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Author Topic: "A Buck an Address"  (Read 1524 times)
OROBTC
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May 17, 2017, 11:45:12 PM
 #1

...

Average Joe Gold and BTC Guy just went browsing at blockchain.info in a recent block to see what sorts of FEES are being paid.  Almost all of the trx that I checked were in the range of 575 - 850 Satoshis / byte.  Very high!  Even very low amounts being sent had high fees.

It is possible that I am interpreting something incorrectly, if not here is my new Working Rule of Thumb sending BTC:

$1.00 / address (+/- 650 Satoshis for a very simple trx).

$3.00 for a typical transaction is way too much.  Only amounts, barring emergencies, over (say) $100 are worthwhile with fees that high.

"A Buck an Address"

A whole new world.


(Edited for spelling)
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May 18, 2017, 12:58:16 AM
 #2

That about sums it up. I can't believe how cheap it still is to send bitcoin.

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May 18, 2017, 01:16:48 AM
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Its only cheap when based on the circumstances.

Buying a coffee, $1 fee lol
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May 18, 2017, 03:39:17 AM
 #4

Buying a coffee, $1 fee lol
Buying a coffee with an international wire payment clearing system, lol.


KNOW THE DIFFERENCE!

Will pretend to do unverifiable things (while actually eating an enchilada-style burrito) for bitcoins: 1K6d1EviQKX3SVKjPYmJGyWBb1avbmCFM4
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May 18, 2017, 03:47:34 AM
 #5

...

Average Joe Gold and BTC Guy just went browsing at blockchain.info in a recent block to see what sorts of FEES are being paid.  Almost all of the trx that I checked were in the range of 575 - 850 Satoshis / byte.  Very high!  Even very low amounts being sent had high fees.

It is possible that I am interpreting something incorrectly, if not here is my new Working Rule of Thumb sending BTC:

$1.00 / address (+/- 650 Satoshis for a very simple trx).

$3.00 for a typical transaction is way too much.  Only amounts, barring emergencies, over (say) $100 are worthwhile with fees that high.

"A Buck an Address"

A whole new world.


(Edited for spelling)

It has gotten to the point were it's damn near unavoidable, if you actually want to move the funds in a timely manner and have the transaction confirm. I live of my Shift card, a btc debit card, literally. I'm ole school, I don't trust anyone to hold my coins accept me, so I don't send funds to the card until right before I'mabout to spend them. It's a PITA, if you don't send max fees nowadays, a ten minute confirmed transaction may become a 40 minute wait at MCDs, for three confirms Wink

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May 18, 2017, 03:56:28 AM
 #6

Buying a coffee, $1 fee lol
Buying a coffee with an international wire payment clearing system, lol.


KNOW THE DIFFERENCE!

CASH MONEY!

Just because you have a smart reply to over priced transaction fee's by attacking other systems doesn't trump the fact a problem is occurring.
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May 18, 2017, 04:37:15 AM
 #7

Just because you have a smart reply to over priced transaction fee's by attacking other systems doesn't trump the fact a problem is occurring.
I didn't mention other systems. Bitcoin is an international wire payment clearing system, and there is no problem whatsoever if you don't try to pretend it's something else and use it for a task for which it's entirely unsuitable. Bitcoin is not, nor was it ever designed to be, suitable for microtransactions.

Will pretend to do unverifiable things (while actually eating an enchilada-style burrito) for bitcoins: 1K6d1EviQKX3SVKjPYmJGyWBb1avbmCFM4
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May 18, 2017, 05:26:08 AM
 #8

Buying a coffee, $1 fee lol
Buying a coffee with an international wire payment clearing system, lol.


KNOW THE DIFFERENCE!

Yeah lol, bitcoin isn't designed in the first place to buy coffees, especially with now the outrageous miners fees. Even coinbase charges 0.001 BTC per transaction right now and they used to charge zero. And did i mention that Xapo as well started to charge people tx fees? That's the extent of the problem, even big companies cannot afford to pay these fees for their customers now.

I used to say that bitcoin was great for international money transmission.... But now thats just not true, if someone worked overseas and sent just $50 dollars to their family via bitcoin at least 2-3% will be caught up in btc fees and that's a conservative estimate....

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May 18, 2017, 05:54:40 AM
 #9

Just because you have a smart reply to over priced transaction fee's by attacking other systems doesn't trump the fact a problem is occurring.
I didn't mention other systems. Bitcoin is an international wire payment clearing system, and there is no problem whatsoever if you don't try to pretend it's something else and use it for a task for which it's entirely unsuitable. Bitcoin is not, nor was it ever designed to be, suitable for microtransactions.

I disagree. Go read this again --> https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf < Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System >

~ A  purely   peer-to-peer   version   of   electronic   cash   would   allow   online payments  ..............
~ What is needed is an electronic payment system based on cryptographic proof instead of trust, allowing any two willing    parties to transact directly with each other without the need for a trusted third  party.

Yes, this can be used as a alternative to other international wire payment clearing systems, but cash is used by merchants and customers and this is also mentioned in the White paper. ^smile^




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May 18, 2017, 07:52:58 AM
 #10

I disagree. Go read this again --> https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf < Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System >

~ A  purely   peer-to-peer   version   of   electronic   cash   would   allow   online payments  ..............
~ What is needed is an electronic payment system based on cryptographic proof instead of trust, allowing any two willing    parties to transact directly with each other without the need for a trusted third  party.
"Electronic cash" generally means wire transfers and the like. What else can it mean? I suppose if the coherence problem with quantum money is ever solved, it will be possible to teleport physical currency from one location to another, but that's a long ways off.

Yes, this can be used as a alternative to other international wire payment clearing systems, but cash is used by merchants and customers and this is also mentioned in the White paper. ^smile^
Nowhere is it mentioned in the white paper that doing so would be free, or even cheap.

Will pretend to do unverifiable things (while actually eating an enchilada-style burrito) for bitcoins: 1K6d1EviQKX3SVKjPYmJGyWBb1avbmCFM4
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May 18, 2017, 08:02:41 AM
 #11

...

Average Joe Gold and BTC Guy just went browsing at blockchain.info in a recent block to see what sorts of FEES are being paid.  Almost all of the trx that I checked were in the range of 575 - 850 Satoshis / byte.  Very high!  Even very low amounts being sent had high fees.

It is possible that I am interpreting something incorrectly, if not here is my new Working Rule of Thumb sending BTC:

$1.00 / address (+/- 650 Satoshis for a very simple trx).

$3.00 for a typical transaction is way too much.  Only amounts, barring emergencies, over (say) $100 are worthwhile with fees that high.

"A Buck an Address"

A whole new world.


(Edited for spelling)

That is already how the bitcoin network works now. We cant escape the sad reality of the fees being placed on the transactions. Let us also accept the fact that the fees will also help the miners to increase their capacity to process the transactions on the mempool. Look at the mempool right now hundreds of thousands of transactions are pending thus we need again to set higher fees so our transaction can be prioritized.

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May 18, 2017, 08:17:53 AM
 #12

Bitcoin simply has gotten too big to be used for microtransactions at this point. Solutions will come either in the form of some scaling solution or the use of alternative currencies, possibly linked through a service, for smaller payments.

If all goes well for bitcoin, it will stay the currency to trade the altcoins in and giving it value.

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May 18, 2017, 08:19:51 AM
 #13

That about sums it up. I can't believe how cheap it still is to send bitcoin.

If it is $1 today, then it could be $10 next month. We can't ignore the steep rise in the transaction fee. If you consider the rising exchange rates as well, then it is clear that the fee (in fiat terms) has increased by more than 10 times during the last 2 months.

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May 18, 2017, 08:30:36 AM
 #14

Just because you have a smart reply to over priced transaction fee's by attacking other systems doesn't trump the fact a problem is occurring.
I didn't mention other systems. Bitcoin is an international wire payment clearing system, and there is no problem whatsoever if you don't try to pretend it's something else and use it for a task for which it's entirely unsuitable. Bitcoin is not, nor was it ever designed to be, suitable for microtransactions.
Are you sure about that? It would only take 30 minutes to confirm this coffee was paid for and not a possible double spend. I mean the merchant would definitely be willing to wait for this to make that coffee sale due to it needing such a secure method that it's logged for all time on a blockchain.

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May 18, 2017, 08:45:38 AM
 #15

Who started this coffee thing topic anyways? even with 10 minutes confirmation time it is absurd to pay for coffee with bitcoin. until SW+LN get activated hopefully sooner than later we should only do large transactions in amount and use fiat based payment methods for small amounts.

If I had a big mining farm I would've implemented something similar to LN but only if users could trust me to give their coins to me then I would have mined a block containing 10K transactions in it by manipulating the amounts and fees but when I think about it more I see that the best thing would be the whole network doing that not 10K TX but LN+SW. I wish I had a quantum miner to start it up just to activate SW and show a middle finger to little Wu. good thing that fees are not occupying any space in blockchain so if we could include 90% of our balance as miner fee then our TX could have a small size. but miners wouldn't return it would they? one way or another bitcoin needs SW+LN people just have their head under the sands and refuse to see the benefits.


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kingcolex
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May 18, 2017, 02:42:12 PM
 #16

Who started this coffee thing topic anyways? even with 10 minutes confirmation time it is absurd to pay for coffee with bitcoin. until SW+LN get activated hopefully sooner than later we should only do large transactions in amount and use fiat based payment methods for small amounts.

If I had a big mining farm I would've implemented something similar to LN but only if users could trust me to give their coins to me then I would have mined a block containing 10K transactions in it by manipulating the amounts and fees but when I think about it more I see that the best thing would be the whole network doing that not 10K TX but LN+SW. I wish I had a quantum miner to start it up just to activate SW and show a middle finger to little Wu. good thing that fees are not occupying any space in blockchain so if we could include 90% of our balance as miner fee then our TX could have a small size. but miners wouldn't return it would they? one way or another bitcoin needs SW+LN people just have their head under the sands and refuse to see the benefits.
The coffee thing started back when people were clamoring for Bitcoin to be used everywhere as a currency and it was an off chain vs standard Bitcoin. I don't like the idea of offchain but their idea was that small transactions like a cup of coffee didn't need to be on the block chain. Point is that you don't pay for a single coffee with Bitcoin, it doesn't make sense for you or the merchant, if you really wanted to use crypto that's where Dash shines with instant TX. Bitcoin is an investment and large transaction tool not a dust service.

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May 18, 2017, 02:48:25 PM
 #17

This is why the scaling wars need to end and the community needs to compromise. Yes, I know that Bitcoin is cheaper than a wire transfer, but being a wire transfer alternative won’t allow mass adoption. We need a way to do regular, in person transfers without paying a 3$ to have it done in several hours.
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May 18, 2017, 02:54:06 PM
 #18

Buying a coffee, $1 fee lol
Buying a coffee with an international wire payment clearing system, lol.


KNOW THE DIFFERENCE!

And what happens when the fees increase another 100x to 100$ per transaction? Are you guys still going to say its cheap and its how bitcoin is meant to be?

There is no reason it shouldn't be possible for bitcoin to be used for coffee payments and acting like there is no problem is ridiculous because ignoring the problem will only lead to fees becoming ever larger until we start forgetting bitcoin to use the cheaper banks and paypal instead.

Acknowledge the problem instead of shifting what you consider bitcoin to be used for, just 3 years ago it was suggested as the ideal alternative payment system to cards for buying things in store. Now you are just shifting what you consider it to be useful for because you want to justify to yourself everything is fine when clearly there are problems looming.
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May 18, 2017, 02:55:57 PM
 #19

Buying a coffee, $1 fee lol
Buying a coffee with an international wire payment clearing system, lol.


KNOW THE DIFFERENCE!

And what happens when the fees increase another 100x to 100$ per transaction? Are you guys still going to say its cheap and its how bitcoin is meant to be?

There is no reason it shouldn't be possible for bitcoin to be used for coffee payments and acting like there is no problem is ridiculous because ignoring the problem will only lead to fees becoming ever larger until we start forgetting bitcoin to use the cheaper banks and paypal instead.

Acknowledge the problem instead of shifting what you consider bitcoin to be used for, just 3 years ago it was suggested as the ideal alternative payment system to cards for buying things in store. Now you are just shifting what you consider it to be useful for because you want to justify to yourself everything is fine when clearly there are problems looming.
If the fees increased 100x it's because there is demand and full blocks so obviously Bitcoin found a niche may it be multi million dollar transfers. Then yeah $100 is super cheap.

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May 18, 2017, 03:16:07 PM
 #20

Buying a coffee, $1 fee lol
Buying a coffee with an international wire payment clearing system, lol.


KNOW THE DIFFERENCE!

And what happens when the fees increase another 100x to 100$ per transaction? Are you guys still going to say its cheap and its how bitcoin is meant to be?

There is no reason it shouldn't be possible for bitcoin to be used for coffee payments and acting like there is no problem is ridiculous because ignoring the problem will only lead to fees becoming ever larger until we start forgetting bitcoin to use the cheaper banks and paypal instead.

Acknowledge the problem instead of shifting what you consider bitcoin to be used for, just 3 years ago it was suggested as the ideal alternative payment system to cards for buying things in store. Now you are just shifting what you consider it to be useful for because you want to justify to yourself everything is fine when clearly there are problems looming.
If the fees increased 100x it's because there is demand and full blocks so obviously Bitcoin found a niche may it be multi million dollar transfers. Then yeah $100 is super cheap.

Cheap for its purpose but no one now is suggesting they want bitcoins niche to be multimillion dollar transfers, bitcoin was supposed to be a currency to be used by everyone not a currency for the ultra rich. The point is there is no reason why the fees should be this high unless you are wishing for bitcoin to fail.

I guess it comes down to what you are telling me that we have been misled and lied to by both Satoshi Nakamoto and all other subsequent bitcoin proponents from the start that this should be a currency for everyone to be used for all transaction types including your local store purchase.
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