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Author Topic: Butterfly Jalapeno Asic Device  (Read 6423 times)
InsightSoul
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September 18, 2012, 05:03:29 AM
 #21

Lets hope they come out with these. Make the chacne of 51% attack much less likely if a lot of people have access to asics.
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September 18, 2012, 05:07:44 AM
 #22

Lets hope they come out with these. Make the chacne of 51% attack much less likely if a lot of people have access to asics.

Very good  Grin

A newbie figured it out  Cool

Now to convince the other 20% who doubt it  Cheesy

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September 18, 2012, 06:01:43 AM
 #23

So the jaleps are not only profitable but the solution to stabilizing mining difficulty? Seems contradictory
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September 19, 2012, 07:00:14 PM
 #24

a >50% attack would be extremely likely to backfire horribly in that it's almost impossible to make a profit doing it.  You'd have to change the ownership data on a bunch if bitcoins without hitting a single BTC that's owned by an exchange or their system would instantly shut down.  Then you'd have to sell them within like 15 minutes of stealing them before people notice and start alerting others, causing a massive sell-off.  Then there's only so many buy orders posted on the exchange anyway so that's all that could be stolen.  Then you'd have to initiate a wire transfer to a bank or some other withdrawal function before the exchange caught you.  Typically selling like a million BTC trips safety measures at MTGox that shut everything down instantly.  Then you'd have to have valid fake personal data in place due to the volume and somehow block them from following the wire transfer or stopping it before it executes, which I'm pretty sure they do manually.

So good luck with that Tongue The only reason to do a >50% attack is to destroy BTC so yeah, people want to do that but still.
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September 19, 2012, 09:16:47 PM
 #25

I've got one on pre-order. I'm currently pool mining with several bits of crappy hardware at total of 16Mhash/s Tongue

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September 19, 2012, 09:26:20 PM
 #26

Lets hope they come out with these. Make the chacne of 51% attack much less likely if a lot of people have access to asics.

Oh yeah?

There are 22 confirmed preorders for BFL ASIC Minirigs right now. The total hashpower of these 22 machines alone is more than current total hashrate from everything else currently mining. These things go online, BAM, they instantly control more than half the network.

Now to make it even more interesting: Do you know what code these things are running exactly?  Wink

Make it even more more interesting: BFLs owner is a convicted fraudster.
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Sonny Chris Vleisides, 39, previously of Kansas City, MO was arrested in 2007 and held two years in Italy before he was extradited to the United States. Vleisides was sentenced to 14 months in prison followed by three years supervised release after pleading to one count of mail fraud.

https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/radDocs/PressRoom/nr110114.htm

Now put things together.
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September 19, 2012, 09:30:45 PM
 #27

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The only reason to do a >50% attack is to destroy BTC so yeah, people want to do that but still.
Wich is exactly what banks and governments want....

scrybe
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September 20, 2012, 01:54:11 AM
 #28

I've got one on pre-order. I'm currently pool mining with several bits of crappy hardware at total of 16Mhash/s Tongue

Thanks, it makes my 300Mh/s feel a lot roomier! I'm doing the same thing, but only looking forward to 11.5x performance increase, not the 218x that you will be getting Wink

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September 20, 2012, 10:01:25 AM
 #29

Lets hope they come out with these. Make the chacne of 51% attack much less likely if a lot of people have access to asics.

Oh yeah?

There are 22 confirmed preorders for BFL ASIC Minirigs right now. The total hashpower of these 22 machines alone is more than current total hashrate from everything else currently mining. These things go online, BAM, they instantly control more than half the network.

Now to make it even more interesting: Do you know what code these things are running exactly?  Wink

Make it even more more interesting: BFLs owner is a convicted fraudster.
Quote
Sonny Chris Vleisides, 39, previously of Kansas City, MO was arrested in 2007 and held two years in Italy before he was extradited to the United States. Vleisides was sentenced to 14 months in prison followed by three years supervised release after pleading to one count of mail fraud.

https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/radDocs/PressRoom/nr110114.htm

Now put things together.

You're right - those 22 machines are enough to mount a 51% attack but they're not coming out in isolation - the smaller machines, while having a lower hash rate, will also be providing a fairly significant boost to hashing.

Assuming there's 10x more Singles than minirigs, and 10x more Jalapeno's than singles - include the current hashrate of the network - and the impact of the minirigs is reduced to 41% of the network hash rate.

ofc there's a lot of finger-in-the-air with this and we've made some assumptions along the way - but I feel a majority of the community around bitcoin is for a long-term stable environment.  tbh there's probably more risk to the network from other vectors.


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September 20, 2012, 02:27:13 PM
 #30

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The only reason to do a >50% attack is to destroy BTC so yeah, people want to do that but still.
Wich is exactly what banks and governments want....

Pretty much what I was thinking Tongue

Lets hope they come out with these. Make the chacne of 51% attack much less likely if a lot of people have access to asics.

Oh yeah?

There are 22 confirmed preorders for BFL ASIC Minirigs right now. The total hashpower of these 22 machines alone is more than current total hashrate from everything else currently mining. These things go online, BAM, they instantly control more than half the network.

Now to make it even more interesting: Do you know what code these things are running exactly?  Wink

So in response to all 3 of those posts, here's a quote from BFL:

"Because of the potential for massive disruption that our ASIC units may cause to the mining ecosystem, we are instituting a 1/3 shipping method for our first shipment of products to individuals.  So that no single person or handful of people are able to gain a material advantage over any other, we will ship all our available units at the same time to as many customers as we can.  This means we will likely delay shipping on our first units until we have accumulated enough stock to satisfy a significant portion of our initial orders.  This ensures that as many people as possible who are early adopters are equally and fairly treated when receiving our product. To that end we will be shipping our first orders as such: 1/3 of each product line (Jalapeno, Single SC and Minirig SC) will be shipping to new orders, 1/3 to upgrade orders and the final 1/3 will be shipped to a random selection of orders from the first two categories (both upgrade and new customers) received in the first month of orders (From 23 June 2012 to 22 July 2012)."

and also, for some reason they removed it, but it used to say that they will do their absolute best to ensure that any order suspected of attempting to be used in a >50% attack will not be allowed.  There are at least 7000 pre-orders total, most of which I assume are Jalapenos so that's at least another 24.5k GH/s right there.  That slightly exceeds the rigs so let's say no GPU miners stop (yeah right) and the current network stays at its current 22GH/s, that's somewhat balanced.  Another $1.4 million in minirigs and you can outprocess everyone else Tongue Oh wait, they're carefully controlling who gets those minirigs and not shipping them out to everyone at once Tongue Hurray! lol.  It's not hard to imitate 47 different buyers but then you have to ship them all to a central location after that and then who knows how many more orders are filled or when you're getting your entire orders, etc.  Someone could end up with $2.5 mil invested in trying to destroy BTC.  A government would have a hard time getting that approved even in the FBI's budget.  Goldman Sachs has got money though, lol.  So there's only one thing left to do...

*orders more pre-orders* Cheesy
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September 20, 2012, 02:40:32 PM
 #31

Btw this fraud charge is very concerning!  How sure is anyone that this Sonny person is actually the owner of BFL?  The registration info behind their website is blocked by a 3rd party intermediary privacy service Sad There are no "butterfly labs" on all of google maps.Their listed mailing address is a PO box in Kansas City, Missouri.  This Sonny Chris Vleisides person is "previously of Kansas City, MO" according to that press release.  That's the only link I can find.  Anyone got actual proof?

Btw, I found someone else on the web claiming that "I did a quick search on the Missouri Secretary of State website and I was unable to find any instance of Butterfly Labs or variant of. This leads me to believe that Butterfly Labs Inc may not exist as a recognized business in the state of Missouri.  Furthermore, the patent and trade office seems to indicate that no registered trademarks of “Butterfly Labs” or “Bitforce” are found. I've often read that these are registered trademarks of BFL."

That's concerning for a multi-million dollar chip fabrication plant (they claim).  Since nobody makes chips in the US, especially Missouri, I think they're lying and are just a distributor and the chips are made in Asia.  I think most Intel chip-making plants cot about $40 billion so most small companies can't just pull a chip-making plant out of their ass.

They obviously have shipped working products out to people in the past so they're not some ghost company but this does all seem really odd.

If anyone has received a direct reply from an e-mail to office@butterflylabs.com, look at the email file source and pick out the originating IP address.  It's not always real accurate but it'd be interesting as to whether it's an IP that resides in Missouri or not.  It'd be an awfully long drive to pick up their mail at that PO box if they're in another state but still, lol.

oh and that phone number listed on their site is a mobile number on the Sprint network based in Kansas City, MO. Somehow their fax number is also their same mobile number.  Dunno how they pulled that one off cuz normally you'd just get angry fax-data squealing in your ear if someone sent a fax to a cell phone, lol.  Must be some special Sprint feature that intercepts and digitizes it or something.

Of course, it's trivially easy for certain people to trace a mobile number to its owner.  Just sayin Tongue
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September 20, 2012, 10:33:25 PM
 #32

Also remember BFL is not the only source planning to produce these high hash rate asic's.  For example:

BTC FPGA is planning one:
https://www.btcfpga.com/index.php?route=product/product&manufacturer_id=11&product_id=58

Dont let the page confuse you - it says in stock - but read at the bottom that they are not expecting to ship until late Nov/Early Dec.  And there are a few others.  I think High Hash Rate ASIC's are coming - but probably not as fast as the marketing spin would have us believe - so i think there enough other sources to prevent a 51% attach.

I think the real key here is - it is not as close as you think - if you read between the lines in the posts you can tell, these things have not even completed testing, much less any final fabrication process - so me personally - i am keeping on with what i am doing, and going to make a small investment into ASIC's so i am in the vanguard but not riding point.

Incidentally, to get an idea of BFL ship times, there is a thread in marketplace that people put their order and receipt dates of the BFL Singles:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77796.0

and their order numbers for the asics and sizes - they are keeping a running total of TH/s ordered - not perfect but useful enough:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=89685.0

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October 20, 2012, 08:42:06 AM
 #33

I will not deal with BFL. They have very poor customer service. I'd go for BTCFPGA's bASIC units instead.

Looking forward to the ASIC way of mining.

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