The End Is Near

[Come-from-Beyond]

Read the pull request. It really isn't that bad.

Road map:
(...)
So IsDust() will be based on what is actually being accepted into blocks, and will adjust appropriately

It doesn't matter if it's bad or good. Core devs are unable to solve scalability issues. PERIOD

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[Jutarul]

One more proof that I was right - WARNING! Bitcoin will soon block small transaction outputs.
As I said core devs failed to solve scalability issues.

It's not a scalability issue - it's a problem with externalized costs. In this case, current miners don't take the future cost of transactions into account when comparing transaction fees - mainly because they don't have a financial incentive to care. And the fix is a soft limit, which means those transaction will still be legal - you just have to find a miner who includes them. If you disagree with that change, get yourself some mining equipment and include them when finding a block. Or bribe a mining pool. It's not a dictatorship you know...

Also, transaction fee policies are a moving target and not really a core critierium for the bitcoin consensus model. There's no hard rule which defines how much transaction fee has to be paid. It's an mechanism to bribe miners...

[Come-from-Beyond]

It's not a scalability issue...

It is.

From https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2577:

Two motivations for this pull:

First, to discourage people from bloating users' wallets and the UTXO set with tiny outputs...

Second, we have no idea what will happen to Bitcoin prices or transaction volume / competition for space in blocks.

[arepo]

It's not a scalability issue...

It is.

From https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2577:

Two motivations for this pull:

First, to discourage people from bloating users' wallets and the UTXO set with tiny outputs...

Second, we have no idea what will happen to Bitcoin prices or transaction volume / competition for space in blocks.

it's a little of both. what Jut was trying to say is that it's not a protocol-inherent, bitcoin-fatal scaleability problem, it's a scaleability problem with the current incentives given the recent activity in the blockchain.

i really don't see the fuss about this change, Gavin is NOT our 'king'. miners and users will settle this democratically, as always.

[huggybear]

such as your prediction:

1.35 billion people won't adopt Bitcoin

http://jingji.cntv.cn/2013/05/03/VIDE1367596319388137.shtml

big lol

And did you not want to destroy all altcoins, in another thread?

How good that bitcointalk has a troll indicator.
Congratulations! you are the first at my ignore list

[Come-from-Beyond]

Congratulations! you the first at my ignore list

Pay attention to my [ignore] button and guess how much I worry about this.

[Come-from-Beyond]

And did you not want to destroy all altcoins, in another thread?

Yes, I did. That was the only way to save Bitcoin. Altcoins separate us. Now I stick to Bytecoin, all the others still should be destroyed.

[w00t]

such as your prediction:

1.35 billion people won't adopt Bitcoin

http://jingji.cntv.cn/2013/05/03/VIDE1367596319388137.shtml

big lol

And did you not want to destroy all altcoins, in another thread?

How good that bitcointalk has a troll indicator.
Congratulations! you are the first at my ignore list

+1 I was wondering if he was a troll or what now I know and he also made it to my ignore list.

[Come-from-Beyond]

For the others who will put me into their ignore lists:

Do it silently plz, I don't really care. I know, this forum is full of sheeple who r unable to see beyond their dogmas.

[Stunna]

There is no current competing currency that could scratch bitcoin. If a company like google came out though and implemented their own currency, exchange etc it could be a wild success.

[Francesco]

There is no current competing currency that could scratch bitcoin. If a company like google came out though and implemented their own currency, exchange etc it could be a wild success.

That's the problem.

Just figure if Apple created its own iCoin: it would sell for 4x the price of Bitcoin from day 1!  

[Jutarul]

It's not a scalability issue...

It is.

it's a little of both.

Transaction volume is finite. Even if you'd be able to do 1 GB blocks, you'd still have to solve the "spamming" problem, which means that you want to discourage someone from hijacking the blockchain for purposes other than the original intent at no charge.
Traditionally a transaction fee has served as a way to prevent this, but the way it is implemented in bitcoin, it suffers from the deficiency of not taking into account ALL costs of a transaction (future+current).

So again - it's not a scalability issue, it's a problem with accounting for the true cost of a transaction. Introducing bigger blocksizes before the underlying problem (transaction fees) is solved, will only augment the devastating effect of the externalized cost of uneconomical outputs.

However - mining is a majority process. As long as there is no hard rule (and a hard rule for transaction fees is NOT trivial), then all you need to do is to include a sufficient bribe for your dust output. Some miners will include it at the expense of the future mining community (I am not advocating this, just stating reality).

[Hawker]

There is no current competing currency that could scratch bitcoin. If a company like google came out though and implemented their own currency, exchange etc it could be a wild success.

That's the problem.

Just figure if Apple created its own iCoin: it would sell for 4x the price of Bitcoin from day 1!  

Yes 0 - from day 1 until they decide that it's not worth the regulatory headache and they kill it.  The fools who follow Apple or Google then lose their shirts. 

Bitcoin is genuinely free.  It can't be killed.  That is one reason it has value.

[arepo]

So again - it's not a scalability issue, it's a problem with accounting for the true cost of a transaction. Introducing bigger blocksizes before the underlying problem (transaction fees) is solved, will only augment the devastating effect of the externalized cost of uneconomical outputs.

exactly, it's a scaleability issue regarding the economic incentives of the protocol. but we are in agreement -- it's not a fatal scaleability issue that is protocol-inherent.

[huggybear]

I know, this forum is full of sheeple who r unable to see beyond their dogmas.

ok, i just couldn't resist to read the reply.
Pls tell me, when did you have your illumination?

[w00t]

I know, this forum is full of sheeple who r unable to see beyond their dogmas.

ok, i just couldn't resist to read the reply.
Pls tell me, when did you have your illumination?

Forget about him and please share your personal troll list here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=196301.msg2041108#msg2041108

[Crypt_Current]

For the others who will put me into their ignore lists:

Do it silently plz, I don't really care. I know, this forum is full of sheeple who r unable to see beyond their dogmas.

I'm actually going to make you the EXCLUSIVE, ONE AND ONLY MEMBER of my own personal ignore list, and I want to do it AS LOUDLY AS POSSIBLE, just because your posts piss me off than a lot of other trolls on this board and asking to ignore you quietly was just one step over the line.

You probably lost a lot of money trading because you thought you were smarter than you actually are.

Tragic, but now immortalized.  You can lessen this tragedy by walking away from the Interwebs and maybe consider working with animals or something.

[solex]

You probably lost a lot of money trading because you thought you were smarter than you actually are.

Touche.

Came-from-Beyond probably loaded up with BTC at 10c and sold it all at $10, feeling very happy for a brief period. But then, shock horror, it keeps going up! So he has been grinding his teeth watching it climb well over $100. Talking it down is the last throw of the dice to get back in at $10.

[Come-from-Beyond]

I'm actually going to make you the EXCLUSIVE, ONE AND ONLY MEMBER of my own personal ignore list, and I want to do it AS LOUDLY AS POSSIBLE, just because your posts piss me off than a lot of other trolls on this board and asking to ignore you quietly was just one step over the line.

Hehe. I just wanted to save space of this thread. But I like the exclusive status, thx.

You probably lost a lot of money trading because you thought you were smarter than you actually are.

Not really a lot, I registered on this forum after I had bought bitcoins. They were $2 those days, so I made a fortune actually.

[Zaih]

Yeh yeh walk it out buddy.

Don't bring your distaste to the speculation forum! Pfft, who does that??