would die and leave the gene pool... but, we keep these people alive, to pass on "bad genes" to the next generation

I know it sounds callous, etc., but it seems like a stupid idea to fill the gene pool with "bad genes", rather than let nature take it's course and kill off the poor bastards who drew the short straw

If a dog breeder had a dog with an obvious deformity, it would not use the dog for breeding purposes... that would be stupid to contaminate the breed's gene pool

I will not argue with the theory of evolution and with the principle of the survival of the fittest. We are existing on this planet because our dna is the result of constant adoption and adjustment to the environment. But lets proceed to the bad genes you are talking off. Its not actually a problem of bad genes but the problem on not exposing the right medicines and exact therapy to cure diseases. For example the sickness called cancer, the cure was already found out long ago but it was not hidden by the medical society and the reason is the multi-billion profit from treating cancer.

Good! Because there is no argument.

All things are a product of cause and effect. This means that everything is programmed. Once we understand the parameters that the Programmer uses to program, we will realize our inherent humbleness, and our dependence on God.

What is the cause of god? A greater god? 

Cause and effect only apply to things within this universe... that we know of.   

If you are going this way it is mute to talk about god. He is outside of our universe anyway so there exist no way to understand him.

[Slow death]

Let's avoid the religious debate and assume Evolution is real

The prime drivers of evolution are
1) Random gene mutations
2) Survival of the Fittest/Natural Selection

The issue I see is that humans actively fight against natural selection/survival of the fittest...

We have hospitals where we treat down's syndrome, cancer, epilepsy, and all forms of mental and physical retardation

Without intervention, these "bad genes" would die and leave the gene pool... but, we keep these people alive, to pass on "bad genes" to the next generation

I know it sounds callous, etc., but it seems like a stupid idea to fill the gene pool with "bad genes", rather than let nature take it's course and kill off the poor bastards who drew the short straw

If a dog breeder had a dog with an obvious deformity, it would not use the dog for breeding purposes... that would be stupid to contaminate the breed's gene pool

I will not argue with the theory of evolution and with the principle of the survival of the fittest. We are existing on this planet because our dna is the result of constant adoption and adjustment to the environment. But lets proceed to the bad genes you are talking off. Its not actually a problem of bad genes but the problem on not exposing the right medicines and exact therapy to cure diseases. For example the sickness called cancer, the cure was already found out long ago but it was not hidden by the medical society and the reason is the multi-billion profit from treating cancer.

Good! Because there is no argument.

All things are a product of cause and effect. This means that everything is programmed. Once we understand the parameters that the Programmer uses to program, we will realize our inherent humbleness, and our dependence on God.

What is the cause of god? A greater god? 

Cause and effect only apply to things within this universe... that we know of.   

You come to talk about the existence of God, where are the photos of God that I asked you to show us?

Let's avoid the religious debate and assume Evolution is real

The prime drivers of evolution are
1) Random gene mutations
2) Survival of the Fittest/Natural Selection

The issue I see is that humans actively fight against natural selection/survival of the fittest...

We have hospitals where we treat down's syndrome, cancer, epilepsy, and all forms of mental and physical retardation

Without intervention, these "bad genes" would die and leave the gene pool... but, we keep these people alive, to pass on "bad genes" to the next generation

I know it sounds callous, etc., but it seems like a stupid idea to fill the gene pool with "bad genes", rather than let nature take it's course and kill off the poor bastards who drew the short straw

If a dog breeder had a dog with an obvious deformity, it would not use the dog for breeding purposes... that would be stupid to contaminate the breed's gene pool

Feelings and laws prevent us from making decisions to kill whoever

[BADecker]

Let's avoid the religious debate and assume Evolution is real

The prime drivers of evolution are
1) Random gene mutations
2) Survival of the Fittest/Natural Selection

The issue I see is that humans actively fight against natural selection/survival of the fittest...

We have hospitals where we treat down's syndrome, cancer, epilepsy, and all forms of mental and physical retardation

Without intervention, these "bad genes" would die and leave the gene pool... but, we keep these people alive, to pass on "bad genes" to the next generation

I know it sounds callous, etc., but it seems like a stupid idea to fill the gene pool with "bad genes", rather than let nature take it's course and kill off the poor bastards who drew the short straw

If a dog breeder had a dog with an obvious deformity, it would not use the dog for breeding purposes... that would be stupid to contaminate the breed's gene pool

I will not argue with the theory of evolution and with the principle of the survival of the fittest. We are existing on this planet because our dna is the result of constant adoption and adjustment to the environment. But lets proceed to the bad genes you are talking off. Its not actually a problem of bad genes but the problem on not exposing the right medicines and exact therapy to cure diseases. For example the sickness called cancer, the cure was already found out long ago but it was not hidden by the medical society and the reason is the multi-billion profit from treating cancer.

Good! Because there is no argument.

All things are a product of cause and effect. This means that everything is programmed. Once we understand the parameters that the Programmer uses to program, we will realize our inherent humbleness, and our dependence on God.

What is the cause of god? A greater god? 

Cause and effect only apply to things within this universe... that we know of.   

You come to talk about the existence of God, where are the photos of God that I asked you to show us?

God is so great that a simple photo of Him would at least drive you stark raving mad... if not destroy you altogether. God is having mercy on you by not granting your request.