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iamnoobplzhelp (OP)
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May 23, 2017, 08:30:11 PM |
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220v in the U.S. is weird. There are a few different plug styles depending on how many amps it puts out (15,20,30).
I'd like to switch my miners to 220v because it's more efficient, but I can't find any cables. All of my PSUs do up to 240v.
What plug styles are people using? Where are you getting them?
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Za1n
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May 23, 2017, 09:07:38 PM |
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There are a few different styles as you have seen, but for most home outlets I have been using something like these: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-20-Amp-250-Volt-Straight-Blade-Grounding-Plug-Black-White-5466-C/301304708You can also buy the matching receptacle. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-Commercial-Grade-20-Amp-Straight-Blade-Single-Receptacle-with-Side-Wiring-White-1876W-BOX/203492426While they look similar to a 110V 20 amp plug and receptacle, the blades are reversed, with the positions switched so a 110V will not fit a 220V and vise versa. Since you will use only half the amperage when running at 220V then you would at 110V, you can probably run 4 or 5 rigs per 20 amp circuit. An alternative and what I also do, is run a few L6-30R twist lock receptacles to the garage feed off a 30 amp 240V breaker and then plug a PDU into it. This way you can pull up to 24 total amps safely with the entire PDU while further protecting each individual outlet down to a more safe 4-5 amps. The danger with the first method without a PDU is that the circuit would need to pull close to 4800 watts before tripping the breaker, and in the case of only one or two rigs would most likely mean they would be on fire first.... These PDU's and cords are often used in server setups and both the PDU's and server cords can be found on ebay. Here is the first result I could find, simply to illustrate what I am talking about as I do not know or vouch for the seller: http://www.ebay.com/itm/APC-AP7841-Rack-PDU-Metered-Power-Strip-Distribution-Unit-30A-200-208-230-240V-/322503049461?hash=item4b16ae00f5:g:duwAAOSw~AVYqTn2I do have a couple of APCs like the one listed, and they can be individually turned on/off via a web interface as well as they can individually trip if the outlet would overload at a much lower amperage as stated earlier. If you plan to do many rigs this is probably the better way to go. The server cords with the correct ends to fit the PDU also can be found on eBay (again first result I found, no affiliation): http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-foot-IEC-320-NEMA-C13-C14-10A-18AWG-PDU-to-CPU-AC-Power-Cords-/262844530164?hash=item3d32c13df4:g:BsQAAOSwtfhYnCQc |
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iamnoobplzhelp (OP)
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May 23, 2017, 09:46:20 PM |
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Wow, thanks for that information. Will definitely be looking into this.
Any particular reason why those rigs would catch fire in the first place? Do PSUs tend to pull more wattage than they need? Is that just because of a surge?
Speaking of surge, does the PDU do surge protection too? Do I need to do something separate for that?
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iamnoobplzhelp (OP)
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May 23, 2017, 10:34:45 PM |
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Thanks for the additional information. Sounds like a PDU is the way to go.
I am already talking with a licensed electrician. I just want to make sure I'm not going to burn my house down =)
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Bones972
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May 23, 2017, 10:39:22 PM
Last edit: May 23, 2017, 11:36:51 PM by Bones972 |
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Phil I just want to make sure I am following you 100% on this... I was wrong... LOL That's why I asked the question. |
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philipma1957
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May 23, 2017, 10:49:46 PM |
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At bones972 your post will kill people please delete it I will alter my post as I see what has confused you.
HERE IS THE SETUP
A) A 240 volt wall outlet with a 30 amp plug
B) The dell pdu derates to 24 amp for 24/7/365 run time.
C) Two power bars each rate at 12 amps for 24/7/365 run time
D) each power bar can handle 2880 watts of psus.
So any way you add the power for 1 extension bar to stay under 2880 bars is okay i.e. 1 rig at 600 watts 2 rigs at 500 watts a rig at 1100 watts adds to 2700 watts okay.
the dell pdu has 2 switches each one will do 2 plugs.
so one 1 side use 1 of the 2 plugs
on the other side use 1 of the 2 plugs.
half the load on the left on one extension bar.
half the load on the right on the other extension bar.
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iamnoobplzhelp (OP)
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May 23, 2017, 10:59:52 PM |
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Phil
I just want to make sure I am following you 100% on this...
So 1 PDU will handle 3 of the strips above and each strip will handle 3 rigs? So that one PDU can handle 9 rigs total?
No. 24a at 240v = 5,760 watts. Not sure how many watts your rigs run at, but mine run at just shy of 900w at the wall. Should be slightly less with 240v instead of 110v, though. I would think that 5 rigs max per PDU is safe. |
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Za1n
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May 24, 2017, 01:47:34 AM
Last edit: May 24, 2017, 01:58:43 AM by Za1n |
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Yes, as Phil said those 240 Volt 30 Amp PDUs will need to derate to 24 amps maximum when used 24/7. The APC has two banks, or busses internally, each one can safely supply up to 12 amps so you would not need the separate power bars. I do believe Dell also makes a larger unit as the APC with two internal busses if you prefer that brand.
The whole thing you can probably run eight 5-6 GPU rigs off of safely, maybe 6 rigs if you do 7x GPU rigs. I am not sure if the Dell PDU's have monitoring, but the APC has both a web interface and a digital display on the bar itself cycling though bank one amps, bank two amps, and total amps. It can also be configured to trip if one or both banks over-current, or even if an individual outlet on the bar over-currents.
The 30 amp outlet Phil linked is also the same one to use for the 30 amp APC PDU, it is best to run dedicated circuits for the supply power and if possible use metal conduit. In any case, you will need to run at least 10 gauge wire if the run is under 50' from your breaker panel, and maybe down to 8 gauge if much further than that. You will need two conductors connected to the breaker and a dedicated ground wire.
As far as the chance of catching fire, no it is not necessarily higher, but the point I was making is that rigs plugged directly into a 240V high amperage circuit could potential get hot and short but yet not trip the breaker thus leading to a higher potential of fire. It is always best practice to try and keep a lower rated breaker as close to the rigs as possible to help prevent this. By using a quality PDU, most of them will have breakers rated for much lower than the 30 amps than would be required to trip the main panel breaker.
Other benefits of using a PDU include surge suppression, delayed start of each outlet if for say a power loss (I space my starts 5 seconds apart to minimize startup load if that should happen) remote off/on of each outlet, logging of power usage, and can even be configured to send an email or SMS if something happens. Some of the features will depend on the brand/Model of PDU you buy, but many of these units were pulled from data-centers and were probably $800-$1200 when new so are usually pretty capable.
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philipma1957
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May 24, 2017, 01:50:35 AM |
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Phil
I just want to make sure I am following you 100% on this...
So 1 PDU will handle 3 of the strips above and each strip will handle 3 rigs? So that one PDU can handle 9 rigs total?
No. 24a at 240v = 5,760 watts. Not sure how many watts your rigs run at, but mine run at just shy of 900w at the wall. Should be slightly less with 240v instead of 110v, though. I would think that 5 rigs max per PDU is safe. it could do 6. the 24 amps is a derating from 30 amps line. so 900 x 3 = 2700 and 900 x 3 = 2700 that is 5400 which is under the 5760 number which is the derated safety number. my guess is you could do 6 rigs you could do 3 on the one bar and to be safe down clock 1 rig a bit. you could do 3 on the other bar and to be safe down clock 1 rig a bit. if you are 900 at the wall 240 volt will give you 2% so you are 882 each rig. |
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dbc23
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May 24, 2017, 04:15:40 AM |
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I was about to install some new 120v breakers for adding systems, after reading this and given that my panel is in my room with my miners I'm going to forego that and set up with 240v now, this looks equally simple and more efficient.
Brilliant job breaking it out and explaining everything, THANKS!
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philipma1957
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May 24, 2017, 04:20:44 AM |
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I was about to install some new 120v breakers for adding systems, after reading this and given that my panel is in my room with my miners I'm going to forego that and set up with 240v now, this looks equally simple and more efficient.
Brilliant job breaking it out and explaining everything, THANKS!
Be sure the 30 amp circuit from the breaker to the plug is 10 gauge . Be careful it is 240 and it can kill. A 120 circuit 15 amps is 1800 watts A 240 circuit 30 amps is 7200 watts Four times the punch! |
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dbc23
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May 24, 2017, 05:12:37 AM |
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Thanks  Fortunately I've done a fair bit of welding/shop work so I'm no stranger to 240v, and you're absolutely right, that stuff WILL kill. |
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iamnoobplzhelp (OP)
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May 24, 2017, 04:27:13 PM |
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Thanks everyone for the replies. I am talking with the electrician tomorrow, and he does commercial stuff, so hopefully he is no stranger to this. After I get this going, my next challenge will be figuring out how to cool the room. =)
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navydude
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May 24, 2017, 04:31:29 PM |
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Good luck with the cooling. Thats been the hardest part for me. |
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iamnoobplzhelp (OP)
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May 24, 2017, 09:57:39 PM |
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I noticed the outlets that you linked at only 120v. Should I get one that's 240v? |
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iamnoobplzhelp (OP)
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May 24, 2017, 11:04:34 PM |
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The first item you listed has ended, and if you read the description it says input voltage is 120vac. I found this item: http://www.ebay.com/itm/232273303006Which according to specifications, can do up to 240v. Would this item work instead? And no, not trolling. I've never used a PDU before or 240v, so I just want to make sure I get everything correct. |
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QuintLeo
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May 25, 2017, 12:12:18 AM |
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I VERY strongly recommend sticking with the NEC and using NEMA 6 plugs/jacks on any 220V circuit in the USA.
Cords are not hard to find - plenty of sources for NEMA 6-15 or NEMA 6-20 to C-series cords on Amazon, and Newegg has a few.
They DO tend to cost more than the VERY common NEMA 5-15 to C-series cord most power supplies and computers sold in the US are supplied with, due to how uncommonly used they are in comparison.
As I recall, a 6-15P WILL plug into a 6-20R or 6-30R, but a 6-20P won't plug into a 6-15R and a 6-30P won't plug into a 6-15R or a 6-20R due to how the contacts are orientated (an in the case of the 6-30 I believe the contacts are are longer as well).
Most computer power supplies any more are auto-switching for any voltage from around 100 to around 240, but most OTHER items you might plug into a 220 outlet will die badly with a tendancy towards sparky fireworks and sometimes exploding capacitors if they are designed for 110.
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dbc23
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May 25, 2017, 12:51:36 AM |
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You can use 120v rated hardware at 240v if it's wired correctly, BUT it's not up to code. 240v sockets and plugs will be more expensive to install, but probably worth the extra 30-50 dollars than trying to run 120 sockets hot.
The big surprise for me was the existence of that PDU, I've never worked with large scale servers so I wasn't even aware such a thing existed. That's the winner for me. The 240v circuit and line/plug is relatively easy, I was always concerned about the distribution to the power supplies because I would've had to break out 4 sockets with standard plugs running at 240v.
For me that would've been fine, but if ANYONE other than myself ever tried using those without realizing what they were, they'd kill a device at best, and give themselves a smoking hair cut at worst.
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Mister305
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June 09, 2017, 08:14:48 PM |
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Ultimately if your house can only handle let's say 200 amp , you can only setup miners to use that 200 amps not to mention the rest of the house ? Is there a way to squeeze more power? is that what the 220v and pdu for?
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topgeek
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June 09, 2017, 09:35:55 PM |
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thank you everyone for all of the information in this thread - i've been considering this for a while. my garage has a 220 plug like this one already mentioned: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pass-Seymour-locking-receptacle-L6-30R-MADE-IN-U-S-A-30-amp-250V-twist-lock-/390917364485?i've been considering one of the apc pdu's as mentioned. Could someone please clarify that I understand the following correctly: 1) -the plug itself runs on 220 volts from the plug to the panel through its 30amp rated wiring (using both sides in the power panel) - meaning it pulls half the amps for the given load 2) -the pdu plugs into the 220 and then the pdu changes the power to 120 for the plugs in the pdu itself that the computers/devices plug into 3) -the computers are actually running just like normal on 120 - and the pdu changes it to 220 before sending it to the wall and the panel. is this correct? if not, please correct what I am misunderstanding. cheers and thanks! |
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iamnoobplzhelp (OP)
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June 09, 2017, 10:05:37 PM |
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No, the PDU does not convert 220v to 110v.
The PDU should receive 220v and it sends 220v. There is no conversion.
Your PC should be able to receive 208-240v no problem, but check your power supply. There may be a little switch on the back to change from 110v to 220v.
I don't plug my PCs in directly to the PDU. I use a PDU extension and then plug my PCs into that. You have to have specific PC power cables, as the normal ones you use in U.S. will not work. They are linked above.
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iamnoobplzhelp (OP)
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June 09, 2017, 10:20:37 PM |
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Ultimately if your house can only handle let's say 200 amp , you can only setup miners to use that 200 amps not to mention the rest of the house ? Is there a way to squeeze more power? is that what the 220v and pdu for?
Short answer is, if you add up all the circuits in your house, you will most certainly exceed 200amp. I think the rules vary by state, but there is generally a maximum amount that you can go over the 200amps. In terms of pulling more than 200amps? I don't think that's possible. If your circuit is rated at 200 amps, that's what it can provide. Using the 220v just means you have less cables to supply power to your rigs. If you wanted to do it with 110v, you would need twice as many. Plus 110v circuits usually max out at 20amp. After that you need special plugs. Also, 220v is more efficient. This means your PSUs will use less power than if it were on 110v. I think the savings is around 2%. If your PSU is pulling 1200W on 110v, it would be pulling ~1176w on 220v. |
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QuintLeo
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June 09, 2017, 11:40:07 PM |
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There are 2 reasons to use 220V on some power supplies.
1) It is a little more efficient, typically 2% at high load factors on most gold-rated power supplies.
2) It can handle more load.
Most 110 outlets are 15 amp (20 can be found but outside of outlets intended for use on AC units are very uncommon in residential usage and somewhat uncommon in commercial usage).
A 220v 15 amp outlet can handle TWICE the load, while 20 amp outlets are fairly common at 220V and 30 amp are somewhat common (higher-power window A/C units usually use a 15 amp 220v plug, rarely a 20 amp 220 plug for the highest-power ones, most electric driers and some electric ranges are designed to connect to a 30 amp 220V outlet).
You can even find a 50 amp 220v outlet in some cases in a home (those ranges NOT designed to plug into a 30 amp outlet commonly plug into a 50 amp outlet, though sometimes that outlet is on a 30 amp circuit).
Many server-type high end power supplies are specifically rated to handle more load on 220v in than 110v in - the Bitmain APW5 for example is rated to handle 2600 watts on a 220v circuit but only 1300 watts on a 110 circuit.
Most areas in most states incorporate the NEC as part of their building code - which leads to very little variation when it comes to legal requirements for wiring on a nationwide basis.
Building code regulations are NOT generally done at a state level, with a few specific exceptions like California requiring a certain level of earthquake resistance in "new construction" in one of their laws some years back.
They are more commonly done at a county or a city/town level.
It is common for the total of the breakers on all of your branch circuits combined to exceed the maximum current your main breaker can supply - most folks don't push that limit, but folks like us that mine have to watch the TOTAL, not just how much goes on each circuit, as a result of that - and no, you can't SAFELY pull more than the rating of that main breaker as total, as the wiring that supplies the panel is BASED on that max total draw.
While the NEC does not consider such a setup to be a "best practice" it is not specifically outlawed (unless it finally got changed in the most recent version of the NEC and I missed it), though they DO spell out that you are not allowed to put a total load on a panel that exceeds the DESIGN specification for the main breaker and the feed wiring TO that panel, and that for 24/7 operation you need to derate those ratings by 20%.
Using 220v circuits instead of 110 does NOT allow you to somehow magically exceed the rating of the main breaker and it's feed wiring in a safe way.
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nerdralph
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June 10, 2017, 12:00:35 AM |
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I use standard Nema 5-15r outlets wired for 240V. Then I just use standard 3-prong cables that come with PSUs. I have yet to find one without insulation rated for 300V.
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QuintLeo
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June 11, 2017, 06:14:23 AM |
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I use standard Nema 5-15r outlets wired for 240V. Then I just use standard 3-prong cables that come with PSUs. I have yet to find one without insulation rated for 300V.
The issue isn't that the cords can't handle it. The ISSUE is the probability of accidentially plugging a 110V item into a socket that is wired for 220V but using a 110V socket. I have yet to see a NEMA 5 socket or plug that can't handle 220, *BUT* there are a lot of items designed to run from 110V that go *poof* or *boom* or start burning if you accidentally plug them into 220V. Yes, it CAN work - but do it at your own risk, and KNOW that it is a code violation because of that risk. |
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