Evolution is a hoax

[Przemax]

In this particular segment of posts, we are talking about the fact that science has found that life can't exist. Since evolution has to do with life, evolution can't exist, simply because life can't exist.

Evolution, on the other hand, is a bunch of stories. If there happens to be some solid fact for evolution, we don't know it. All we really have in evolution theory is stories. We have not been able to create it in the lab.

The Miller-Urey experiment, which showed the chemical origin of life occuring spontaneously in the conditions of an early Earth, was conducted in 1952.



So you are only about 70 years out-of-date with your baseless, factless ramblings.

WRONG! Thats simply wrong. Yeah he created some aminoacids but not even half of them to make a simplest of all organism...

That proves exactly the opposite what you claim.

Im amazed people are making those hoaxes viral while they are half-truths at best....

ITS SO SAD...........

be honest for once and check your sources.... It should be criminal to make sucha disinformation on the public....

I have no idea who was Goerge Shaposhnikov - neither do google. That is weak if he had proven the evolution right. He should be very famous. All I can find is some scammy article on wikipedia, but it is like the man had not existed outside of that article.

All I could find is this: No mention from what book, where and what. https://web.archive.org/web/20130908054552/http://rogov.zwz.ru/Macroevolution/epi17.pdf

I can not decipher the cyrlics sadly. Can you?

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[o_e_l_e_o]

WRONG! Thats simply wrong. Yeah he created some aminoacids but not even half of them to make a simplest of all organism...

It actually created 25 different amino acids. All life as we know it uses only 20 amino acids.

Might want to learn the facts before screaming "WRONG".

[Przemax]

WRONG! Thats simply wrong. Yeah he created some aminoacids but not even half of them to make a simplest of all organism...

It actually created 25 different amino acids. All life as we know it uses only 20 amino acids.

Might want to learn the facts before screaming "WRONG".

In time, trace amounts of several of the simplest biologically useful amino acids were formed—mostly glycine and alanine.30 The yield of glycine was a mere 1.05%, of alanine only 0.75% and the next most common amino acid produced amounted to only 0.026% of the total—so small as to be largely insignificant. In Miller’s words, ‘The total yield was small for the energy expended.’31 The side group for glycine is a lone hydrogen and for alanine, a simple methyl (-CH3) group. After hundreds of replications and modifications using techniques similar to those employed in the original Miller-Urey experiments, scientists were able to produce only small amounts of less than half of the 20 amino acids required for life. The rest require much more complex synthesis conditions.

Source: https://answersingenesis.org/origin-of-life/why-the-miller-urey-research-argues-against-abiogenesis/

On wikipedia they claim that some volcanic spark discharge and some other sparks have created the rest amino acids needed. I have no idea about those. And I will read about it.

[o_e_l_e_o]

WRONG! Thats simply wrong. Yeah he created some aminoacids but not even half of them to make a simplest of all organism...

It actually created 25 different amino acids. All life as we know it uses only 20 amino acids.

Might want to learn the facts before screaming "WRONG".

In time, trace amounts of several of the simplest biologically useful amino acids were formed—mostly glycine and alanine.30 The yield of glycine was a mere 1.05%, of alanine only 0.75% and the next most common amino acid produced amounted to only 0.026% of the total—so small as to be largely insignificant. In Miller’s words, ‘The total yield was small for the energy expended.’31 The side group for glycine is a lone hydrogen and for alanine, a simple methyl (-CH3) group. After hundreds of replications and modifications using techniques similar to those employed in the original Miller-Urey experiments, scientists were able to produce only small amounts of less than half of the 20 amino acids required for life. The rest require much more complex synthesis conditions.

Source: https://answersingenesis.org/origin-of-life/why-the-miller-urey-research-argues-against-abiogenesis/

Hahahaha, oh wow. Quoting Answer in Genesis. Argument over. You have lost.

I have no idea who was Goerge Shaposhnikov - neither do google. That is weak if he had proven the evolution right. He should be very famous. All I can find is some scammy article on wikipedia, but it is like the man had not existed outside of that article.

Shaposhnikov published over 50 papers. Your inability to find and read academic papers is not an argument against evolution.

[Przemax]

WRONG! Thats simply wrong. Yeah he created some aminoacids but not even half of them to make a simplest of all organism...

It actually created 25 different amino acids. All life as we know it uses only 20 amino acids.

Might want to learn the facts before screaming "WRONG".

In time, trace amounts of several of the simplest biologically useful amino acids were formed—mostly glycine and alanine.30 The yield of glycine was a mere 1.05%, of alanine only 0.75% and the next most common amino acid produced amounted to only 0.026% of the total—so small as to be largely insignificant. In Miller’s words, ‘The total yield was small for the energy expended.’31 The side group for glycine is a lone hydrogen and for alanine, a simple methyl (-CH3) group. After hundreds of replications and modifications using techniques similar to those employed in the original Miller-Urey experiments, scientists were able to produce only small amounts of less than half of the 20 amino acids required for life. The rest require much more complex synthesis conditions.

Source: https://answersingenesis.org/origin-of-life/why-the-miller-urey-research-argues-against-abiogenesis/

Hahahaha, oh wow. Quoting Answer in Genesis. Argument over. You have lost.

I have no idea who was Goerge Shaposhnikov - neither do google. That is weak if he had proven the evolution right. He should be very famous. All I can find is some scammy article on wikipedia, but it is like the man had not existed outside of that article.

Shaposhnikov published over 50 papers. Your inability to find and read academic papers is not an argument against evolution.

Wikipedia:

https://prnt.sc/ijhm5s

I have made a printsceen out of it.

What are yours sources? I will look them up.

If that extremely famous guy would have any work in english I would have read those... Sadly he is not so significant I guess.

I found about the "volcanic spark"

https://web.archive.org/web/20081017231050/http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/10/old_scientists_never_clean_out.php

They found after so many years a vials and I am suppose to believe that is a science and not vials was placed there to fit the missing amino acids..............

Are you taking people for idiots?

You are such a frauds all of you.................

Why not repeat the experiments and then search your refrigerators?...... How... What.... What is going on with this world?

[o_e_l_e_o]

Wikipedia:

https://prnt.sc/ijhm5s

I have made a printsceen out of it.

What are yours sources? I will look them up.

If that extremely famous guy would have any work in english I would have read those... Sadly he is not so significant I guess.

I found about the "spark"

https://web.archive.org/web/20081017231050/http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/10/old_scientists_never_clean_out.php

They found after so many years a vials and I am suppose to believe that is a science and not vials was placed there to fit the missing amino acids..............

Are you taking people for idiots?

You are such a frauds all of you.................

Shaposhnikov G.Ch. Evolution of some aphid groups in relation to evolution of Rosadeae. Moscow/Leningrad: Akademia Nauk SSSR, 1951.

Shaposhnikov G.Ch. Phylogenetic background of the system of the short tailed aphids (Anuraphidina) with reference to their host plants relationships. Moscow/Leningrad: Akademia Nauk SSSR, 1956.

Shaposhnikov G.Ch. The aphides (Aphidinea) infesting cherry plum and cherry. Entomologicheskoe Obozrenie 43, 1964.

Shaposhnikov G.Ch. Interrelations of living systems and natural selection. Zhurnal Obshchei Biologii 35, 1974.

Shaposhnikov G.Ch. Dynamics of clones, populations and species, and evolution. Zhurnal Obshchei Biologii 39, 1978.

Shaposhnikov G.Ch. Evolution of morphological structures in aphids (Homoptera, Aphidinea) and habits of the recent and Mesozoic representatives of the group. Entomologicheskoe Obozrenie 59, 1980.

Shaposhnikov G.Ch. The main features of the evolution of aphids. In: Evolution and Biosystematics of Aphids. Ossolineum, Wrocław, 1985.


So, let me get this straight. Your arguments against evolution are "A Russian scientist published papers in Russian and not in English", and "I'm going to ignore the results of a widely repeated and confirmed experiment because they don't fit with my narrative".

You have lost the argument. Just stop.

[Przemax]

Wikipedia:

https://prnt.sc/ijhm5s

I have made a printsceen out of it.

What are yours sources? I will look them up.

If that extremely famous guy would have any work in english I would have read those... Sadly he is not so significant I guess.

I found about the "spark"

https://web.archive.org/web/20081017231050/http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/10/old_scientists_never_clean_out.php

They found after so many years a vials and I am suppose to believe that is a science and not vials was placed there to fit the missing amino acids..............

Are you taking people for idiots?

You are such a frauds all of you.................

Shaposhnikov G.Ch. Evolution of some aphid groups in relation to evolution of Rosadeae. Moscow/Leningrad: Akademia Nauk SSSR, 1951.

Shaposhnikov G.Ch. Phylogenetic background of the system of the short tailed aphids (Anuraphidina) with reference to their host plants relationships. Moscow/Leningrad: Akademia Nauk SSSR, 1956.

Shaposhnikov G.Ch. The aphides (Aphidinea) infesting cherry plum and cherry. Entomologicheskoe Obozrenie 43, 1964.

Shaposhnikov G.Ch. Interrelations of living systems and natural selection. Zhurnal Obshchei Biologii 35, 1974.

Shaposhnikov G.Ch. Dynamics of clones, populations and species, and evolution. Zhurnal Obshchei Biologii 39, 1978.

Shaposhnikov G.Ch. Evolution of morphological structures in aphids (Homoptera, Aphidinea) and habits of the recent and Mesozoic representatives of the group. Entomologicheskoe Obozrenie 59, 1980.

Shaposhnikov G.Ch. The main features of the evolution of aphids. In: Evolution and Biosystematics of Aphids. Ossolineum, Wrocław, 1985.


So, let me get this straight. Your arguments against evolution are "A Russian scientist published papers in Russian and not in English", and "I'm going to ignore the results of a widely repeated and confirmed experiment because they don't fit with my narrative".

You have lost the argument. Just stop.

No ofcourse not. I was just commenting that your own sources admitt that you the miller experiment had not produce the needed amino acids... Just read them. They claim that a lost grail... ahem vial has been magicly found.

Shaposhnikov I just have never heard in my life before, but the Miller experiment is fairly known to me. Thats all. And I do not talk about something I don't know.

I was just amazed it such a hotshot that noone is talking about in the debate between evolution and creation. That seemed odd to me.

When I asked about the sources I asked about the Miller experiment sources that claims about the finding missing amino acid. I have already founded them when they had found their long lost grail... vial.

[o_e_l_e_o]

No ofcourse not. I was just commenting that your own sources admitt that you the miller experiment had not produce the needed amino acids... Just read them. They claim that a lost grail... ahem vial has been magicly found.

No they didn't. They simply re-analysed the same vials with modern technology and equipment.

Shaposhnikov I just have never heard in my life before, but the Miller experiment is fairly known to me. Thats all. And I do not talk about something I don't know.

I was just amazed it such a hotshot that noone is talking about in the debate between evolution and creation. That seemed odd to me.

That's the issue. He's not a "hotshot". He is one of many, many scientists that have demonstrated evolution in the lab. It is not a big deal whatsoever in the scientific community, because evolution has been proven to be a fact by mountains and mountains of evidence. His work is a drop in the ocean in terms of the evidence for evolution.

[Przemax]

No ofcourse not. I was just commenting that your own sources admitt that you the miller experiment had not produce the needed amino acids... Just read them. They claim that a lost grail... ahem vial has been magicly found.

No they didn't. They simply re-analysed the same vials with modern technology and equipment.

You can not be serious about that.................................. They didn't knew how to find the trace of amino acids?

So just redo the experiments FFS.............

That's the issue. He's not a "hotshot". He is one of many, many scientists that have demonstrated evolution in the lab. It is not a big deal whatsoever in the scientific community, because evolution has been proven to be a fact by mountains and mountains of evidence. His work is a drop in the ocean in terms of the evidence for evolution.

You lack the ability to think don't you?

[o_e_l_e_o]

You can not be serious about that.................................. They didn't knew how to find the trace of amino acids?

So just redo the experiments FFS.............

The experiment has been re-done hundreds of times. They also re-analysed the original vials with modern equipment. The results were the same. More amino acids than are required for life as we know it.

You lack the ability to think don't you?

Says the guy who can't grasp why a Russian scientist, working with a Russian team, in a Russian lab, in Russia, publishing in Russian journals, doesn't write in English.

Where's the facepalm emoji?

[Przemax]

The experiment has been re-done hundreds of times. They also re-analysed the original vials with modern equipment. The results were the same. More amino acids than are required for life as we know it.

The article does not say they re-do the experiment.

You understand how shady that whole issue looks like? You wait until the guy dies, then you find his stuff (ofcourse everyone play fair like evolutionists always did) and you say - hey - his stuff proves our point..........

And nowhere in the article about it says that the experiments was redone... Only you say. Based on your word that experiment was redone....

It all looks criminal to me - you know?

Says the guy who can't grasp why a Russian scientist, working with a Russian team, in a Russian lab, in Russia, publishing in Russian journals, doesn't write in English.

Where's the facepalm emoji?

You know? You had some purpose to give this scientist and not the other. Why this one if he is not known? It makes no sense. Or maybe you wanted it to not make sense. That's why I asked - do you know what are we talking about? Or can't you not only read but think as well.

[Astargath]

You can not be serious about that.................................. They didn't knew how to find the trace of amino acids?

So just redo the experiments FFS.............

The experiment has been re-done hundreds of times. They also re-analysed the original vials with modern equipment. The results were the same. More amino acids than are required for life as we know it.

You lack the ability to think don't you?

Says the guy who can't grasp why a Russian scientist, working with a Russian team, in a Russian lab, in Russia, publishing in Russian journals, doesn't write in English.

Where's the facepalm emoji?

You will never convince these religious extremists of anything, they just wont accept the evidence, ever.

[Przemax]

You can not be serious about that.................................. They didn't knew how to find the trace of amino acids?

So just redo the experiments FFS.............

The experiment has been re-done hundreds of times. They also re-analysed the original vials with modern equipment. The results were the same. More amino acids than are required for life as we know it.

You lack the ability to think don't you?

Says the guy who can't grasp why a Russian scientist, working with a Russian team, in a Russian lab, in Russia, publishing in Russian journals, doesn't write in English.

Where's the facepalm emoji?

You will never convince these religious extremists of anything, they just wont accept the evidence, ever.

What evidence? Of crime scene? Yeah Im convinced.

[o_e_l_e_o]

The article does not say they re-do the experiment.

You understand how shaddy that whole issue looks like? You wait until the guy dies, then you find his stuff (ofcourse everyone play fair like evolutionists always did) and you say - hey - his stuff proves our point..........

And nowhere in the article about it says that the experiments was redone... Only you say. Based on your word that experiment was redone....

It all looks criminal to me - you know?

Oh. My. God. It's like talking to a brick wall. Please at least TRY to educate yourself before posting such utter nonsense.

Firstly, you were the one that linked that article. I'm not basing my arguments on that article, and to claim that I am is a complete strawman.



Here is the paper where they re-analysed his vials with modern equipment:

Parker ET, et al. Primordial synthesis of amines and amino acids in a 1958 Miller H2S-rich spark discharge experiment. Proc Natl Acad Sci USA 108(14), 2011.



Here is just a tiny selection of papers redoing and reproving the Miller-Urey experiment in a variety of ways:

Plankensteiner K, Reiner H, Rode BM. Amino acids on the rampant primordial Earth: Electric discharges and the hot salty ocean. Mol Divers, 2006.

Ruiz-Bermejo M, Menor-Salván C, Osuna-Esteban S, Veintemillas-Verdaguer S. Prebiotic microreactors: A synthesis of purines and dihydroxy compounds in aqueous aerosol. Origins Life Evol Biosph, 2007.

Navarro-González R, Molina MJ, Molina LT. Nitrogen fixation by volcanic lightning in the early Earth. Geophys Res Lett, 1998.

Parker ET, et al. Prebiotic synthesis of methionine and other sulfur-containing organic compounds on the primitive Earth. Origins Life Evol Biosph, 2010.

Heyns HK, Walter W, Meyer E. Model experiments on the formation of organic compounds in the atmosphere of simple gases by electrical discharges. Die Naturwissenschaften, 1957.

Lu H-K, et al. Formation of sulfur-containing amino acids by electric discharge in a reductive atmosphere. Chem Abstracts, 1960.

Sagan C, Khare BN. Long-wavelength ultraviolet photoproduction of amino acids on the primitive Earth. Science, 1971.

Khare BN, Sagan C. Synthesis of cystine in simulated primitive conditions. Nature, 1971.

Van Trump JE, Miller SL. Prebiotic synthesis of methionine. Science, 1972.

You know? You had some purpose to give this scientist and not the other. Why this one if he is not known?

He is the earliest example of which I am aware. There are hundreds of others I could tell you about.



Since I have provided you with literally screeds of evidence, I want you to now provide evidence to back up your claims. All you have done is make nonsense, baseless, factless and outlandish claims, and if you do the same again, this argument is decidedly over. Evidence or nothing.

[Astargath]

You can not be serious about that.................................. They didn't knew how to find the trace of amino acids?

So just redo the experiments FFS.............

The experiment has been re-done hundreds of times. They also re-analysed the original vials with modern equipment. The results were the same. More amino acids than are required for life as we know it.

You lack the ability to think don't you?

Says the guy who can't grasp why a Russian scientist, working with a Russian team, in a Russian lab, in Russia, publishing in Russian journals, doesn't write in English.

Where's the facepalm emoji?

You will never convince these religious extremists of anything, they just wont accept the evidence, ever.

What evidence? Of crime scene? Yeah Im convinced.

Well I hope you never become a lawyer or a judge because everyone would be innocent unless there is video evidence, right?

[Przemax]

Plankensteiner K, Reiner H, Rode BM. Amino acids on the rampant primordial Earth: Electric discharges and the hot salty ocean. Mol Divers, 2006.

Ruiz-Bermejo M, Menor-Salván C, Osuna-Esteban S, Veintemillas-Verdaguer S. Prebiotic microreactors: A synthesis of purines and dihydroxy compounds in aqueous aerosol. Origins Life Evol Biosph, 2007.

2006 and 2007...... ummmm.... Well.... They found the vial in 2008... Shouldnt they repeat the experiment after 2008? None of your papers are after the 2008. You know what is the definition of redoing the experiment don;t you? There are no conclusions just a veeeeeeeeeery brief mention "may have played a significant role in the prebiotic origin of molecular diversity and evolution" That could mean anything. On the internet I could only find the abstract. Can you give me some links to whole of the reaserch and what its about? It is not a redo of Miller experiment.... So do not lie.

Parker ET, et al. Prebiotic synthesis of methionine and other sulfur-containing organic compounds on the primitive Earth. Origins Life Evol Biosph, 2010.

I checked that because its after the 2008. And I have found that:

Experimental Procedures
Identification of Vials and Experimental Description

Read that.... Seriously. The describtion of the experiment means how to re-examine the Miller's vials. It is not a redo of the experiment...

He is the earliest example of which I am aware. There are hundreds of others I could tell you about.

As I am not aware what he found out I have to assume he found that adaptation works. I agree. It works. Anything more? What exactly has he proven. If you had read it - tell me. What have he discovered? Have he made a new specie - and by specie I mean the speciment that is seperated in his ability to breed with the previous speciments.

Since I have provided you with literally screeds of evidence,

L O L...... You are funny. You had gave me some materials with basicly only abstract that could be about anything but not Miller experiments that were before 2008 when I asked you to prove they redone the experiment after 2008....

[o_e_l_e_o]

Have he made a new specie - and by specie I mean the speciment that is seperated in his ability to breed with the previous speciments.

Let's go back to my very first comment in this thread (emphasis added):

Georgy Shaposhnikov evolved a new and reproductively isolated species of aphid by altering their food source in the 1950s.

We are now going in circles. Your inability to read, process or respond to the mountains of evidence I have presented to you, coupled with the fact that you have offered exactly zero evidence of your own, suggests there is no point in continuing this conversation with you. You seem quite happy to be wilfully ignorant.

[Przemax]

Have he made a new specie - and by specie I mean the speciment that is seperated in his ability to breed with the previous speciments.

Let's go back to my very first comment in this thread (emphasis added):

Georgy Shaposhnikov evolved a new and reproductively isolated species of aphid by altering their food source in the 1950s.

We are now going in circles. Your inability to read, process or respond to the mountains of evidence I have presented to you, coupled with the fact that you have offered exactly zero evidence of your own, suggests there is no point in continuing this conversation with you. You seem quite happy to be wilfully ignorant.

Ok thank you. He isolated the specie... I believe you. Let me just inform myself about the matter and contact you again ok?  Just tell me in what paper he had proven that? About the Miller experiments your materials clearly says they have not redo the experiments after 2008. Simple as that. Give me the material about the experiment that have been redone as you claim it was after 2008 or its non-existant.

We are talking about Evolution being a hoax and not Przemax being a hoax mmmk?

Your material from 2006:

For more than 50 years scientists who study prebiotic chemistry have been dealing with chemical evolution as it could have possibly taken place on the primordial Earth. Since we will never know what processes have really taken place around 3.8 to 4 billion years ago we can only come up with plausible reaction pathways that work well in an early Earth scenario as indicated by geochemists. In our work we have investigated the plausibility of one particularly important branch of prebiotic chemistry, the formation of amino acids, by electric discharge in a neutral atmosphere composed of carbon dioxide, nitrogen, and water vapour above liquid water. We have found yields of various amino acids under different temperature conditions, with and without sodium chloride in a simulated primordial lake or ocean within extremely short reaction times compared to the timespan available for prebiotic evolution.

We have found yields of various amino acids

yields of various? 5? 6? 7? How many? In 2006 There was a 5 amino acids found and scientific breakthrough had made it 25 in the year of 2010... Yeah... Magic...

suggests there is no point in continuing this conversation with you.

Why? I want to know the "so obvious" truth. Give me the materials of redone experiments after the 2008 or the results of pre 2008 experiments, and a paper in which the isolation of specie is proven. Just as simple as that.

[o_e_l_e_o]

There was a 5 amino acids found and scientific breakthrough had made it 25 in the year of 2010... Yeah... Magic...

For the third time - the experiment in 1952 found 5 amino acids, the same experiment 50 years later found 25 amino acids because we have better technology than is better at detecting amino acids. I appreciate that may sound like "magic" to you, but I assure you it is not.

About the Miller experiments your materials clearly says they have not redo the experiments after 2008. Simple as that. Give me the material about the experiment that have been redone as you claim it was after 2008 or its non-existant.

Please quote where I said the experiment was re-done after 2008. I said no such thing. You decided that 2008 as an arbitrary cut off, for reasons know only to yourself.



You have completely failed to respond to the mountains of evidence presented, you have completely failed to present a single shred of evidence of your own, and you are now arguing against things I did not even say. Time to admit you have lost.

[Przemax]

There was a 5 amino acids found and scientific breakthrough had made it 25 in the year of 2010... Yeah... Magic...

For the third time - the experiment in 1952 found 5 amino acids, the same experiment 50 years later found 25 amino acids because we have better technology than is better at detecting amino acids. I appreciate that may sound like "magic" to you, but I assure you it is not.

About the Miller experiments your materials clearly says they have not redo the experiments after 2008. Simple as that. Give me the material about the experiment that have been redone as you claim it was after 2008 or its non-existant.

Please quote where I said the experiment was re-done after 2008. I said no such thing. You decided that 2008 as an arbitrary cut off, for reasons know only to yourself.



You have completely failed to respond to the mountains of evidence presented, you have completely failed to present a single shred of evidence of your own, and you are now arguing against things I did not even say. Time to admit you have lost.

Ok I believe you... 50 years later they made 25 amino acids. I have only your words.... I believe your words... Because you are so awesome..... Please. Give me the proof.... FFS. I have read your papers from 2006 and 2007, none of them says about the variety of amino acids produced, so please... If you have more info than from the internet - show me as I can't confirm that what you say.

Please quote where I said the experiment was re-done after 2008. I said no such thing. You decided that 2008 as an arbitrary cut off, for reasons know only to yourself.

Insert Quote
Quote from: Przemax on Today at 01:49:20 PM
You can not be serious about that.................................. They didn't knew how to find the trace of amino acids?

So just redo the experiments FFS.............

"

The experiment has been re-done hundreds of times. They also re-analysed the original vials with modern equipment. The results were the same. More amino acids than are required for life as we know it."

The experiment have been re-done - Your words when I asked why would they not redo the experiments to confirm the found vial results are viable.

Or maybe you believe those evolutionists like they would be the God incarnated themselves? I guess you do believe them unconditionally.....

Its not arbitrary. It is just logic. If they had found out something out of the vial - they were surprised, so they should confirm if its legit. Isn't it?

So... Ok obviously you can't and won't find experiment after 2008 for obvious reasons. In that case if you could show me the results of the most recent experiment from 2006? Because it is not saying the results - of how many amino acids were produced. I know they didnt need to do that because the experiment was not measuring that, but you have said that they redo the experiment - so if they did, they should be focused on the same effects.

You have completely failed to respond to the mountains of evidence presented, you have completely failed to present a single shred of evidence of your own, and you are now arguing against things I did not even say. Time to admit you have lost.

? What are you talking about? You have not proven by no means that 2008 finding is legit, or that 2006 claims what you claim it claims neither other experiments.

And you have failed to show me the paper in which it is proven to isolate the specie. So just do of one of those things.